sixpartseven
Bluelight Crew
Yes. p-glycoprotein pumps push it back out once it does cross, but small amounts can remain.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | Tryptamino
A NEW Thought about Loperamide (not the same old debate)
- Thread starter daddysgone
- Start date
Yes. p-glycoprotein pumps push it back out once it does cross, but small amounts can remain.
Lustmord
Bluelighter
sixpartseven
Bluelight Crew
I thought it was a joke at first, but then wasn't sure, so I just answered it anyway. Sorry.
emjay
Bluelighter
sixpartseven
Bluelight Crew
^ That's old news, man. Plus, no one without sophisticated lab equipment and materials will be able to do that.
emjay
Bluelighter
daddysgone
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2007
- Messages
- 1,114
This whole thread is old news
Yes unfortunately it has TURNED into old news. Im the one who created this thread and really hoped it would not devolve into the old BBB debate (hence my title of this thread)...oh well.
If you read my first post, you will see that i really did make an honest attempt to discuss this subject from an entirely different angle, but for whatever reason, there has been no discussion along the lines i hoped, and instead this whole thread became loperamized. Well...at least a new term has been invented which might catch on.
Lustmord
Bluelighter
Even if it wasn't old news, it seems very impractical.
Thats just my opinion.
Thats just my opinion.
drug struggler
Bluelighter
I think its totally my fault... I'm the one that started off topic asking questions about my positive experience regarding wd relief... I'm sorry daddysgone! I'll tell you though, I did get some positive feedback and affirmation, if that makes you feel any better
And at least I'm talking opiate wd relief, not trying to get high off the shit stoppers, lol
qwe
Bluelight Crew
could be psychological. as in: all peripheral symtoms of w/d reversed --> reactions in the brain to the now beautiful signals coming in, "must have taken an opiate" --> psychological relief of central symptoms
qwe
Bluelight Crew
i'd say that the thread didn't go far because normal people can't get ahold of methylhex-whatever that was called
Komatose
Bluelighter
with as much feedback about it actually helping with wd's. If I am ever sick and the grocery store is the only dope spot, then I think it's worth a try. Maybe not 96 pills or something outrageous like that. But I would take 16 mg in hopes it would curb my wd symptoms. When that time actually comes I will post back...
sixpartseven
Bluelight Crew
emjay
Bluelighter
It's not impossible.
Since you seem to have noticed that the study about polysorbate 80 coated loperamide was old, I expect you're aware of the study that showed that not only can a placebo have opioid-like analgesic effects, but that naloxone secretly co-administered BLOCKS those effects, which would strongly suggest that a psychological belief that something will work can induce physical changes (in this case it would appear to be increased endorphins.)
sixpartseven
Bluelight Crew
I've taken Loperamide tons of times; I used it to quit Suboxone. There is no way placebo made me not feel the withdrawal of coming off of 2mg of Suboxone for 2 months. Before I discovered that Loperamide works for withdrawals, the withdrawal off 2mg of Suboxone was so severe that I could barely make it to the 24 hour mark after my last dose. The withdrawal was intense and painful, something that placebo could not have counteracted.
I know the difference between placebo and actual effects. You can't sit here and tell me I quit 2mg of Suboxone with the assistance of placebo, especially when I didn't feel a single withdrawal symptom those entire 2 months, EXCEPT for when it was time to re-dose the Loperamide.
The times I did take high-dose Loperamide, there were definitely effects. Nystagums, pinned pupils, scratchy throat, mild-sedation, mild-warmth. When I took it in lower doses as a withdrawal aid, it didn't get me "high" - it never did, which further discounts placebo because if it was placebo, I wouldn't notice the very unique effects that Loperamide provides; instead, I would trick myself into thinking it was a regular opiate high because my mind wouldn't know what the specific effects of Loperamide should be - but it did eliminate EVERY withdrawal symptom, making me feel completely normal. Placebo is not going to do that for withdrawal. If it did, placebo-therapy would be a very successful method for detox, and obviously since it isn't used, it wasn't placebo that got me off Suboxone.
Loperamide DOES cross the BBB, so it's not placebo because it IS active in the CNS.
Plus, placebo is not effective long term. There is no possible way that placebo worked as a withdrawal aid, especially for the 2 months I used it to get me off Suboxone. It may have worked for a while, but eventually the person realizes it's placebo and it no longer works.
It's ridiculous and idiotic that people are going to sit here and discount other people's experiences, telling me/them that I don't know what I experienced when they have no personal experience with it themselves. The problem is, it doesn't work for everyone, so when people here others say that it didn't work, they immediately discredit the others, assuming that because it didn't work for someone else, it shouldn't work for anyone. It's been shown in many other Loperamide threads that it does not work for everyone. The people it does work just have different body chemistry than others, and that's why it's hit and miss among people who try it.
