Am I the only one disliking phenethylamines?

[Cyanoide]

First of all, this thread is not meant to diss those who use phens. If you like them, great for you. Each to their own.

However, sometimes it seems like I'm the only psychonaut on the planet who dislikes phenethylamines, with the exception of two; 2C-C and 25C-NBOMe. For me phens feel too synthetic, too technical and too "designed". I have nothing but negative experiences with phens. Especially 2C-I and 2C-E which many love have been horrible, and the DOX's don't score much better, with DOB being especially nasty. It felt truly toxic and I felt like shit for a couple of days after the trip. Also, phens feel very clear-headed, which I guess some may like, but I like a bit of mindfuck when tripping. On some phen trips I've felt like I'm sober but having extremely strong visuals. The feeling has reminded me of being on psychedelic speed (some phens are in fact psychedelic amphetamines). My ego has been boosted instead of softened.

Tryptamines feel more natural, less clear-headed and more spiritual. Trips on tryptamines are IME less predictive and every trip on the same substance is more unique than with phens. Although less clear-headed, they still produce a mental clarity of their own. Generally (there are always exceptions) they are much more gentle on the body than phens, and not as dose-sensitive. They go deeper into the psyche, I mean try to find and equivalent to DMT, 5-MeO-DMT or even DPT in the phenethylamine family. They truly dig into your consciousness in a way that is indescribable, totally immersive and where you have no other choice than to let go.

Now I know tryptamines are chemicals just like phens. Even naturally occurring ones like DMT, mushrooms and 5-MeO-DMT are ultimately chemical. But they don't feel chemical, it's almost like they have a spirit.

With phens I've never felt the feeling of "coming home", where all parts just fall into place when every single cell in your body is filled with what I only can describe as cosmic bliss. Especially mushrooms and 4-AcO-DMT almost always produce this effect in me. It reminds me a lot of meditation, with a strong sense of inner peace. However I wouldn't go so far as to say there is no phen that coudln't produce this effect in me. I haven't tried every single one (has anyone?).

Some say that tryptamines have a "dark" side that phens do not have, and that phens generally are more positive and uplifting. I don't doubt that some may feel so. But I've never felt it, although in a way I can understand what they mean.

My aim is not have a debate about if phens or trypts objectively are better. It is a matter of preference and we should be happy there are so many psychedelic compounds available. Many will certainly not share my sentiments. I have no problem with that.

This is not meant as a rant, I am truly curious if there are any others out there who feel like me, who just don't find any magic in phens? How should I call it...Tryptamine freaks?

 

[Ismene]

Mescaline is a completely different animal to all the 2c's, I've never been too wild on 2c-x tho DOM is very like mescaline. I prefer mushrooms tho.

 

[Cyanoide]

Mescaline is a completely different animal to all the 2c's, I've never been too wild on 2c-x tho DOM is very like mescaline. I prefer mushrooms tho.

Mescaline is indeed a compound I could see myself liking very much, unfortunately it's not the easiest to get your hands on.

 

[TestOfSanity]

2ci is fun, but it is a lighter experience. It's never been a heavy trip to me. 2ce wasn't my cup of tea either. Horrible nausea for 2hours just ruined it for me. I wasn't sold on 2c-x until I tried 2cp. Much different from the others. I've never had nausea from it, and it comes on slow as to ease you into the trip. I've had very deep trips on 2cp, and have experienced some pretty heavy mindfuck at sub 15mg doses. It reminds me of mecaline, but is its own experience.

You can't really compare phens and trypts, it's apples and oranges as it's commonly said. I like mushrooms, and DMT is fun to do every once and awhile, but the 5 methoxy trytamines are toxic feeling to me. 5-meo-dmt was probably one of the worst chemicals i've ever tried. I was sweating buckets, I thought my heart was going to explode, just generally non enjoyable to me. 5-meo-amt was a terrible forced trip feeling, that made my skin crawl. I just wished it would end the whole time.

Do what your comfortable doing. I like to dabble in both, but some only like one or the other. There's nothing wrong with that, it's all a matter of preference.

 

[Cyanoide]

Sure they are different but as both families are psychedelic drugs I think some comparisons can be made.

I too actually have problems with 5-MeO's, the only on I use is 5-MeO-DMT. 5-MeO's give me a horrible bodyload, on 5-MeO-MiPT I vomited for 6 hours straight, the nausea and minor tremors didn't ease at any point during the trip. I have 5-MeO-AMT but I'm not going to touch that stuff, based on everything I've read it's a truly awful compound.

