Detox About to do a Kratom Detox

[Cdkman]

this is my list of drugs to fight opiate withdrawal: Lyrica..enless u are using an insane dosage or another ROA than oral or nasal, lyrica will take away mostly all WD

start with either one 300mg dose a day or 2 150mg doses..I don't take over 900mg in a day because it has weird side effects and no rise in positive effects..tolerance raises quickly but will go back to around baseline after a 3 day wait

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Honey, I've been reading this off and on.. I commend you for wanting to get clean. But I feel like your treading on real thin ice by fucking with hard opiotes and stims , while trying to quit kratom.

I'll keep an eye out and wish you the best... But every time I read your posts I cringe and get half anxious as I see this going south real quick..

Am I the party pooper. ?

It's ironic that I posted DAY 8 "failure" at the same time as become a bluelighter :D

not you are not the party pooper - perhaps the reality checker? sometimes I wonder how much I actually lie to myself and twist my logic just to get my own way. It's kind of impossible to know, we are human animals after all.

Last weekend didn't go as planned as soon as I picked up the coke. It feels like a horrible memory now already. Perhaps I can chalk it up as another of those "meant to be" things to remind myself of what not to do in future.

thanks. I don't think I will go all the way south, but might continue to have these setbacks if I keep changing the plan or picking up new drugs. Another wise person said "don't kid yourself" and "stick to the plan" in a PM. It might just be that I have to re-evaluate and start again with a new plan. My sober from kratom target date is March 13th so there is time

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

this is my list of drugs to fight opiate withdrawal: Lyrica..enless u are using an insane dosage or another ROA than oral or nasal, lyrica will take away mostly all WD

start with either one 300mg dose a day or 2 150mg doses..I don't take over 900mg in a day because it has weird side effects and no rise in positive effects..tolerance raises quickly but will go back to around baseline after a 3 day wait

thanks for straight point - as I mentioned at the beginning I am a terrified puppy about quitting kratom due to the fact I picked it up when I was going a bit OCD loopy with my SAD and getting suicidal. That is why I have surrounded myself with so many detox drugs. Especially as I have heard the worst part of the Kratom detox is the mental aspect. Anyway now I don't have any more access to any more lyrica so will have to make do with 3 x 200mg - I guess they will just be 1 for an experiment and 2 for crisis moments.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

When i was down to only 15mgs roxy doses i would be able to match up almost perfect to 6 grams bali kratom.

unfortunately I'll only have the 200mg x 3 now. That will have to go on my backup crisis meds.

I've found most bali's are at least half as weak as your average good green malay or other mildly stimulating strain. One Bali I was taking took me 3 teaspoons to get much out of at a minimum, so that's about 7.5g. Apparently no Kratom actually comes from Bali anyway! it's just cos there was a wholesaler there in the earlier days. Your dosage sounds roughly right either way.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

DAY 9

12 midday after last weekend I wonder if I might be failing the addict test. Oblivion is not really in sight but I do wonder about why I used any coke at all last weekend or any stims on Monday... I didn't ruin the whole plan, or my sleeping patterns, or use any large amounts of kratom. But I did get in a pretty fucked up state and didn't have any fun and it didn't feel like progress in any way at all. I'm kind of sorry I have to post it tbh, I wanted to post all good news and progress.

Monday - yesterday. I ended up going to bed at 9pm with massive nausea. My body is telling me something. Slept for 12 hours, and haven't touched any Kratom yet.

As mentioned earlier I might restart the detox plan, possibly give myself some time out, but will keep posting here whatever happens.

EDIT 1PM - took 1 2.5g kratom 15 mins ago, feeling level despite overall disappointment in myself.

EDIT 00:40AM - took total 10g today with nothing extra apart from some vitamins, supplements and Sam-e. Productivity was average, did the basic minimum of everything - walk, pressups, made food, some life admin tasks.

