Meth ⫸Methamphetamine Megathread⫷

[Atomic_Decay]

Meth is generally a fairly high potency compared to other street drugs. Like 90% is pretty normal. It's a little more potent then dextroamphetamine, so I don't know why many are recommending 100mg+ shots. 20mg is enough to get extreme euphoria; if you start off with 100mg it may feel nicer at first but then 20mg won't be enough anymore. People mess up their tolerance like that with most drugs.

Dextromethamphetamine will be about 130% more potent than racemic methamphetamine. Also the type of salt form changes its potency too. HCl will be more potent than sulfate, and the amino acid salts in Adderall are even less potent. That's why Dexedrine is about 1.75x more potent then Adderall even though Adderall is 75% dextroamphetamine, it's only dextroamphetamine sulfate. Adderall has a much heavier mix of salts.

Can you flesh out how you get those numerical values for relative potency?

D-meth 130 % > DL-meth

D-amp 175 % > Adderall

My understanding is that the L enantiomer of meth in racemic meth quite perceptibly changes the subjective experience by its action in peripheral nervous system - so a like for like potency equivalence is a bit problematic.

Also, where do you think one might ever come across amphetamine hydrochloride (vs usual sulfate) or methamphetamine sulfate (vs usual HCL)? Why do you say HCL is more potent than sulfate? I’m not questioning truth of this but I’d like to know why?

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I think because there's not an excruciating physical addiction, it's the comedown you're feeling the most. It is extremely psychologically addictive, don't get me wrong.

Opioid, barbituate, and benzodiazepine withdrawal makes you so sick you feel like you're dieing if you were on a heavy dose.

Opioid withdrawal is by far the worst feeling, that's why substitution therapy with methadone and buprenorphine is a lifetime thing for many addicts. It's hellish restlessness that you can feel going down the nerves of your arms and legs, with flu like symptoms, temperature disregulation, sweating, unable to eat or sleep. It doesn't fully go away for a year or more. You can go to work without meth after chronic daily use, but for opioid withdrawal you wouldn't be able to do anything productive and hiding because you look obviously sick.

True.

I find stimulant (especially meth) crashes after a binge are sort of similar to opioid withdrawal in a way though.
Hot flashes, extreme lethargy, boredom, even aching & pain. But they're different in their own way and I'd say opioid withdrawal can definitely be worse.

 

[purplehaze147]

Can you flesh out how you get those numerical values for relative potency?

D-meth 130 % > DL-meth

D-amp 175 % > Adderall

My understanding is that the L enantiomer of meth in racemic meth quite perceptibly changes the subjective experience by its action in peripheral nervous system - so a like for like potency equivalence is a bit problematic.

Also, where do you think one might ever come across amphetamine hydrochloride (vs usual sulfate) or methamphetamine sulfate (vs usual HCL)? Why do you say HCL is more potent than sulfate? I’m not questioning truth of this but I’d like to know why?

First off the simple question. The HCl salt is more potent than the sulfate salt because HCl has a smaller molar mass. If you put a gram of HCl and a gram of sulfate on a scale, the HCl will have more amphetamine molecules since there's 6.022E23 molecules in a mole. Hydrogen is ~1 atomic mass units (a single proton for the most abundant isotope) and chloride has 35.4 atomic mass units (17 protons, 18 neutrons usually) making for 36.4 g/mol. Sulfate, or has 96.1 atomic mass units and two acidic functional groups when sulfuric acid before sulfuric acid reacts and forms a sulfate anion with a base at 2:1 moles of base and sulfuric acid allowing for 2 amphetamine molecules for every 1. So amphetamine freebase is 135.21 moles of amphetamine per gram.

There's 135.21 + 35.4 = 170.4 moles of amphetamine HCl in a gram, while there's 135.21 + 84.25/2 moles = 177.34 moles of amphetamine sulfate in a gram.

93.10/135.21 then multiplied by Avagado's number makes 0.69 moles of amphetamine in a gram of amphetamine sulfate. This makes there 5.91E17 or 591,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of amphetamine per gram amphetamine hemisulfate.

