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2017 Trump Presidency Thread

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i don't know if i'm using the proper terminology, but islam as a religion, should be feared and dismantled from human society...as should christianity. But islam is more dangerous currently than any religion. I am as liberal as they come...but ignoring this is a big mistake.
 
Ryan01 said:
Have some guts and stand up to non white rapists and child molesters

Making excuses for them is cowardly.
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Its more cowardly to be afraid of strangers based on a minority of them. Youre seeing a threat where humans evolved to see them (ie. The Outsider) and not even attempting to overcome this fear.

Until you can show clearly that the majority of Muslims are rapist and child molesters, I'm going to assume there is no reasonable basis for your assumptions.

edit: and stop making those sort of racial comments for fucks sake. You know the rules.
 
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Lots of religions are oppressive. Most are.

But it doesnt mean the people born into those religions are inherently dangerous, or that they should be treated as second-class citizens.
To me, that sort of thinking - the divide snd conquer, us-and-them mentality is dangerous, uncivilised and backwards.

Why should islam be feared? To me that makes no sense.
Because, yes, i have muslim friends, neighbours, co-workers.

If i had to generalise, i'd say the muslims i know are deeply respectful, dignified people.

Pretty much the opposite of all the people i've known who distrust or fear muslims...
 
Always good to note that Sufism, an ancient branch of Islam, was one of the most tolerant, out there and loving branches of faith. Unfortunately it has been all but shut down by literalist fascists claiming that they own all possible expressions of islam, which is of course nonsense.
 
LucidSDreamr said:
i don't know if i'm using the proper terminology, but islam as a religion, should be feared and dismantled from human society...as should christianity. But islam is more dangerous currently than any religion. I am as liberal as they come...but ignoring this is a big mistake.
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Okay, but rather than "them"; "it". Criticise the religion and its ideology but don't attack its adherents, who are aa much a victim of their religion as anyone. No doubt we would all be Muslims had we been born in Muslim countries.

In a sense, allowing integration in the west is probably the best way to deconstruct Islam.

Of course, people have a choice to nor follow a religion but I accept that, in many places, there exists extreme duress.
 
I don't think all religions are fundamentally oppressive, or at least always were. Religions have become just another way for greedy humans to grab more power and money mostly but that isn't necessarily how they started. There are many non-Muslims in Muslim countries, although some are more violent and active in their oppression that's to be sure.
 
also, the best way to get muslims to think in a critical way about their faith is via education and discourse, and you can't have that when you don't also reach out to them.

I also have no bad experiences with muslims, coming from a country with a traditionally large Turkish population as well as 90000 refugees from syria, iraq and afghanistan taken in during the refugee crisis. sure there are problems, but the way the right wing wants to go about it will solve nothing and is completely inhumane.
 
Yeah, the right wing have generally got the wrong idea unless they want to lead us ever more swiftly towards expanding global warfare....Look at what they engineered here in the UK, leaving Europe is the worst thing we could have possibly decided to do at the worst time. More segregation leads to more conflict.
 
NiceEnough said:
There are many non-Muslims in Muslim countries, although some are more violent and active in their oppression that's to be sure.
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Sorry, my comment was too broad, if course there are non-Muslims in those countries. My point is that I don't think its right to distrust people for things they are born, and socially 'coerced', into. Its always better to treat people as individuals.

As to your remarks about religion, that's a whole other thing. I could digress for pages and have ;)
 
swilow said:
Its more cowardly to be afraid of strangers based on a minority of them. Youre seeing a threat where humans evolved to see them (ie. The Outsider) and not even attempting to overcome this fear.

Until you can show clearly that the majority of Muslims are rapist and child molesters, I'm going to assume there is no reasonable basis for your assumptions.

edit: and stop making those sort of racial comments for fucks sake. You know the rules.
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In no way did I ever say or imply that. I've said this multiple times. Yet you keep saying otherwise because you can't admit the open door policy was a mistake. What you're saying is, because not all muslims are bad, we should ignore the ones that are. Last I checked, european men don't need to be TAUGHT not to sexually assault people.
spacejunk said:
And making idiotic generalisations isn't?
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Pointing out that a country has a crime problem as a result of unchecked 3rd world immigration isn't a generalisation. It's a big issue when women and kids are scared to go out at night for fear of being raped and assaulted by the newcomers. People like you just turn a blind eye to what is happening, or simply don't give a shit.
I have black friends, but I can still admit that black men commit nearly half of all murders in america while being approx 7% of the population.
 
spacejunk said:
This is just false.
It may be the world you're familiar with, but not me. Segregated communities are completely - erm, foreign to me.
My neighbours are from all over the world.
It makes for vibrant, healthy communities.
Lack of genetic diversity leads to inbreeding. If you want to talk about evolution, diversity makes for genetic strength.

And culturally? Not everywhere in the world has ethnic ghettos.
Cultural enclaves, sure - but i live in an area with a large muslim population (a block or two from a large mosque, and there are dozens of halal supermarkets and restaurants within a 20min walk) - and i really love it.
It's vibrant, it's interesting, it's culturally rich.

When you are afraid of things that are different, you're the one missing out on experiencing a broader spectrum of humanity.

To paraphrase trump - do you really think our countries (yours and mine) are innocent? Of course they're not!
It's one of the few honest things he's said.
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I was referring to beginnings. Life is naturally ordered, differently, in different places. If you and your diverse peers continue to live with each other, or around each other, you will all either blend (and maybe find a new peace down the road), or you won't (you might find peace, but not together, ultimately). Basically you don't have a choice (if you hold to your belief of equality...). If your country- if big businesses in your country promote mass immigration so that they can get the workers they want, you will be forced to breed with them, and your offspring will look less and less your definition of diverse. I'm not taking issue with this, exactly, other than, "what then"? Do you continue to import new and different people because they look different, have a religion you feel needs modernization, or whatever?

