2017 Trump Presidency Thread

[spacejunk]

yeah, partisan state news networks are always a great source of "facts"

it's a good thing trump protects people from vested interests (of which he has none, because he says so)

 

[Shimmer.Fade]

Not only do they get scrutiny, they get the Attorney-General & the Director of the FBI to cover for them when investigators have found direct evidence of serious crimes.

Source please? Seems like wildly dishonest speculation.

 

[Soso78]

Ye trump should shut down all those other news channels and just have his.
Seems to work ok for North Korea.

 

[spacejunk]

Interesting to see how Trump's apologists will just accept anything he says or does. This guy could kill his wife you'd all be saying she must have done something wrong. Come on! You agree and accept and defend just about anything he does, which is strange. Obama followers and activists complained about things he did wrong. However - Trump's followers will just have to agree with whatever it is that he does, no matter what. E.g. Bigot, "no problem"! Lying son of a gun, "not at all". Insane and contradicting tweets 3 am with silly messages (not to mention incorrect), "no absolutely not!" Government Official (President) is hiding his income taxes for Christ's sake and you all say "sure, it's okay.."

It's not only me and everyone else I know that thinks that way. Criticism is not bad, it can be quite enriching IMHO.

exactly. holding politicians to account is the basis of democracy.
this 'cult of personality', trump-can-do-no-wrong attitude is as dangerous as it is perplexing.
what you say about obama is absolutely true - i was overjoyed when he was elected, but i was disappointed by a lot of things he did - and i have never been afraid to criticise people i've voted for either.

909 people died in Jonestown, a lot of them from the Kool-Aid they drank voluntarily, knowing what was in it. WTF it is with humans, I don't know.

i don't know how apt the Jonestown reference is, because the people that drank the kool aid were surrounded y men with machine guns, so how 'voluntary' it was is debatable.
we're not at that point yet - but you can count on the USA becoming a nasty authoritarian nightmare if trump and his cronies are able to dismantle the democratic process unopposed.

the sad thing about a lot of his supporters - especially the poor and elderly - is that they're among those who will be worst hit by his agenda, but they're too blinded by this bizarre trump worship to realise they're getting screwed.
what do you call someone who lets a creepy old man fuck their family while they watch?

a cuckold, yeah?

the ironies just keep piling up higher and higher. like a big trash mountain of garbage and bullshit and tacky red baseball caps.

 

[LiquidMethod]

people consider trump supporters 'cult-like' because you guys seem incapable of questioning or criticising him.

What? I criticize him all the time. Many of his supporters don't listen to the criticism because most of it is inane nonsense. If everyone decided to criticize him fairly then we would have a much more productive discussion.

and it's pretty silly to assume everyone that opposes trump is a liberal - or "libtard" as you so eloquently put it.
we are a broad coalition of people who oppose tyranny, mysogyny and racism. i'm certainly not a liberal.

It's also silly to assume that every Trump supporter is a right-wing, racist, sexist, russian redneck. Many good liberal people support Trump. Many progressives too who may not support him outright but they defend him because they know what's right and want to see their DNC leadership replaced.

The Rep. Party and the people aren't supporting him.

I know because he's a not a Republican, who are all mostly in the same gang as the Democrats. The party system is illusory and we're witnessing criminal conspiracy with both parties colluding and attempting a coup d'etat against a democratically-elected President. The people are supporting him though. They're just silent about it as they've been made to feel intimidated from displaying any public support for Trump.

The lowest approval rates, now 33% And it's funny because I didn't need a paper or a magazine to tell me that. It's so obvious. But you can't see that.

We don't trust polls anymore, for obvious reasons. I can see that there is a substantial (and very vocal) segment of the population that are against him. I can understand why.

Can't you see how divided the country is. But again you can't see that, I forget. That is my point.

As much as I enjoy the political chaos, this does sadden me. I was hoping he could unite a nation against an oppressive and increasingly totalitarian establishment, but alas. I also think it's a shame that so many were unable to enjoy one of the most miraculous and joyous moments in history, when Trump won the election. Instead it was a moment of fear and terror for a lot of people, you can blame the media for this.

Look up, like I once told you, pick a country and read their news when it comes to Trump.

It's the same people running many media sources, irrespective of their location. The alternative media reports on Trump much more objectively. The mainstream media is dying. Journalists are now PR agents for politicians.

