Opioids 7OH/pseudoindoxyl causing precipitated withdrawal from fentanyl?

[aspiringchemist]

I’m currently dependent on 1-1.5g of street fentanyl daily and haven been for about 10 months; I’ve been dependent on opioids for the past decade.

Every time I try to use 7OH and mitragynine pseudoindoxyl they seem to work initially, causing a building high feeling until about the 45 minute mark at which point I begin to experience withdrawal symptoms that don’t get better until I use more fentanyl, or at least a full agonist. This happens every time I try them; I’ve dosed anywhere from 50mg - 200mg and in varying combinations/quantities of 7OH to pseudo.

I read online, though don’t know if it’s true, that pseudoindoxyl has a binding affinity that rivales fentanyl, giving it the ability to displace fentanyl from the receptor site, and replacing it with a less efficacious or less potent opioid, which in turn results in the user experiencing precipitated withdrawal. Does anyone know if there is any validity to this?

I have read so many reports, both here and on reddit, of people successfully using kratom or these high potency extracts to aid in fentanyl withdrawal and it just baffles me because every time I try, the same thing happens. It feels really good, like a legit opioid high is building for 45 minutes and then without fail at the 45 minute mark I begin to get hot/cold flashes, sweating, shaking, intense anxiety etc. Certainly feels like opioid withdrawal and is relieved by using more fentanyl.

Why do so many fentanyl dependent people have a positive experience with it while I seem to get sick? I was a heavy kratom user from 2014-2024, getting up to 120gpd plus opms so I know it’s not that my body doesn’t interact well with kratom.

Thanks!

 

[headj8]

im literally going thru the exact same thing right now today. I was using the Heat One Fifties Pseudo+ (supposedly its MGM15 and pseudoindoxyl) in Georgia the last few months after being clean from all opiates several years. When this 7oh/ pseudo/ mgm15 federal ban rolled around all the local stores pulled the stuff off the shelves and I couldn't find it anywhere. I stocked up for the ban but that only lasted a few weeks. A week ago today (August 26) I found a local store that had some cheap brand pseudo and bought it and experienced enough relief to get me thru work. I also had ordered a few grams of 7oh from a vendor online even though I don't have any experience with 7oh and the 7oh barely even touched the WDs from the mom/ pseudo. I broke down and reached out to a friend that I knew could find me some fent on the street and used .5 gram over the course of a few days I small amounts to battle the wds and of course it worked well. I did not want to fall back into being on dope again, especially after being sober and in recovery for a long time so I said fuck this im not getting more and I went to the one store that I knew had some pseudo still in stock. Bought two packs and proceeded to take both at the same time bc I was trying to get myself well enough to go to work and drove away from the store. 15 mins later I had to pull over on the side of the road at a gas station bc I started feeling weird, mind you I was already withdrawing some but this was different. About two minutes go by after parking at the gas station and I felt like my body had been turned inside out, it was the most insanely painful and scary feeling I've ever had in my entire life, I thought I was dying. Id been narcaned before in the past and that is the closest thing I can compare to how I felt earlier today. The only conclusion I could come up with was that the pseudo caused me to go into full blown precipitated withdrawal for about 3 hours, I panicked and it scared me so much that I almost said fuck it and went to the hospital but I decided not to. The only thing that started to make it go away was to use more fentanyl which I do not want to do. I couldn't believe it but that's the only thing I can think could cause that to happen. Point being, I've now been back using miniscule amounts of fentanyl the last 6 days and I want no part of that life anymore. I found a vendor online today selling mgm15 tabs and powder and ordered a bunch of it to be shipped over night and im praying that will help relieve whatever the hell is going on. I do have 15 or more Suboxone strips at home and can get more from my provider I just can't get myself to wait long enough to start taking it because work has been so stressful and I cannot be sick whatsoever for my job. Sorry if all of that was rambled im not myself right now but I've been digging online to see if anyone else Is having PWD like effects from taking pseudo or 7oh trying to come off of fent. Hope you have found a solution also.

 

[Tommy1988]

Sounds like the 7oh just doesn't have the same "hold" that street fent does. Those who have been doing illicit fent long enough, know different batches have different "hold times" before you start feeling those WD symptoms.

 

[puke]

Fent wds sounds brutal. It's that much worse than 7oh huh?

 

[aspiringchemist]

This is exactly my experience man. It’s insane. It feels like suboxone induced PW every single time I use it for fent withdrawal. I’ve read mixed reports, lots of people saying they use 7OH and pseudo for fent withdrawal and a few saying they experience PW. I suspect 7OH binds strongly, strong enough to displace fentanyl, but doesn’t activate to nearly the same degree, leaving us in PW.

I’ve been using heroin to try and get away from fent for the past 10 days. I’m curious if/when 7OH and pseudo will work for me. Out of curiosity I bought an old school OPMS gold shot the other day and it did the same thing, although not as quickly or intensely.

It really sucks because I used regular kratom for 10 years, interchangeably with opioids without issue. I have a shitload of 7OH and pseudo that I thought I was going to use to fall back on during withdrawal and now it feels useless. I’m scared to take it. I’ve tried doses ranging from 50mg - 400mg, different amounts of pseudo/7oh.

I wonder if taking a break from fent by using traditional opiates will allow my receptors to heal enough (unregulate) to a point that these alkaloids can be felt.

And ya to the other poster, fent withdrawal is an entirely different beast. It has all the hallmarks of opioid withdrawal but it’s exaggerated to an extreme. It happens very quickly and it’s very debilitating. I also suffer from residual psychotic symptoms from a drug induced break some years ago and it exacerbates my hallucinations to an unacceptable degree.

 

[Ozymandeus]

Sure. All of these kratom alkaloids also attach as MOR antagonists. They are not pure partial agonists like bupe. A lot of people don't know that apparently. I've heard of them causing mass cross tolerance but I would not be surprised at all if they might cause some precip withdrawal from harder stuff like fent.

Once did some H and then was more fucked up from high dose pseudo. Then tried H again after and it did even less.

Edit: also if you have prior tolerance to pseudo this effect will be greatly magnified.