‘Very promising’: UK’s first full heroin-prescribing scheme extended after reductions in crime and homelessness

thegreenhand said:
they hit CD too... I’m giving you the reigns @dalpat077 😛
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thegreenhand said:
I was just kidding with ya friend, mods are taking care of it
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Ah well. You may as well delete your two posts above and then I'll delete this one.

The problem was sorted soon enough it would seem.

Fuck. It was doing my head in. I touch type (proper) at a mean speed on a keyboard. But not so an iPad. Nearly got the fuck out of bed to get to my notebook to see just how far I could take it!

Oh well. This a bit like the morning after the night before back in the day i.e. cleanup operation and damage control! 🤣 The good old days (reading shit on social media that you don't remember posting the night before type of thing i.e. "Fuck. Was that me?" or "Fuck. What a night!" 🤣 ).
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
The problem with these schemes are that they are only offered to the most difficult, treatment resistant, thieving, lieing junkies. So the moral of the story is: "To get what you want, just be a cunt".

Ain't that just true of life in general..?

The worst offenders are selected purely to benefit society, rather than to help the individual.
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So true. Those of us who live our lives as best we can & don’t make our issues someone else’s problem don’t get any help
 
AlphaMethylPhenyl said:
Stimulants function pretty differently than opioids. Replacement therapy is rarely viable due to the fiendish nature of the habit. Meth might as well be illegal in the USA. Not only is it selected for very treatment-resistant people, but insurance is unlikely to cover it, and because of the low amount produced (partly), it's very expensive. That's all good and well, because it's much harder on the brain than amphetamine otherwise.

I think though that the USA is leading global drug reform through individual states passing more progressive laws. It's sort of snowballing (no pun). It started with legal medical cannabis, and finally has cracked personal amounts of substances as decriminalized. Next 10-20 years and most states will follow, assuming that the feds don't get to it earlier, in which case the opioid epidemic would have to likely grow and mutate and become worse and worse.
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Yes! In Oregon I couldn't believe it just this year they decriminalized all drugs but only User amounts! So I can get caught w/ a needle full of H and a bunch of dirty 30s/fake pressed oxys w/fentanyl and not even get a ticket! My late bf who passed recently, was charged with selling H bc they found 15g in our house but they dumped all the other charges bc the meth, dirty 30s/Blues and individually wrapped bags of H fell under the decriminalization law. Unfortunately he passed away 3 weeks ago and he died having a warrant even though I called his attorney and told him he's been life flighted to the city and has been sedated living off a ventilator for a month now, The attorney told the judge nothing I told him and they issued a warrant when he missed his 2nd court appearance. I hate the USA justice system & public defenders are fucking useless POS.
 
Gormur said:
I wonder why they couldn't start with morphine, see how that works then if it does move up to heroin maintenance
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I'm really late to this, I know, but I want to comment. I've said the same goddamnn thing from the start of all of these new short-acting therapies. I consider myself a connoiseur of this type of shit. I used Heroin for years in the states and used it in the middle east and southeast asia. In the middle east, in Kurdistan it was almost always Morphine Base. I'd be lying if I said I could tell the difference in a way that truly effected things, you know? Was the rush 20% less sweet and seductive compared to Heroin, maybe, but both got me where I needed to be.

Then I started experiencing Fentanyl and Co. I just remember getting dope in New England that gave me blurry vision and weird neurological shit but also got me extremely sedated, yet also, was noticeably less euphoric than Morphine/Heroin. The Fentanyl derivatives I could undoubtedly discern from the naturally-derived Opiates. It was just inferior in every way.

I don't mean to ramble, but my point is, I truly believe Morphine could have at least been made a solid foundation on which to stand while we wait for the more controversial Heroin therapy to become accepted.
 
yubacity said:
Been saying for years heroin should be available on prescription. It lets the user stabilize their life plus have access to treatment if wanted and become part of society again get a job start building their life. For the wider community, it lowers crime ends up cost less taxpayer money than keeping it illegal.But we all know the conservatives even if the facts where all there they will ignore them and say it not moral to give drugs to addicts
Heroin is a name for correct, me if I'm wrong Diacetyl-Morphine meaning Heroin is literally simply morphine that penetrates the blood-brain barrier causing a quicker and stronger effect especially when it comes to the I.V. rush for Heroin compared to Morphine otherwise they r basically the same drug nearly at least with some subtle differences
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Government is around to protect the interests of the elite not to make it easy for ya
 
I fully believe that if all drugs were freely available to all people, that society would actually change very little in how it functions or appears. It's all a big illusion, that doctors are efficient gatekeepers of poisons, that drugs devastate all they touch. In the end, most people will choose to live a normal life as opposed to pursuing drugs as their primary reason for being. I think that a lot of the trials with Heroin/Morphine prescribing have demonstrated the fact that drugs are a vice just like any other i.e. sex, gambling etc.

