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16mg Suboxone per day 5 years to NOTHING! Terrified

So I came across this statement:Abrupt discontinuation of Suboxone can lead to panic attacks, seizure, heart failure and severe depression. http://www.thehillscenter.com/addiction/suboxone/can-use-lead-to-addiction/. I decided to call my general physician answering service. Asked to have dr call. Dr called. She had no idea what Suboxone is! She did not have me in her files. (I have been a patient there for over ten years). This was a "doctor" on call. She got real bitchy with me and said that I sounded "fine". She said that i should call my suboxone dr. on Monday. I said OK-but I already called her two times on Friday and my mother tried to call her on Thursday. This on call dr said that i was calling about a psyciatric emergency. I said no, I am calling because I just read something that said "heart failure" and seizure, and I stopped taking t---she kept cutting me off. Then she said that she was going to see my suboxone dr. on Monday and that she "better" hear that I called her.(!)---I said well then why don't you just ask her if I called her two times on friday and i will try to call her on Monday but I am only going to call someone who does not call me back so many times.
I didn't mention that I may have had heart failure by then. She said that she had no idea what suboxone is and that it was a psychiatric drug and that I was not going to have a seizure or heart failure. how would she know that if she doesn't know what it is? The dr that i see is not in a psyc. office it is an addiction office but the dr is probably a psychiatrist? So that is why she was assuming that I was an annoying mental patient?--(that is how she talked to me). I wrote down what she said to me before she hung-up. I also wrote down her name. She said, "I am not going to have this discussion with you-click".!
 
IMO i would chill a little on this approach.. kinda a dont poke the animals approach.. cause opiate withdrawal doesn't cause a heart attack unless you were pretty much going to have an attack in the first place and this and many other warnings (if i had to guess from the damn PDR- physicians desk reference~ more of what is in there was written by lawyers working for doctors) are designed to protect the medical community from getting sued so if you poke the animals they usually poke back;)

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Yep-if the pain comes back I will go straight to a nerve med. Narcotics didn't really do anything for a sharp nerve pain, maybe dulled it a little.
The heart-attack scare is one I have been preoccupied with and I was trying to figure that out.
So I'm guessing that I am so used to my monthly appt. where they check my pulse and pressure and since I did not have that this month it is a mental withdrawal from that in a way. Also I tend to have fibrillations in w-drawl but this only seems to be happening now when I'm on the verge of panicking about this situation.
Also at this point I am afraid to take anything unless it has been prescribed and I'm pretty sure that I may need something to help me get through this. Even Imodium-I'm wondering if that could cause precipitated w-drawl if I can go back on the suboxone. At this point I'm hoping to talk to a medical professional but unfortunately I'm not having any luck with that either.
I found a number for the local detox unit and I have it in my phone. If I have to call anyone else I will try them.
 
Loperamide (Imodium) does act well as a suboxone substitute. When withdrawals begin to hit take 10-12mgs to start and wait 4 hours, if you are still experiencing WDs take another 10-12mgs, repeat again in 4hours~. Don't exceed more than 40mgs/day.

Loperamide works as an opioid-receptor agonist and acts on the μ-opioid receptors just as suboxone and other opiates(oids). It has limitations with crossing the BBB (blood brain barrier) thus restricting you from getting a buzz/high but it does work similar to suboxone at fulfilling the receptors need for the drug.

Goodluck <3 Trust me.

This should not be used as a long term substitute to suboxone. It should be used to get you through the initial withdrawal period only.
 
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If you knew you were going to be running out why did you continue taking 8mg BID??

Even if you had gone down to one a day you probably wouldn't have even noticed the difference. When I was at 16mg/ day I know I cut down to 4mg per day overnight and had absolutely no withdrawal symptoms. Now I'm at 2mg per day. I ran out a while back and had to buy some to keep myself afloat. I cut down to .5-1mg/day and had absolutely no symptoms.

You could have been fine if you'd have stretched that out a bit. Try to find another eight or two from wherever and take 2mg a day.
 
