rm2x
Bluelighter
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AADD Moderators: andyturbo
4-methylaminorex (4-MAR)
- Thread starter slipknot1
- Start date
Jakeperson
Bluelighter
I find good ice has a lot less side effects than 4-mar personally. So does my best friend.
somuchflippy
Bluelighter
Hmmm 4-Mar. The goods?
Just got a heap of long skinny transparent shards. But they don't taste amphetamine... Kinda hard to explain, its not really bitter at all. I wouldn't have trouble eating 0.5g of this stuff in one go.
Had some other mates see it and they thought it was all cut and we'd been bunked. But then a mate tried it and it was like "nothing he had ever had before"... It was sold as rock though. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
Just snorted a very small amount, like a 25mg line... maybe a little more. It's not like gear/rock that burns your sinus's for like 10mins and gives you that horrible drip for ages... I haven't noticed anything overly euphoric just yet, but i only had it about 10 mins ago.
Anyone else come across this stuff lately in Perth?
Just got a heap of long skinny transparent shards. But they don't taste amphetamine... Kinda hard to explain, its not really bitter at all. I wouldn't have trouble eating 0.5g of this stuff in one go.
Had some other mates see it and they thought it was all cut and we'd been bunked. But then a mate tried it and it was like "nothing he had ever had before"... It was sold as rock though. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
Just snorted a very small amount, like a 25mg line... maybe a little more. It's not like gear/rock that burns your sinus's for like 10mins and gives you that horrible drip for ages... I haven't noticed anything overly euphoric just yet, but i only had it about 10 mins ago.
Anyone else come across this stuff lately in Perth?
pisspotnrock
Bluelighter
hahahaha sounds like you got sold some reallllyyyyy shit gear mate 
Everlasting Reign
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2009
- Messages
- 75
GC/MS or similar analysis is the only way to determine the true identity of a street drug. These "d00d I bought these meth crystals, but i think they are actually 4-mar!!1!" posts are pretty funny to me.
Yeah...
But the effects are completely different. I don't get that dopamine rush like you would expect from meth, you don't 'tweak out' as hard, its a smoother more subtle ride. You never feel as scattered or 'fried' afterwards, the duration is completley differen't.... I never get as manic or crave other stimulants (Nicotine, more meth etc) as you would on meth...
To me its day and night...
But I guess I could be wrong still, there definitely is no way of telling the difference without proper analysis.
footscrazy
Bluelight Crew
^ To say the effects are completely different is just wrong. 4mar has the added serotonergic effect but apart from that they are very similar. I've seen a few people say that they don't get the dopamine boost from 4mar, which means their shit is either highly cut or it's not 4mar. When using regularly, the serotonergic effect is basically non existent and I doubt anyone could tell the difference between methamphetamine and 4mar from effects alone. Regular use will also prove how wrong 'You never feel as scattered or 'fried' afterwards' is...![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Just as an adit - many people will argue that 'speed' and 'ice' are different drugs until they are black and blue, from effects alone. The difference in effect between high quality and low quality meth can be vast, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people who think they've got 4mar, have just gotten much higher quality shit than ever before.
Just as an adit - many people will argue that 'speed' and 'ice' are different drugs until they are black and blue, from effects alone. The difference in effect between high quality and low quality meth can be vast, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people who think they've got 4mar, have just gotten much higher quality shit than ever before.
grugz
Bluelighter
^ u tell em footzy silleh peoples. If you aremt expecting it, its very similar to normal meth, ive had mate who couldnt tell the diff
Shulgin101
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2011
- Messages
- 8
Hi guys,
I’m an AOD worker in Melbourne. A colleague recently asked me about Methylaminorex, as one of her clients has presented with a dependence on this substance and is looking to get off it. I have found some basic information re: the pharmacology of it, legality, etc., but I was interested in hearing whether anybody here has:
(i) come across it (particularly in Melbourne)
(ii) how easy it is to get (the client said only a select Asian gang is making it here – who knows how accurate this information is; though I see the precursors is a Medicine in the US, so it wouldn’t be hard to get large quantities from China, India, etc.)
