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A serious thread about online poker

I actually think the decision whether to fold AA is often an interesting discussion.

In a DON SNG, here is how I would decide, on the bubble.

I would ask myself the following question --

"Does my making the top 5 depend entirely on whether the short stack wins his all in?"

In other words, if my stack is so small that I am assured of finishing 6th IF the Short stack wins his all in, I would just add my chips to the pile and increase the chances that I beat him with my AA (This assumes my stack is equal or larger to his so that I can actually bust him).

As an example, if there are 6 left and the short stack and I each have 400 at the 100 200 level, and the other players have 3175 each, and the short stack pushes, everyone calls, and I have AA, I am calling.

I see no value in folding. If the short stack wins his all in, I am going to bubble. If he loses the all in, he bubbles and I win. So why not get in with the AA and increase the chances that the short stack actually does lose?

Regarding the last question you asked, if I am short stack on the bubble and there three all ins in front of me and I have AA in the big blind, I might consider folding. But again, it depends on how likely I think I am to survive if no one gets knocked out. What it the short stack holds up, possibly because we folded our AA? Now we are still a short stack with no guarantee of getting a good hand.

As an extreme example though, if 4 people are all in for EXACTLY 2500 on the bubble and I have less than 2500, I am folding every time with AA, because surely SOMEONE is getting knocked out since they all have the same stack and can all knock each other out. But if I stick it in, and multiple people lose, I get 6th by reason of starting the hand with fewer chips.

I like discussing poker with you. I am glad this thread has drawn interest.
 
And on a positive note, I played my first real session in 5 months (various frustrating reason for why I had to take 5 months off).

The results were mind boggling.

I played 6.7 hours and played 34 games. All were 45 man SNGS. 3 of them were $26, and 31 of them were $75. I had 6 to 10 games going at a time.

I had 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th, for a net profit of just under $3000.00.

It's always nice to get back into it with a monster session.
 
Fjones said:
And on a positive note, I played my first real session in 5 months (various frustrating reason for why I had to take 5 months off).

The results were mind boggling.

I played 6.7 hours and played 34 games. All were 45 man SNGS. 3 of them were $26, and 31 of them were $75. I had 6 to 10 games going at a time.

I had 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th, for a net profit of just under $3000.00.

It's always nice to get back into it with a monster session.
Click to expand...

Congrads.

Anyone have any thoughts on DoN Turbo SnGs ? I've been doing really bad lately playing them, and I think I need to switch to the non-turbo DoNs.

The difference is 5 vs 10 min blinds. During a turbo I feel like if you're getting bad cards.. the blinds just eat you away, and you're forced to push w/ a mediocre hand (in my case JTo), if you've been playing tight and don't have that many chips, and then run up again KK. I see people winning with high pocket pairs, high suited cards, etc... I wasn't getting any of those hands it seemed...

Thoughts on turbos? Play as many decent hands as you can early, while the blinds are low? With a big stack, start stealing when most players have ~10 BBs? Should strategy early on be accumulating as many chips as possible while the blinds are low, playing looser than you normally would?

Oh man.. this hand happened as I was typing this response...Anything I could've done differently? I got my $ in PF... so this is just bad luck right? Could've I have just called his PF RR? Doesn't sound like a good move though? I know beating aces isn't anything extraordinary, but my bankroll has been taking some hits and this just hurts so much more...

PokerStars Game #26909165526: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2009/04/09 17:08:44 ET
Table 'Polyxo III' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: peterlolol ($1.81 in chips)
Seat 2: paul75404 ($3.17 in chips)
Seat 3: 222bowhunter ($0.65 in chips)
Seat 4: NikolasM7 ($4.77 in chips)
Seat 5: FunbI4 ($4.45 in chips)
Seat 6: BARAKUDAKULA ($2.77 in chips)
FunbI4: posts small blind $0.01
BARAKUDAKULA: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NikolasM7 [Ah Ac]
peterlolol: calls $0.02
paul75404: calls $0.02
222bowhunter: calls $0.02
NikolasM7: raises $0.08 to $0.10
FunbI4: folds
BARAKUDAKULA: raises $0.16 to $0.26
peterlolol: folds
paul75404: folds
222bowhunter: folds
NikolasM7: raises $2.25 to $2.51
BARAKUDAKULA: raises $0.26 to $2.77 and is all-in
NikolasM7: calls $0.26
*** FLOP *** [6h 2s 4c]
*** TURN *** [6h 2s 4c] [Jh]
*** RIVER *** [6h 2s 4c Jh] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BARAKUDAKULA: shows [Jd Js] (a full house, Jacks full of Fours)
NikolasM7: mucks hand
BARAKUDAKULA collected $5.36 from pot
 
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Bedhead said:
Congrads.