 

[Coolwhip]

No, you aren't the only one, my wife and I have started taking ecstasy once a year as a tradition because she LOVES it, but it has never been my thing and I've yet to find a PEA I really enjoy, the intense body high and euphoria is too distracting, and dancing gets boring. I've gotten to really enjoy mellow highs that don't stop me from being 'normal' so when I dedicate a whole day or 2 to taking a drug I want it to be a truly mystical and prolific experience, so I turn to tryptamines of course. I laugh when rollie pollies make fun of dopeheads for being 'hedonistic' lol.

 

[kingme]

hmm, so you dislike phens, but still like 2c-c... i think this is more of a case of not liking certain chemicals, that just happen to be related...
think about it, what if you had tried more designed tryptamines, im thinking the 5 sub and 4 sub varietis, or the simple tryptamines. im thinking there s a chance you wont be liking some and loving others, would you still say you dislike tryptamines?

but back on point. i too dislike some phens, particularly 2ci, and 2c-t-x are rather harsh, but then, i think its more to do with my particular brain than anything else. i used to intensly dislike 5subbed tryptamines too, until i found thier sweet spot...

 

[Cyanoide]

hmm, so you dislike phens, but still like 2c-c... i think this is more of a case of not liking certain chemicals, that just happen to be related...
think about it, what if you had tried more designed tryptamines, im thinking the 5 sub and 4 sub varietis, or the simple tryptamines. im thinking there s a chance you wont be liking some and loving others, would you still say you dislike tryptamines?

The reason I like 2C-C is actually because it differs so much from the other 2C-X's by being calm and sedating. As I said there's a theoretical possibility I could like another phen, maybe mescaline. But other than maybe mescaline, I really doubt it. Phens are by their nature speedy and it's a feeling I can't stand while tripping. From a family of so many different compounds I've tried, I've found one compound I like (and in fact for the exact reason that it's so different from other 2C-X's), then I think my conclusion is quite solid.

Regarding tryptamines, I don't love all of them. But I like enough tryptamines to say that I like them. I also like beer. But that doesn't mean there are certain beers I don't like.

 

[IamMe90]

The reason I like 2C-C is actually because it differs so much from the other 2C-X's by being calm and sedating. As I said there's a theoretical possibility I could like another phen, maybe mescaline. But other than maybe mescaline, I really doubt it. Phens are by their nature speedy and it's a feeling I can't stand while tripping. From a family of so many different compounds I've tried, I've found one compound I like (and in fact for the exact reason that it's so different from other 2C-X's), then I think my conclusion is quite solid.

Regarding tryptamines, I don't love all of them. But I like enough tryptamines to say that I like them. I also like beer. But that doesn't mean there are certain beers I don't like.

2c-c and nbome compounds haven't been too speedy to me; neither has mescaline. There are some out there that are worth pursuing even if you don't like the speediness, but most of the 2c-x series isn't for you, I agree.

 

[Karcinogenious]

I mean I pretty much agree with this, I have "experimented" with a lot of phens, but DMT and mushrooms are the only psychedelic I want o always have around...I have got so much out of them they have changed my perspective on spirituality completely, they might honestly be responsible for it. Trypamines are like a journey every time, sometimes it's rough but sometimes pure ecstasy but I usually are something amazing out of it. Some phens like 2ci and nbomes have been so visual to me it we nothing else going on, except the body buzz, but not head fuckery...in a way that has always made them seem incomplete, as strong as they may be....I agree tho man, I also feel like there is something spiritual, almost magical, about trptamnes...especially DMT and mushrooms

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

4-sub tryptamines are where it's at!

All the PEAs I have tried have been kind of empty MDMA and MDA are notable exceptions.

 

[PepperSocks]

Some say that tryptamines have a "dark" side that phens do not have, and that phens generally are more positive and uplifting. I don't doubt that some may feel so. But I've never felt it, although in a way I can understand what they mean.

This is my experience. I've gotten way more out of phenethylamines than tryptamines ever gave me. Tryptamines have their place but they're in no way fun to me. Phens seem to open me up more, put a smile on my face; relaxed stimulation you could call it. Tryptamines don't engage that euphoric feeling in me and I feel that euphoria is a requirement for a therapeutic experience.