I know the difference between placebo and actual effects. You can't sit here and tell me I quit 2mg of Suboxone with the assistance of placebo, especially when I didn't feel a single withdrawal symptom those entire 2 months, EXCEPT for when it was time to re-dose the Loperamide.
The times I did take high-dose Loperamide, there were definitely effects. Nystagums, pinned pupils, scratchy throat, mild-sedation, mild-warmth. When I took it in lower doses as a withdrawal aid, it didn't get me "high" - it never did, which further discounts placebo because if it was placebo, I wouldn't notice the very unique effects that Loperamide provides; instead, I would trick myself into thinking it was a regular opiate high because my mind wouldn't know what the specific effects of Loperamide should be - but it did eliminate EVERY withdrawal symptom, making me feel completely normal. Placebo is not going to do that for withdrawal. If it did, placebo-therapy would be a very successful method for detox, and obviously since it isn't used, it wasn't placebo that got me off Suboxone.
Loperamide DOES cross the BBB, so it's not placebo because it IS active in the CNS.
Plus, placebo is not effective long term. There is no possible way that placebo worked as a withdrawal aid, especially for the 2 months I used it to get me off Suboxone. It may have worked for a while, but eventually the person realizes it's placebo and it no longer works.
It's ridiculous and idiotic that people are going to sit here and discount other people's experiences, telling me/them that I don't know what I experienced when they have no personal experience with it themselves. The problem is, it doesn't work for everyone, so when people here others say that it didn't work, they immediately discredit the others, assuming that because it didn't work for someone else, it shouldn't work for anyone. It's been shown in many other Loperamide threads that it does not work for everyone. The people it does work just have different body chemistry than others, and that's why it's hit and miss among people who try it.
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Ds
Bluelight Crew
I've taken this to stop the H withdrawals. Took about 20mg's to begin with, I noticed that it did help with a lot of the body achy feeling, I did get a stomach ace with it, and made me Guzzle the fuck out of water, like drank 4 huge Gatorade bottles when working outside, (Cutting grass n digging holes).
Luckily It only took me 3 days to detox from the physical withdrawals. I'd recommend it, You wont shit for a few day's, but it's better than splurging $300 for suboxone, or $14 for a day methadone.
Luckily It only took me 3 days to detox from the physical withdrawals. I'd recommend it, You wont shit for a few day's, but it's better than splurging $300 for suboxone, or $14 for a day methadone.
sixpartseven
Bluelight Crew
Yeah, it seriously dehydrates you. My mouth gets incredibly dry from it.
If it were placebo, the unique effects like that wouldn't be there. It would just feel like you took any other opiate since your brain just sees it is taking an opiate. It wouldn't have such specific effects if it was only placebo.
If it were placebo, the unique effects like that wouldn't be there. It would just feel like you took any other opiate since your brain just sees it is taking an opiate. It wouldn't have such specific effects if it was only placebo.
emjay
Bluelighter
Buddy I'm not sure you understand what I meant. Because the study I referred to showed that in the case of opioids, there is no distinguishing between placebo and "actual effects". It showed that placebo causes your brain to release more "actual" endogenous opioids, generating "actual" opioid effects.
But I'm not saying what you experienced was placebo. I merely said it's not impossible. In fact I think it's likely that loperamide was crossing the BBB in significant enough quantities for you.
No need to get so defensive... Nobody's discounting your personal accounts, merely suggesting alternatives. But, ESPECIALLY on a topic as perception-dependent as placebos, anecdotal accounts don't count for much anyways.
sixpartseven
Bluelight Crew
Ok, I misunderstood. I apologize. I thought you were just trying to say that what I felt was placebo.
I agree, it's possible that it is placebo for some people, but I know that in my case, it wasn't.
No, anecdotal experiences don't count for much; I know that, especially with Loperamide, which is why I said it's hit and miss and works for some but not others. Some people don't feel anything from it, but there is still a group of people that it does work for, and it works well. I wish I could find it, but in one Loperamide thread, someone posted a study saying genetic differences are the probably cause for the activity of Loperamide in some people, but not in others.
I agree, it's possible that it is placebo for some people, but I know that in my case, it wasn't.
No, anecdotal experiences don't count for much; I know that, especially with Loperamide, which is why I said it's hit and miss and works for some but not others. Some people don't feel anything from it, but there is still a group of people that it does work for, and it works well. I wish I could find it, but in one Loperamide thread, someone posted a study saying genetic differences are the probably cause for the activity of Loperamide in some people, but not in others.
Ds
Bluelight Crew
Yeah, I guess it's in your mind set. If your taking it to stop withdrawals it will work. On the other hand if your taking it to use as a placebo to tide you over till you get your next fix it wont really work. I can understand that if you take high amounts of Loperamide it will give you a buzz. Even though I was taking it for withdrawals I noticed a small opoiod-like buzz. Nothing to write a topic about.