Lsd and breastfeeding

[naginnudej]

Drugs don't cause mental disorders, though they can certainly trigger pre-existing conditions.

The only "for sure" safe thing would be to wait until you're done breastfeeding of course.

In a fetus that doesn't even have a fully developed brain? I'm not sure about that...

 

[queenscarlet88]

Drugs don't cause mental disorders, though they can certainly trigger pre-existing conditions.

I have a major problem with this pat justification which Bluelighters employ so frequently.

a) Most of the time, a person doesn't KNOW he has a "pre-existing condition" until after it's already been "triggered." Case in point. Whether it was "there all along" or not, I had NO IDEA that I possessed the capacity to have panic attacks and be chronically anxious until it started happening. Coincidence-of-coincidences, I had my first panic attack the night I mixed acid and weed. They kept on coming after that. I don't have panic attacks any more, eight months later, but I do have very physical, powerful anxiety most days. It sucks. And it wouldn't have happened if not for the drugs.

b) You have no evidence to back up this statement. It's just an assumption, which you believe because it suits your broader worldview that drugs will never harm /you/, they only harm other people because something is wrong with those /other/ people whereas nothing is wrong with /you/. Or at least that's the impression I get from people who use this justification. If I'm assuming too much please tell me.

I hope I don't come across as too snarky or bitchy, the "drugs exacerbate but never cause" argument just pisses me off because of its implied cavalier attitude toward the lasting negative mental side effects of drugs

 

[slimvictor]

...And it wouldn't have happened if not for the drugs.

You can't possibly know that you wouldn't have had any problems without drugs.
I don't mean to be offensive or insulting, but it is simply not possible to definitively say that "drugs caused this, and I never would have experienced it without drugs, though the potential was there inside me all along". It sounds very fishy to me.
In fact, I would cite your post here, or at least a quote which sounds like it applies to your argument as well:

You have no evidence to back up this statement. It's just an assumption, which you believe because it suits your broader worldview ...

 

[pucko]

haven't read the replys, so forgive me if someone's already said it but the LSD won't get into the milk...at least in my understanding of how LSD travels through the body it won't.

i could be wrong, but i'd lay a large bet on what i believe as being correct being correct.

 

[Immunity]

I understand the study's recommendation not to breastfeed for such a long period after use of LSD, but it seems to be fairly well established that LSD is metabolized quickly and thoroughly. I personally feel the risk of exposing your baby to trace amounts of LSD would be mostly gone by, say, 6-8 hours after ingestion.(Notice I say "risk of exposing your baby to," versus "risk of damaging your baby with." Really, we don't know the effects of LSD on an infant's development, so let's not make assumptions.) After that period, I feel that the amount of LSD in your body would be so minimal, that fearing the risk of LSD exposure would be akin to fearing the risks of taking your baby outside. That is to say, trivial.

I personally feel the study itself is dubious, listing hallucinations under adverse effects on the baby, as if we can tell if an infant is hallucinating or not, or if there are any real adverse effects on the baby at all. I'm not saying we should give LSD to infants and not worry about adverse effects, but I do believe that assuming the effects are "adverse" is a silly thing to do.

In the interest of harm reduction, erring on the side of caution seems perfectly valid to me. However, from a scientific standpoint, I dislike the assumptions made by that study.

And for my part, I too believe that we have no place telling someone not to use LSD based on our own moral convictions.

 

[moth.]

i would probably use formula for a couple days to a week after. but its no different than hiring a baby sitter and drinking martinis all night, imo. babysitting for cocktail party moms in westchester was how i paid for all my pot in high school.

 

[Teetowl]

I would say as long as you don't breast feed for a couple of days it would probably be alright....

LSD is out of your system pretty quickly.... i doubt psychedelic milk would just sort of chill there for very long....

Psychedelic Milk!
Now I want some of that in my tea!