Yeah- that was dumb. I go every month for DR visit and urine test. I've been having a little trouble with my payment---this particular place took my insurance for years and then changed policy about two years ago. So when I went for the appt. I was hoping that being there was more important than having the $$.--nope, I have not saved any and if I had i would have run out at some point, so I guess I thought that as long as I was under medical care that it would be OK?

So I had another FULL night of sleep. (insomnia/terrible/worst-ever--for the past six months or so).........................any severe symptoms are taking awhile. Giving me some time I guess to think about this while the crap oozes out of my system.

I have not been outside of the house or changed my clothes since Friday but I'm out of smokes now and someone else is using the car so I may have to attempt a bike trip to the store. I was up earlier but the task seemed too monumental so I just went back to sleep. I'm very lethargic--but it really is not bad-(yet). Its not the kind of lethargic where I feel like I should be doing something, so that is not too bad ---and not that overly-drugged kind of tired/nodding-out, either. Some chills and nothing else worth complaining about, except the worry of course.

After that great night of sleep I thought back to the old days trying to detox using over-the-counter that had anti-histamine for help sleeping and I was so thankful that someone here mentioned that that could bring-on RLS----nope, not yet.
 
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Update--I know that something is not right with the way that I am being treated here (not meaning this forum ha ha-but here where i am.Ty everyone here and i am hoping the best for you all). I have decided to journal, with names etc. everything for a couple reasons. One--OK-I know that I am being dramatic here, but "just in case", something goes seriously wrong, I want my kids to be able to have this investigated. And 2--I am considering contacting the legal departments of my insurance and the various numbers and places that I have contacted. Also my report for the governor if I pursue that-and for my own mind as well.
I'm working backwards from today on that and I got to the part about the nasty woman who I spoke with last night when I called my GP's office. I looked up her name and she is not a doctor. I don't know what she is but I asked her twice if she was a doctor and she was evasive and insulted by that question with a jargon answer. I wish that I had a recording of that call it was really nasty and I'm thinking about calling her again if I can figure out a way to record it haha. (yes it was that bad).
I don't want to mention the "L"-(legal department), word to these people yet because I am worried that my non-existent care could even become worse if that is possible.
I'm going to try and make it through today and then go to the GP office tomorrow. If I feel truly horrible I may just go to the ER and at least have my vitals, BP heart-rate checked. Right now I am fine but very nauseous. I would think that I should be able to speak to someone in my doctor's office about this but I guess not.
 
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If you are not planning on jumping off this medication why dont you get some loperamide or kratom and just take a deap breath.. i really think you are getting all worked up and will see little or no benefit out of the actions you are trying to take. Infact you may just get negative results.

kratom >here<
loperamide and withdrawals >here<

hang in there<3 but i would consider getting this kinda quick as you will likely be in full withdrawal buy tonight or tomorrow.
 
This is one of those nightmare scenarios everyone on ORT is scared to death of having happen to them! I feel for you, I really do....16mgs of Suboxone is a very high dose to just jump off of, and the chances of it not being "that bad" after 5 years is pretty low. Cold Turkey in this situation is "doable" sure, but unless that was my only option I would go another route...

I had a kind of similar situation a few years ago...I got dropped by my Suboxone doctor for dirty urines...After that, I switched to methadone. After testing dirty 5 times in a row for benzos, I got kicked off methadone as well. I tried to get on methadone at another clinic, but what I didn't realize is that there was a database in place that all the methadone clinics had access to....The doctor that kicked me off methadone wrote a notation that I needed "a higher level of care"...This essentially blackballed me from getting on methadone on any clinic in my state! Also, what could possibly be considered "a higher level of care" than methadone?

I've been kicked off of Suboxone by 2 or three different doctors, not proud to say, but they've always written me one last script to detox myself with when they terminated me as a patient. To not do that, particularly with someone on 16mgs a day, is just inhumane!

Everything you could possibly do in this scenario has been mentioned already. when I got kicked off Suboxone and methadone, I was barely using them as prescribed anyway...I was pretty much on heroin full time and just using the Suboxone as a backup...so I guess I just got what I deserved, but in your case, this just seems extremely unfair, to say the least...