For most people I know, from most reports I've read, Trump is someone who is not bringing people together, who is far from achieving his goals. He is just an arrogant narcissist. Sorry to break that to you. And you can tell that from his actions that you value so much.

Obama was an arrogant narcissist, everyone loved Obama. Trump is just more blatant with it. All politicians are narcissists. It's like saying that Trump is a liar. Yes sometimes you need to lie in politics (let's be realistic). The media is constantly at you trying to get you to slip up, so at times you have to bullshit them to stick to your agenda while not getting caught out with lawyer-speak word-salad.

 

[LiquidMethod]

Source please? Seems like wildly dishonest speculation.

Really? This is fact now.
Hillary Clinton was caught removing classified documents from secure government networks and placing them on a private server, unencrypted (including cloud storage) for 3 months. If it was anyone except for Hillary or a powerful politician that did this it would have been considered an incredibly severe crime. It is basically giving state secrets to multiple foreign enemy governments. So of course there was no way Queen Hillary was going to jail. Enter her buddies - Comey testified under oath that Loretta Lynch ordered him to refer to the criminal investigation as a "matter" when dealing with the media. Bill Clinton met with Loretta Lynch in a private plane on an airport tarmac while his wife was under FBI investigation. We do not know what they spoke about but many surmise that it wasn't "golf, grandchildren and Brexit".

So when it comes to mishandling classified information the intent of the perpetrator is irrelevant, however the way that Comey got out of d̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶j̶o̶b̶ recommending charges for Clinton to the DOJ was stating that the FBI could not find intent with her actions. If we think about it there is a lot wrong with this conclusion from Comey. Not only is intent irrelevant in cases of violating the Espionage Act, but there was obvious intent. Obama even lied to the public stating that he found out about Clinton's server from the media like everyone else, but we have Cheryl Mills on email saying “We need to clean this up — he (Obama) has emails from her — they do not say state.gov,”. Also let's suspend our disbelief and buy this story that she committed crimes due to oblivious incompetency. In that case she could not have been considered "the most qualified candidate ever" as qualified officials do not unknowingly endanger national security.

Let me remind you that we have direct evidence of these crimes that would easily get anyone else convicted and sent away for a very long time. 22 top secret emails, retroactively-classified information. All there on a bathroom server unprotected for the Russians to steal (this is the actual Russian hacking scandal). But that's basically how the AG & FBI Director colluded to get Clinton off the hook. One of the (if not the) most blatant cover-ups and perversions of justice that I have ever witnessed.

 

[spacejunk]

It's also silly to assume that every Trump supporter is a right-wing, racist, sexist, russian redneck. Many good liberal people support Trump.

that may well be the case - but i was talking about trump, not his supporters.

i refer to trump's supporters in the previous sentence of mine you quoted -

people consider trump supporters 'cult-like' because you guys seem incapable of questioning or criticising him.

this sentence, the one you are quoting, is directed at trump -

we are a broad coalition of people who oppose tyranny, mysogyny and racism

just because i happen to disagree with you, doesn't mean i'm always putting you down or flaming you. i'm much more interested in discussing it in a civil manner, but i think you're under the impression that those of us who disagree with you are all ganging up on you, but it's simply that not many people that post here like donald trump.
most people think he's full of shit, so you're going to have a tough time arguing that he's ok.


if i say that i'm opposed to "tyranny, mysogyny and racism" - i'm not aiming that at you, and if you feel like that's being inferred - it's only because you agree with him.
i would say that i think trump is a really toxic political force either way - whether you agree with him or not.

if it makes you uncomfortable that i'm saying that you are fervently supporting a guy who is "right-wing, racist, sexist, russian redneck" (your words, not mine) - you might want to examine why that is.

you can't act insulted about being called racist, when i never said or even implied that you were.
the guy you support definitely is, but that's something for you to resolve.

 

[alasdairm]

It's also silly to assume that every Trump supporter is a right-wing, racist, sexist, russian redneck.

i agree. but who in here is doing that?

you're the one in here calling us libtards. i invite you to stop the name calling, please?

We don't trust polls anymore, for obvious reasons.

trump loves polls which tell him what he wants to hear and dismisses those that don't as 'fake news'.

alasdair

 

[LiquidMethod]

I read your whole post with an open mind to see your side of the story then you write:

you can't act insulted about being called racist, when i never said or even implied that you were.
the guy you support definitely is, but that's something for you to resolve.

