Opioids 7oh and suboxone

[Skorpio]

@Skorpio do you think its plausible kratom alkaloids and bupe are noncompetitive and both can attach to the same receptor? And thanks for the knowledge bomb!

That’s something I was wondering when I was typing up the handwavey bit of my post, but I couldn’t find enough evidence to justify actually saying it.

Opioids do bind at different positions of the ligand binding pocket, but I can’t say if buprenorphine and kratom alkaloids comfortably fit in together. It is a nice explanation, but currently lacking in evidence (I’d want to see that either they bind at really different positions, or better yet, a co-crystal of the mu receptor bound to both ligands simultaneously, or a binding curve between the two compounds that shows additive behavior).

Hope you start feeling better soon dude. I’m about to deal with leaving 7OH behind after a few months averaging 3 14 mg tablets, I’m currently half assing a taper, but idk how far it’s gonna get before I’m out. Debating getting leaf powder to stretch out things, or just to deal with it and suffer for a bit.

 

[Quasimoto]

Hope you start feeling better soon dude.

I am! Thank you. Apart from a few very minor relapses the first week, I've been sober for 2 weeks, and this is the largest period of total abstinence I've had in over 15 years

I was using like 8g of kratom powder, 300mg of 7oh, and 50mg of pseudo per day. My tolerance was insane, I hardly got any effect at all at that point and needed that much just to feel baseline.

After leaving the hospital I started on subs. I specifically asked for only 2mg, which I quickly regretted and realized I needed at least 4mg. It took 5 days to adjust to 2mg of bupe, was still having significant withdrawal for 5 days. But now I feel OK.

I’m about to deal with leaving 7OH behind after a few months averaging 3 14 mg tablets, I’m currently half assing a taper, but idk how far it’s gonna get before I’m out. Debating getting leaf powder to stretch out things, or just to deal with it and suffer for a bibit.

About 2 years ago I jumped off of ~50mg of 7oh by switching to regular mit extracts. Fairly easy and painless, but still wasn't fun.

Probably also doable with powder, but powder gives me too many side effects in large doses compared to extracts due to all the other alkaloids found in regular powder kratom. Headaches, dehydration, excessive urination, liver pain, etc. I've also experienced psychosis from extremely high doses of powder many years ago. These days my body can't handle more than 10g per day.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

I was reading the mu-2 receptor is more (than popular mu1 belief) when it comes to euphoria? Thoughts. (don't sidetrack though relate it to this)

 

[pnillyg]

What do we think would be the “easiest” thing to taper/cold turkey… 7-oh, psudo, or powder?

 

[Quasimoto]

What do we think would be the “easiest” thing to taper/cold turkey… 7-oh, psudo, or powder?

Powder > 7oh > pseudo

 

[pnillyg]

Powder > 7oh > pseudo

Ok word, and in comparison to regular opioids ex: powder = oxy, 7oh = dilated or something like that? Not sure if it even translates

 

[Quasimoto]

Ok word, and in comparison to regular opioids ex: powder = oxy, 7oh = dilated or something like that? Not sure if it even translates

Somewhat. Pseudo is about 2x more potent by dose than 7oh. More stimulating as well. But it also lacks the warmth that 7oh provides. It feels a bit cold and mechanical by itself.

I always preferred combining them to get the best effect.

 

[aesthetic.addict]

So as the title suggests I had a question about 7oh and suboxone. My question is why doesn't suboxone block 7oh? Just to be clear I'm not a suboxone maintenance patient but I have bounced between the two a fair bit of times at this point and even with larger doses of subs over the course of say a week maybe two I've noticed that suboxone doesn't really block the 7oh at all and I'm just curious as to why? Perhaps bevause they're both partial agonist or maybe something else. I get all the full effects of the 7oh meanwhile at the same dose of subs over that time frame I could do 150mg of real roxycontin and not feel fuck all aside from a slight and I mean slight shift in vision IE things seem slightly brighter but duller at the same time, has anybody else noticed this with these two substances. P. S. For reference the 7oh I'm taking is roughly 97% pure 7oh powder so I don't think the argument of oh it's just the other alkaloids from kratom being left in the mix is the answer here. Cheers and open to any feed back or first hand experiences

How high dose of buprenorphine were you on when you couldn't feel that dose of oxys? Was it the bupe pills or the shot? How did you take the oxys?