Right now I'm just freaking out because the police knocked on my door at midnight because our car was reported stolen (but it wasn't just wrong number plate). Being watched, monitored, under surveillance or raided by police is my number one amphetamine psychosis trip. I had it for 12 hours a week ago during one of my binges, it's the most horrific thing because you know it's not real, but your mind believes it and creates it anyway. It has quite long after effects if you have a bad one. Like when you see a police car or a uniform it gives a fear response. I've only ever had it once before and it was quite traumatic tbh... Just writing this here is kind of relieving. But... if I stop posting suddenly you know that visit from them was some kind of entrapment

either way, another reason to get sober/control back.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

I have renamed the thread for now to avoid confusion. Heads up I probably will touch some other opiates again before the final kratom detox and I will report how they work on their own without kratom. e.g. I have some DHC and some morphine continus atm. I will sit on them for now as I don't want to use stronger opiates more than 2 days in a row.

What I might do is to switch to a more rigorous approach in a different thread during the "jump off" week and the aftermath. I didn't think I would sketch out like I did last weekend during this diary, it's kind of sad to have to post it and a lesson to me again about my dishonesty to myself.

 

[the last dose]

I have renamed the thread for now to avoid confusion. Heads up I probably will touch some other opiates again before the final kratom detox and I will report how they work on their own without kratom. e.g. I have some DHC and some morphine continus atm. I will sit on them for now as I don't want to use stronger opiates more than 2 days in a row.

What I might do is to switch to a more rigorous approach in a different thread during the "jump off" week and the aftermath. I didn't think I would sketch out like I did last weekend during this diary, it's kind of sad to have to post it and a lesson to me again about my dishonesty to myself.

Your over thinking this DTLC, you are not on high doses it will not be as difficult as you are preparing for. I would not even set a date i kept weening and got to the point where i knew i was ready mentally,
and my dose was right for jumping. Its more mental than you know i was over thinking this shit also. I was messaging back and forth with moderator keif richards he gave me great info then when i was over thinking it near the end he said you got this at this point and said i did most of the hard work already and he was spot on!. If you really want to end the kratom and ops its being prepared mentally getting it in your mind you will do this the rest will not be that bad especially with your comfort meds. And dont over think your confort meds like Cdkman said lyrica will take away most of your wds it did for me too. Over thinking wds causes more anxiety its not worth the worry you got this if you want it.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Your over thinking this DTLC, you are not on high doses it will not be as difficult as you are preparing for. I would not even set a date i kept weening and got to the point where i knew i was ready mentally,
and my dose was right for jumping. Its more mental than you know i was over thinking this shit also. I was messaging back and forth with moderator keif richards he gave me great info then when i was over thinking it near the end he said you got this at this point and said i did most of the hard work already and he was spot on!. If you really want to end the kratom and ops its being prepared mentally getting it in your mind you will do this the rest will not be that bad especially with your comfort meds. And dont over think your confort meds like Cdkman said lyrica will take away most of your wds it did for me too. Over thinking wds causes more anxiety its not worth the worry you got this if you want it.

You are so right. My mental health problem is literally "an over-thinking" problem ... over worrying, over fearing, over ruminating, over sensitive...

it's funny that I've even started to worry about this thread now and getting it right or "perfect". I should be doing other things and getting on with that instead of worrying about this. Just report the facts and keep moving...

thanks

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

btw I noticed that my L-Tyrosine headache lasted for days.... I will try to find somewhere to cross post this because it was quite painful and kind of worrying - L-Tyrosine is supposed to help with opiate WDS. But apparently MAOI's interact with L-Tyrosine, and Kratom has some "monoamide alkaloids".

https://drugs-forum.com/threads/kratom-and-maoi.74289/

turns out kratom has just about every effect you can think of and interacts with most drugs. It's also hard to know what's what because so many alkaloids and so many strains. Because I've been doing it for a while I forgot about that, but the serotonin effects with coke/amphetamines can get very heavy and rushy for example.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I would strongly suggest you work on learning to build concentration and learn to focus your mind a bit more DTLC. I was in a rehab once (a really shite one) and was constantly being put down for being a smart, intelligent individual, constantly being told my problem was "my thinking." It was far from helpful.

One of the most significantly helpful things anyone said about it on BL when I mentioned something about it years later was when another user (I think ho-chi-min) said something along the lines of this in response to their belittling comments about my intellect: "fuck that shit. learn to work with your mind and use it to your advantage."

