Stimulants 4-Fluoromethylphenidate (4F-MPH) Megathread

[hydr0m0rph]

How does this compare to 4-FA? i love 4-FA cuz its such a clean stim with some empathogenic effects.. really strong too. but my old vendor doesnt have it any more..

 

[roi]

How does this compare to 4-FA? i love 4-FA cuz its such a clean stim with some empathogenic effects.. really strong too. but my old vendor doesnt have it any more..

It's a NDRI not SNDRA.

 

[hydr0m0rph]

hmm, ok i have no idea what that means, care to elaborate?

 

[Hodor]

hmm, ok i have no idea what that means, care to elaborate?

NDRI = Noradrenaline-Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor. A pure Stim, à la Ritalin or Alpha-PVP.

SNDRA = Serotonin-Noradrenaline-Dopamine Releasing Agent. A combined stimulant and empathogen, similar to 4-FA or Mephedrone.

 

[amyamy]

Is it possible to 4f-mph to lift mood and give (much needed) motivation? I struggle w/ lifelong depression that never lifts and does not respond to any of the Rx anti-depressants. So tired of suffering.

Suggestions are welcome & will be very appreciated. I Really need motivation, focus & energy to function in life.

Thank's in advance; amyamy

 

[JM357]

Oddly, while I am not a huge fan of stimulants, I really enjoyed ethylphenidate (but don't really enjoy methylphenidate (ritalin)) as I found it was probably the most euphoric stimulant in comparison to jitteriness, etc. (seemed to release the most dopamine in proportion to norepinephrine of any stim I've tried- dexamphetamine, cocaine, amphetimine, meth, ritalin). Is this or any other of the "phenidates" more similar to ethylphenidate and is ethylphenidate not legal anymore in the U.S.? I didn't really keep up with it, because stims a) aren't my biggest thing b) I do get a script for adderall every month so there isn't much of a need for me to get others in comparison to things I don't have easy access to a similar substance for.

 

[JM357]

By the way- I IVed the ethyl, didn't really use it through other routes.

 

[JM357]

while they are careful about it, due to possible risk of addiction if it is really what you are looking for, my psychopharmacologist said they do sometimes give dopamine releasing stimulants to people with depression who don't tolerate/or don't respond to SSRIs. Usually the doses are quite low in comparison to what they prescribe for ADHD (which are low compared to recreational use usually). So yes, it could but you have to be careful. Also, it does sometimes seem that they will diagnose just about any one with ADHD and prescribe them stims sometimes. But it probably would be harder with depression.

But I would say using an RC for depression might be a bad idea b/c to be effective there will be repeated exposure and we don't really know the long term risks.

 

[amyamy]

Thank you JM357 for your informative replies.
I also am diagnosed w/ ADD and want to ask you if you experience tolerance issues w/ daily use of Rx stims? If so... what you do about it? Is it preventable? Can you take another substance (like an RC chem) on the days you abstain from the prescription stim as a way to cope w/ or prevent tolerance?

Straterra was ineffective for my ADD. My MD just wants to keep pushing SSRI's, etc. I envy you your psychopharmacologist! Wonder what your MD would say to a rotating schedule of (for example): 4 Days Adderall; 1 Day RC Chem; 3 Days Ritalin or Vyvanse; etc; etc; as a way to avoid tolerance and still be able to function? BTW...which do you think is the most motivating Stimulant around now?

After decades of trying so many ineffective, zombifying, expensive (yet worthless for me anyway) Anti-Depressant Meds I now choose to try stim treatment for depression relief as well as to treat my ADD (non-hyper type, if that matters) in hopes of improving my quality of life. Appreciate your opinions.

 

[JM357]

Thank you JM357 for your informative replies.
I also am diagnosed w/ ADD and want to ask you if you experience tolerance issues w/ daily use of Rx stims? If so... what you do about it? Is it preventable? Can you take another substance (like an RC chem) on the days you abstain from the prescription stim as a way to cope w/ or prevent tolerance?

Straterra was ineffective for my ADD. My MD just wants to keep pushing SSRI's, etc. I envy you your psychopharmacologist! Wonder what your MD would say to a rotating schedule of (for example): 4 Days Adderall; 1 Day RC Chem; 3 Days Ritalin or Vyvanse; etc; etc; as a way to avoid tolerance and still be able to function? BTW...which do you think is the most motivating Stimulant around now?

After decades of trying so many ineffective, zombifying, expensive (yet worthless for me anyway) Anti-Depressant Meds I now choose to try stim treatment for depression relief as well as to treat my ADD (non-hyper type, if that matters) in hopes of improving my quality of life. Appreciate your opinions.