135.21- 35.4 = 170.61 mol/g making 135.21/170.61= 0.79 moles of amphetamine in a gram of amphetamine HCl making 6.81E17 or 681,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of amphetamine in a gram of amphetamine HCl

Therefore there's almost 100 quadrillion molecules more of amphetamine per gram of amphetamine HCl than 1 gram of amphetamine sulfate.

That took longer than expected to explain. I'll answer the other question later.

 

[Lokileehack87]

In my opinion (as a non-meth user and harm-reductionist) this is EXACTLY the kind of thread we need. The people who are going to IV meth are going to IV meth. I'd prefer they did it with some kind of guidance. The more harmful the drug, the more harm-reduction and education necessary

how do I post info about injecting?

 

[Atomic_Decay]

First off the simple question. The HCl salt is more potent than the sulfate salt because HCl has a smaller molar mass. If you put a gram of HCl and a gram of sulfate on a scale, the HCl will have more amphetamine molecules since there's 6.022E23 molecules in a mole. Hydrogen is ~1 atomic mass units (a single proton for the most abundant isotope) and chloride has 35.4 atomic mass units (17 protons, 18 neutrons usually) making for 36.4 g/mol. Sulfate, or has 96.1 atomic mass units and two acidic functional groups when sulfuric acid before sulfuric acid reacts and forms a sulfate anion with a base at 2:1 moles of base and sulfuric acid allowing for 2 amphetamine molecules for every 1. So amphetamine freebase is 135.21 moles of amphetamine per gram.

There's 135.21 + 35.4 = 170.4 moles of amphetamine HCl in a gram, while there's 135.21 + 84.25/2 moles = 177.34 moles of amphetamine sulfate in a gram.

93.10/135.21 then multiplied by Avagado's number makes 0.69 moles of amphetamine in a gram of amphetamine sulfate. This makes there 5.91E17 or 591,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of amphetamine per gram amphetamine hemisulfate.

135.21- 35.4 = 170.61 mol/g making 135.21/170.61= 0.79 moles of amphetamine in a gram of amphetamine HCl making 6.81E17 or 681,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of amphetamine in a gram of amphetamine HCl

Therefore there's almost 100 quadrillion molecules more of amphetamine per gram of amphetamine HCl than 1 gram of amphetamine sulfate.

That took longer than expected to explain. I'll answer the other question later.

Thanks. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to explain that in detail.

 

[purplehaze147]

Thanks. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to explain that in detail.

You're welcome. I like to take my knowledge of chemistry as I have a degree in organic chemistry and explain so people have a better understanding from info you can't get off of most addicts. Most people forget what a mole means after HS.

As for the dextrorotatory vs levorotatory enantiomers, levomethamphetamine is almost all peripheral. It's sold OTC I'm the US, and no one abuses it. Dextromethamphetamine is where the euphoria comes from. L-amp adds side effects. It's true that it's hard to compare potency as levoamphetamine may feel stronger physically causing much more discomfort.

Dextromethamphetamine is all you want. I think Adderall has L-amp in it because the cheaper precursor P2P makes a racemic mixture, while norpseudoephedrine makes just dextro.

 

[Mjohn120]

Literally just registered for the site to post this— please let me know where to post this if it doesn’t belong here!
So, I have a question regarding gastrointestinal upset directly following relapses. This is the second time I’ve gotten it bad, and I’ve been wondering if this is common among people who relapse after abstaining for some time. I wanted to know if me abstaining made it so that my body is no longer equipped to deal with the drug. Sort of like those very first few times that I messed around with this drug— where I would feel really sick (nauseous and/or severely bloated/cramp-y), usually the day after using. The stomach issues quickly dissipated as my body got used to the drug, and I had all but forgotten the handful of times I dealt with them. Is it possible I’m once again experiencing these, after being sober for the large majority of 8 months? Or is it just fallout from severely neglecting my body?

 

[Riverwheat]

Literally just registered for the site to post this— please let me know where to post this if it doesn’t belong here!
So, I have a question regarding gastrointestinal upset directly following relapses. This is the second time I’ve gotten it bad, and I’ve been wondering if this is common among people who relapse after abstaining for some time. I wanted to know if me abstaining made it so that my body is no longer equipped to deal with the drug. Sort of like those very first few times that I messed around with this drug— where I would feel really sick (nauseous and/or severely bloated/cramp-y), usually the day after using. The stomach issues quickly dissipated as my body got used to the drug, and I had all but forgotten the handful of times I dealt with them. Is it possible I’m once again experiencing these, after being sober for the large majority of 8 months? Or is it just fallout from severely neglecting my body?