(iii) personal effects/experiences
(iv) withdrawal experiences
At this stage, I’m telling the worker to treat the drug like methamphetamine, but am open to any suggestions.
Thanking you in advance,
Steve
I’m an AOD worker in Melbourne. A colleague recently asked me about Methylaminorex, as one of her clients has presented with a dependence on this substance and is looking to get off it. I have found some basic information re: the pharmacology of it, legality, etc., but I was interested in hearing whether anybody here has:
(i) come across it (particularly in Melbourne)
(ii) how easy it is to get (the client said only a select Asian gang is making it here – who knows how accurate this information is; though I see the precursors is a Medicine in the US, so it wouldn’t be hard to get large quantities from China, India, etc.)
(iii) personal effects/experiences
(iv) withdrawal experiences
At this stage, I’m telling the worker to treat the drug like methamphetamine, but am open to any suggestions.
Thanking you in advance,
Steve
OND43X
Bluelighter
hey mate when i last snorted some 4mar (what i believe was or at least a simular chem) i remember snorting a tiny amount and it gave me a simular type effect as what really good cocaine does. A rush through my head and it came on in about 5 mins max from memory (much like coke too). I was amazed how little was needed when snortingJust got a heap of long skinny transparent shards. But they don't taste amphetamine... Kinda hard to explain, its not really bitter at all. I wouldn't have trouble eating 0.5g of this stuff in one go.
Had some other mates see it and they thought it was all cut and we'd been bunked. But then a mate tried it and it was like "nothing he had ever had before"... It was sold as rock though. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
Just snorted a very small amount, like a 25mg line... maybe a little more. It's not like gear/rock that burns your sinus's for like 10mins and gives you that horrible drip for ages... I haven't noticed anything overly euphoric just yet, but i only had it about 10 mins ago.
Anyone else come across this stuff lately in Perth?
footscrazy
Bluelight Crew
Have you read this whole thread Shulgin? That'll give you a lot of the info you need.
Availability discussion isn't allowed so lets keep away from this question. 4mar has been found in Melbourne but as always, it's all about who you know.
I'll come back and give my thoughts on this subject when I have a bit more time.
Shulgin101 said:
Availability discussion isn't allowed so lets keep away from this question. 4mar has been found in Melbourne but as always, it's all about who you know.
I'll come back and give my thoughts on this subject when I have a bit more time.
Crankinit
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2007
- Messages
- 6,175
1) Yes, though not in melbourne, but I've been told by reliable sources it does pop up occasionally there too.
2) Not very easy, it's usually just sold as methamphetamine since most users wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I wouldn't be surprised if she was right about only one group producing it.
3) I've used it a few times, both times I ingested it the same way I would methamphetamine (smoked/snorted) and found the effects fairly similar. 4-MAR is very similar to methamphetamine in effects, the major difference is that it's longer lasting and has a slightly different subjective feel, a little more clearheaded maybe. For all intents and purposes, they're interchangeable (and your average user wouldn't be able to tell them apart), so you'd be best off treating her the same way you'd treat a methamphetamine dependent patient.
Christ!
Bluelighter
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- Feb 24, 2006
- Messages
- 1,013
4-Mar has always interested me... I don't trust my judgement enough to wonder if I've ever had it sold to me as meth. I've had meth that produced different effects at times, but there's so many things like state of mind, hydration/nutrition, how well rested or not you are, where you take it, what purity it is, is it cut with anything active, did I have my coffee that afternoon, who I'm with, how you take it etc etc. that it's impossible for me to tell.
Some friends have swore several times that they got 4-mar but whenever I ended up trying it, it was just potent meth.
I hope gas chromatographs and mass spectrometors come down in price one day
would be a great thing for every household to have.
Some friends have swore several times that they got 4-mar but whenever I ended up trying it, it was just potent meth.
I hope gas chromatographs and mass spectrometors come down in price one day
would be a great thing for every household to have.Shulgin101
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2011
- Messages
- 8
Footscrazy – I have read through the thread, but it’s hard to tease out the information I want from the extraneous chat. Sorry about the request for information on availability. My intent was not malicious, I’m just trying to work out whether this is something our agency needs to keep an eye out for. I’m also using this thread/post to show the aforementioned clinician how bluelight works and it’s value for us as AOD workers.