Trump is not racist, Do you have evidence of him being racist? (don't confuse racism with political correctness)

Tyranny....
Misogyny..... ????

If you are against tyranny then you are anti-deep state/globalists.

If you are against misogyny then you are against Hillary Clinton. A woman who voted for sanctions against Iraq that left hundreds of thousands of women and children dead. She took b̶r̶i̶b̶e̶s̶ money from a regime that stones rape victims. She helped introduce legislation in the 90s that devastated black families. Want an example of racism? Clinton called black youth "super-predators".

 

[LiquidMethod]

you're the one in here calling us libtards. i invite you to stop the name calling, please?

lol ok but you keep continually picking on me.

And I did not begin with the name-calling. All of a sudden I start getting attacked for voicing a differing and more truthful opinion.

 

[spacejunk]

^ picking on you?

really?

if you can't be civil in response to someone disagreeing with you in a politics thread you probably shouldn't be posting there.
it's really that simple.

I read your whole post with an open mind to see your side of the story then you write:

"open mind" eh? if you say so.

Trump is not racist, Do you have evidence of him being racist? (don't confuse racism with political correctness)

trump is racist.
any evidence i give you'll reject anyway - so i won't waste my time

Tyranny....

yes

Misogyny..... ????

"grab em by the pussy"

If you are against tyranny then you are anti-deep state/globalists.

i'm against trump

If you are against misogyny then you are against Hillary Clinton. A woman who voted for sanctions against Iraq that left hundreds of thousands of women and children dead. She took b̶r̶i̶b̶e̶s̶ money from a regime that stones rape victims. She helped introduce legislation in the 90s that devastated black families. Want an example of racism? Clinton called black youth "super-predators".

um....what does any of that have to do with me?


it's really strange to have someone act like that they have no idea what you're talking about when you say donald trump is a bigot (give me a brea) and then come back at me about hillary clinton of all things.
don't you have a better argument than "attack hillary"?
you're not donald trump, and i'm not a bloody clinton supporter. it just demonstrates that you're either parroting your Dear Leader, or straight up trolling (if there's a difference).

i can't work out whether you actually believe your schtick though.

can you give me some kind of code to tell me if this is a put-on? make sure they're not codes for top secret pizza shop paedophile rings, because that could get you in a world of trouble 8)

 

[Scrofula]

Don't forget his involvement with Miss America, not exactly the pinnacle of women's liberation, whether he watches them in the dressing rooms or not.

Guys who serially wed models aren't known for their openness to the Equal Rights Amendment.

But really wanted to say, as to racist allegations, which are always bad to make because no one can defend themselves against them, in Trump's case they aren't allegations, but part of the public record. He's been almost legally declared a racist in court, after being found guilty of discriminating against blacks in housing.

ETA: this was all well known before the election. It was part of his image. And to think some of his supporters didn't also support those attitudes is ridiculous.

And liquid, I almost married a woman from one of those oppressive regimes. Clearly I'm a misogynist.

And yeah, have to say, nothing Liquid's said counters, and everything he's said supports, what you'd expect to hear from a Russian Govt troll. Only reason I don't believe it yet, is I can't believe they'd pay him enough to put out this much wordage.

(Those trolls were shown to be quite real, btw, it's not just my meth delusions talking)

 

[David Wooderson]

It's like that guy who holds up the exit line at WalMart cause he refuses to show his receipt.

I am that person, I never stop for those ppl, I walk right through and if they say anything I tell them to bug the real police.

Funny thing is that the 4th amendment is nullified when you are on private property, amusement parks come to mind where they can search you, at will, without cause.

Suddenly Miss America is pizzagate?

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

This guy could kill his wife you'd all be saying she must have done something wrong.

Well, she is an immigrant...

 

[Erikmen]

Hehe of course.

 

[Scrofula]

I am that person, I never stop for those ppl, I walk right through and if they say anything I tell them to bug the real police.

Funny thing is that the 4th amendment is nullified when you are on private property, amusement parks come to mind where they can search you, at will, without cause.

Suddenly Miss America is pizzagate?

Private property, like in WalMart.

And there's plenty of "Sovereign Citizens" who don't understand the difference, walk right through the exit. They probably think they have "freedom of speech" in there too.

And that last line, ???

