Opioids 7oh and suboxone

[Exs95]

You can do it. I know you can handle it

Thank you

I don't have a choice but to quit - Just would like to soften the landing anyway I can

 

[Exs95]

Be careful, I'm not on subs but I've tried switching after heavy 7 binges (700-1000mg) a day and subs didn't help the withdraw what so fucking ever. Not a lick. It worked for me once when I was at a low dose of 7 and could get the old school sub tabs and snorted it but the strips did fuck all for me at high doses of 7

How long did you wait to try the subs?
I would love to just do a rapid sub taper and be done with it all,
but looks like Kratom leaf (which I've never had an issue with around 10g a day) is my best option..

also you said you were taking 80g a day, Mitra converts to 7oh in the body just not in the amounts we're getting with the extracts - but at 80gpd I'm sure you were getting at-least a couple mg's.. so if you think that was brutal I can't imagine what 1000mg a day of 7oh would do to you

 

[idfka]

You too. I like your cat.

I don’t have any scientific evidence. Nothing peer reviewed.

But I do have my experience.

I noticed that even raw leaf kratom broke through suboxone. At the very least could be taken alongside kratom.

But you can actually feel 7oh strong while
On suboxone. Which means that it’s displacing the blockade effect on the receptor.

So whether buprenorphine
Or naloxone is responsible for the blockade effect, being able to feel 7oh is indicative that 7oh has a higher affinity for the receptor site than either bupe or naloxone. Definitely not the greatest scientific process in the world.

“If I take suboxone regularly, and use/feel 7oh, then 7oh must be breaking through the blockade, therefore 7oh must have a higher affinity for the site than either buprenorphine or naloxone.”

Possible interaction at other sites could explain this as well. When I switch from 7 to subs i still feel sick. Not oh im not high anymore, I mean withdrawal.

 

[Opana313]

I think it's something of the sort of hey if you have your regular sub dose already built up in your system "hopefully not too high"..then you can take 7oh and feel something. I think this is similar to fentanyl, or tramadol..they will bust through that bupe wall as well..just as my oxy does but then again I KNOW I am still wasting a great amount, and I know that my sub dose is down to .5..so if im on day 2 of just using oxy..im going to feel it a bit better and so on but eventually tolerance plays it's roll then that next morning of hell it's either .5-1mg bupe or half or full tab of 70h...or both.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

go for what? I'm already addicted to it, did you even read the post?

and what do you mean Suboxone won't work? even if I were to go 2-3 days without? I have a single 8mg strip but honestly I think I'm just going to end up taking some Lyrica along with my RX'd Diazepam at a higher dose few a few days with Kratom Leaf and MIT extract and Carispordol on the worst nights + Mitrazpine I'm perscribed

Subs flat out don't work for a large majority of people coming off of 7. Don't ask me why bc Idk but even up to 16mg of subs did nothing for my withdraw from 7 it was as if I took nothing. MIT extracts and plain leaf worked though but was still uncomfortable

 

[Kurt Cobain]

How long did you wait to try the subs?
I would love to just do a rapid sub taper and be done with it all,
but looks like Kratom leaf (which I've never had an issue with around 10g a day) is my best option..

also you said you were taking 80g a day, Mitra converts to 7oh in the body just not in the amounts we're getting with the extracts - but at 80gpd I'm sure you were getting at-least a couple mg's.. so if you think that was brutal I can't imagine what 1000mg a day of 7oh would do to you

I was already at 1000 mg of 7 the withdraw was easier than plain leaf. I also don't take 80gpd of leaf anymore. Good luck with your switch to subs though hopefully it works for you but plenty of people put there will tell you the switch doesn't work

 

[Exs95]

I was already at 1000 mg of 7 the withdraw was easier than plain leaf. I also don't take 80gpd of leaf anymore. Good luck with your switch to subs though hopefully it works for you but plenty of people put there will tell you the switch doesn't work

well everyone is apprently different.. I never have taken more than 10gs of Leaf, no way my body would be able to tolerate 80gs that is insane lol as is 1000mg of 7oh..

 

[Exs95]

Possible interaction at other sites could explain this as well. When I switch from 7 to subs i still feel sick. Not oh im not high anymore, I mean withdrawal.

How long are you waiting to take the sub?? I feel like you have to wait a good bit of time.. if your powder/ tabs contain Psuedo you'll have to wait longer due to Psuedos long duration compared to 7
and a lot of tabs/powder also contain MIT which has a long duration.. so I feel like you would need to switch to a high purity 7oh powder and then make the jump when you start to feel intense WD.

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

I chalked it up to dirty tabs or powder bc some brands didn't appear to fuck with me like that but a lot of them did. I believe it's either dirty left over solvents causing it or 7oh itself has some pretty severe vascioconstrictive effects. What are your thoughts on that?

I’m wondering too if it has something to do with solvents as well … I think??, but it definitely freaks me out a bit. I’ve been on tons of pain meds & shit in my life but never had that happen other than on 7, and now you and this other girl I heard say the same thing.