Crankit – Thanks for the comprehensive information - much appreciated!
Christ! – I agree, it’s so hard to separate set and setting from the actual pharmacological properties of a substance. For example, if you expect a pill to have a certain effect, then that is significantly going to influence your subjective experience of that pill. I have often wondered about this with regard to the DMT experience: do people see aliens and elfs because of Strassman and McKenna’s work, or because this is the effect of DMT.
Talking of DMT, this is probably a bad time of the year to be sourcing information re: psychophamacology given that EGA is upon us. Look forward to seeing everybody there – I’m presenting :D
Crankit – Thanks for the comprehensive information - much appreciated!
Christ! – I agree, it’s so hard to separate set and setting from the actual pharmacological properties of a substance. For example, if you expect a pill to have a certain effect, then that is significantly going to influence your subjective experience of that pill. I have often wondered about this with regard to the DMT experience: do people see aliens and elfs because of Strassman and McKenna’s work, or because this is the effect of DMT.
Talking of DMT, this is probably a bad time of the year to be sourcing information re: psychophamacology given that EGA is upon us. Look forward to seeing everybody there – I’m presenting :D
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footscrazy
Bluelight Crew
All good I can understand your request, availability discussion is just something we try and steer away from here.
As for your questions -
(i) come across it (particularly in Melbourne)
I have come across it in Melbourne. Around this time last year there was a bit being sold as methamphetamine, like crankinit said.
(iii) personal effects/experiences
4mar has increased serotonergic effects compared to methamphetamine. This adds another aspect to the rush/euphoria - it can be more intense and reminiscent of a mild mdma high combined with the straight meth rush. I find the 4mar rush has more 'depth' than a straight meth high. The rush isn't energetic as such (but then again neither is very pure meth), it's 'munty', and knocks you on your arse. Once the rush has worn off the effects to me are very similar to methamphetamine - clear headed, focused, etc.
Dosages of 4mar are generally one third that of methamphetamine. 30mg is usually more than enough for your average user, for a night.
As has also been mentioned, it lasts a lot longer than methamphetamine. My rule was always that it took 12 hours after my last dose of meth to be able to sleep; on 4mar, I didn't expect to be able to sleep naturally until 24 hours after my last dose.
Agreeing with Crankinit again, when it comes down to it 4mar and meth are extremely similar. Differences are only subtle, and even these differences are usually only apparent with the first few uses in a session. People who say they find the effects very different are more than likely comparing the effects of 4mar to fairly impure meth. 4 mar is nearly identical to pure meth. 4mar can't be cut in the same ways methamphetamine can, so samples of it are generally much higher purity than your average methamphetamine.
When I was using I used daily, and they were interchangable for me. When you use daily all differences disappear, I assume because serotonin can't be constantly tweaked like dopamine can.
(iv) withdrawal experiences
Just coming down from 4mar felt to me identical to coming down from meth. As for the withdrawals, well as I said, I was using methamphetamine and 4mar interchangably so it's hard to know whether any symptoms were specific to 4mar. I imagine though that a straight 4mar withdrawal would be very similar to a meth withdrawal, which is pretty horrendous. I was a heavy daily user, and my withdrawals were bad. I was in a lot of pain, as well as the usual symptoms of extreme fatigue and a ravenous appetite.
Quitting that addiction was incredibly hard. The psychological addiction 4mar/meth can give you is absolutely insane. The cravings for me were one of the worst feelings I have ever felt, in that they absolutely overtook me, physically as well as mentally. It took 2 months of being off it before they lessened to a mostly bearable level and I started to feel anywhere near 'normal'. It was also incredibly bad for my memory, I don't have a lot of memories from that time. It caused an absolute lack of motivation in me, so that even doing the dishes was a monumental task. It causes anhedonia too, and nothing else seems worth doing except for more 4mar/meth, and hardly anything alse gives you pleasure. I'm still experiencing a bit of that, nearly 11 months off it.
Edit - I also wanted to include this, a marquis reagent test on 4mar. Unlike meth, which goes orange, 4mar doesn't change colour and bubbles.
