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2017 Trump Presidency Thread

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LucidSDreamr said:
^ I wasn't referring to the debates, I was referring to his beating her at rallying support of the middle class and those in the middle of the spectrum. which is all that matters when it comes to getting to run the country.

The dems won't be able to compete anymore barring some catastrophe of war or economics caused by the gop.

they can't compete because

1. they refuse to play into ppls hate and selfishness, which are much stronger emotions and more prevelant that empathy and tolerance. its just a fact and if they don't acknowledge it they will never win again

2. they refuse to focus on job creation. and instead focus on PC bullshit.
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Maybe.
Or maybe the media fixates on that?
My take is that Hillary's campaign was beaten by resentment - and when she was set up as the "establishment" choice - she was sunk.

Sanders was the only inspiring US presidential candidate in my lifetime. If the dems take anything away from this, it should be not to stifle radical ideas.
Frankly, the republicans look to be in absolute disarray.

Perhaps my perception is different, coming as i do from outside the political media bubble in the states (which in my experience, is all-pervasive)

I think the idea that trump didn't run on identity politics is total bullshit.

His "muslim ban" and prudish toilet hand-wringing is nothing but identity politics.
 
While I think David Wooderson's words are a bit dramatic/extreme, I see his frustration might be at least in part response to those who pretend that Islam isn't in conflict with the west- who are unwilling to touch that base at all, or meet people half-way. This is what got Trump elected, and the concern isn't without merit.

David said he didn't hate them. Consumer just takes it to another extreme to try to say he does. Makes false equivalence of not wanting the "nations" coexisting in the same nation, next to each other, with *tear, you hate, you evil*.

Personally, I WANT to visit different countries, including Islamic countries. I should also make note here considering this context that we are not allowed in Mecca, as non Muslims, and Israeli Jews are banned from various Islamic countries, and other faiths are very hard to practice. You can't just take the culture out of the people and no matter the anecdotal experience with individuals, that doesn't mean that the overall effect will be the same. I feel for them trying to escape where they come from, but it doesn't change the fact that I don't see it as good for us to allow mass numbers here, in any number where their culture is preserved, in a way that can assert itself as an identity that is separate from others. I don't like the idea of multiple "nations" pretending to be one nation.

I would love to travel, and learn about these other cultures. I would follow customs while there. And this is true diversity. I love diversity. I don't want my diversity being greyed out. I would be fine with tourists as well. I would be glad to have exchange programs. Many ambassadors. Build positive relationships over time with the world. But it is NOT a good idea to promote mass immigration.

You can recognize that issues can come from this, see a problem coming, want to avoid it, and not hate them.

While I think David was frustrated, and just spitting general ideas (abuse isn't as widespread as he is thinking), he isn't far off. Islam is problems. And there are more problems to be made with it, but supporting lefty policies of justifying and promoting mass immigration. Again... I WANT to visit the Islamic world (as well as other places). I don't mind visitors. What I don't want is them here permanently, increasingly, and potentially usurping "us" as the majority in places.
 
I'm currently having lunch in a market full of Islamic food and people.
I'm not scared of muslims, but clearly some people are. That's sad - for you.

On the other hand, i wouldn't be caught dead in an American fast food chain. Gross.
Not in America or anywhere else on the planet.
The muslim ban is utterly bizarre, but classic fear-mongering - which is probably the thing america does best; fear.
 
^C'mon man, you can't tell me you'd never eat an In-N-Out burger, it's frickin delicious :p

They make the fries fresh right there in front of you! I've never been to any other chain that cuts the potatoes up in house.

Anyways... have any of y'all ever studied early Islamic civilization? It's full of weird contradictions and I think that the religion as a culture has never shed this as we see the dichotomy between peaceful Muslims and their terrorist brethren in the modern day.
 
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Do in-n-out burger do decent vege burgers?

Tbh, "in-n-out" sounds like a vomit euphemism in aussie vernacular ;)
 
It's a California chain, sure it sounds gross but if you don't like burgers in the first place, well... what can I say? I doubt they have vegie burgers.

I didn't know you were a vegetarian. I'll never be one myself meat tastes too good. I don't eat it daily but man, going without? Let's just say my grandmother is always worried that I don't get enough red meat 8)
 
Yeah man, i havent eaten meat for almost 20 years ;)

In-n-out burger just makes me think of the Big Lebowski.
 