So, I don't know what your ROA is. I personally usually smoke. Occasionally hotrail. My favorite ROA is mixing in a drink, usually morning coffee and I'm good all day, but I haven't done that in months. I am USUALLY a daily user, tho lately money has been a little tight. Anyway, so I never had the upset tummy thing until recently. Now, almost every time I smoke, I get a stomach ache of some kind. I'm not sure if it's from just use, what it's cut with, etc. But, because of other serious health issues, I monitor my blood pressure and heart rate daily. I was diagnosed with tachycardia (abnormally high resting heart rate) about 3 years ago. My heart rate is NEVER below 100 when at rest, and never below 130 when active. I had been suffering from high blood pressure as well for a good 15 years, but when I stopped smoking pot, my blood pressure mellowed out. I still have high heart rate, but blood pressure was completely normal. But looking back at my records, I found for the past year, I've been suffering from LOW distolic blood pressure (the bottom number). And in the past few months it's been extremely low, like under 50 low. Doing some research on that, I discovered that low blood pressure can cause all kinds of nasty stomach upset, just like high blood pressure does. You'd think using a stimulant as strong as meth, I wouldn't be suffering from low blood pressure as badly as I am, but there you have it. When you put a carcinogenic like meth into your system, no matter the ROA, it's bound to do some nasty things to the body. Alka seltzer works pretty good for me when I get drug induced stomach issues. Or some ginger tea. Just, when you are using, whether daily or just occasionally, you really need to do your absolute best to sleep at least every other night, and eat. Even if you aren't hungry, you need to force yourself to eat. I drink 2--2 "Premier Protein" drinks everyday along with whatever food I can force down. No one except my husband and my connect know I use. I sleep, I eat, I hold a job and am now enrolled in college. I'm what they call a "functioning addict." If you're having stomach upset, try to eat something. And please, for the love of everything that is good and holy in this world, DO NOT mix uppers and downers of ANY SORT!

 

[Mjohn120]

So, I don't know what your ROA is. I personally usually smoke. Occasionally hotrail. My favorite ROA is mixing in a drink, usually morning coffee and I'm good all day, but I haven't done that in months. I am USUALLY a daily user, tho lately money has been a little tight. Anyway, so I never had the upset tummy thing until recently. Now, almost every time I smoke, I get a stomach ache of some kind. I'm not sure if it's from just use, what it's cut with, etc. But, because of other serious health issues, I monitor my blood pressure and heart rate daily. I was diagnosed with tachycardia (abnormally high resting heart rate) about 3 years ago. My heart rate is NEVER below 100 when at rest, and never below 130 when active. I had been suffering from high blood pressure as well for a good 15 years, but when I stopped smoking pot, my blood pressure mellowed out. I still have high heart rate, but blood pressure was completely normal. But looking back at my records, I found for the past year, I've been suffering from LOW distolic blood pressure (the bottom number). And in the past few months it's been extremely low, like under 50 low. Doing some research on that, I discovered that low blood pressure can cause all kinds of nasty stomach upset, just like high blood pressure does. You'd think using a stimulant as strong as meth, I wouldn't be suffering from low blood pressure as badly as I am, but there you have it. When you put a carcinogenic like meth into your system, no matter the ROA, it's bound to do some nasty things to the body. Alka seltzer works pretty good for me when I get drug induced stomach issues. Or some ginger tea. Just, when you are using, whether daily or just occasionally, you really need to do your absolute best to sleep at least every other night, and eat. Even if you aren't hungry, you need to force yourself to eat. I drink 2--2 "Premier Protein" drinks everyday along with whatever food I can force down. No one except my husband and my connect know I use. I sleep, I eat, I hold a job and am now enrolled in college. I'm what they call a "functioning addict." If you're having stomach upset, try to eat something. And please, for the love of everything that is good and holy in this world, DO NOT mix uppers and downers of ANY SORT!

