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Phenethylamines [2C-E Subthread] 2C-E Dosage and Methods of Administration

samadhi_smiles said:
You ought to be careful, because for example I have a higher natural tolerance to certain 2Cx's, but have unusually low natural tolerances to 2CTx's. So even chemicals so structurally similar there can be pretty drastic flucuations (compared to 'average-sized' dosage levels).

Sometimes adding just a LITTLE 2Cx will go a LONG way increasing the intensity. I would say increase a 2-5mg at a time within that dosage range for 2Cx (plus you might not have absorbed all of that 13mg).

peace,
samadhi
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Thanks for the advice. But I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "you might not have absorbed all of that 13mg". Can you please elaborate?
 
stillmind said:
Thanks for the advice. But I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "you might not have absorbed all of that 13mg". Can you please elaborate?
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Sorry for interrupting. I think what he means is that some of the material might have have been changed chemically, got encapsulated in a particularly hard piece of food or fecal matter or some other such mishap with a part of the dose. Therefore, what you think of as 13 mg might have been the effects of just 8 or 9. If some next time all of it does go to your brain, you'll be in a place not of your choosing.
Granted, if you had the same experience half a dozen times already, the validity of this argument diminishes rapidly, but its your health, sir.
 
yeah mandelbrot got it. I find the absorption rates of phenethylamines are fickle at best.

thats why it took me quite a few trips to understand how to accurately gauge what dose I might need for what desired intensity. Its still sometimes a random thing.
 
Thanks for explaining Samadhi and Mandlebrot. Would the absorption rates be any less fickle with sublingual absorption of the powder rather than just swallowing a gelcap?
 
Rectal dosing is usually more consistent. Not really sure about sublingual.
 
I have an idle thought on dose unpredictability.

Since 2C-E is a substituted phenethylamine and structurally similar to phenylalanine , it would probably be strongly affected, absorption-wise, by the presence of other amino acids (ie food) in the small intestine - perhaps this is why it has such an unpredictable effect with oral dosing?
Any thoughts?
 
OK. I did 20 mg sublingually just over two hours ago (so forgive spelling/grammar). Within three minutes I realized this was a bad idea, as I could feel it corroding my soft tissue beneath my tongue. I washed the rest down with water, but I have a little corrosvie burn pit beneath my tongue – I’m sure it will heal up, but a warning to others. Interestingly, I started coming up within 10 minutes – I’m guessing that a few mg were actually absorbed through the burn hole directly into my bloodstream. Within 20 minutes my pupils were fully dilated. Needless to say, I strapped myself in for a hell of ride, but it really hasn’t gotten much more intense. Again, I speculate that maybe 2-8 mg hit me immediately, and the rest has gone the normal oral route.

Thus far I’m feeling virtually no mental effects. I do have a fairly strong stimulating body buzz and of course everything is wavering because my pupils are fully dilated. No nauseau by the way at any point. But since I’m in this for the mental (or more accurately psychotherapuetic) effects I’m considering supplementing. I’m thinking a few mg insufflated, but would be interested in hearing waht more experienced users would recommend in terms of mode of administrations and dose. Keep in mind my generally massive tolerance. It’s now been exactly 2:20 since I first ingested (i recall it could take 3+ hours to peak, correct)?

Thanks – s/m
 
Whoopeee! Pop Trip! I was way asleep. So couldn't sit in. Although you probably don't feel nice about it, thank you for trying the sub lingual route. Now I know I won't try that ever. How your trip go? Anything positive to share?
If mucus-membrane absorption is one way to dose, wouldn't it be possible to:
a) - dissolve in small amount of liquor (Or EtOH p.a., if you have it.)
b) - dilute with water (say, oh, 50x?)
c) - sip it slowly/swirl in mouth over a period of half an hour.
Read (in this form I believe) that would reduce pukeness as well. What about the taste? Or did your buds fry?
 
dose-response curve

I'm aware the conventional wisdom states that every 2mg increase (orally) translates to roughly doubled intensity. However the only first hand account I found of this is from morning glory seed - an eminent authority to be sure, but I'm wondering if that rule has generally held true for others who have used this compound extensively.
 
It's a good principle to go by while you're first feeling the substance out, but I think it's probably true for just a minority of users. The dose response curve is steep in my experience, but not that steep. There are plenty of people reporting that they normally take 2C-E up into the 30mg+ range, and it's difficult to believe, given that adding 2mg=2Xs the intensity FOR THE GREAT MAJORITY, that these high doser's innate tolerance accounts for what, for those for whom 18mg is "solidly tripping," is 6 times higher in terms of experiential intensity than usual or more (esp. considering the body load issues.) It's possible their 2C-E was cut or they had been dosing 2C-E frequently for months to build up some ridiculous tolerance before they decided to talk about their 30mg+ doses, but that seems less likely than the idea that, for most, the dose response curve is steep, but not THAT steep, as is what I've found to be the case personally even without any tolerance.
 