 

[naginnudej]

i would probably use formula for a couple days to a week after. but its no different than hiring a baby sitter and drinking martinis all night, imo. babysitting for cocktail party moms in westchester was how i paid for all my pot in high school.

Amazing...I did the same way back. The chester' is a funny, funny place.

 

[permastoned]

b) You have no evidence to back up this statement. It's just an assumption, which you believe because it suits your broader worldview that drugs will never harm /you/, they only harm other people because something is wrong with those /other/ people whereas nothing is wrong with /you/. Or at least that's the impression I get from people who use this justification. If I'm assuming too much please tell me.

Incidence of mental illness such as schizophrenia did NOT increase during the 70s. Seems pretty conclusive to me. That said, 2 months ago I had a bad trip that I still have residual anxiety from, I still feel only half as good as I did before the trip. But it is slowly getting better.

 

[any major dude]

I have a major problem with this pat justification which Bluelighters employ so frequently.

a) Most of the time, a person doesn't KNOW he has a "pre-existing condition" until after it's already been "triggered." Case in point. Whether it was "there all along" or not, I had NO IDEA that I possessed the capacity to have panic attacks and be chronically anxious until it started happening. Coincidence-of-coincidences, I had my first panic attack the night I mixed acid and weed. They kept on coming after that. I don't have panic attacks any more, eight months later, but I do have very physical, powerful anxiety most days. It sucks. And it wouldn't have happened if not for the drugs.

b) You have no evidence to back up this statement. It's just an assumption, which you believe because it suits your broader worldview that drugs will never harm /you/, they only harm other people because something is wrong with those /other/ people whereas nothing is wrong with /you/. Or at least that's the impression I get from people who use this justification. If I'm assuming too much please tell me.

I hope I don't come across as too snarky or bitchy, the "drugs exacerbate but never cause" argument just pisses me off because of its implied cavalier attitude toward the lasting negative mental side effects of drugs

I think pre-existing condition is a bit of a misnomer. Most if not all mental illnesses have a biological component, and this is almost always genetic in origin. Drugs cannot affect your genetics. It can be difficult to know if you have a genetic pre-disposition to mental illness if there isn't a documented history of mental illness in your family. The combination of drugs and a genetic pre-disposition can cause mental illness, but so can an infinite number of other things

 

[NW-baltiland]

I was not trying to flame anyone. The woman should be thinking about her newborn child instead of the last time she got high and her want to go out and party. If I had a child, there would be no drug use at all. I would be home holding my baby and reading.

You're not being fair. Shouldn't mom be able to have some kind of fun after cultivating that child for 9 months and then deciding to take care of that child for the rest of there life? The answer is an obvious, yes. She should pump some extra milk in the days before, enough to have for maybe 36 hours after the trip, and go out with friends and either hire a babysitter or let the father stay home. I see nothing wrong with this and in fact I see it helping the relationship between mother and child.

edit- If some of you people would see the moms I see at my methadone clinic, moms who were shooting dope and coke during the whole pregnancy, children who came out shaking and vomiting from being dope sick. Seriously, get your fuckin' priorities str8, this mom stayed clean for 9+ months, I would say "great fuckin' job" if I saw her, and I would also say, "go have a good time tonight, your baby will be hear when you get home". She deserves a little break and to be able to integrate this amazing experience that she just had. Tripping once a year is hardly the worst thing a mother could do, shit if my mom would have just gone out and tripped once a year instead of going out and getting drunk every day and night I might have gotten to actually know her and she might be here with me now. Stop the hating, and to the OP, tell your friend to go out and have a good time", you should be a good friend and babysit for free so she doesn't have to lay out more dough. Take care.

 

[moth.]

Amazing...I did the same way back. The chester' is a funny, funny place.

freshchester is the best chester. what town did you live in? i grew up in pelham.

 

[jessamy]

I was not trying to flame anyone. The woman should be thinking about her newborn child instead of the last time she got high and her want to go out and party. If I had a child, there would be no drug use at all. I would be home holding my baby and reading.