The reason we have diversity is because there are differences/divisions between us. And if we bring multiracialism and culturalism onto our people, we put it on our people to interbreed, and this becomes necessary in respects, and this is very potentially damaging. I say it becomes necessary because as long as we can pin differences to groups, or group people according to differences, there will be conflict between groups. You may be experiencing the fun of diversity- of experiencing samples of the best of cultures around you, in your very stable country, but there are many people who are not experiencing the good of it. In ways, we are brought down, by diversity. It is challenging.

What causes these people to move to your country? Why do not WE go and make THEM more diverse? Because we have stability here, in the west, relatively, and more open societies. And because their societies have, for one reason or another, maybe the west had some part of it, been brought to points where they felt they had to move. Something wasn't good enough. White westerners have never, in mass numbers, moved to cultures/countries, or immigrated to civilizations, and integrated to them, that were not white, and western (recent history, maybe groups went in places). Yes, some people fled Europe during WWII to North Africa. They probably went back. But basically, they come here [now, just about only]. We don't go there. What causes them to? Shit at home. So basically, by championing, one-sidedly, this "diversity", you are justifying it, and the reasons for it. I would better accept an positive idea of diversity, as one of a silver lining to it, or a blessing to a cursed situation, than "it's just great all around".

Genetic diversity? My mom and dad grew up in towns about 15 minutes from each other driving. I have genetic testing completed that proves that I am not inbred. There are points where genetic isolation can become a strength, such as the fact that we are human and formed from a bottlenecked population (very small, almost extinct), and are not another great ape. Through our isolation, and specialization, we developed into the small-mouthed, huge brained, manipulative creatures that we are. It is not simply one direction either way. If that population would have bred with another, around that time, maybe we wouldn't be what we are, and maybe we'd still be swinging from trees, sometime back, if another route was taken... Diversity is not simply unidirectional "strength". Diversity is what killed the Native Americans. And diversity is why the Jews in Medina were slaughtered, enslaved, or expelled, by Muhammad- when he was first a refugee there.

(Edit 2/24- later: Also, why individual species, and "races" of people look very similar to each other/have uniformity, is that they developed from smaller populations (bottlenecks). People in East Asia didn't get their signature physical traits by anything other than a smaller founder population, that made it possible for the traits seen so commonly expressed, in them, to become much more widespread. Blue eyes began with one person, but it isn't as if it had to spread to the number of people that live today... This evolution occurred because of the isolation-- without being so isolated, the mutations would have most likely not found such ubiquity. It would seem that reduced numbers/genetic non-diversity is a great reason why there is diversity as we see it today...

As for cultures, Australian, "Western" culture is the one that all of the others must adhere to, or else- in Australia. You don't get the part of their culture that forces women to cover, that says it's okay to beat their wife, or that FGM is the right path (not necessarily Islamic). You get the only part that can survive, or what is tolerated, in the greater culture. Now, imagine trying to have this there, where many of them are from, among the opinions held by many of them (such as, don't draw Muhammad...even though I am not saying you should draw people anyways, that were alive, that were prophets, or connections to "God"...).
 
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And then, there are Jews. Ashkenazi Jews come from a population of around 500 350 people, or that's one way of looking at it-- I'm sure there has been breeding from outside. I am .03% Ashkenazi, if 23andme is correct, and it may be because I have a lot of relatives on there, and supposedly Jews do, for whatever reason. I don't know. Anyways, Ashkenazi Jews have an average I.Q. that is about 112-115, and they also have some issues, genetically, negatively. Their population selected for intelligence, and there has been studies into this. Steven Pinker has some interesting words on it (he is also Jewish). It isn't simply blank-slate/environment/nurture, it is nature. European average in the same environment that these Jews developed/became themselves...average I.Q. is about 100 (compared to the Ashkenazi 112-115).

I know people are tired of this coming back up, but it wouldn't if there were satisfying arguments against these ideas, and the problem will remain until it is worked through. For those who would say this is off topic, it's not if "racism" (or what it actually is) is associated with Trump's election. Anyway, I just wanted to share this example, of this group that is disproportionately represented in a lot of big science stuff and stuff... that are some of the least "diverse" people in the world, genetically.

Another example of the falsehood of "diversity is strength"... Africa. Most diverse human population (genetically) on Earth, measuring certain ways. Trumps everyone else combined. Average IQ 70s-80s. I'm not saying this is nature, only, exactly (they have had a lot of setbacks, and still do), but I doubt it can be cleanly, easily separated. I also need to be clear that the average doesn't mean you won't know people with many degrees, who are brilliant. Just that the population has this average, in these areas. But, I also think it would go up, with better stability, and health. I don't think they are stupid.. but more injured/stunted. In that, I should probably be 10 points higher, but I grew up fucked up too.

Also, homogeneous vs heterogeneous societies, and violent crime rates...can you guess which ones have the highest? I don't think Danish/German women had to worry [as much] about going outside before the Muslims...
 
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What23 the problem is that facts are racist.


Just heard Jason chaffitz being interviewed by NPR and they asked him all the 'muh amaluments' questions and he shut the interviewer down. He called it exactly how I see it, liberals weren't expecting trump to win due to all the fake news. And they are still in shock that he won.
 
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