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Its such a hard thing to gauge, since how strong an experience feels like to me at that point in my consciousness is affected by so many things (my tolerance both physical and psychological at the time, which is always fluctuating as HT2a receptors are down and up regulated through use and non-use, my mood, my overall health at the time, etc).

But, I would say that by adding 2-4mg of 2CE you will be almost ensuring pushing it to the next level if you are already 'almost there' (ie at a level 2).

I will also add that the dose-response curve is not linear, I've noticed as I've climbed it, the effects have become more and more pronounced (and not equal across all effects, but primarily the negative fx have increased sharper and sharper).
 
How many doses of 2C-E does one need to injest to become tolerant, my first and only so far was somewhere between 20 and 30 mg since my scale was only accurate to .01 g. How long should I wait until dosing again? and how much should I take? I took it a week ago from right now.
 
psood0nym said:
the dose response curve is steep, but not THAT steep, as is what I've found to be the case personally even without any tolerance.
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Thanks; I'm curious - what HAVE you found to be the case personally in terms of the curve?
 
For the reasons outlined by samadhi_smiles I hesitate to draw up anything so exacting as a polynomial curve, even just to represent something as familiar as my own experiences. In other words there's more than one curve representing the intensities of different qualities of the experience and the steepness of all of those curves tends to vary within an undefined range between trips.

I will say, because I'm comfortable and familiar with 2C-E, that if I felt reasonably sure all the other major factors were held constant (tolerance, environment, mood, etc.) between a low-end +++ session where I felt comfortably in control for the full duration (hypothetically 18mg orally) and another session where I wanted to push my limits, I would not increase the dose by much more than 20% of the first session's dose (~3.5-4mg), and I would expect that those ~4mg would substantially increase but not "double" MY subjective experience of the intensity.
 
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Hello all again, I made somewhat of a booboo last night. At about 12:45 AM I took about 50 mg of 2C-E rectally and didn't strap down hard enough. I now feel as though my soul has been raped, its 20 till noon and I'm still tripping, audio and visual. The body-load is unbearable. I threw up twice, while listening to Astral Projection which was pretty awesome, but way too much deja vu. Normally there is a narrowing of ego and synesthesia with this chemical to me, the last was much more than just some overlapping, all merged. All of them became one infinitude of sensorium. I don't know if I was ready for ludicrous speed of the mind yet. My heart hurts. A dull ache right in the right ventricle. My stomach is filled with mud. Any recommendations?
 
Erebus,
Green tea, some herbs, staying hydrated, and relaxing always help me. Evaluate how these new experiences have positively changed you and your life.


50 rectally!!
you're keen, man, holy fuck...

:)
 
I only took it rectally because I had read less of the chemical is lost in the digestive tract. It comes up faster, with less nausea. Well, I had had a double chili cheese burger from Tommy's a few hours prior, and that was my only reasoning. Being in complete darkness with music blarring, then I look at my iPod and it explodes into fractals of red and yellow in sync with the music in my ear! It was like the screen thingamabob on iTunes and WMP, but in real life. Ahh!
These visuals were not present to me at 20 mg. I don't recommend doing 2C-E this high in dosage, the body load is enormous, I dosed about 21 hours ago and I still ache.
 
now i know the stove is hot...

So shortly after my last post three weeks ago asking for dosing info, I took 25mg 2C-E orally. My hope was to spend more time in that incredibly beneficial +4 state I brushed the surface of the week before. In that previous experience, 20mg orally did very little, but shortly after insufflating 4mg at 3.5 hours in, I had that amazing milisecond long yet infinite moment. I had stupidly assumed that that 4mg bump had nothing to do with the increased intensity (I figured it was due to the fact I started meditating shortly after bumping). Now I know otherwise.

25mg orally was not substantially stronger than the 20mg had been, so once again I decided to insufflate a supplement at 3.5 hours. This time I did approximately 6mg. Within 10 minutes, I went from +1 to +3; it's like that extra bump just kicked everything in. And I was not prepared. I won't go into the details, but basically I had certain disturbing thoughts, and I was certain if I accepted these thoughts I would go insane, so instead of accepting them, I fought with all my might. Had I accepted I believe I may have been rewarded with the profound, healing experience I sought; as it was I experienced a level of horror I'd never before known, or even thought possible. The following following week was marked by profound depression, at times bordering suicidal - again unlike anything I'd ever experienced before. It's now three weeks later and while I'm still shaken, I feel much better - close to "normal" most of the time. Needless to say, I'll be taking a break from psychedlelics. I thank everyone who advised me to go slower, and wish I'd listened.
 
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