Questions About DMT

[Survived Abortion]

OP, I've experienced ego-shattering twice, and I'm sure many people here have had it more times than that. Let me say that until you've experienced it, you don't know what you have to be afraid of. Not an experience I would actively seek out. If it happens to you, it's likely to be one of the worst things you'll ever go through.

Actually, an ego-dissolution (or as some would call it "ego death") should be a perfectly beautiful and blissful experience. If you are experiencing a horrendous nightmare, it is because you are fighting it, and this can actually prevent a full dissolution taking place, and hence you don't get the re-birth feeling of bliss that you would normally feel on the comedown.

I have experienced this type of trainwreck twice - once almost a decade ago on mushrooms, and last year on 50mg 2C-T-2 during benzo cold-turkey. The latter was a million times worse than the former. On the mushroom trip I finally managed to let go, and so ended up with a beautiful resolution. However, with the 2C-T-2/benzo withdrawal trip, I fought it and I came out the loser.

On the other hand, I have experienced proper ego-dissolution many other times and it has been pure existential bliss. Ego-dissolving should not be a hellish experience as it is. Surrendering to it is the whole point.

 

[Ismene]

I'd say there is very little that can prepare you well for 5-MeO-DMT, the same goes for N,N-DMT.

I dunno Solipsis, I've always found DMT very friendly. I usually take it orally rather than smoking tho.

Actually, an ego-dissolution (or as some would call it "ego death") should be a perfectly beautiful and blissful experience

He probably won't experience ego-death tho unless he's been reading a lot about it and the placebo takes over. What he'll experience if he takes DMT orally is an initial period of nausea, then a gorgeous body-high and beautiful, translucent open eye visuals for around 45-60 minutes.

 

[Mac98]

Actually, an ego-dissolution (or as some would call it "ego death") should be a perfectly beautiful and blissful experience. If you are experiencing a horrendous nightmare, it is because you are fighting it, and this can actually prevent a full dissolution taking place, and hence you don't get the re-birth feeling of bliss that you would normally feel on the comedown.

^^ This! I'm PRETTY sure ego-death is supposed to be a wonderous, glorious thing. I've heard of DMT bad trips but I'm willing to take the risk. I respect DMT very much and do NOT take it lightly at all. I'm well aware of what it can do. But I do feel that ego-death or hyperspace is supposed to be very welcoming and enjoyable experience (and that's putting it lightly).

He probably won't experience ego-death tho unless he's been reading a lot about it and the placebo takes over. What he'll experience if he takes DMT orally is an initial period of nausea, then a gorgeous body-high and beautiful, translucent open eye visuals for around 45-60 minutes.

I've been researching DMT pretty extensively for about 2 years. Listening to Terence McKenna, Graham Hancock, Joe Rogan, looking it up online, watching documentaries about it, talking to people who've tried it first hand...

I know what DMT is. I just don't know what it is... if you know what I mean.

 

[Ismene]

I just meant there's no such thing as ego-death Mac, it's a concept Freud dreamed up 100 years ago that has been discredited for decades. The only place it seems to linger on is in psychedelics because Leary raised the concept in the 60's when he was trying to make psychedelics "respectable" to the establishment. He linked psychedelics to "ego" and eastern religions when they have absolutely nothing to do with either.

Rather than "ego-death" I just call it "being under the influence of psychedelic drugs".

What you'll experience on oral DMT is psychedelic effects - beautiful bodyhigh after the initial vomiting, open eye visuals and euphoria. And a great enhancement of music. That's taking it orally, I'm not that experienced with smoking, not really interested in so short a trip.

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ Oh wow. You need to try smoking it. =) You can get incredibly high that way. Without an MAOI it literally lasts for about 5 minutes before it starts to rapidly taper down. You can do things to your mind that you'd never be able to withstand for the length of an oral trip.

 

[Ismene]

Tried smoking it but I can't get into something that lasts a minute or two - just does nothing for me. It's like whippets.

I have tried it anally which blasted me into the most intense DMT trip I've ever had but that wasn't particularly enjoyable. I think oral gives you time to digest the experience and give you the bodyhigh.

I've been researching DMT pretty extensively for about 2 years. Listening to Terence McKenna, Graham Hancock, Joe Rogan, looking it up online, watching documentaries about it, talking to people who've tried it first hand...

I think Rogan just repeats that shit that he read in "DMT: The spirit molecule" only he doesn't understand it was all made-up theories with piss-all supporting evidence. So he says "DMT is released at death" as tho it's fact - it isn't. There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever it's released at death. When you read near-death experiences they sound nothing like DMT trips.