Anyone have any thoughts on DoN Turbo SnGs ? I've been doing really bad lately playing them, and I think I need to switch to the non-turbo DoNs.

The difference is 5 vs 10 min blinds. During a turbo I feel like if you're getting bad cards.. the blinds just eat you away, and you're forced to push w/ a mediocre hand (in my case JTo), if you've been playing tight and don't have that many chips, and then run up again KK. I see people winning with high pocket pairs, high suited cards, etc... I wasn't getting any of those hands it seemed...

Thoughts on turbos? Play as many decent hands as you can early, while the blinds are low? With a big stack, start stealing when most players have ~10 BBs? Should strategy early on be accumulating as many chips as possible while the blinds are low, playing looser than you normally would?

Oh man.. this hand happened as I was typing this response...Anything I could've done differently? I got my $ in PF... so this is just bad luck right? Could've I have just called his PF RR? Doesn't sound like a good move though? I know beating aces isn't anything extraordinary, but my bankroll has been taking some hits and this just hurts so much more...

PokerStars Game #26909165526: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2009/04/09 17:08:44 ET
Table 'Polyxo III' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: peterlolol ($1.81 in chips)
Seat 2: paul75404 ($3.17 in chips)
Seat 3: 222bowhunter ($0.65 in chips)
Seat 4: NikolasM7 ($4.77 in chips)
Seat 5: FunbI4 ($4.45 in chips)
Seat 6: BARAKUDAKULA ($2.77 in chips)
FunbI4: posts small blind $0.01
BARAKUDAKULA: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NikolasM7 [Ah Ac]
peterlolol: calls $0.02
paul75404: calls $0.02
222bowhunter: calls $0.02
NikolasM7: raises $0.08 to $0.10
FunbI4: folds
BARAKUDAKULA: raises $0.16 to $0.26
peterlolol: folds
paul75404: folds
222bowhunter: folds
NikolasM7: raises $2.25 to $2.51
BARAKUDAKULA: raises $0.26 to $2.77 and is all-in
NikolasM7: calls $0.26
*** FLOP *** [6h 2s 4c]
*** TURN *** [6h 2s 4c] [Jh]
*** RIVER *** [6h 2s 4c Jh] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BARAKUDAKULA: shows [Jd Js] (a full house, Jacks full of Fours)
NikolasM7: mucks hand
BARAKUDAKULA collected $5.36 from pot
Click to expand...


I'll take this one step further. At small stakes, when you get aces, just go all in, no matter what. You'll get called. I used to do this and it worked.
 
nguboi said:
Nice man!! Great session. I just started playing some FTP, I relized I had 49$ in the account and 330$ in uncleared bonus's so I started grinding .10 .25 and made it up to 1$ 2$ and cleared 220 of my bonus. haha

You know, it always seems like a nice, refreshing break does the trick, that is, when you come back, your on the upswing of your varience :D, sucks when you come back and you drop 500$.

The one who taught me and my roomate to play just had his biggest win of his online career, man, I need to post HUGE numbers like this. Www.officialpokerranking.com look up AJINOK 3rd in 109$Rebuy for 41,440! sheesh.

Fjones, are you a straight SNG grinder? MTT specialist? Cash game legend? or just a big mix?
Click to expand...

SNG grinder. I have played MTTs and had soem decent scores up to $4000, but I have not yet hit the big one. I hate cash games.
 
I am not one to complain about bad beats much, BUT -- If you are going to complain about a bad beat, at least make it a good one. This is almsot as bad as it gets. Note when the chips go in. There were 11 left in a 45 man $75 SNG. 7,160 chips is a huge amount at this stage of the tournament.


Full Tilt Poker Game #***********: $69 + $6 Sit & Go (********), Table 5 - 300/600 - No Limit Hold'em - 00:00:00 ET - 2009/04/12
Seat 1: Player A (3,511)
Seat 2: HERO (6,800)
Seat 3: Player B (7,926)
Seat 5: Player C (4,186)
Seat 8: Player D (3,280)
Seat 9: Player E (6,005)
Player A posts the small blind of 300
Hero posts the big blind of 600
The button is in seat #9

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Ks 2s]
(all fold to Player D)
Player D calls 600
Player E folds
Player A calls 300
HERO checks

*** FLOP *** [5d Kh Kd]
Player A checks
HERO checks
Player D bets 2,680, and is all in
Player A Folds
HERO calls 2,680
Player D shows [9c As] (OOPS. Why didn't he just move all in pre flop!???)
HERO shows [Ks 2s]

*** TURN *** [5d Kh Kd] [Ad]
*** RIVER *** [5d Kh Kd Ad] [Ac]

Player D shows a full house, Aces full of Kings
HERO shows a full house, Kings full of Aces
Player D wins the pot (7,160) with a full house, Aces full of Kings

I think this is the second worst bad beat you cna possibly take.
 
heh. It Happened again tonight. AQ vs. AJ on Q 4 4 board. Running jacks come.