Droppersneck said:
It's pathetic and has done a lot of harm to America.
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In what sense has it harmed America?

You don't think electing a reality TV star billionaire has harmed your nations standing?
 
Anecdotal. Muslims represent 2.2℅ of your population. They are not fully expressed. The stock is largely recent, probably escaped recent war or other conflict, and are essentially on their best behavior, many of them (like many of us). I am not trying to portray Muslims as lower man-beasts, but I have questions about their ideology, which is said to be perfect, and what it allows and promotes. There are just logical conflicts to allowing a people with an ideology that is set to dominate the wild in, for one.

Also, there are the issues with simple group conflict. Again, they are 2.2 percent of your country, and various factors influence how well off they may be, in Australia. Many of these people are fleeing conflict. And there are also ethnic conflicts and other sectarian conflict in the Middle East. Are we not importing that? How are we not? How are "we" the cure - the west? This could be suicide.

Can you name any Islamic nations where you would want to go if you were a female? What about highly Islamic areas in France? Do you want to raise your children, or a daughter there? They get along with the group fine yea at 2.2 percent... They kind of have to. But Muslims have identity, and it is, in ways, made stronger by the "other". What happens when they dominate by the numbers? What recently has come out of the Islamic world, that has made our lives easier/better?

I don't fear a Muslim so irrationally, but I do fear people with beliefs and certain behavior, who I lack identity with (if I don't identity with them an they don't me then why are we together?). And I don't approve of certain beliefs held by large groups of people, and would not ever advocate for their inclusion into our society.

The last restaurant I ate at was Chipotle, around Christmas 2015.
 
Two friends of mine road pushbikes from Berlin to China on the old silk road..through many so called no go muslim nations. They said the people were amazing, friendly and happy. They welcomed my friends into their homes, fed them, gave them local insight on things they should see in the areas they lived. I think tarring a culture with a wide brush largely drawn from the media and politicians rather than personal experience is just plain ignorant and simplistic. Are there Islamic extremists? Absolutely. Do they reflect the majority of muslims? Absolutely not...just as the extreme Christians dont reflect the average person in a Christian country.
 
spacejunk said:
I'm currently having lunch in a market full of Islamic food and people.
I'm not scared of muslims, but clearly some people are. That's sad - for you.

On the other hand, i wouldn't be caught dead in an American fast food chain. Gross.
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I'd imagine the woman confined to a wheelchair after being gangraped by migrants is
 
Still, we are inviting the problems they have here. They have more people that drive trucks into massive numbers of people, strap bombs to themselves, and there are more women living in fear and forced to cover and do things certain ways, more strictly, than other places. This isn't necessarily tarring them all with the same brush but they are group, and we can measure things about groups.

When was this? Just curious. I wonder if the silk road may have directly influence culture along its way. I mean I know it must have, but I wonder how much influence that has right now. I doubt people would be as friendly in conflict zones, or if your friends were part of a group that came in in invasive numbers, or led protests or something.

The anecdotes don't really matter. I don't consider "us" totally awesome or bad, but I know we aren't compatible with Islam. Most so-called Muslims aren't even really Muslim. They're about as Muslim and this is really rather telling of those western "SJW" people, as those people who on Facebook changed their profile picture to "Today I am also Muslim" as some kind of virtue signal. They're hypocrites to the religion they claim to have identity with-that they claim is their identity. This is dangerous. God (truth) spits (rejects) out the luke-warm (non truth?). But it is dangerous because they still parrot that, and still, support very conservative of Islamic ideals policy... Like for example the not insignificant numbers of them in Europe and elsewhere that think terrorism for certain things, like drawing Muhammad, is justified.

People are so critical of ourselves/the west. Meanwhile, everyone else is a victim (brown skin doesn't hurt). And what is their fault, is our fault. Instead of a hateful racism or bigotry, on the left, we have nothing but good to share about them. All smiles. All happy. All helpful... No bother to look under the surface of things, or into long term implications/consequences.

Sometimes we are conservative because others are (or will be) too.
 
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Ryan01 said:
I'd imagine the woman confined to a wheelchair after being gangraped by migrants is
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I imagine that the millions killed in US military strikes and sanctions in the middle east are (legitimately) frightened of the US war machine.