Sorry I didn’t get back to you when you messaged me this. As embarrassing as it is to say I relapsed after being off for a whole month. Only for four days but feeling a bit of withdrawals and shame already. Going to have to power through this. I’m pretty mad at myself for it.

Lol hope any of my ramble made sense here and that you are doing well

 

[Kurt Cobain]

You'll be alright especially if you can get some tramadol like u said else where, wish I could hah anyway we all relapse that doesn't matter what does matter is that you get back tf up. It's either solvents though or 7oh has other mechanisms of action that are unknown. Tbh I felt like it effected my gaba receptors bc I've never had an opiate give me such bad anxiety let alone only an hour agyer last dose. I'm all over the place today and shaky

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

You'll be alright especially if you can get some tramadol like u said else where, wish I could hah anyway we all relapse that doesn't matter what does matter is that you get back tf up. It's either solvents though or 7oh has other mechanisms of action that are unknown. Tbh I felt like it effected my gaba receptors bc I've never had an opiate give me such bad anxiety let alone only an hour agyer last dose. I'm all over the place today and shaky

Aw thank you so much
I hope you’re doing alright as I’m writing this amigo
* & hell yea I’ve popped tabs before then straight after gotten panic attacks & had to take a benzo and deep breaths .. that’s never happened to me on any other opioids

 

[drewbocop]

Real pseudo is difficult to find these days, though. Always has been, actually. I only know of one source. A lot of shit out there that says it has pseudo isn't actually pseudo but actually 7-OH analogs like 11-Cl-7-OH or 11-Br-7-OH, because a lot of these COA labs can't properly identify pseudoindoxyl on GC/MS tests.

Well that's fuckin' scary. Thanks for all the information. Wish I would have had it before I got strung out on obnoxious amounts of powder. It was a tough journey going from 800mg/day to my current 60mg at first. If it weren't for plain leaf and MIT giving it some legs, I don't think I would have gotten out without bupe. The acutes at those high doses were gnarly, shockingly so.

It's either solvents though or 7oh has other mechanisms of action that are unknown. Tbh I felt like it effected my gaba receptors bc I've never had an opiate give me such bad anxiety let alone only an hour agyer last dose. I'm all over the place today and shaky

This was my experience as well. Eventually I was just having chronic anxiety and panic. It was not possible to continue on that way.

 

[Deleted member 585202]

Yeah high doses of 7oh will give me spontaneous anxiety attacks that come out of nowhere. Quite unusual. But they were brief and transitory. I've always wondered if this was due to a2 agonism.

It was a tough journey going from 800mg/day to my current 60mg at first. If it weren't for plain leaf and MIT giving it some legs, I don't think I would have gotten out without bupe.

What type of doses/timing of regular mit/leaf did you use to taper down to 60mg? How long did it take?

Just curious.

The acutes at those high doses were gnarly, shockingly so.

They really are astoundingly bad. Short duration, but shockingly bad.

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

The acutes at those high doses were gnarly, shockingly so.

They really are astoundingly bad. Short duration, but shockingly bad.

Hell yea when I CT’d from daily 700 mg plus 7oh with pseudo I was legit flopping around like a fish it was kinda crazy

 

[Deleted member 585202]

legit flopping around like a fish it was kinda crazy

Funny you say that, I've literally used this same phrase to describe it to myself.

The last time I was detoxing in the hospital (was detoxing also from booze), it was a big problem because I was flopping around in bed and kept tearing out the IV they had in my arm. They had to redo my IV 6 times over 2 days because I kept tearing it out unintentionally, even with all the ativan and hydroxyzine and shit they were giving me, I was literally flopping around like a fish in this hospital bed. All while these poor med students were forced to watch as I was on suicidal watch.

It's impossible to sit still in acute 7oh withdrawal, and that's honestly the worst symptom for me. No amount of mental fortitude will control your body. I can deal with the sickness, but fuck man, that restlessness is beyond insane really bad shit. Scares me.

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

Funny you say that, I've literally used this same phrase to describe it to myself.

The last time I was detoxing in the hospital (was detoxing also from booze), it was a big problem because I was flopping around in bed and kept tearing out the IV they had in my arm. They had to redo my IV 6 times over 2 days because I kept tearing it out unintentionally, even with all the ativan and hydroxyzine and shit they were giving me, I was literally flopping around like a fish in this hospital bed. All while these poor med students were forced to watch as I was on suicidal watch.

It's impossible to sit still in acute 7oh withdrawal, and that's honestly the worst symptom for me. No amount of mental fortitude will control your body. I can deal with the sickness, but fuck man, that restlessness is beyond insane really bad shit. Scares me.

Wow yea I totally feel you, when I was kicking those high amounts I also ran out of Xanax … so was withdrawing from Xans too. I was taking a bunch of Xanax with the 7 & pseudo because in order to stay out of withdrawal from 7 I had to take high amounts … but the high doses to get me out of withdrawal were simultaneously giving me panic attacks. But yea damn, sounds like we kind of went through the same shit. I had a little bit of clonazepam & hydroxyzine … but yea same like you were saying with the Ativan. I don’t know, I also kinda wonder if hydroxyzine makes RLS worse.