ETA: technically, the 4th amendment is never "nullified". It just doesn't apply to private citizens. If you are in an amusement park, private property, the police still need a warrant or probable cause to search. Whether the owners can search your bags or not is not a right they have, but part of a contract you agree to when you enter. IOW, refusing a search is a breach of contract, a civil case, not criminal. So if the police were called, the only thing they could do is make sure you don't get beat up by old lady who just wants to see your receipt.

 

[LiquidMethod]

can you give me some kind of code to tell me if this is a put-on? make sure they're not codes for top secret pizza shop paedophile rings, because that could get you in a world of trouble 8)

This is an example of losing an argument. Also is basically an ad hom.

if you can't be civil in response to someone disagreeing with you in a politics thread you probably shouldn't be posting there.

Questioning my sanity is also not very civil political discourse.

trump is racist.
any evidence i give you'll reject anyway - so i won't waste my time

I know that Trump is not racist. You are calling him racist which is a very serious accusation. I asked you to provide evidence to back your claim yet you refuse (although you did manage to again insert that he was a bigot.)

um....what does any of that have to do with me?

You stated that you were against racism, tyranny and misogyny. Except if you were you would condemn Clinton's actions and agree that they are worse (or at the very least equally as bad but let's be real).

i'm against trump

Exactly you're against Trump, You are not against tyranny, misogyny or racism.

you're either parroting your Dear Leader, or straight up trolling (if there's a difference).

I am not trolling when I point out uncomfortable truths or hypocritical accusations.

Why did Trump's companies have so many females in executive roles who often made more money than their male counterparts for doing superior work?

Don't forget his involvement with Miss America, not exactly the pinnacle of women's liberation,

Contestants and especially winners in that competition have been able to improve their lives and the lives of others in significant ways. Whether tastefully or not, those events celebrate women.

Guys who serially wed models aren't known for their openness to the Equal Rights Amendment.

Someone who loves beautiful women automatically doesn't respect them? Weird assumption.

He's been almost legally declared a racist in court, after being found guilty of discriminating against blacks in housing.

"Almost". Do you also mention how his private golf club was the first in the area to allow blacks & Jews as members when all others did not?
Why did Trump do better with minorities than Romney in the election if he was so racist?

And yeah, have to say, nothing Liquid's said counters, and everything he's said supports, what you'd expect to hear from a Russian Govt troll. Only reason I don't believe it yet, is I can't believe they'd pay him enough to put out this much wordage.

Another argument loss. Once you label me a Kremlin employee lol (I've heard it before don't worry) then you forfeit your credibility. I'm just speaking straight and requesting evidence when people talk shit. When an opposing argument makes more sense than yours - label it Russian propaganda.

 

[David Wooderson]

Super pissed that Trump did not declare the opiod crisis a national emergency.

He seemed to be the only candidate beside Chris Christie that ever talked about the problem.

I should have known when they appointed somebody with an obvious food addiction to head the opiate commission that there would be no fucks given.

But I held out hope that Trump's loss of his own brother to addiction would have made him more involved still hold out hope for that.

His plan to combat the opiate/opiod crisis is "“best way to prevent drug addiction and overdose is to prevent people from abusing drugs in the first place.”“If they don’t start, they won’t have a problem. If they do start, it’s awfully tough to get off, So if we can keep them from going on — and maybe by talking to youth and telling them: ‘No good, really bad for you in every way.’ But if they don’t start, it will never be a problem.”.

So much can be done, but then healthcare and insurance companies wouldn't get richer.

Perhaps nalxone implants will become a part of the child immunization process b/c that's the only way his plan would work.

Oh well that's politics.....

 

[Erikmen]

now - regarding these "fire and fury" comments about North Korea.
how's trump going as a peacemaker diplomat? seems to be stumbling into nuclear holocaust.

this is just great, thanks for electing a braindead mutant, america.

These comments Trump made are indeed quite dangerous and have caused real problems.
It clearly indicates how little he knows about Foreign Policy.

He's risking putting others in dangerous. He obviously doesn't understand the seriousness of his fallacy.
China is silent. Japan and South Korea, not to mention Guam could suffer the consequences in the worst scenario.
Unfit for office and very irresponsible to say the least.

 

[swilow]

I have somewhat arbirtraily split off some of the posts regarding Clinton into its own thread.

As it is a topic that continue to rear its head, and there are and should be concerns about the integrity of the Clinton's, I think its worth having a chat about. So, please avoid discussing that stuff here.

Sorry for breaking continuity