What tryptamines do is dig, and dig deep. I find phenethylamines do this too but in a more gentle fashion. 2C-T-2 is one of my favorite psychedelics ever and it's a prime example. The bliss I've felt with it is on par with 4-AcO-DMT, LSD, etc. but the way it comes on is much smoother, more accepting. The way it comes on with a bit of a euphoria as opposed to the forced onslaught of say, mushrooms, makes me much less willing to fight it.

 

[Help?!?!]

Only psychonaut to dislike phens? The fuck? I see everyone and their mother disrespect phens pretty consistently. Phens are always "the less natural" or more "grounded" when spoken of by most people(least you didn't do that, came at in in a nice debate spawning way!). To me I always figure people have just forgotten not only important psychedelic rules, like never judging something for its intrinsic value or everything is really just the same at the end of the day but that their all simply psychedelics, nothing more, nothing less. They all have their places, like the pieces of a puzzle. Also you don't dislike phens, you admitted to enjoying 25C and 2C-C so thats a failure and also the thought pool that you haven't tried nearly all the phens that even exist not bothering to mention those that do not exist. Also I would be surprised if you were really going to say to me that the "Find the phen DMT/LSD!" is fair in any way shape or form. I could tell you to go find Opioids "amph" but that wouldn't make to much sense on multiple levels(they work on completely different areas/etc and you would have to question whether I mean find me the opioid that enters DAT territory or just an opioid that has stimulant properties). I just don't get the judgement I suppose, I mean there must be thousands of phens and you can tell me you think you wouldn't like any of them even a bit(even though we already went over this with the 25C).

Lastly I just have to rant about the "chemical" feeling! Am I the only one who really is pretty confused by it? I mean I understand it but a chemical is a chemical so by technicality I would assume it feels chemical in nature as well defeating the entire purpose of the idea in the first place. I'm being a dick using logic to make it look so stupid, but that is always how it felt to me. Either wrapped up in those confused by the natural vs not or those just generally confused. Thinking about it, it just doesn't make any sense. In my mind I figure its always personal preference for the most part(unless the drug produces a feeling that does actually feel artificial but I have never felt this, is it even possible? No one can place a feeling inside of you so you can't have a feeling that didn't exist somewhere naturally inside of you before). Lastly how can you even claim to feel the feeling of artificiality with certain chemicals? Do you claim that it didn't feel as natural as that DMT floating somewhere inside of you...or(this is where the idea kinda of confuses me in actuality, how are you determining that it feel artificial, is it just "some" feeling you have or is it because of something realistic and logical like your mind comparing/contrasting?)? I think its just another human idiocy to flounder around playing with "artificial" things. It must suck to think "Man this doesn't feel natural!" or something so often. I bet my mind doesn't even bother with this just because it already knows it will most likely never contain the answers or maybe its just how I think about things but I can just never remember ever thinking to myself "Man this doesn't feel natural!", I feel like if I did I probably would have been fairly confused as I don't follow the logic really.

I liked that you at least came at it clearly in a way that wasn't a "I hate XXX" post or anything like that and you really seemed to put a large portion of thought into it rather than just taking something, negligible feelings, and bam you hate it.

 

[Kishka]

I like both, but I prefer PEA... I tried 4-Ho-MET and I don't like the bodyload at all (I felt really badly intoxicated with a sense of my body was shutting down.) 2C-E was much nicer on the body than the 4-Ho-MET!

Differents substance for differents strokes

 

[Cyanoide]

Only psychonaut to dislike phens? The fuck? I see everyone and their mother disrespect phens pretty consistently. Phens are always "the less natural" or more "grounded" when spoken of by most people(least you didn't do that, came at in in a nice debate spawning way!). To me I always figure people have just forgotten not only important psychedelic rules, like never judging something for its intrinsic value or everything is really just the same at the end of the day but that their all simply psychedelics, nothing more, nothing less. They all have their places, like the pieces of a puzzle. Also you don't dislike phens, you admitted to enjoying 25C and 2C-C so thats a failure and also the thought pool that you haven't tried nearly all the phens that even exist not bothering to mention those that do not exist. Also I would be surprised if you were really going to say to me that the "Find the phen DMT/LSD!" is fair in any way shape or form. I could tell you to go find Opioids "amph" but that wouldn't make to much sense on multiple levels(they work on completely different areas/etc and you would have to question whether I mean find me the opioid that enters DAT territory or just an opioid that has stimulant properties). I just don't get the judgement I suppose, I mean there must be thousands of phens and you can tell me you think you wouldn't like any of them even a bit(even though we already went over this with the 25C).