I can understand your request, availability discussion is just something we try and steer away from here.As for your questions -
(i) come across it (particularly in Melbourne)
I have come across it in Melbourne. Around this time last year there was a bit being sold as methamphetamine, like crankinit said.
(iii) personal effects/experiences
4mar has increased serotonergic effects compared to methamphetamine. This adds another aspect to the rush/euphoria - it can be more intense and reminiscent of a mild mdma high combined with the straight meth rush. I find the 4mar rush has more 'depth' than a straight meth high. The rush isn't energetic as such (but then again neither is very pure meth), it's 'munty', and knocks you on your arse. Once the rush has worn off the effects to me are very similar to methamphetamine - clear headed, focused, etc.
Dosages of 4mar are generally one third that of methamphetamine. 30mg is usually more than enough for your average user, for a night.
As has also been mentioned, it lasts a lot longer than methamphetamine. My rule was always that it took 12 hours after my last dose of meth to be able to sleep; on 4mar, I didn't expect to be able to sleep naturally until 24 hours after my last dose.
Agreeing with Crankinit again, when it comes down to it 4mar and meth are extremely similar. Differences are only subtle, and even these differences are usually only apparent with the first few uses in a session. People who say they find the effects very different are more than likely comparing the effects of 4mar to fairly impure meth. 4 mar is nearly identical to pure meth. 4mar can't be cut in the same ways methamphetamine can, so samples of it are generally much higher purity than your average methamphetamine.
When I was using I used daily, and they were interchangable for me. When you use daily all differences disappear, I assume because serotonin can't be constantly tweaked like dopamine can.
(iv) withdrawal experiences
Just coming down from 4mar felt to me identical to coming down from meth. As for the withdrawals, well as I said, I was using methamphetamine and 4mar interchangably so it's hard to know whether any symptoms were specific to 4mar. I imagine though that a straight 4mar withdrawal would be very similar to a meth withdrawal, which is pretty horrendous. I was a heavy daily user, and my withdrawals were bad. I was in a lot of pain, as well as the usual symptoms of extreme fatigue and a ravenous appetite.
Quitting that addiction was incredibly hard. The psychological addiction 4mar/meth can give you is absolutely insane. The cravings for me were one of the worst feelings I have ever felt, in that they absolutely overtook me, physically as well as mentally. It took 2 months of being off it before they lessened to a mostly bearable level and I started to feel anywhere near 'normal'. It was also incredibly bad for my memory, I don't have a lot of memories from that time. It caused an absolute lack of motivation in me, so that even doing the dishes was a monumental task. It causes anhedonia too, and nothing else seems worth doing except for more 4mar/meth, and hardly anything alse gives you pleasure. I'm still experiencing a bit of that, nearly 11 months off it.
Edit - I also wanted to include this, a marquis reagent test on 4mar. Unlike meth, which goes orange, 4mar doesn't change colour and bubbles.
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tyrael
Bluelighter
Agreed! I would say, even more so when dealing with substances which often produce quite profound mental/emotional/etc. effects!
I've seen people take a (MDx*) pill and flip out, take the same with good set&settings and be fine!
....
I hope gas chromatographs and mass spectrometors come down in price one day
How much does it cost to get something lab tested? Kinda expensive I assume!?
* I will MDx as an example since, when compared with recent RC's, they're relatively more researched and things such as the -dynamics/-kinetics, MOA, positive/neutral/negative effects, etc are competitively well known.
OND43X
Bluelighter
yesterday i bought myself a half g of ice and when i properly checked out the crystals i noticed two things different, 1. Instead of being 1 or two round snapped rocks and crumbs this lot is made up of a large number of tiny cylindrial shards, and 2. These crystals were a more white colour. These changes made me think 'this stuff looks alot like the 4mar i have got in the past.'
after smoking some yesterday i now believe the half gram i bought yesterday was 4mar. Lol im using my mobile to ttype and so thats why i havent gone too indeptth with my thoughts, lol i cant be f**ked and its heaps annoying writinng with this shitty nokia
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Azron
Bluelighter
^ true. Might...
Jakeperson
Bluelighter
A lot of Ice is cut with 4-MAR in small amounts as it is an active cutter, barely noticeable and very easy to synth.