I basically would recommend the same thing to you. Learn some basic mindfulness techniques to deal with the ruminating, anxious, fearful thoughts that are so common when trying to detox. Learn how to redirect obsession over using into obsessions with ways to improve your health. Learn to work with what you have! You mind can become your biggest asset if only you learn how to work with and direct your attention in more skillful ways.

Check out Diana Winston's book, Fully Present, for a great overview of simple secular/clinically oriented mindfulness practices. It only takes repetition and practice to learn how to start employing them, and will give you something truly helpful and healthy to focus on as you continue your taper/detox. And of course there is always the MBHR sticky, but frankly I think a good comprehensive overview on the subject like her book is something you'd benefit a lot more from right now considering how analytical (like myself) you are.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

I would strongly suggest you work on learning to build concentration and learn to focus your mind a bit more DTLC. I was in a rehab once (a really shite one) and was constantly being put down for being a smart, intelligent individual, constantly being told my problem was "my thinking." It was far from helpful.

One of the most significantly helpful things anyone said about it on BL when I mentioned something about it years later was when another user (I think ho-chi-min) said something along the lines of this in response to their belittling comments about my intellect: "fuck that shit. learn to work with your mind and use it to your advantage."

I basically would recommend the same thing to you. Learn some basic mindfulness techniques to deal with the ruminating, anxious, fearful thoughts that are so common when trying to detox. Learn how to redirect obsession over using into obsessions with ways to improve your health. Learn to work with what you have! You mind can become your biggest asset if only you learn how to work with and direct your attention in more skillful ways.

Check out Diana Winston's book, Fully Present, for a great overview of simple secular/clinically oriented mindfulness practices. It only takes repetition and practice to learn how to start employing them, and will give you something truly helpful and healthy to focus on as you continue your taper/detox. And of course there is always the MBHR sticky, but frankly I think a good comprehensive overview on the subject like her book is something you'd benefit a lot more from right now considering how analytical (like myself) you are.

Thanks man - I have 3 or 4 meditation books in my room and I attended a Shamatha (mindfulness) retreat with Llama B Alan Wallace a couple years ago. I haven't practiced daily in about a year now (since starting the kratom daily). I am literally surrounded by tools and get so fucking carried away with other things I forget they even exist. The stimulating aspect of Kratom was great for productivity, but terrible for obsessive tendencies. You just get locked in on something for hours and have the energy to keep going.

I thank you so much for your point. On Sunday I literally went into a trance while I was high and just read about drugs and research chemicals all day. I don't even know where the day went, I was so un-mindful.... and like you say, you can use that obsessive power to your advantage if it's for a greater purpose. But when it's just trying to decide what to buy on eBay or even worse - about drugs or relationships or negative obsessions in general, yeah it's literally the addictive mind in action. I believe addiction in it's psychological form is just obsession, and that it can be moulded if you put your mind to it. I believe that the truest addicts have enormous power at their fingertips if they could just direct their obsession to something that is healthy and rewarding in a different way. Something like learning to practice "delayed gratification" while focusing on something that could become your new healthy addiction eventually because it's just more rewarding than anything else in the end.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Working on delaying gratification until, at the least, one has accomplished something of potential equal value. Basically, doing something health that is of at least as much positive benefit before engaging in some behavior (such as substance use) that is potentially harmful. Not a very simple calculous in practice, but it basically comes down to doing something healthy either prior to or in response to engaging in potentially harmful behaviors.

Browsing drugs.net stuff is super fun, especially under the influence, but instant gratification can be just as harmful as helpful when it comes to learning to master healthier habits. Keep in mind that healthy habits are much more rewarding mid-long term than mere instant gratification. If you aren't finding healthy habits you are already familiar with to be particularly enjoyable, get creative and find ways to shift your relationship to them into something more positive.

Perhaps starting a thread about how to delay and manage this tendency we have towards instant gratification would be helpful for you (and others undoubtably).

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

DAY 10

8.30pm - 2.5g nothing else until 5pm, was quite a feat considering I pretty much had an argument with psychiatrist. Long story and no time to document it, I'm kind of in the zone trying to fix some challenging life admin problems now so will post less for a bit but will return with long paragraphs shortly no doubt

I resorted to escapism after the drama with psych and oral 250mg medium opium, 50mg smoked, and 150mg DHC + potentiators. At this point I am borderline sustained with the opium plus only 30mg DHC. I just popped the other 120mg DHC now to push it towards a recreational high. I probably could have stayed at 10g kratom today but I have so much writing to do and I do indeed now have too many opiate drugs to call this a true detox so I have to use them at some point. At this point I own small amounts of 3 different opiums so it may be confusing to read. Let's call them weak, medium and strong. Today was the medium variety.