Mckenna goes on about the aliens - it's interesting to read about but I've never met any aliens on DMT. I'm not saying it's impossible - if you're a suggestible kind of person and read a lot about seeing aliens on DMT then you probably will.

 

[Solipsis]

I never said it was unfriendly by the way, I was talking about being able to prepare yourself for the intensity - and I stick with that. Because I cannot really imagine anything being more intense than a 5-MeO-DMT flash, relatively closely followed by N,N-DMT. Although in some way this is a peculiar thing to say because 5-MeO-DMT usually does not traumatize, and you would expect something extremely intense to do that. I have read about it being able to traumatize though, by the way. People too afraid to go to sleep, for more than a year. Rare though, fortunately.

I am not trying to make the point that the experience would not be tolerable, that you could not process or integrate it. I do have a hard time making something from it, to adequately explain it since that forces you to go into deeply metaphysical nirvana talk. But I do get over it so to speak.

Friendly or not friendly is not really the point, that implies positive or negative. The DMT's can be either one of those or neutral, but whatever it is - it is intensely that. For 5-MeO-DMT that does mean heaven or hell, so it can be extremely friendly or extremely unfriendly. N,N-DMT can be feeling like intensity or at least deeply confusing but that seems to come from not having the experience correctly. Because every time I had it correctly, which was in some way or another up to me to control with set & setting, it was indeed inherently friendly. Seemed to reflect an inherent positiveness coming eventually from deep within me, I guess if I were chronically strongly depressed it is possible the elves I had met had mostly been evil to me since I myself believe that they arise from yourself and not anything external.

It would be a remarkable thing to read about depressed people meeting only nice and comforting entities but I would still have a skeptical thought about that involving the mimicking of serotonin as a (potential) chemical happiness transducer.

 

[Ismene]

Yeah solipsis I get what you're saying - taking it in a way that instantly rockets you to the peak isn't something you can prepare for and can be unpleasant. I found that anal DMT trip about as much fun as being in a car crash. But I think that's partly down to the method of ingesting it - when you take it orally you have chance to aclimatise and get used to what's happening, the intensity gradually builds bit by bit.

 

[Survived Abortion]

I've been researching DMT pretty extensively for about 2 years. Listening to Terence McKenna, Graham Hancock, Joe Rogan, looking it up online, watching documentaries about it, talking to people who've tried it first hand...

Graham Hancock is an amazing mind. I've been following his work for years now. He presents things in a way that just makes so much sense - both in writing and speaking. 'Fingerprints of the Gods' was an amazing body of work, and 'Supernatural' will blow anybody away. He has been doing some of the most important studies in this field in modern times. Much respect to that guy.

 

[Ismene]

He does talk an awful lot of shit tho - there was a program exposing him a while ago where it showed his research was real bottom of the barrell erich von danikem horseshit

But I did enjoy the stuff he wrote about trying to contact his father thought psychedelics.

 

[Mac98]

I've been researching DMT pretty extensively for about 2 years. Listening to Terence McKenna, Graham Hancock, Joe Rogan, looking it up online, watching documentaries about it, talking to people who've tried it first hand...

I think Rogan just repeats that shit that he read in "DMT: The spirit molecule" only he doesn't understand it was all made-up theories with piss-all supporting evidence. So he says "DMT is released at death" as tho it's fact - it isn't. There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever it's released at death. When you read near-death experiences they sound nothing like DMT trips.

Mckenna goes on about the aliens - it's interesting to read about but I've never met any aliens on DMT. I'm not saying it's impossible - if you're a suggestible kind of person and read a lot about seeing aliens on DMT then you probably will.

Rick Strassman has always admitted that these were theory. That doesn not make them real nor does it make them false. They are theories. Hypothesees.

What I like about Joe Rogan is his incredible nack at expressing himself. He makes it very easy to understand and although he might not get all the facts completely straight, he's really interesting to listen to and brings forth ideas that help see things in a different light. Same thing can be said about Terence McKenna.

He does talk an awful lot of shit tho - there was a program exposing him a while ago where it showed his research was real bottom of the barrell erich von danikem horseshit

But I did enjoy the stuff he wrote about trying to contact his father thought psychedelics.

Anywhere Graham Hancock goes, there'll always be a debunker lurking somewhere. For the sheer fact that he questions modern science and our modern way of understanding things. Ex: He gets a lot of slack from Egyptologists because he refutes their theories on, for example, how the pyramids were built.

Same thing happened with Galileo or Copernicus. Some people just get upset when their status quo is shaken...

