Add years through diet

[HobbyIsBowling]

- It statistically and logically is detrimental to our environment, society, personal health, values of freedom and moral justice.

LMAO. Meat is statistically shown to be detrimental to our environment, society, personal health, "value of freedom" and "moral justice"? Except for personal health, that sentence doesn't make ANY friggin sense. You sound like a typical PETA spokesman. You have a strong passion, but you don't seem to understand that you need facts to back up the things you say, and more importantly, the things you say need to at least make some sense. I'm sorry, but that sentence does not make sense and cannot be defended.

I understand preaching about the ills of eating too much meat because of its effect on cholesterol and all that, but when you start preaching about how fucked up society is for not following your advice, then I feel that deserves a response.

You cross the line from being helpful to trying to implement your agenda when you start huffing and puffing at society for doing something we've ALWAYS done, eat meat. That's the food chain, we have the ability to breed these animals in captivity and then summarily slaughter them. It's really no different than our ancestors hunting in the wilderness. Do you think if our ancestors had the means with which to mass produce animals for slaughter that they would not take advantage of this? Don't be naive, you know they would.

There are way more pressing and disconcerting issues in the world today than where my steak dinner comes from, period.

Now if you'll excuse me, it's time for a midnight snack of grilled chicken followed by a nice big glass of whole milk.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

That's a horrible mindset that people get into. Fluoride is a perfect example.

This has always confused me because I was raised on water with flouride in it. My mother taught us that it was good for us and our teeth. Honestly Im 23 (almost) and Ive never had a cavity in my life. I havent had any other problems with it and I still drink it. I started a thread in Second Opinion awhile back asking if flouride was as toxic as some people say and the overwhelming majority of bluelighters thought I was crazy and said it was fine. So I dont really know what to believe when it comes to flouride.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

LMAO. Meat is statistically shown to be detrimental to our environment, society, personal health, "value of freedom" and "moral justice"? Except for personal health, that sentence doesn't make ANY friggin sense. You sound like a typical PETA spokesman. You have a strong passion, but you don't seem to understand that you need facts to back up the things you say, and more importantly, the things you say need to at least make some sense. I'm sorry, but that sentence does not make sense and cannot be defended.

It absolutely can. Meat production is harmful to the environment, to the earth, and this is aside from any issues with animal cruelty or the health of eating the meat itself. There are facts to back this up, if you ever have looked into this at all you would know that. It takes large amount of farmland just to make enough food to feed ONE cow for a year. If everyone in the world was a vegetarian it would be much easier to feed everyone, and the world would be a lot healthier. Ill go do some googling and try to come back with some links.

As far as value of freedom..well that should be obvious. These animals are raised in captivity, a lot of people have a problem with that. You dont, obviously, but I could at least hope you could empathize with why someone would.

 

[HobbyIsBowling]

These animals are raised in captivity, a lot of people have a problem with that. You dont, obviously, but I could at least hope you could empathize with why someone would.

I definately empathize with you guys, even though I don't totally agree. I think the way some chickens are stacked on top of each other in warehouses is wrong, but I don't really know where to draw the line because I don't feel like this would be so bad if it were done outside. The whole warehouse feel just doesn't sit with me, I don't know. But basically I am not against the slaughtering of animals, but I understand those who are against it. I would like to see some modifications and increased regulations of such activities, but I do not want to see them outright outlawed.

What I am against is do-gooders(I'm not talking about you here notdeja) denouncing those of us who don't share their point of view as ignorant unenlightened fools who are going to hell:

Anyone who looks at it at any angle cannot possibly say it's healthy for anyone, except for our own comforts and standards (and is stagnation healthy?).

Anyone who looks at this cannot possibly disagree with you? Pffft, please. Guess what? I do, and so does most of the population here in the US.

Here's a starting point: Without meat, I would not be as physically strong as I am. Period. How is being physically strong "not healthy for anyone"? Explain this to me. Is physical strength part of my own "comforts and standards"? I don't understand where you're going with the comforts and standards thing, if you put physical strength into comforts and standards, then what possibly would not fall into this category? And even if something did fall in this category, so what? What's your point? That it's a want and not a need? If strength is a want and not a need, then I'd be interested to know exactly what you consider "needs".

You're speaking with your heart and you're not being open-minded about the subject. This is very typical of PETA spokesman. I understand where you are coming from and I respect your opinion, but you don't appear to understand my point of view nor respect it. This is what pisses me off, and that's one reason my post has an inflammatory tone.

Originally posted by StagnantReaction
I would GREATLY appreciate it (and be able to sleep easy) if people knew consciously where the food came from and paid some respect, dignity, or goddamn thought, but alas, they don't NEED to, so who cares?