Fear is used to control and suppress the US population. If you can't see that, look at all the "doomsday preppers" and people who own ludicrous caches of firearms "for protection".
Your government drums fear into the population constantly. It's a pretty obvious method of repression and marketing.

Remember everyone buying scotchtape post 911 to...seal their windows?
Remember y2k?

Blatant scaremongering and paranoia.

Any notion of the US being the "leader of the free world" surely died on January 20th 2017.
Nice emotive strawman argument though.
 
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^ you're not worth responding to.

consumer said:
Two friends of mine road pushbikes from Berlin to China on the old silk road..through many so called no go muslim nations. They said the people were amazing, friendly and happy. They welcomed my friends into their homes, fed them, gave them local insight on things they should see in the areas they lived. I think tarring a culture with a wide brush largely drawn from the media and politicians rather than personal experience is just plain ignorant and simplistic. Are there Islamic extremists? Absolutely. Do they reflect the majority of muslims? Absolutely not...just as the extreme Christians dont reflect the average person in a Christian country.
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I have a friend who is iranian and used to write as a foreign correspondant for Reuters and the New York Times.

He is of the most gentle, generous, kind and respectful humans i have ever met.
His wife is lovely as well, and is treated with so much love and reverence by her husband that their relationship could teach a lot to many, many westerners i've known.
He and his lovely wife are muslim, yet both highly critical of their government and of fundamentalism.
Unlike trump supporters, they don't support the oppressive regime of their homeland.
It's really sad to hear how people - who clearly know nothing about the people they're talking about - say such slanderous and hateful things about muslims and people from the middle east (because obviously, the "muslim ban" also bans christians and numerous other non-muslims in their absurd "vetting")

Fear of islam is really cowardly, and utterly lacking in factual reasoning.

It's been whipped up to divide working people, foster suspicion and hostility in communities and - most of all - to make it easier for the US war machine to invade oil-rich gulf states, destabilise large regions for both the fossil fuels that can be plundered, and for strategic military hostility.

A dehumanised community is far less politically risky for US forces to murder innocent people in.

This is why i have no time for racists. I make no apologies for that.

It's depressing to see bluelighters fall for that kind of manipulation, but i guess when you've grown up in a society so segregated by ethnic divisions and massive wealth disparities (with limited opportunities for education) - it's easy to fall into fearing, blaming and ostracising things you don't understand.

Have some guts and stand up to tyranny.
 
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The natural state of life is naturally segregated. A black man and a white man would never evolve next door. And where Islam went, for the most part, it took hold/dominated the society.

I don't think it was my government that answered a poll of Muslims to see what kind of support there was for acts of terrorism, to find numbers in the 20-30℅ that firmly agreed with violent reprisal to, for instance, drawing Muhammad, and a vast majority held some very conservative Islamic views.

Again you bring these examples... These anecdotes. Or something about their food.

I feel "at home" with my own race, more than others, am more likely to trust them, and build stronger connections to them. This is true of most people. This can morph into "racism", especially when we are shamed over this very natural, natural state of affinity/likeness. And this extends to religion as well; I probably trust Christian Lebanese more than Muslim Lebanese. I'm not Christian myself, the same way many are (but I have a Christ complex of sorts), but I identify more with them, and would probably prefer a Christian wife to any other, or at least one that was very culturally Christian. There are ways we identify. Race is one, but religion is another, and one that is even harder to bridge in respects. Shared religion (in truth) can be the bridge.
 
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The natural state of life is naturally segregated.
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This is just false.
It may be the world you're familiar with, but not me. Segregated communities are completely - erm, foreign to me.
My neighbours are from all over the world.
It makes for vibrant, healthy communities.
Lack of genetic diversity leads to inbreeding. If you want to talk about evolution, diversity makes for genetic strength.

And culturally? Not everywhere in the world has ethnic ghettos.
Cultural enclaves, sure - but i live in an area with a large muslim population (a block or two from a large mosque, and there are dozens of halal supermarkets and restaurants within a 20min walk) - and i really love it.
It's vibrant, it's interesting, it's culturally rich.

When you are afraid of things that are different, you're the one missing out on experiencing a broader spectrum of humanity.

To paraphrase trump - do you really think our countries (yours and mine) are innocent? Of course they're not!
It's one of the few honest things he's said.
 
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