I've noticed tolerance to RX stims is a little different than say an opioid- with an opioid you get a tolerance that keeps building over time so month 1 the dose is a certain amount, then month 2 more, and month 3 even more and so on and so on (it continually builds). With stimulants I've noticed, at least in my case, that after a period of abstinence at first one is less tolerant of the dosage then tolerance quickly builds to a certain amount then stops (so you get a tolerance but it doesn't keep going and going- it might go up a LITTLE bit more over time but doesn't keep increasing exponentially). I think what may be more of an issue is the depletion of dopamine- which would continue with any dopamine releasing stimulant (ex. amphetamines like adderall, cocaine, certain RCs, etc.). I don't think I would suggest any RC to a doc- by definition they haven't been tested and may raise a flag for abuse. While I have taken non-RX stims I've never really had a problem with them- honestly sometimes I don't even want to take my RX due to increases in anxiety; he does know about my history of opioid abuse (and for that reason will NOT prescribe me benzos- and honestly I am sort of happy about that since the docs that prescribed them in the past...the only result long term was needing to take them everyday to feel normal as opposed to getting relief from them) but he doesn't consider amphetamines to be a huge risk due to the difference in brain chemistry in people with ADHD/ADD and that opioid addicts tend to prefer downers.

As far as them maintaining effectiveness- yes, there is a drop at first (due to the short term increase in tolerance) but I do think they can maintain a good level of effectiveness. I admittedly don't take them every single day right now due to some level of PAWs from opioid abuse causing anxiety etc. but in the past when I did- on days where I didn't work I would sometimes take lower dosages and sometimes take a day or two off completely. I think that getting a good nights sleep (so scheduling meds so that you can sleep- I did actually at one point need to take a low dose to sleep but not the normal dose) and getting good nutrition are essential to their continued effectiveness. Also, he is a pretty big supporter of stims for people with ADHD and in some other cases and is willing to work with dosages- I currently get 150x30mg adderalls (IR) a month and used to recieve dexedrine (dextroamphetamine- only reason I had to switch is medicaid won't cover stimulants for adults and it is very expensive in my experience, but it has a better ratio of CNS compared to effects on the pulmonary system in most people).

So if you can take a day or two a week off that can help, but for the most part I think that it comes down to sleep, nutrition, and getting the proper dose. I tend to think so long as you recieve a sufficient amount of the medication then it can continue to work for ADHD/depression and I don't know that switching adderall to ritalin or other stims would have a huge effect. I know if I didn't sleep well it would become very ineffective quickly and I think that sometimes when people are depressed the might take it too late (because they don't want to feel the depression) and not sleep well.

 

[Listening]

Is it possible to 4f-mph to lift mood and give (much needed) motivation? I struggle w/ lifelong depression...

Yes, it is possible, but is also possible (certain) that there will be crashes where your depression is worsened exponentially. Can you afford to have days where you are more depressed, lethargic and irritable than usual? This is assuming you are not dosing daily. If you are taking daily you'll have other problems to worry about (including increasing tolerance, cost, availability, etc).

I highly suggest that you do not go down this road. If you do, please be careful.

 

[amyamy]

Thank's for the wise advice.

I'm not thinking about high dose use, recreational use or abuse of any kind. I have never had drug/alcohol issues b/c I've never self medicated w/ either. I rarely even have a sip of wine as dependence on anything is a path I refuse to go down.

Being genetically dopamine deficient makes my daily life a herculean task. Can't imagine adding additional hardship as I can barely 'pass' now. My depression is hidden for the most part as the stigma is so great. I fear that many decades of following Dr's orders and taking Rx SSRI's, TCA's, etc; have damaged me even more.

Older now...so over this joyless existence & simply desiring/needing a plan for a few functional years. Not expecting happiness or even a sense of well being anymore. Sadly I have faked both for the benefit of other's & to just 'get by' for so very long, but am now too weary too continue.

Would love to wake w/ optimism but know that will never happen. I've resigned myself to always feeling extreme gloom, doom, dread & anxiety upon waking in the AM as my circadian & cortisol systems are mal-functioning (f...'d up). As a result I never wake up feeling rested. Nor do I fall asleep at night. Finally, after decades (since childhood) of lying awake night after night after night unable to sleep I was able to get an Rx for a sleep med that gives me 4 hours of unrestorative, fitful sleep...but at least it's sleep! You can't imagine how incredibly grateful I am for that 0.25mg triasalom! I treasure it. ( yes...I fear I depend on it for sleep.)

For daytime anxiety I take all the OTC supps, gaba, green tea, 5-HTP, etc. Not that they work. Daily I consider giving up.
So...I'm reaching out...would 2-FMA used occasionally, responsibly at low dose be a better choice than the 4f-mph which Listening & JK advise against for my circumstance? I need strong motivation to acomplish daily living chores & go to work as I am becoming reclusive. Your expertise is sincerely needed.

 

[Sprout]

Do you have clinical evidence of a Dopaminergic dysfunction?
Depression is not sufficient by itself, and would lend itself more to SE dysfunction than DA.

 

[Listening]

I'm not thinking about high dose use, recreational use or abuse of any kind...

...would 2-FMA used occasionally, responsibly at low dose be a better choice than the 4f-mph which Listening & JK advise against for my circumstance? I need strong motivation to acomplish daily living chores & go to work as I am becoming reclusive.