Some goddamn thought? So you're assuming that I haven't put any "goddamn thought" into this issue? Just because I disagree with you that means I don't have any respect, dignity, or the ability to engage in "goddamn thought"? Get out of here with that garbage. Like I said before, you overstepped the line when you started with this tone.

 

[bingey]

I saw this documentary about a guy who was planning to become as old as possible using his special diet and all he ate all day long were tons of steamed vegetables.

 

[Strawberry_lovemuffin]

^Like those 120-year old people you read about who drink and have smoked a pack a day since they were 14? Exceptions. Lucky people with exceptional genetics exist.

HobbyIsBowling: *round of applause*. I agree, it's the preachy tone, not the ideal itself that I find annoying about (some peoples') vegetarian agenda. That, and a fair dose of hyperbole. Sneering at people's "ignorance" is counterproductive. They're just as likely to shut the door on you like you were a Jehovah's witness on their doorstep on Saturday morning.

 

[Jimmy the Gun]

Here's a starting point: Without meat, I would not be as physically strong as I am. Period.

Have you ever not eaten meat for an extended amount of time? When I became vegan, I gained weight and my strength increased without any effort on my part.

just a thought.

 

[U.R.B.4.U.R.]

Have you ever not eaten meat for an extended amount of time? When I became vegan, I gained weight and my strength increased without any effort on my part.

just a thought.

This I think is true. Meat protein is not necessarily better than other sources of protein.

Look at some of the strongest biggest animals on the planet. Not meat eaters. ( elephants, african water buffalo, ect.)

 

[StagnantReaction]

^^ Exactly. So whoever said they're super strong on meat, is going to burn out by the age of 40. Besides, real carnivores eat meat raw. Do you have claws? Can you chew through raw skin?

 

[basix]

^ why exactly are they going to 'burn out ' by the time they are 40. If you don't mind me asking.

 

[bingey]

^
cause he doesn't eat meat and needs a reason for feeling good about it?

 

[StagnantReaction]

There are way more pressing and disconcerting issues in the world today than where my steak dinner comes from, period.

Really? More pressing concerns than:

- in 2002 more than one-third of all fossil fuels produced in the United States were used to raise animals for food. Can someone remind me why the US is in Iraq again?

- the average vegan uses about 1/6 of an acre of land to satisfy his or her food requirements for a year; the average vegetarian who consumes dairy products and eggs requires about three times that, and the average meat-eater requires about 20 times that much land. We can grow a lot more food on an equal amount of land if we’re not funneling the crops through animals. There are people going hungry in America, 20,000 people dying daily of hunger. I can't see more pressing issues than dying people who shouldn't be.

- Dr. T. Colin Campbell is one of the world’s foremost epidemiological scientists and director of what The New York Times called “the most comprehensive large study ever undertaken of the relationship between diet and the risk of developing disease.” Dr. Campbell’s studies have shown that, as he puts it, “the vast majority of all cancers, cardiovascular diseases, and other forms of degenerative illness can be prevented simply by adopting a plant-based diet.”

- According to the National Audubon Society, raising animals for food requires about as much water as all other water uses combined, even as many areas are experiencing drought conditions. It requires about 300 gallons of water to feed a vegan for a day. It requires about four times as much to feed a vegetarian, and 14 times as much to feed a meat-eater.

- Raising animals for food is also a water-polluting process. One dairy cow produces more than 100 pounds of excrement per day. The animals raised in the U.S. produce 130 times the excrement of the entire human population of this country. Their excrement is more concentrated than human excrement and is often contaminated with herbicides, pesticides, toxic chemicals, hormones, antibiotics, and so on. These massive farmed animal factories don’t have waste treatment plants, so this sludge goes in vast quantities onto and destroys topsoil, or it goes into and pollutes water, often causing ecological imbalances and killing fish and other aquatic life.

If you don't care about what you're putting into even your own body, then fine. What do you care about?! I might not be able to change your mind, but I don't care.. I am not telling you what to do or guilting you-- that's interpretation. I just want to tell people the truth.