 

[Solipsis]

Yeah solipsis I get what you're saying - taking it in a way that instantly rockets you to the peak isn't something you can prepare for and can be unpleasant. I found that anal DMT trip about as much fun as being in a car crash. But I think that's partly down to the method of ingesting it - when you take it orally you have chance to aclimatise and get used to what's happening, the intensity gradually builds bit by bit.

Yes it seems I forgot to say a similar thing in my post. I cannot say it from personal experience that oral DMT would indeed be better but yes vaporized it is too fast to really work with, 4-AcO-DMT reminds me of N,N-DMT very much but is so much more dilated. I expect oral DMT to be that as well: more dilated.

Oral DMT will be grand

 

[TheAppleCore]

I cannot say it from personal experience that oral DMT would indeed be better but yes vaporized it is too fast to really work with

I'd be hesitant to make such a claim. Clearly a lot of people have benefitted immensely from smoked DMT.

Plus, if you're smoking DMT, rather than taking it orally, you've really got more freedom when it comes to pushing the drug to its limits. I know I said this earlier, but there are places you can go on smoked DMT that no sane human being would subject themselves to for hours on end.

 

[Ismene]

Rick Strassman has always admitted that these were theory. That doesn not make them real nor does it make them false. They are theories. Hypothesees.

Yeah but there are theories and there are theories arn't there. There's Einsteins theory of relativity. And there's then some bloke saying "I think DMT is released at death" because he thinks it will widen his audience and help sell his book. I could tell you tomorrow "I have a theory that there's gold at the bottom of the street but you'll have to give me £10,000 to find out exactly where". My theory might be true...but what do you think?

 

[Ismene]

I'd be hesitant to make such a claim. Clearly a lot of people have benefitted immensely from smoked DMT.

Plus, if you're smoking DMT, rather than taking it orally, you've really got more freedom when it comes to pushing the drug to its limits. I know I said this earlier, but there are places you can go on smoked DMT that no sane human being would subject themselves to for hours on end.

True, if you can get something out of being rocketed to a peak within a few seconds then I'm not knocking it. Personally I can't.

 

[Flickering]

Actually, an ego-dissolution (or as some would call it "ego death") should be a perfectly beautiful and blissful experience. If you are experiencing a horrendous nightmare, it is because you are fighting it, and this can actually prevent a full dissolution taking place, and hence you don't get the re-birth feeling of bliss that you would normally feel on the comedown.

My experiences are quite limited, but I understand ego effects to occur in three categories...

Ego softening - where one loses attachment to their identity, to various extents, caring less about their name or history or any part of their personal narrative.

Ego scrambling / fragmentation - where one's identity gets ripped to pieces and they have no idea who or what they are. Fiction may intersperse with reality in a hazy and very confused idea of who and what the person is. This is what I was talking about, and it's been one of the most hellish things I've ever experienced.

Ego death - the ultimate form of ego softening, wherein one loses all sense of boundary and self... may be experienced as a terrible thing because it's a premature and transient form of enlightenment. Indeed if you're able to not fight it, it probably is amazing - I wouldn't know, though.

 

[IamMe90]

True, if you can get something out of being rocketed to a peak within a few seconds then I'm not knocking it. Personally I can't.

I totally agree with you. Smoked DMT was cool in a "wow wtf was that" novel way, but I found no real use out of smoking it more than a few times. I never gained anything... just inexplicable experience that was mostly forgotten after a day or two anyway.

 

[skillet]

I have tried it anally which blasted me into the most intense DMT trip I've ever had but that wasn't particularly enjoyable. I think oral gives you time to digest the experience and give you the bodyhigh.

How did you do that? With an MAOI? I've been thinking about alternative ROA's since I really can't smoke enough of the stuff, and thought the consensus was that plugging doesn't work without an MAOI. Maybe I should try different methods of smoking, or go IM...

 

[Ismene]

Yeah it was with 300mg of moclobemide.

I was trying to avoid the nausea that the oral route gives you but I still vomited my guts up - I think there's something about having DMT in your system that makes you vomit either orally or anally.

Anally is very potent - I took the same amount as I would from an oral dose and I was seeing the same thing whether my eyes were open or closed. I wouldn't say it was a bad trip or anything, it was just way too intense to enjoy.

 

[skillet]

Ok thanks, so there's not much advantage over oral. The vomiting is kinda strange, people don't (AFAIK) vomit on smoked DMT, maybe it's something to do with the MAOI? Is changa more nauseating I wonder?

Where did you get all this moclobemide, if you don't mind/can say here, it sounds like you have an almost unlimited supply!? I need to actually get round to ordering some rue seeds...