I have no experience with 2-fma, but from what I understand, the crashes and after-effects of all stimulants are similar, even if some are more subdued than others.

The reason why I felt the need to respond to your question is because, although I don't suffer from clinical depression, I have been trying to use some of these stimulants as occasional (ex once per week) motivation boosters at very moderate doses (as you say, non-recreational). What I have found is that, for me at least, even though they can be effective, there is always a price to pay. I have a family and a regular job, so it's difficult for me to get a "day off". So, when I'm slightly irritable the day after taking a moderate dose of a stimulant (which I always am), I have to question whether I'm helping myself or hurting myself. Even worse: when I conclude that I'm hurting myself, I still have a hard time resisting the temptation for another try next week.

As I say, my doses are moderate and I've not gone further than once or twice per week, but even at these levels, if I'm honest with myself, I would say that I'm better off without. Maybe your experience will be different, but since you are already depressed, I am hoping that you will play it safe.

Good luck.

 

[noobcakes]

Re: Poter up there

I do have a needle fixation and it is my preferred ROA.

Somewhere around the middle of December I was with a friend and re-dosed massive amounts of this.

Three weeks later I wake up in hospital.

But that's not a warning about this drug specifically (although did trigger full waking eyes-open hallucinations, paranoid delusions and psychosis. But I was volumetric (powder) backloading up to 1ml.

I have decided that I can't have it in the house. It is nice. At low doses, that's 15mg or less oral IMHO.

 

[noobcakes]

Oh, and if it's not water soluble then it's a contaminated sample. I got one when I ordered 3g, it would literally clog up the syringe.

It should dissolve in warm water.

If you're iVing this you need to use a filter. Keep dose low (you can always have more later, and the stimulation of this lasts HOURS), crush as much up as you can in the spoon, then gently warm it, it'll all dissolve, bring back through filter into syringe to get rid of the visual bits of contamination.

 

[bropiate]

I'm not a stim guy but I like this stuff. Squeaky clean.
Only con is it's 12h duration and the urge to redose when you've not come down yet, leading to long nights.

I went through 50mg of it powdered (and diluted to a factor of 10 in water) then measured it in a 1ml nevershare syringe sans needle. Took 5mg in the morning and ploughed through coursework that I had had no motivation for and thus am claiming special circumstances due to it being late so I don't lose 5 marks (out of 50) a day and this is day 11.

It's great in lower doses for work and motivation though I did just finish off that 50mg standard sol_n this evening so I'm relying on methadone, sparkling wine and some cider to get me to sleep at a reasonable time. Methadone (70ml) usually KOs me for the first 6 hours after peak into what I call the Methazone where you're nodding without euphoria, it doesn't seem to with this but I'll try nd sleep with the booze and 'done.


Pros:
Clean
Great motivation
Somewhat entactogenic
Cheaper than coke
Excellent study aid, shall be dosing before my exams in may
Music sounds better
You generally feel on top of the world at higher doses
Gives you the urge to clean, again good for students

Neutral:
Makes you thirsty
Increase in body temp perceived
Long duration

Cons:
Urge to redose and get higher and higher despite the long duration
Seems to be causing some bruxism. Chew on something soft, don't crack your teeth and let plaque through the enamel, I've seen good teeth wrecked (from normal white full enamel smile to see through teeth with bits crumbling off and dark spots where the nerve has died, meaning this 21 year old will need false teeth before 30.

Maybe it's cos I went to the dentist and got a cracked tooth fixed as well as being on the 'done I'm pushing the dental hygiene. Bought a water pressure flosser (you fire in lukewarm water, about half a cup of flouride containing mouthwash and fill to 150mls (it goes to 300 or so), stick a bit in it (it comes with a range of them, including a mini toothbrush that lets you floss and brush the gaps at the same time) for 45 quid and my teeth are whiter already after a day of 3 uses a day (I brush 3x daily due to methadone and the reputation it has for wrecking teeth) and since there's mouthwash in it there's no need to bother about that. If you've the spare cash and take stims regularly I'd recommend it as flossing teeth is a pain in the ass.
/stimmed out rambling

EDIT: Funny that I love RC helicopters and RCs

"What do you like doing mate"
"RCs and stuff"
I should make a thred using a troll account on RC forums (remote control) in gen discussion asking about 4f-mph and 4f-x mexedrone and a bunch of other RCs andwht they think gives the best stimmy high, the best downer hit and the best trips.
Instab&

 

[phatass]

Why isn't it banned in uk as a analogue of Ritalin?

 

[roi]

Because there's no phenidate blanket ban, you dingus.

 

[aced126]

What kind of metabolic changes would result from the p-fluoro substitution? p-fluoro substitution on amphetamine approximately doubles half life, but I don't think the substitution here would greatly affect the molecule's affinity for all the esterases in the blood. I think the half life of this should be similar, if not very slightly longer than Ritalin. Any comments?