I only IV

 

[tweakerguy]

First off the simple question. The HCl salt is more potent than the sulfate salt because HCl has a smaller molar mass. If you put a gram of HCl and a gram of sulfate on a scale, the HCl will have more amphetamine molecules since there's 6.022E23 molecules in a mole. Hydrogen is ~1 atomic mass units (a single proton for the most abundant isotope) and chloride has 35.4 atomic mass units (17 protons, 18 neutrons usually) making for 36.4 g/mol. Sulfate, or has 96.1 atomic mass units and two acidic functional groups when sulfuric acid before sulfuric acid reacts and forms a sulfate anion with a base at 2:1 moles of base and sulfuric acid allowing for 2 amphetamine molecules for every 1. So amphetamine freebase is 135.21 moles of amphetamine per gram.

There's 135.21 + 35.4 = 170.4 moles of amphetamine HCl in a gram, while there's 135.21 + 84.25/2 moles = 177.34 moles of amphetamine sulfate in a gram.

93.10/135.21 then multiplied by Avagado's number makes 0.69 moles of amphetamine in a gram of amphetamine sulfate. This makes there 5.91E17 or 591,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of amphetamine per gram amphetamine hemisulfate.

135.21- 35.4 = 170.61 mol/g making 135.21/170.61= 0.79 moles of amphetamine in a gram of amphetamine HCl making 6.81E17 or 681,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of amphetamine in a gram of amphetamine HCl

Therefore there's almost 100 quadrillion molecules more of amphetamine per gram of amphetamine HCl than 1 gram of amphetamine sulfate.

That took longer than expected to explain. I'll answer the other question later.

Simple terms, it's just a lot more drug in a much smaller package

 

[Roided1]

I gave up on taking a break and all approved to be well. My ROA is snorting and slamming alternating between. 8 hours ago I began to sneeze uncontrollably, clear fluid is now flowing from my nose.Im running a low grade fever and ironically feel sluggish while on a stim. It could be exposure to constant a/c because of the intense heat where I am. Am I just coming down with the common cold or is my reintroduction to daily use of meth the determining factor in play?

 

[G_Chem]

Hey Roided,

First off welcome. From reading your post I gather it’s probably a bit of both, Meth hits hard on the immune system allowing for something to get you sick easier that it could have before.

I’d highly recommend taking a break for a week to rest and allow your body a chance to fight this thing off.

-GC

 

[Atomic_Decay]

If you slam, closely monitor your injection sites fo signs of infection. That could account for some of your symptoms.

 

[Cuntboi69]

^Please check the dates before posting in a thread, this one is more than 4 years old..

Lol you don’t like people answering when it’s been that long?

 

[G_Chem]

Lol you don’t like people answering when it’s been that long?

The longer one waits the less likely the response will mean a difference anyways. For instance the guy you quoted posted that 6yrs ago and hasn’t been on here since Feb.

-GC

 

[deficiT]

Nothing wrong with bumping a thread. Methinks @Cuntboi69 is probably projecting some bad faith. I'm gonna just merge this with the Meth megathread.

 

[Geek Riddle]

Practically nobody on the OD meth megathreads uses the like button. On the BDD meth thread though everyone's using that shit and they have half the threads. What gives?

That's how high I still am after I shot almost half a G yesterday.

 

[Atomic_Decay]

Practically nobody on the OD meth megathreads uses the like button. On the BDD meth thread though everyone's using that shit and they have half the threads. What gives?

That's how high I still am after I shot almost half a G yesterday.

Because the tweakers here are so fucking scatty we have been unable to get them to stay in the one forum and post things properly.

But that’s ok. At least there here doing something unlike the junkies who are all just lying on the floor in their bedrooms “enjoying” their nod.

 

[Geek Riddle]

I just got out of prison.
This shit is dope.

I missed about fifteen units yesterday and now I have a nasty lump in my right arm. I think I might switch to using my neck again.

 

[FallenOne86]

What’s the worst thing that could happen to your gastrointestinal if you’ve used on and off for 15 years and have always or for the most part just taken it orally? (( put it in gel caps ))

I mean I’ve coated my stomach with yogurt and drink a gallon of water but still it’s gonna do damage no matter what I just worry what my insides look like and I’m sure I’ve got ulcers. This is what scares me the most is not knowing. Am I gonna have a slow horrible death?