A lof of these folks, myself included for a time, were existing in a fantasy that a world with unlimited dope was not possible/not propable/could never truly be. Heroin-prescribed patients seem to become more curious about other potential facets of life like work, family etc. after discovering the logical end of Heroin dependency. Once I moved to an environment in which Heroin/Morphine was significantly more affordable, my entire idea about Opioid dependence changed permanently.

It's definitely possible to use drugs so much that they feel they no longer affect you and Opioids are no different. I've used 5 grams of Heroin per day at times, basically when Opiates became much more available to me. I eventually found that by using more and more, I was experiencing less and less of the effects desired and increasing dependence.
 
Keif' Richards said:
A lof of these folks, myself included for a time, were existing in a fantasy that a world with unlimited dope was not possible/not propable/could never truly be. Heroin-prescribed patients seem to become more curious about other potential facets of life like work, family etc. after discovering the logical end of Heroin dependency.
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That’s a great point and so true imo
 
thegreenhand said:
that's why these prograsm only work imo if the pharma heroin/meth/cocaine is available to all. legal supply needs to put black market supply out of business. but that won't happen when most people can't access the pharma drugs as @F.U.B.A.R. has noted
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Absolutely. Preach that constantly but it's so hard to get anyone to it seems even entertain the idea for more than millisecond...I hate it! This is serious life and death crazy shit here. Our own drug policies are literally creating meaningless suffering en masse...not only meaningless but also absolutely UNNECESSARY suffering...on top of all of it, this has been and still is happening in front of the US and world's eyes, but billions of people I suppose are just fine and dandy to leave such junkie issues in their self made mental & emotional blind spot 🥺😞😡🤬🤢🤮😡😱😰😨😳😖😫😵
 
Ive never understood why they dont just sell amd let people get what they want and make the money instead of puttimg that massive black market cash cow in the hands of transnational criminals. The reasons for many of the problems that people blame on the drugs would....alot if times ...be eliminated or drastically reduced if they gave out or sold the chemicals people are addicred to themselves. And then they would kmow exactly where to target for treatment. Fruatrating to me.
 
Wow. I can't imagine how handing out free pills could help lol. Hey can I have a bottle of oxy from Walgreens as my own Dr? I'm just saying I think it eliminates violence and disease.
 
Jeanpauldash said:
Wow. I can't imagine how handing out free pills could help lol. Hey can I have a bottle of oxy from Walgreens as my own Dr? I'm just saying I think it eliminates violence and disease.
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That would be preferable to people usomg the alternatives. Everytime they crackdown on things to make it more restricted the problem just pops up in some other crazy way. They cracked down on doctors overprescribing ( they should have left this alone and done a media campaign to educate people on the dangera ).... and so heroin bwcame waaaay worse. When fentanyl came along everthing flipped to that for economic reasons. Had we left those pills alone.... the death rate per year would atill be hovwring around 10-20,000 a year instead of 100,000.

Maybe we shouldnt be able to walk om and get it ouraelves on a whim... but whats to stop sympathetic doctors from prescribing whatever easily. It would pacify the addicts.... undercut the cartels income stream.... and you would have a record of whrre to put the treatment money bwcause you would know who was addicted based om the prescriptions. And if you can easily fet them.... even diverted pills woild be cheap. I dunno. Just my 2c. I think there is a bettwr way we could be doing this. A better way that will take another 50 years to see. ;-)
 
mokele said:
Absolutely correct! Picadilly Circus was the main pharmacy then i think, but i was still shitting my diapers back then. I remember when they opened the first one in Frankfurt and expected to be flooded, then flabbergasted why noone came. So they went on the scene and asked....its even on YT, worth watching. The system has flaws.No takehomes, go there twice a Day (!!!),no side addictions like benzos ( nowadays???) and of course no vacation. Now as a Freelancer you got that money/ supply problem ( unless your born filthy rich or a functioning addict in well paid job) but most manage that. And when down with flu or just plain ugly, cold n dark outside, get yourself a few grams, couple pills n stay in cozy warm bed. Not drag yourself up, sludge through heaps of snow and then stay there cuz going home and coming back makes no sense. If you live around the corner, fine. But not all do. Plus the place tends to be in some industrial area cuz like stated the brickheads dont want that in their neighbourhoods. " the children, the children...."! Fuggit, " the children " wont turn into Junkies just cuz you got a clinic near you. Rather more likely not! That system needs a good once over, that Way now will never make more than a dent. Sorry for the rant