I felt so guilty when I was getting up and down and flopping around loosing my mind because I looked over at my cat and he looked so innocent and worried about me. Plus that whole sleep deprivation on the verge of psychosis.

You’d think I’d learn my lesson. Maybe I will

lol my bad I’m for sure rambling

Bendiciones
Abrazos

 

[SuperPsych]

I also kinda wonder if hydroxyzine makes RLS worse.

Other antihistamines such as diphenhydramine and doxylamine makes RLS worse during opioid WD for a lot of people, so it stands to reason that hydroxyzine can as well. Although hydroxyzine is pretty effective at handling anxiety. It won't stop a panic attack but it can really help out background anxiety and general anxiety. I carry one in my pocket when I go on walks so I can pop it if I find that my mind is working itself into an anxious feedback loop. Its pretty good at slowing that down.

I've taken diphenhydramine and hydroxyzine while in kratom WD before and I personally didn't notice the RLS getting worse, but it was already bad at that point so I don't know if I would have noticed it getting worse. My rule of thumb is to avoid antihistamines while in opioid withdrawal as much as possible and only save them as a last resort. I've only taken them out of desperation when I haven't been able to sleep and had no gabapentin/pregabalin or benzos. The antihistamines never seem to do what I want them to do while in opioid WD, which is knocking me out.

Edit: I forgot to add, my roommate gets RLS from diphenhydramine. He's currently taking kratom everyday but he initially reported to me that DPH gave him RLS before he ever started the kratom. So I guess that RLSs can be a side-effect of antihistamines regardless of if a person is opioid dependent or not. My roommate was the first time I had ever heard of it though

 

[Kurt Cobain]

Aw thank you so much
I hope you’re doing alright as I’m writing this amigo
* & hell yea I’ve popped tabs before then straight after gotten panic attacks & had to take a benzo and deep breaths .. that’s never happened to me on any other opioids

Ya the panic attacks were weird asf, could be because it's such a rush at first and a sharp fast comedown or maybe due to 7s stimulant profile or maybe it's a gaba reaction we don't know about yet or again solvents idk it didn't happen everytime but most. I think I gave myself benzo wd trying to get off the shit though. I took low dose Valium on and off for two weeks taking a couple 2-3 day breaks in there but I guess that wasn't enough which is crazy. I never really had benzo wd but I haven't done anything other than kratom and kratom extracts. I did cut the extracts in attampet to make getting off kratom later easier but I've never had an issue cutting extracts and the powder I got this time was much weaker than before. Idk I just feel like im back in withdraw randomly again and idk why really

 

[Kurt Cobain]

Ya the panic attacks were weird asf, could be because it's such a rush at first and a sharp fast comedown or maybe due to 7s stimulant profile or maybe it's a gaba reaction we don't know about yet or again solvents idk it didn't happen everytime but most. I think I gave myself benzo wd trying to get off the shit though. I took low dose Valium on and off for two weeks taking a couple 2-3 day breaks in there but I guess that wasn't enough which is crazy. I never really had benzo wd but I haven't done anything other than kratom and kratom extracts. I did cut the extracts in attampet to make getting off kratom later easier but I've never had an issue cutting extracts and the powder I got this time was much weaker than before. Idk I just feel like im back in withdraw randomly again and idk why really

Also almost out of gabapentin so fuck me I got work tomorrow

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

Other antihistamines such as diphenhydramine and doxylamine makes RLS worse during opioid WD for a lot of people, so it stands to reason that hydroxyzine can as well. Although hydroxyzine is pretty effective at handling anxiety. It won't stop a panic attack but it can really help out background anxiety and general anxiety. I carry one in my pocket when I go on walks so I can pop it if I find that my mind is working itself into an anxious feedback loop. Its pretty good at slowing that down.

I've taken diphenhydramine and hydroxyzine while in kratom WD before and I personally didn't notice the RLS getting worse, but it was already bad at that point so I don't know if I would have noticed it getting worse. My rule of thumb is to avoid antihistamines while in opioid withdrawal as much as possible and only save them as a last resort. I've only taken them out of desperation when I haven't been able to sleep and had no gabapentin/pregabalin or benzos. The antihistamines never seem to do what I want them to do while in opioid WD, which is knocking me out.

Edit: I forgot to add, my roommate gets RLS from diphenhydramine. He's currently taking kratom everyday but he initially reported to me that DPH gave him RLS before he ever started the kratom. So I guess that RLSs can be a side-effect of antihistamines regardless of if a person is opioid dependent or not. My roommate was the first time I had ever heard of it though

That’s good to know how you take them like that when you go on walks and helps with anxiety and thought loops. I’m prescribed hydroxyzine as one of my meds for PTSD but always forget to take it unless I’m running out of other meds or withdrawal … lol maybe I should actually take it like how you’re saying.

Yea I guess it’s kind of hard to tell when having crazy RLS or ‘restless whole body’ what’s making it better or worse sometimes.

But yea thanks for giving me that idea to go for a walk and keep a Hydroxyzine on me, sounded kinda relaxing the way you wrote it