Point taken. But again I think the analogy to beer fits here regarding tryptamines. I can say I like beer, but there are always some beers I don't like. With phens it's like cider. I don't like it, but there are some that taste OK. From my point of view I can hence draw conclusions that I like something with some exceptions, and I don't like something with some exceptions. So I can say I dislike phens and like tryptamines. There may be one or two exceptions, but I still think a judgement and generalization can be make. Phens are by their very nature speedy and stimulating, and I mean "real" physical stimulation. I don't know how to put in i words. Tryptamines can be stimulating but in a totally different way. The physical stimulation of phens is one of the reasons I have a hard time believing there would be more phens suitable for my. Well, mescalin could be very nice, but I'd be a happy man if I ever get to try it.

One of the biggest problem with phens for me is that the physical aspect is too pronounced. When I trip, I want to focus more on the mental side. If the physical stimulation dominates over the mental side, it's distracting for me.

Lastly I just have to rant about the "chemical" feeling! Am I the only one who really is pretty confused by it? I mean I understand it but a chemical is a chemical so by technicality I would assume it feels chemical in nature as well defeating the entire purpose of the idea in the first place. I'm being a dick using logic to make it look so stupid, but that is always how it felt to me. Either wrapped up in those confused by the natural vs not or those just generally confused. Thinking about it, it just doesn't make any sense. In my mind I figure its always personal preference for the most part(unless the drug produces a feeling that does actually feel artificial but I have never felt this, is it even possible? No one can place a feeling inside of you so you can't have a feeling that didn't exist somewhere naturally inside of you before). Lastly how can you even claim to feel the feeling of artificiality with certain chemicals? Do you claim that it didn't feel as natural as that DMT floating somewhere inside of you...or(this is where the idea kinda of confuses me in actuality, how are you determining that it feel artificial, is it just "some" feeling you have or is it because of something realistic and logical like your mind comparing/contrasting?)? I think its just another human idiocy to flounder around playing with "artificial" things. It must suck to think "Man this doesn't feel natural!" or something so often. I bet my mind doesn't even bother with this just because it already knows it will most likely never contain the answers or maybe its just how I think about things but I can just never remember ever thinking to myself "Man this doesn't feel natural!", I feel like if I did I probably would have been fairly confused as I don't follow the logic really.

This is a tricky subject for me. I mentioned in my first post that all tryptamines are chemicals, even naturally occurring ones. No disagreement about that.

The feeling of phens is certainly not artificial. With that I mean what you experience during a trip is real (for you, at least), authentic and certainly can be a very powerful, life-changing experience. Only because I haven't experienced it doesn't mean others don't. Also, there are tryptamines that feel alien to me, mainly the 5-MeO's.

But I can't help feeling that tryptamines (in particular 4-subs, DMT and DPT) feel more natural, more human, more intimate and spiritual. They feel more personal, and as PepperSocks say they dig, and dig deep. It's like a relationship with you and the compound. A good example would be 4-AcO-DMT. It feels so pure and clean, like breathing fresh air in the mountains or drinking fresh, pure water from a spring. It feels spiritual. You are connected to the trip in a very intimate and all-encompassing way that is hard to describe. Unfortunately I've never felt it with it phens (not even 2C-C or 25C). I don't get the feeling of being connected to anything on phens, I'm mostly an observer watching (admittedly beautiful) visuals. The only "non-pure" tryptamine compound I can get a feeling of a spiritual connectedness with is LSD (with "non-pure" I refer to LSD being an ergotamine, although usually put in the tryptamine family).

This is my experience. I've gotten way more out of phenethylamines than tryptamines ever gave me. Tryptamines have their place but they're in no way fun to me. Phens seem to open me up more, put a smile on my face; relaxed stimulation you could call it. Tryptamines don't engage that euphoric feeling in me and I feel that euphoria is a requirement for a therapeutic experience.
What tryptamines do is dig, and dig deep. I find phenethylamines do this too but in a more gentle fashion. 2C-T-2 is one of my favorite psychedelics ever and it's a prime example. The bliss I've felt with it is on par with 4-AcO-DMT, LSD, etc. but the way it comes on is much smoother, more accepting. The way it comes on with a bit of a euphoria as opposed to the forced onslaught of say, mushrooms, makes me much less willing to fight it.