Correct Gormur!!! Here you can get into Morphine extended release pills, first 1 week for everyone ( started round 1998 ),then of course too many were caught going into treatment unaddicted or claiming higher dosed than were and making a quick buck.
Now its a week if you work, everyday pickup in pharmacy if you dont. Thanks to Covid its a week for all now and be caught dealing twice your out, which is fair cuz esp the gypsies and other immigrants ( i am left wing!) abused that lenient Way it was first and screwed it for all. But i got distracted, sorry! Many think its MORPHIN NOT DIAMORPHIN cuz M.is just more acceptable for the health system. Heavens forbid we actually give them HEROIN, its just what these daft creatures WANT! So No, morphin it is. Still better than only methadone, levomethadone or buprenorphin. Still a long Way to go...
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It was thought that everyone would get hooked on methadone when MMT started on the UK. I used to get my scripts filled xomegkmes down the "dolly" from the late 60s early 70s. You know if the government on the UK could just completely legalise all drugs it would be amazing. The stuff would be pure, not cut to fuck with sit. They could tax, like they do booze, and they could educate the public to realise that the crap they've been fed for so long just isn't true.

Nowadays with drugs being so more easily available surely more people should have just started using, just like everyone was told they would. But no it's still the vulnerable and traumatised person that ends up using. Once they make it safer, having realised that drugs are not the evil they once believed, maybe society could then look less scathingly at anyone using drugs. Be a little more open to helping people than stigmatising them.

It's bad enough having addiction issues without others making you feel worse about yourself simply due to their lack of understanding?

Babygirl. X
 
I've noted that until a few years ago, the only UK company that produced medical diamorphine was MacFarlan Smith (and trust me - the lab where it's produced is more secure than a prison) so they had a monopoly. They were able to charge frankly ridiculous prices. Now I note there are three suppliers (MacFarlan Smith evidently deciding not to compete) so the price has dropped hugely. Still costly but 5 x 100mg dry-amps costs £42.39 plus whatever the pharmacist charges.

As someone mentioned, it appears one major demographic is 'problem users' but I would like to suggest that there is in fact an even larger demographic - the wealthy.

HAT has quietly been available at some costly private 'addiction treatment facilities' all along. But the wealthy are unsurprisingly remiss when mentioning exactly how they were able to obtain boxes of 100mg dry-amps of diamorphine to take home.

Why 5 when 3 or possibly 6 would seem more obvious? My theory is to ensure waste. The safe custody laws might mean a private patient prescribed 100mg diamorphine [TID] leaves to amps and I contend that few pharmacies have the appropriate storage and even holding diamorphine could be costly to insure. So a pharmacist and a PCA can destroy the unused amps, both sign on the dotted line to show two people confirmed the destruction and next day the patient again gets a box with two of the five amps removed.

BTW I've only come across dry amps a few times but the strange thing (to me) is that their street value is lower than a bag containing about the same amount of active. I mean 30mg amps changed hands for £6. In a way I suppose that high price means nobody could pay to get diamorphine through a private doctor and to then sell it on for a profit. Now that must be 20 odd years ago and the H in the UK has (on average) got substantially more pure so I would guess that street value would drop.

Odd thing, all of the people selling amps did so in order to buy street H. I did enquire and in every case they cited that pure diamorphine was 'too subtle' and 'too cold' which they put down to the fact that street H contains heroin, 3-monoacetyl morphine, 6-monoacetyl morphine, morphine and possibly trace amounts of codeine, thebaine and papaverine.

My friend who had a good job, their own home (paid for) and a supportive family was able to access HAT and mentioned that yes, they were so glad to recieve HAT, they somehow lost structure in their life. Suddenly all they had to do was to ask their mum to pick up the amps at the pharmacy for them each day. They had been living to use and suddenly that had gone. They were provided with caffeine powder as to vape diamorphine hydrochloride one must add about 10% by weigh of caffeine to lower the boiling point and they smoked their H.

I REALLY hope it works but I'm glad we essentially do not use hydromorphone (Dilaudid) as many people remark that it's 'all rush'. (pure) H seems to provide a longer euphoria. It's also madness to prescribe pills to people who will cook and shoot said pills. In forms designed for injection, I couldn't comment.

The Dutch used to use oral Palfium (dextromoramide) which apparently produces an IV H-like rush when simply swallowed whole. But that absolutely requires supervised consumption.
 
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