A detox will give you methadone or sub...Then there's an actual methadone clinic...There's some ER doctors that will write you and emergency script for Sub...there's getting other opiates to tide you over....there's a lot you can do other than just sit there waiting to get sick, because when that sickness kicks in, you'll be lucky to have the power to even make phone calls and drive yourself around! Have a plan in place for what you're gonna do now! Don't wait!
 
Thank-you so much for caring and understanding everyone. For now I'm thinking that to start taking anything other than suboxone would surely lead to my future-self feeling worse than I do right now--(which is still not too bad). IF I were to get back on it this week. My current plan is to see my GP tomorrow and ask for something for my stomach and check my blood-pressure etc. and maybe whatever non-narcotic that they can recommend. I am praying that this doesn't hit me too hard and there is still that chance.

I know that any time that I ever saw anyone post something like that I would think-HORRORS!......yes I know that it is not likely and I guess it is more likely that I just had a lot of this in my system and it is taking it's time to make me ill.

I have not mentioned that I wasn't exactly happy with the suboxone, but I am too much of a drug-addict and a chicken to have decided to taper. Or if I ever did make that decision, it didn't last a day. But I consoled myself that maybe by not completely abusing the drug, or other substances, that I was at least a candidate for recovery.

Right now I don't even have any doctor's orders to follow or not follow ha ha, so the best that I can do is wait it out until it gets too hard to cope.

No offense meant to anyone who would handle this some other way. The thought of, "oh-maybe enough is out of my system, at least maybe I could reward myself with a nice high or at least be able to do something", has crossed my mind a few times. But I have always thought that this suboxone is a really weird drug, and although I don't feel "well" right now, I really am liking the chance to clear some of this crap out of my head.

I also know that if I were feeling a little bit better, that it could actually be a trigger for me to get busy finding some way to drug myself or feel even better than that. Like I may be getting to a point where I'm too under the weather to care. And if it is bearable physically, I actually feel a little bit more mentally stronger to fight cravings-(only had some mild ones really not even as bad as nicotine-cravings so far).

I do not consider myself anywhere near sober, but maybe Seiko was on to something by moving this here for me? More being hopeful--if I actually make it to day 8 or 9, ok if I make it a week, THEN I will begin to covet sobriety. I don't want to fool myself too much when everything that I have experienced and studied tells me that the worst, (physically) has not started yet. But during those past somewhat miserable years on suboxone, I was hoping that maybe there was a chance that I could just "walk-off" of it.-OK I'll shut up now that is the crazy talking.
 
Well-I made it to monday morning without dieing. And without any wear and tear on my body either from what I can tell.
So let me update: On sub since about a year after it was legal. Started at 4mg per day with the 2mg orange tablets. Went off it twice. The 1st time----shortly after starting and a weird withdrawal but very very doable IF I had known what to expect. (about a month after that someone put some pills in my hand and I was weak and dumb).
Then, on for about 3 years at 4mg and being weaned to 2mg. Was on 2mg for about a year. THAT year was spent in "eternal"-withdrawal and my body was in BAD SHAPE from that. My heart rhythm was screwed-up at that point.
Changed doctors. Two 8 mg tablets-then the strips per day, or 60 per month for what I think is a little over five years.

On Thursday I used 8mg in the morning. I lived through the weekend! Nauseous-yes. Lethargic-yes. Panic-attacks-a few (over this situation but not severe, just crying mostly).
Now that it is Monday I can feel it setting in a little stronger but I still have not sneezed once yet. My heart is pounding fast but not erratic as far as I can tell and that just started when I woke up.
It has been four days. 97---almost 100 hours, and I am "OK". Just wanted to update here in case anyone wonders what could happen although everyone is different.
 