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

You want a second opinion on this but my feeling is yes it is because they are both partial agonists. Tramadol and bupe? (popular discussion same idea both partial agonists) *that or i am missing the real idea*

 

[ryax]

compared to the 0.5 to 2mg of bupe i was taking, 8 to 10mg of 7oh was significantly stronger in terms of actual histamine release .

to me, low dose bupe has a great oxy - like high, but you do not get too much of a itchy - histamine release . (high dose bupe has no real high just sedation)

where as 7oh is like if codeine and oxy had a baby. pain killing effects & strength of oxy + extreme histamine release that is greater than oxy or hydrocodone.

i'd keep using it, but it causes a rediculous histamine release & somehow fucks up my ear. literally. evertime i use 7oh, my ears become extremely sensitive and painful to the point where it is not worth it .

if you're at a low enough bupe (1mg orless for me)
you could take a bupe in the morning and in the evening still get the full effect from 7oh in the evening or whenever you need it. you could probably even use them both at the same time if you really wanted to if you're careful with your dosages.

to me, 10mg of 7oh is = to 30mg of oxy . just the duration is short and ends abruptly instead of gradually fading like a normal medication. this will cause you to want to compulsively redose

 

[Quasimoto]

i'd keep using it, but it causes a rediculous histamine release & somehow fucks up my ear. literally. evertime i use 7oh, my ears become extremely sensitive and painful to the point where it is not worth it .

I get this too from kratom alkaloids, especially pseudo and to a lesser extent 7oh, but also mitragynine itself.

Extreme auditory sensitivity, any sort of sudden unexpected sound causes me to jump or even get brain zaps. Unpleasant.

In high doses, pseudo actually makes my inner ear spasm, sometimes continuously for several minutes. This has caused some worry, I suspect it may even be able to damage hearing. It also gives me horrible tinnitus.

 

[ryax]

I get this too from kratom alkaloids, especially pseudo and to a lesser extent 7oh.

Extreme auditory sensitivity, any sort of sudden unexpected sound causes me to jump or even get brain zaps. Unpleasant.

In high doses, pseudo actually makes my inner ear spasm, sometimes continuously for several minutes. This has caused some worry, I suspect it may even be able to damage hearing. It also gives me horrible tinnitus.

the ear that i had cut and bleed profusely during a cleaning one time was more susceptible . but yeah. i dont know what the fuck causes that because i do not get it from any other drugs that i know of. bc i had a ear injury previously, each time i take 7oh (which i am not anymore, i actually sent my last batch back for a refund) it takes like a week or 2 weeks for the nerves in & around my ear to heal

i have a funny feeling that it dries out the tubes that go to the ear

 

[Quasimoto]

Traditional opioids can damage hearing, but it's somewhat rare. For example, Rush Limbaugh went deaf after years of abusing oxycodone.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

I honestly don't know if that is a joke or not (damn lack of tone!) If not I must ask did he ever hear anyone else anyways --- if you are at 1mg of bupe 2 even you should be able to break through pretty easy in 12-18 hours. (Depending (IME) mostly on the drugs binding affinity more than anything else). Like hydrocodone no way, fent cuts straight through @ equipotent doses.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

How high dose of buprenorphine were you on when you couldn't feel that dose of oxys? Was it the bupe pills or the shot? How did you take the oxys?