"^ why exactly are they going to 'burn out ' by the time they are 40. If you don't mind me asking."
The results of two, fat-modified diets, a lactoovovegetarian one rich in plant-based foods, and another in which 60% of the plant protein was replaced with protein from lean meat, were compared. While both diets lowered cholesterol and blood pressure relative to a high-fat diet, the vegetarian diet had a significantly greater cholesterol-lowering effect than the prudent non-vegetarian diet.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/50/2/280
^^ Heart disease and cancers are the number one killers of people over the age of 40. By adopting as close to a vegatarian diet as possible you are lowering your risk of dying sooner.

cause he doesn't eat meat and needs a reason for feeling good about it?
If anyone thinks that I'm speaking out about this because I want to feel superior, then you're quite mistaken. I think its clear that we are all *equal* people and we should have equal opportunities..and I dont see that happening because people are fucking needlessly DYING because they were told it weas cool to eat dead things...if people are dying because they are misinformed, then I want to inform them. I dont think I'm better. However, I don't *and shouldnt* feel wrong about feeling good through knowing the truth. Im helping myself. I feel good, wouldnt you? But hell, I hate the government and regulators, because they're raped by corporations. Theyre victimizing the people by keeping everybody ignorant. You think their main objective is your well being, or their own profit? You cannot expect them to spoon feed you all the important information--if you care, then actively seek answers for yourself. You must figure out for yourself what you're consuming, even if that means learning that you cant trust the suits as much as your first thought(cough). I'm not trying to make people feel bad about their habits, I'm simply trying to help you open your eyes. Its not for me--its for you. The people deserve to be informed. Jefferson said that information is the currency of democracy.

Google is your friend, it's simple to find out the answers. Be responsible for your own education and take hints when you can. But if you don't care, then don't! It's obvious how much a simple issue effects everything around you, and you can simply stay informed and help by empowering yourself.

AND TELL ME YOU DON'T SNIFF THE TACO BELL MEAT AND THINK ABOUT WHAT IT IS FOR HALF A SECOND..

 

[bingey]

I didn't say you were acting as if you felt superior although now I see you do , I just said that you needed some reasons even if they are not correct to abstain from eating meat , just like die-hardchristians need reasons for abstainig from stuff like pre marital sex & televisions (burning in hell is the most important one I think)

 

[U.R.B.4.U.R.]

^^ Exactly. So whoever said they're super strong on meat, is going to burn out by the age of 40. Besides, real carnivores eat meat raw. Do you have claws? Can you chew through raw skin?

Here's where we disagree Stag. I'm in my 50s and have eaten meat all my life. I'm doing better than many folks I work with who are vegan or vegetarian, (I work in a natural foods store, so I see em all), who are just into their 30s.

Like I said some folks do great on meat and some don't.

Pigs eat meat and they don't have claws. Cooking has allowed us to eat through skin. Some plants also need to be cooked.

You're too sure you know the whole truth friend. You don't and you never will.

Still I think much of what you say is true for me and I'm glad to hear you talking about it. I can tell you care.

 

[StagnantReaction]

Perhaps we will see soon how well our bodies and environment react to bad dieting and the meat industry's corner cutting.

Or maybe our culture can keep pushing the cholesterol and lactose pills and keep the blame off of themselves.

Yeah, no one knows the real truth in everything, but the facts that a lot of health and environmental issues are arising from this aren't too "beyond" our view.

Sure, I can't see in every corner of the universe; no one can.. but I can see the cause of the #1 killer of old people. Not everyone is blessed with good genetics to stay healthy against their risky behavior.

 

[U.R.B.4.U.R.]

Well you know Stag, I hate to argue with you because I think we're on the same side here.

The question goes much farther than meat. Just about the whole average american diet is unhealthy.

For me it boils down to right and wrong. I can not advocate crulty to animals ( and I'm talking here about torture farming practices).

It's really a moot point for me which is more health promoting, as long as these farming practices continue.

And I do agree with most of what you're saying. Good enough for me.

 

[U.R.B.4.U.R.]

Stag, I think the number 1 killer of old people, is the medical profession.

 

[Jimmy the Gun]

I just said that you needed some reasons even if they are not correct to abstain from eating meat

actually the land use and cruelty to living beings and links to human disease stuff is true.
what incorrect reasons are you talking about bingeboy?

 

[bingey]

this one --> Exactly. So whoever said they're super strong on meat, is going to burn out by the age of 40.

But your nit-picking is a bit small minded , you can say it's is true that animals are being mistreated & and you can say that you feel it is wrong but you can't say it IS since that's just a question of perspective
Nature is cruel too in my eyes so there isn't really anything wrong with our behavior .

 

[U.R.B.4.U.R.]

Nature is cruel too in my eyes so there isn't really anything wrong with our behavior .

Nature is red in tooth and claw, but rarely is she needlessly cruel. Most animals have a natural shut off mechanism called shock. It's provided by nature and tends to greatly deminish suffering.

Humans on the other had are needlessly cruel, in the name of greed. My friend go to a dairy farm or an egg farm and spend some time. If you have what I call a heart, it will get broken.

See how veal is produced and put yourself in the animals place.( a baby cow, unable to ever walk or turn around, living in its own waste for it's whole life, so you can have extra fatty, tender meat).Gandi said that the proof of the advancement of a culture is in how they treat their animals.