So I just found out that my doctor is sick. I knew something was up with her. They have now offered me a "detox" script. I said that I don't know and that maybe I should ct, but that I really wanted to talk to a doctor. They pushed me into making a choice between detox script and seeing Dr on Thursday continuing maintenance. A five day detox script.
They said that they do not recommend cold turkey---finally someone at least says that, I thought I was going crazy.
So I said OK-I'll take the detox script. Maybe the dr will call me because they have to call her for that but at least they should call me back.
 
I was on Buprenorphine and Alprazolam for 4+years. I jumped off of everything all at once, and I didn't have cannabis to aid in the affair like I typically would for withdrawals. It really isn't a bad withdrawal. When I was cooped up with my girlfriend going through the same issue, it seemed a lot worse, but when I went to an in-patient for a month, I refused meds and I didn't have any problem until the second week. That just felt like a minor flu, with minor pain in my bones similar to growing pains. I also had a heart issue, coupled with several other worse ones, before I switched to Subutex, but if you're having problems with doctors that prescribe Suboxone, don't even bring up Subutex. Doctors like to protect prescription patent secrets.

I hope everything goes well for you. Just know that if you end up going to methadone use, you're trading something a whole lot more worse for what you already had, and I haven't met many people that made it out of the clinics. Those that did make it out just left to get other opioids/opiates. Regardless of your decision, it is up to you to do it, so if you really want to stop, nothing will prevent you from doing so.
 
ItsAll- You are my hero! And yes, On friday when I was at the M-done clinic, filling-out an application, for a minute there it looked like it would be possible to switch to that and it was tempting but I feel like I would be throwing away anything that I have gained by not being on a full-opiate. I did ask if anyone has used m-done to detox from suboxone but they looked at me like I was crazy. I don't have the transportation for that and I don't think that I could drive under those effects either so I'm not looking at that as an option.
Still waiting to hear from DR. I'm laughing to myself at how she is going to figure out how to detox me IN FIVE DAYS! At this point I really don't want to take it. But it would be a relief to be under dr's orders and to have something on hand besides the T3s and half a roxy that I have been saving. (yes I am proud of myself for not using that yet)
 
The elimination half-life of buprenorphine is 20–73 hours (mean 37) from Wikipedia. So at least half of this is out of my system? I have not been doing anything or eating much. So I'll just assume that I'm on the slow-end of this. With that line of thinking-it could all be out of my system by Wednesday?
 
That is on one dose. I'm pretty sure when you take it for a few days, it builds up in your system. I remember seeing a chart somewhere on BL that showed a nice graph. I forget what the duration for taking 16mg/day was, but I think I remember seeing something like 246hours(ballpark of what I remember, of course) for half-life. I'll try to find that for you, but I wanted to respond fast since you're on here waiting it seems.

Are you asking for drug testing purposes or sensory function?
 
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Thank-you itsall, and I am asking because I am trying to gauge my withdrawl progress. It was not a taper/wean, just a complete ct about one hundred hours ago. I understand about the build-up, but at my "stop-point" without adding anything else, I would think that detox would begin? Thank-you for any opinions or info. you can offer here.
Still waiting to hear from DR. I'll call back after lunch if I don't get a call. My stomach is in knots, but nothing "violent".
 
I'm a little confused over where you're currently at right now. I just stayed up all night, so I could make it in to work today. Attention span isn't the greatest of sorts at the moment. It's really hard to gauge how something with a pro-longed half-life on the sensory will get out. It could take the maximum time one day, and then, down the line, it could be out in the shortest of times. It's really dependent on your neurochemical output and absorption rate. If you're going to be completely idle, it will take longer than if you were engaged mentally and/or physically.

The best thing to do is not to really worry about the time it's going to come into full gear. That will only make it that much worse. Drink plenty of fluids, have candy or whatever source of sugar you prefer at hand, and moderate caffeine intake won't hurt anything either. Video games and music production kept me from completely climbing up the walls on several occasions. Unfortunately, video games were sometimes the most physical demanding activity I would want to get involved with at that point in time, but always remember your mind really is making it a lot more harsh than it really is. If you can fight through it and move around, it will be a much more smoother process. Maybe it won't seem that way in the beginning, but it will, trust me.
 
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