Very low, maybe 2-3mgs per day for a few days when I was trying to kick the 7oh. I'm personally pretty sensitive to subs blocking effect, very small doses block me for a couple days. I get nothing from taking large doses of subs beyond what 2-3mg can produce so I always keep it low cause I'd jusy be wasting it. They were the films though and tbh I know people say there is no difference between brands but these ones suck or suboxone is just terrible at helping with 7oh wd. Currently going through a 7oh kick again worked my way up to damn near a gram a day of 7oh and took some sub yesterday as it was the first day off and it did absolutely fuck all. Gabapentin and 5mg Valium mixed with 1mg Xanax did much much more to help me than the bupe which I think is weird as fuck.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

the ear that i had cut and bleed profusely during a cleaning one time was more susceptible . but yeah. i dont know what the fuck causes that because i do not get it from any other drugs that i know of. bc i had a ear injury previously, each time i take 7oh (which i am not anymore, i actually sent my last batch back for a refund) it takes like a week or 2 weeks for the nerves in & around my ear to heal

i have a funny feeling that it dries out the tubes that go to the ear

I'd agree 7oh damages a lot. It's some nasty shit in high doses for prolonged periods of time like a couple of weeks. It made me breakout like mad, arms and legs going numb constantly and my ears always felt like I was underwater. 7oh can be cool and all but I'd be careful people while you can't OD on it, even high purity powder was extremely hard on my body, even before I got to high doses started having issues when I very first started at doses as low as 60-100mg per day

 

[Kurt Cobain]

I get this too from kratom alkaloids, especially pseudo and to a lesser extent 7oh, but also mitragynine itself.

Extreme auditory sensitivity, any sort of sudden unexpected sound causes me to jump or even get brain zaps. Unpleasant.

In high doses, pseudo actually makes my inner ear spasm, sometimes continuously for several minutes. This has caused some worry, I suspect it may even be able to damage hearing. It also gives me horrible tinnitus.

Ya pseudo and 7oh make me extremely jumpy and twitchy. I felt really close to having a seizure on multiple occasions damn near daily actually. I don't get this effect from MIT at all though

 

[Kurt Cobain]

Ok word, and in comparison to regular opioids ex: powder = oxy, 7oh = dilated or something like that? Not sure if it even translates

It's hard to compare 7oh to any other opiate.

Ok word, and in comparison to regular opioids ex: powder = oxy, 7oh = dilated or something like that? Not sure if it even translates

I wouldn't compare 7oh to Dilaudid. It's pretty stimulating at first like oxy but then fades into a weak nod. It's definetly it's own thing, definetly feels like a kratom alk just a lot more opioidesque and stronger, there's a ceiling effect though like other partial agonists

 

[Kurt Cobain]

That’s something I was wondering when I was typing up the handwavey bit of my post, but I couldn’t find enough evidence to justify actually saying it.

Opioids do bind at different positions of the ligand binding pocket, but I can’t say if buprenorphine and kratom alkaloids comfortably fit in together. It is a nice explanation, but currently lacking in evidence (I’d want to see that either they bind at really different positions, or better yet, a co-crystal of the mu receptor bound to both ligands simultaneously, or a binding curve between the two compounds that shows additive behavior).

Hope you start feeling better soon dude. I’m about to deal with leaving 7OH behind after a few months averaging 3 14 mg tablets, I’m currently half assing a taper, but idk how far it’s gonna get before I’m out. Debating getting leaf powder to stretch out things, or just to deal with it and suffer for a bit.

Good luck man, the first day is the worst but it gets a lot easier fast. The cravings are pretty bad but if you really want to get clean it won't be too bad. Also the powder can help especially since you're at such a low dose but high purity MIT extracts work better. If you want to be off everything, I'd say steer away from kratom and any of its alkaloids and grab some gabapentin if you can

 

[Quasimoto]

Ya pseudo and 7oh make me extremely jumpy and twitchy. I felt really close to having a seizure on multiple occasions damn near daily actually. I don't get this effect from MIT at all though

Yep, a couple of times I had jumps so bad it felt almost exactly like the beginning of audiogenic seizures I've had during alcohol withdrawal. I mostly get it from pseudo, or if I combine high doses of mit with cannabis. I don't get it that much from 7oh, it still occurs but not nearly as bad as the other 2.