My return to playing online is going well so far. And, I am currently deep in a tournament. If I win, drinks are on me! Whenever that may be.
 
River jack!! that is wild.

KING EIGHT !????????????????????

WOW.

I made the final table of the 50-50 last night. I felt really good and I thought I was going to have my first 5 figure score. But alas it was not meant to be. My finish was a "disappointing" one but still a good score. I was card dead at the FT and I could not make any moves because of position, stack, etc. When I finally got something I pushed right into KK.
 
Is folding AKo here OK?

PokerStars Game #27191056836: Tournament #156604973, $1.00+$0.10 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2009/04/17 12:51:45 ET
Table '156604973 1' 10-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: NikolasM7 (1120 in chips)
Seat 2: JacKonCracKz (2290 in chips)
Seat 3: kozloow (2195 in chips)
Seat 5: atit9 (7730 in chips)
Seat 7: berrendo929 (1380 in chips)
Seat 9: rs03rs03 (285 in chips)
NikolasM7: posts the ante 30
JacKonCracKz: posts the ante 30
kozloow: posts the ante 30
atit9: posts the ante 30
berrendo929: posts the ante 30
rs03rs03: posts the ante 30
atit9: posts small blind 150
berrendo929: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NikolasM7 [Kc As]
rs03rs03: folds
NikolasM7: folds
JacKonCracKz: folds
kozloow: folds
atit9: calls 150
berrendo929: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ks Qc 9c]
atit9: bets 300
berrendo929: folds
Uncalled bet (300) returned to atit9
atit9 collected 780 from pot
atit9: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 780 | Rake 0
Board [Ks Qc 9c]
Seat 1: NikolasM7 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: JacKonCracKz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: kozloow (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: atit9 (small blind) collected (780)
Seat 7: berrendo929 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: rs03rs03 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

atit9 was playing very loose. Shoving all in every couple of hands, with mediocre cards. He probably bet the flop in this hand w/ air. rs03rs03 had 1 BB blind here, and would be all-in next hand when the blinds reached him. Next hand he ended up getting knocked out, luckily. On the other hand, if by some stroke of luck, he got lucky and won. When the BB reached me I'd have 800, and not in a great spot. Still more than rs03rs03, but 5/6 in chips.

So push w/ AKo and gamble? I'm not sure atit9 would call, but he might. At any rate, I'd probably be ahead or it at least be a coin flip. Is folding here correct bubble play or was I playing scared? I'm thinking the former...
 
Bedhead said:
Is folding AKo here OK?

PokerStars Game #27191056836: Tournament #156604973, $1.00+$0.10 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2009/04/17 12:51:45 ET
Table '156604973 1' 10-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: NikolasM7 (1120 in chips)
Seat 2: JacKonCracKz (2290 in chips)
Seat 3: kozloow (2195 in chips)
Seat 5: atit9 (7730 in chips)
Seat 7: berrendo929 (1380 in chips)
Seat 9: rs03rs03 (285 in chips)
NikolasM7: posts the ante 30
JacKonCracKz: posts the ante 30
kozloow: posts the ante 30
atit9: posts the ante 30
berrendo929: posts the ante 30
rs03rs03: posts the ante 30
atit9: posts small blind 150
berrendo929: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NikolasM7 [Kc As]
rs03rs03: folds
NikolasM7: folds
JacKonCracKz: folds
kozloow: folds
atit9: calls 150
berrendo929: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ks Qc 9c]
atit9: bets 300
berrendo929: folds
Uncalled bet (300) returned to atit9
atit9 collected 780 from pot
atit9: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 780 | Rake 0
Board [Ks Qc 9c]
Seat 1: NikolasM7 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: JacKonCracKz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: kozloow (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: atit9 (small blind) collected (780)
Seat 7: berrendo929 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: rs03rs03 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

atit9 was playing very loose. Shoving all in every couple of hands, with mediocre cards. He probably bet the flop in this hand w/ air. rs03rs03 had 1 BB blind here, and would be all-in next hand when the blinds reached him. Next hand he ended up getting knocked out, luckily. On the other hand, if by some stroke of luck, he got lucky and won. When the BB reached me I'd have 800, and not in a great spot. Still more than rs03rs03, but 5/6 in chips.

So push w/ AKo and gamble? I'm not sure atit9 would call, but he might. At any rate, I'd probably be ahead or it at least be a coin flip. Is folding here correct bubble play or was I playing scared? I'm thinking the former...
Click to expand...

Is this a double or nothing tournament? If so, then I suppose you fold the AK, though I still am not sure. You have enough chips that no one ELSE should be risking calling you on the bubble either, because if you beat a caller, now that caller is in your position.