Tryptamines are ofte more serious business mentally than phens (phens are for me serious business first and foremost physically) and the mindfuck is often stronger. Some of the tryptamines I like most aren't especially euphoric. Then again I use such compounds for introspective tripping, which is not always enjoyable or euphoric. Phens do seem to produce stronger euphoria, but they don't dig deep enough for me. But speaking of euphoria, my beloved 4-AcO-DMT is very euphoric, IME much more so than the forceful euphoria of e.g. MDMA (again another phen I remembered I dislike). For me nothing feels forceful about tryptamines. Maybe that's why I perceive them as more "natural". DMT and 5-MeO-DMT can feel extremely forceful if you are not willing to let go and be totally immersed in the experience, but once you let go and not try to fight anything or steer anything the feeling of a merciless onslaught is diminished. In a way tryptamines are more demanding mentally, more often engaging you in a dialogue with yourself than phens. Less easy to to have fun on (but I do have fun on them too).
---
I'm still going to give 25I-NBOMe a chance since I have it. I'm going to take without any prejudice and see what it's like.

 

[Cyanoide]

I like both, but I prefer PEA... I tried 4-Ho-MET and I don't like the bodyload at all (I felt really badly intoxicated with a sense of my body was shutting down.) 2C-E was much nicer on the body than the 4-Ho-MET!

Differents substance for differents strokes

4-HO-MET has one of the strongest and most stimulating bodyload of all 4-subs. For me it's more suitable as party stuff than serious tripping. Also, if 4-HO-MET is the only tryptamine you've tried, it doesn't give an especially broad picture of tryptamines. I personally am no fan of 4-HO-MET, because of the bodyload and lack of depth. It's mostly eyecandy with nice and very strong visuals at high doses.

But I'm on no mission here, people have different tastes.

 

[miliefisathand]

MDMA (again another phen I remembered I dislike).

phens, to me always feel rolly poly.
its probably why i like them

but at higher doses, 2ce is very unpredictable. loads of energy but its chaotic energy. OP have you ever had a AAAA 2ce trip? what was the highest dosage of 2ce you consumed?

there were times when i soul literally felt it was going inside out. i met entities and the environment was attacking we with knifes and chains any type of torture device you can imagine. ego loss and vibrations everywhere.
snort a good amount of 2ce and then tell us that its not deep. at times its savage. at times it turns from savage to wonderful, like being bloomed into a human lotus flower. not just forced euphoria but real love homie. multiple lives shooting through my memory and past life recall also happened. you just need to take more. but make sure you have a babysitter that wont ditch you or punch you in the face for being insane.

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

yea, i have pushed 2C-E up to 32mg rectally and I gotta say, I've never experienced anything that I would call "real love, homie."

I manage to enjoy the experience but there's nothing spiritual or loving about it.

I actually have never met a person who has had experiences like that on 2C-E. Sounds nice.

 

[miliefisathand]

it was much more than 32 mg. it was two caps stuffed full.

http://www.drugsandbooze.com/showthread.php?39009-true-terror-in-a-shopping-center

for the record i realize this is a harm reduction forum. DO NOT do what i did. this was in a more irresponsible era of my life. but i do suggest a higher dose nasally. how much higher i really cant say. but snort around 40 mg or more and i can safely say the experience will be soul rending.

 

[Roger&Me]

From a chemical viewpoint, the phenethylamine world is actually far more interesting. The indole skeleton is just plain less amenable to substitution, so you don't get the fantastic breadth and range of activity inherent to the phenethylamines.

The phenethylamine skeleton also gives rise to two three distinct classes of compounds (stimulants, psychedelics, and entactogens), all with vastly different receptor interaction. Its really cool to see how (for example) you can take a stimulant like amphetamine, dimethoxylate the ring in three different ways (2,4; 2,5; and 3,4) and get two stimulants (2,4-DMA; 2,5-DMA) and a hallucinogenic compound (3,4-DMA). You can then take that 3,4-DMA (which is a psychedelic drug, R isomer more active) and constrain the rotation of the methoxy groups to give rise to MDA (an entactogen, S isomer more active). You can play those games all day long with phens and it stays interesting.

Those types of rich pharmacological shenanigans are pretty much absent in the tryptamines - you're short on ring positions that are amenable to substitution, and the types of substituents are pretty limited. You can play around with esters on the 4 or 5 position phenols, and you can mess around with amine substitutions some... but the process yields a lot less pharmacological insight than with the phenethylamines.

That being said, from an aesthetic perspective, I prefer the tryptamines. The experiences tend to be richer and more oriented towards the cosmic and magical, while phenethylamines tend to focus your attention on more mundane matters and generally produce less fireworks on a trip-for-trip basis.