I have been PM - ing with TPD about whether to restart this thread to make it a better example because I've scored more stronger opiates and I'm going to use a bit more other opiates on and off before finally committing to the home run detox stage of the kratom. I have decided and been persuaded to document the whole rollercoaster so we can observe my addiction and rational/irrational confusion over my agenda in all it's glory.

I want to acknowledge the imperfection of my process because it's really bothering me. But what can I say, I'm only human after all - and this is a hard time on many levels beyond just the detox so I forgive myself for using these crutches a bit longer than necessary and experimenting on myself for the greater good

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Perhaps starting a thread about how to delay and manage this tendency we have towards instant gratification would be helpful for you (and others undoubtably).

perhaps I can call that my "home run" thread once I get out of this hard stage I'm in and review what my plan actually is again. I'm guessing next 10 days I will fuck around and experiment a bit more but try to stay at 10g kratom. Then I can do the 3 weeks home run maybe. Keep you posted (pun intended)

 

[Jabberwocky]

Stabilizing on a moderate maintenance dose, then stepping down to a lower one and stabilizing on that again before you enter the final phase of the taper, is a great idea. It will make the last stages of getting off much more manageable.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

update soon, just too busy atm

 

[Jabberwocky]

Busy is good

No rush - looking forward to it.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Days 11-14

Days 11-14

TO BE SUMMARISED LATER

a bit messy, quite productive, not too bad overall

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

DAY 15 - Detox Diary

Day 15

Kind of losing the format here...

11pm - Total 7.5g + 2.5mg Dex + 0.04g strong hash sublingual (didn't do much tbh, sublingual bad idea EDIT: Got very high at 1am, hash got stuck in teeth :D) + some tiny bumps of K to experiment with tolerance modulation.


Cutting in fine on this dose today. Hard work. It was the jump down 25% day and I managed to start early yesterday - Sunday with 7.5g + 30mg DHC plus some other tiny doses of meds.

Today didn't really feel my afternoon/evening kratom dose or the 2.5mg Dex. I put them on a full stomache but I did alkalize and it was a fatty meal so it should have been felt more. I also tried to co-administer a tiny bump of K after eating the kratom and dex. Not sure about that logic but wondered if it might help re tolerance. There was a split second moment when the K effects and the kratom/dex just started creeping in, and they crossed over. I wondered if the K actually interfered with my high, but probably more to do with the taper and the food I expect.

I did fuck around with stronger opiates or equal strength opiates over the last few days due to drama and over excessive desires to experiment with Dihydrocodeine and Morphine. Nothing too dramatic though. Will update it above later hopefully if I don't get too carried away with being busy trying to sort my life out. Lots of life dramas making this harder, but also good to actually focus on resolving problems instead of in my own head making problems.


Side comment - I experimented with 300mg Pregabalin during WDS and it does fuck all for me pretty much. Getting a little bit more though, I have no idea why it's supposed to help. Maybe I need higher doses so we shall see. Phenibut does little for me too apart from make me uncomfortable. I think my GABA system is totally fucked due to this benzo WD and toxic drug experience I have mentioned previously.

Side comment 2 - I've found a bunch of (research?) chemicals or FDA approved drugs that are not in popular use that might help me. Others will know what I'm talking about. Proglumide, Memantine etc...

But the main one I'm interested in is Flumazenil. It's the equivalent of Naltrexone for Benzos. Due to my mental health issues and subsequently my original use of Kratom being tied into the benzo abuse/WD etc, I have a suspicion it's worth a trial...

I think I can do this taper fine, I will be cycling a bit more onto codeine and DHC a bit, just cos... I'm fucked up like that and want to play a little more before I have to put my toys away. But also it seems to help when switching from kratom to one of those for 1 or 2 days. It makes the serotogenic and adregenic properties of kratom stand out a bit more when switching back.