By the way I think these DON tournaments are a bad idea. Good SNG players can exploit the weaker players to finish 1st a disproportionate amount of the time. That is how I make most of my money. That part of the game is lost in a DON tournament.
 
Fjones said:
Is this a double or nothing tournament? If so, then I suppose you fold the AK, though I still am not sure. You have enough chips that no one ELSE should be risking calling you on the bubble either, because if you beat a caller, now that caller is in your position.

By the way I think these DON tournaments are a bad idea. Good SNG players can exploit the weaker players to finish 1st a disproportionate amount of the time. That is how I make most of my money. That part of the game is lost in a DON tournament.
Click to expand...

Yeah it was a turbo DoN. I agree with you on the DoN vs. regular SnG. It seems that playing regular SnGs would make you a better poker player than then DoNs. All you have to do really is build a chipstack and survive.

I've been running so hot lately. =D Won probably the last 12 or so DoNs in a row!
So Fjones, you would advocate regular SnGs compared to DoNs?
 
Bedhead said:
Yeah it was a turbo DoN. I agree with you on the DoN vs. regular SnG. It seems that playing regular SnGs would make you a better poker player than then DoNs. All you have to do really is build a chipstack and survive.

I've been running so hot lately. =D Won probably the last 12 or so DoNs in a row!
So Fjones, you would advocate regular SnGs compared to DoNs?
Click to expand...

I can't see how playing turbo SNGS DON's would make you a better player, in fact I suspect it will make you worse. I suggest switching immediately before irreparable harm is done.
 
nguboi said:
Dons are and reg sns are similiar in the early levels of the SNG. DONS have probably do not have the varience that normal SNGS do, as half the field gets paid as compared to 2-3 people getting paid. If you KNOW how to play sngs correctly, and know how to play the bubble correctly, DONS can be profitable, but in the low limits (1$) people really dont seem to care if they bubble or not, so you are fighting through a TON of varience.

Also, you are playing turbo dons, so if you dont get a stack early, your going to have to shove very light or until you get a good hand.

And FJONES, you made that final table at the 50/50 on sunday right?
Click to expand...

Tuesday night. I then made the "money" in the 28 K Last night and made a mind-boggling error that took myself out of the tournament with an avg stack and 85 people left out of 1250. I made a dumb dumb dumb play that I am still kicking myself over.
 
Anyone care to share their strategy in 'Heads Up' play?

Its where I really struggle....I like to play Sit n Go's and most of the time i finish in the top 3 but i rarely win. I just really suck head up. I seems to me, especially when playing a real aggressive player, that its just a crap shoot.

So how do yall play?
 
If its down to HU of a sng the blinds are usually really high relative to stacks sizes, its mostly just time to push any decent hands, push over their limps with a wide range, and be aggressive in general. Alot of bad players are still quite passive at this stage and let you keep stealing till they find a good hand.

If blinds arent too high then instead of pushing preflop you can raise 2.5-3 times the blinds preflop but still continuation bet and try to take most pots on the flop. Because there isnt much room to play pots with the stack sizes here, most players wont put in any chips unless they hit the flop and you can steal alot of pots just by being agressive.

With high blinds and a HU match its always going to be a crapshoot, but being agressive is definately key to giving yourself an edge I think, which adds up after alot of games.
 
Hypnotik1 said:
Anyone care to share their strategy in 'Heads Up' play?

Its where I really struggle....I like to play Sit n Go's and most of the time i finish in the top 3 but i rarely win. I just really suck head up. I seems to me, especially when playing a real aggressive player, that its just a crap shoot.

So how do yall play?
Click to expand...

If you run into an aggressive player, you are probably screwed. Ath tat point, it is largely am atter of who starts with more chips. I excel at the HU portion of the SNG because I rarely run into an aggressive player. People play so passively that I just run them over.
When I run into someone who plays like I do, I curse and do the best I can. If you or tyour opponent are at or below ten big blinds, you should probably be moving all in anytime you play a hand.

Also, limping in HU play is not a good play.
 
Hmmm....

Great advice....I tried it out a few games and it def makes a diff....

It also helps if i keep this mind set where im already down to the final 2...and the pots are 20, 30, 50 ...So ive already won a good chunk of change....So screw it...go balls to wall!! %)
 
AAARGH!

I finished deep (final 4 tables) out of 1482 players in the 35K guarantee. How many times do I have to make the top 2 % of the field before I win one of these damn things?

I busted out on a dumb hand too, falling for the AA limp under the gun.
 
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I am usually cautious also. I checked in the BB with KJ. The button had limped also. Flop came King rag rag and by the time I bet and the UTG limper raised, I thought I was pot committed. I started the hand short stacked and I didn't feel like waiting any more. Overall it was a very annoying session with a lot of frustrating losses. But it is still a huge month.
 
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