I LAUGHED OUT LOUD when i read this jackie jones! no one can be super mum, you cant just sit there, hold your baby and read!! What do you think a baby does? they require a lot of attention and you care for there every whim! if they want you to talk to them u have to sit there n talk to them if they are hungry u have to feed them, then burp them, then change their nappy (among other things) and this is a vicious cycle!
Atleast she is concerned about the acid going through to her baby, thats got to count for something.

 

[Cohesion]

xxx

 

[Cohesion]

Though the amount of drug may be "negligible", it's all about the vibes, baby.

And I don't mean that in a positive way when it concerns the little ones.

I smoked tiny amounts of weed throughout pregnancy and felt guilty as guilty could be. I was regularly concerned about where it came from-- "I bet some idiot put Miracle-gro on here...". I continued smoking weed until we weaned at 18 months. Because I started Adderall, and Klonopin the month before.

Throughout breastfeeding, I did quite a number of pharms. It's fucking unacceptable!! Because I so flagrantly spit on my own morals, I was cognitively shoveling the blame on to the one who placed the substances in my sweaty, selfish palm (Enter baby daddy, stage left).

I took plenty of OC for about a week/month for about 5 months. Definitely other random opiates, mostly hydrocodone based. I watched her closely and she did not sleep extra or any side effects. EXCEPT. Hydrocodone would make her break out in a rash all over her little body for a few days. That was soo trashy to keep taking it. I tried to distract her with food, snacks, milk (not mommy milk), and so on- I NEVER denied her the breast, and she refused a bottle until sippy cup at 10/11 months. My pawing, suckling little bundle of warmth and sugar wanted my milk and after stressful attempts to not do it (the adult KNEW what was in the non-assuming milk), usually I surrendered to giving her a little bit, though I know she was getting a LOT.

Right after her birth (3 weeks old) I met a friend at a restaurant and REALLY. ENJOYED. some Long Island Iced Tea (I rarely drink, but being forbidden during pregnancy made it so tantalizing). How.Ever. Parent fail. I had mistakenly assumed that [a variety of cheap] hard liquor was o.k. while nursing. After all- the internet approved wine and beer. Yeah I was drunk like a real mom-of-the-year-- then I nursed her-- Hello projectile vomiting

While I can sit here today and chronicle my parenting-wins, I'm grateful for a space where we can share these dark things *anonymously*. It's so key. 2 years ago I'd have been eating this up. So, hopefully someone out there gets something positive out of my experience.

I will say- not with pride- I did have to extend some self-control; I was NOT an avid user by any means. Cigarettes were mostly not being used, and I made an effort to avoid pharms unless they were in a low risk category for nursing kids. And I'd take the proper dose as MUCH as "possible".

Hell yeah I've been flamed in a mothering forum for this! Are you kidding. I thrive on the real talk no matter what's going on. If I don't lay "it" out there, I'm gonna isolate until secrets and shame consume.. nah... I'd rather spread it around and let others lay it on me... so I don't have to do the guilt thing to myself by myself.

Peace folks.
Don't breastfeed and intoxicate. Kthx. It's all about the vibes.

 

[Cohesion]

Wholly OT but I have to brag:

Breastfeeding is THE way to go; I'm throwing my .02 into this post because as a culture we don't talk about breastfeeding enough; the calamity known as FORMULA still hasn't been "busted" by mainstream culture.

Stepping onto my soap box now:
New moms *IME* are mysteriously & extraordinarily keen to the social atmosphere in which she and the baby are immersed. I became mysteriously accepting of circumstances around me that I couldn't change (specifically- the culture, customs --even ugly language and the destructive habits enacted in my home). In sum- IME, the "idealistic" thinking of pregnancy, was starkly shown up by the undeniable, raw, sadly abhorrent, said-and-done elements ; hypervigilance makes room for unhindered, pure baby experience. Point is, IME of course, new moms conform & accept the reality of it all- financial abyss, partner bickering, cravings for drugs, ad nauseum...