Side Comment 3 - Also bought some Rhodiola and DLPA in pure powder form... Fuck me they are quite intense adding to an opiate administration. So much so that they make me uncomfortable. I had to lie down with a single teaspoon kratom dose on the weekend. Will post details and dosages during later experiments, they should be useful in the taper and the final jump off.

What ISN'T useful, are amino acids. Every time I try L Theanine or L Tyrosine I get a massive headache. Definitely some new evidence for my neurochemical imbalances... something to do with glutamate system and/or choline and/or nitrogen. I literally have no idea, I'm not yet on a level with some of the neurochemists who hang out here. I have some nitrous oxide cannisters so might try that for a laugh. I did think I would save them for years until they are so rare in the UK I would make millions (they got banned 6 months ago)...

Best wishes




ps - what the fuck are these side comments anyway? my formatting has gone nuts In the end I will OCD tidy up the entire thread... bear with me and we might make this a valuable thread yet.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Day 16

DAY 16 - THE DAY of the RESTLESS LEGS, for no reason

6.30pm - 7.5g Kratom, 1.25g weaker strain, 2mg lope, 7.5mg Dex, 150mg Rhodiola, 400mg Sam-e, 2g kava...

EDIT: just now added another 2.5g average strain.

EDIT (next day): I added 2.5g stem and vein and 120mg codeine sulphate and 2.5mg Dex. My tolerance was having a wild swing, I was exhausted, I had work to do and was getting massive RLS. I just couldn't stop topping up to keep positive enough to keep moving. Kind of a failure... I even had insomnia and RLS symptoms with all of that (I did give the Dex time to wind down)... will need to restart next week to find a stable dose again I guess.

FYI - RHODIOLA POWDER SEEMS VERY STRONG AND EFFECTIVE BUT SHORT ACTING. This powder I have seems to have a sudden onset, like alcohol. Probably because it's not entering my system via capsules, which is what I have tried in the past. I find that it gives a really nice mood and energy boost for about an hour, even the little 150mg dose with some water. Personally it's one of the best pieces in my kit so far for the Kratom WDS around mood and energy, not RLS. I will experiment with it more. This is non standard 4% rosavins extract powder in bulk, standard is 3%... I have found that 300mg is actually too strong for me in water. I think a lot gets absorbed very quickly sublingually actually, have not researched that yet. But it sticks to the mouth if it's not fully dissolved in water. The rush is quite powerful, to the point that it damages the opiate high because it almost brings on nausea over a short time. I would hazard a guess that this plant, combined with loperamide or anything else that can deal with RLS and diarrhea could be the ultimate 2 tool toolkit for kratom WDS. I will try that on some other days and report back.


This is actually the hardest day yet. Partly because I did fuck around with morphine and codeine and opium a couple times during the 4 day "break" from the diary. But, I never went above a 12.5-15 gram equivalence by my estimations.

So, in the AM woke with restless legs, had nightmares, shitty sleep. Dosed 4mg Loperamide - did nothing, dosed half teaspoon (1.25g) of a weaker strain, did nothing. Slept til midday on and off after my morning dose because I could finally have some comfort from the restless legs. All day in the dips between doses have had restless legs. Have even eaten some Dex and it's doing nothing.

I may have to extend the 7.5g attempt into next week, because I know the 5g attempt the week after will be the hardest yet, as I was stable on 7.5g for quite a long time.

This might all have something to do with Ph levels, Magnesium and Calcium, and what kind of foods I'm eating and then dosing on top of. I stopped taking Mag and Calc due to a worry that I was over dosing on them, so giving my body time to balance it's levels. Ph levels I'm not sure, I'm drinking Apple Cider Vinegar, lemon juice and Aloe Vera so that should have a positive/alkalising effect...

The way things are going I doubt I can stick to 7.5g today without extreme discomfort later, so will dose (just dosed) a 2.5g of a slightly strain, and 12mg lope tonight for sleep later. Not sure what else I might grab, maybe another test with Pregabalin but a higher dose instead of the lope, that might be a smarter plan.

edit (next day, see dosages at top): overall a failure day, need to reassess what my stable dose is and perhaps re-try to stay on 10g and nothing else for a week, then try the 7.5g step down again as this week seems a bit fucked.