All I'm saying is that as a new mom I found myself to be indescribably sensitive to the vibes of my family and culture. Thus there is something (albeit elusive) significant when blessed with the presence of a new mom. My points of view have a chance of being skewed and contrived due to the passage of time. But as I can recall, new (parents?) draw strength from and absorb the vibes of the environment like nothing else, to date...

As an addict, you understand when I say that- Historically, my pain is more or less subdued in no time. If something proves to be very difficult, stressful, and/or challenging -- sadly- same thing- habitual quitting is a go-to response... as an addict. Feeling "good" inside my head becomes so simple to induce (as pacifying drugs happen to be so readily available); a great big, however lukewarm 'Thanks' to the Rsis for ensuring the existence of these substances for my confused mental aerobics in search of the peace..

Waka waka, I had a main point, not remembering it at this second. GTG. I'm truly sorry if I wasted your time by being nothing BUT off-topic.

 

[areyoukiddingme]

I am a mom and have tried most things at least once. I can honestly tell you that if you're a mom and you're doing drugs (besides the occasional drink) then you are the most selfish person you could be. Nobody thinks about the future of their child just what they want at that moment. It's especially selfish when there are women out there who can't conceive and wish they could or have miscarriages. I almost had a miscarriage. I had a hemmorage that was the size of my daughter. She really is a miracle. She made it to exactly 40 weeks with me being on best rest and light duty trying not to have her early. I almost went into labor at 26 weeks. She is my world and if you rather do drugs than enjoy a fresh start with your amazing child then you deserve to get caught for one and two grow up and start acting like an adult. Your child depends on you and looks up to you and will copy everything you do. That's all they know. The life you show them is the one they'll stick to. I could see if you were wanting to know in case you get drugged while out having a drink with some friends or something like that for future reference, as I was wondering, but to want to know for your own benefit is rediculous. LSD stays in your spine forever and you lose a small amount of spinal fluid. That is important for proper brain development and what you don't suppliment for your child will just be taken from you when you breastfeed meaning that minerals in your teeth and bones and other random parts of your body will automatically fortify your breastmilk. In other words, even if you are still going to do drugs can't you wait until you are not breastfeeding anymore? What are you 10? ...Selfish!

 

[areyoukiddingme]

Oh by the way, you can hold your baby and sit and read, watch tv, play on your phone, make dinner, check your mail, load and unload the dishwasher,... etc. I know because I've done it. I'm breastfeeding. I have had a glass of wine every now and then because it's allowed. Ya'll need to grow up. You all sound like my ex-boyfriend who by the way is still a loser. I stay home with my daughter and my husband works and I haven't once thought about getting high or getting shit faced because when you look your child in the eye and think, "hey baby, mommy is going to go get fucked up." It sounds fucked up and is wrong. Mother of the year! Go mom. "Mommy I love you when you're doing acid and other drugs." Don't you feel any remorse or guilt? Rediculous.

 

[Kbonzai]

I am a mom and have tried most things at least once. I can honestly tell you that if you're a mom and you're doing drugs (besides the occasional drink) then you are the most selfish person you could be. Nobody thinks about the future of their child just what they want at that moment. It's especially selfish when there are women out there who can't conceive and wish they could or have miscarriages. I almost had a miscarriage. I had a hemmorage that was the size of my daughter. She really is a miracle. She made it to exactly 40 weeks with me being on best rest and light duty trying not to have her early. I almost went into labor at 26 weeks. She is my world and if you rather do drugs than enjoy a fresh start with your amazing child then you deserve to get caught for one and two grow up and start acting like an adult. Your child depends on you and looks up to you and will copy everything you do. That's all they know. The life you show them is the one they'll stick to. I could see if you were wanting to know in case you get drugged while out having a drink with some friends or something like that for future reference, as I was wondering, but to want to know for your own benefit is rediculous. LSD stays in your spine forever and you lose a small amount of spinal fluid. That is important for proper brain development and what you don't suppliment for your child will just be taken from you when you breastfeed meaning that minerals in your teeth and bones and other random parts of your body will automatically fortify your breastmilk. In other words, even if you are still going to do drugs can't you wait until you are not breastfeeding anymore? What are you 10? ...Selfish!

The above statement was so wrong it literally drove me to make an account just so I could dispel all the fallacies that are present in it.

So one, I don't see why a responsible mother can't do drugs while simultaneously raising a child. If the mother is a caring and respectful mother, drug use should not determine whether she is irresponsible or not. You back up this point by saying a child will copy the actions that their mother does, but the poster asked whether it would be safe to drop LSD while most likely not around her child. It is not like the poster was asking if it was ok to chronically smoke meth around her child, no she asked if it would be alright for the child's health to drop LSD. Note how I said "child's" health, she is wondering about the child which in my opinion is being extremely responsible. Also for a drug like LSD which is expelled from the body extremely fast I don't see why this would be a problem if the mother already had a supply of breast milk for the child. Not like you would know this though because it seems you have done little to no research on the subject of LSD-25 and it's interactions with the human body for that matter.

This brings me to my second point, no LSD does not stay in your spine forever, this is complete and utter bullshit. These studies have been proven to be complete bullshit and really if you poked around on the internet for say, five minutes you would have found this out with sounding like a belligerent fool. I mean your last sentence doesn't even make sense, I mean did you just make that science up on the spot? Can I maybe have some sources to back up your more than ridiculous claims?

Oh and lastly, it's ridiculous not rediculous, god that really annoyed me.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

i haven't studied the topic, but i can see how minerals can be taken from bones and teeth to enhance breast milk...that's what happens when you eat mineral-depleted foods outside of breast feeding, in the citric acid cycle, your body will pull minerals from your bones to fill in the food that it's processing if the food is depleted. whereas with raw, living food the citric acid cycle will simply process it through, and your body will absorb its goodness.

that being said, i completely disagree with the holier-than-thou attitude as well as the knowledge-lacking claims that this poster is suggesting. the main point i'll address is that you say you have an occasional drink, because it's 'allowed'. who the fuck allows such, the FDA, your doctor..?? aren't you the one who should 'allow' or 'not allow' things to enter you body...? you make it seem like some kind of written-in-stone fact, that it's okay to indulge in alcohol from time to time while breast feeding.

now, i'm not going to speak of what is or isn't right on an ethical level, because i am as fallible as the next, and i embrace my subjectivity.

but i will say, that alcohol is a FUCKING NEUROTOXIN, that much is a fact. and the effects of it are cumulative (antioxidants will work against the toxicity, but not completely combat the damage from what i understand) Meaning, that every time you 'ALLOW' yourself to have a drink, you are 'ALLOWING' a small amount of physical damage to your child. i rarely get heated, but this culture's overlooking of alcohol's toxic properties is one of the few topics that'll get me red.

again, i'm not judging anyone, even those drinking while breast feeding. But for you to get on here and look down on someone seeking knowledge of what is best for their child (ie harm reduction, as in the fucking point of this message board) by asking a question is arrogant, naive, and inconsiderate of you.

next time you're looking your child in the eyes and coming clean with them (as you mention in a negative context), make sure you mention to them (with your psychic mind waves) that you indulge in something which is purely an intoxicant, which is physically damaging to you as well as them, and you do so to enjoy yourself in a state of stupor.

LSD however, is not neurotoxic, and is not corrosive to the body...should someone take it while pregnant...i would say fuck no. should they take it while breast feeding? who am i to say. it's a good question, that is, whether or not the chemical's half life and metabolic pathways would allow it to make it to the mammary glands. alcohol does do these things though, so if you're going to talk shit, at least play your hand of cards to a T and pass on the poisonous beverages.