Questions About DMT

[Mac98]

Yeah but there are theories and there are theories arn't there. There's Einsteins theory of relativity. And there's then some bloke saying "I think DMT is released at death" because he thinks it will widen his audience and help sell his book. I could tell you tomorrow "I have a theory that there's gold at the bottom of the street but you'll have to give me £10,000 to find out exactly where". My theory might be true...but what do you think?

You have absolutely no scientific basis to go on. Rick Strassman does have SOME. Albeit it may be a long stretch. I don't know, I've never personally studied the complexe human brain, let alone the pineal gland. Also, this one claim probably did very little in terms of marketing for his book and/or documentary.

And in conclusion, The Spirit Molecule remains the only true source of information on DMT in terms of documentaries or special reports. Reality is, there's very little research, study and general knowledge of what it is and what it does. And I think it's wrong for anyone of us to assume anything too quickly. This goes for both the people saying it's a divine drug meant to let us contact God or those saying it's "just a hallucinogen". We don't know. Let's not pretend we do.

 

[IamMe90]

Ok thanks, so there's not much advantage over oral. The vomiting is kinda strange, people don't (AFAIK) vomit on smoked DMT, maybe it's something to do with the MAOI? Is changa more nauseating I wonder?

Where did you get all this moclobemide, if you don't mind/can say here, it sounds like you have an almost unlimited supply!? I need to actually get round to ordering some rue seeds...

Rue is really hard to get to work consistently. If you've got a little extra cash go for the moclobemide, it's easy to find online.

And, I vomit from smoked DMT sometimes. I think the only reason I don't consistently is because the duration is so short I can hold it in and then it's gone. If it had the duration of oral I would almost certainly vomit every time.

 

[Ismene]

Ok thanks, so there's not much advantage over oral. The vomiting is kinda strange, people don't (AFAIK) vomit on smoked DMT, maybe it's something to do with the MAOI? Is changa more nauseating I wonder?

You can take moclobemide by itself and not get any nausea (I do get nausea from rue or caapi so I stick to moclo) but something happens when the DMT hits your system. At first I thought it was because freebase DMT is so alkaline your stomach rejects it but even when you dissolve the freebase DMT in a pint of coca-cola to make the DMT phosphate salt it still makes you throw up (Although once or twice I did avoid the nausea with the coca-cola but after a couple of times I started throwing up again). That's really what put me off oral DMT in the end - even tho it was my favourite drug. Mushrooms and moclo give you a nausea-free DMT trip so I stick to those now.

 

[Ismene]

You have absolutely no scientific basis to go on. Rick Strassman does have SOME. Albeit it may be a long stretch. I don't know, I've never personally studied the complexe human brain, let alone the pineal gland. Also, this one claim probably did very little in terms of marketing for his book and/or documentary.

I dunno, it's the one claim everyone says whenever DMT is mentioned isn't it - "It's released when you die dude...". It's bullshit. I enjoyed the book tho.

We don't know. Let's not pretend we do.

All I'm going on is my experience of taking it countless times. It is magical and there's a tremendous "presence" and feeling to it but all the stuff contacting aliens leaves me a bit cold. I think it takes away from your own experience to think it's anything to do with fucking aliens - I prefer seeing it as a relationship between myself and DMT.

And I don't believe it's "released in the brain" at any time - DMT is nothing like dreaming and I've never read a near-death experience that sounded anything like DMT.

 

[skillet]

Hmm, ok then I have no idea about the nausea. It's weird! And moclo does sound useful then, but I still want to try rue by itself, it sounds kinda interesting.

 

[any major dude]

You have absolutely no scientific basis to go on. Rick Strassman does have SOME. Albeit it may be a long stretch. I don't know, I've never personally studied the complexe human brain, let alone the pineal gland. Also, this one claim probably did very little in terms of marketing for his book and/or documentary.

And in conclusion, The Spirit Molecule remains the only true source of information on DMT in terms of documentaries or special reports. Reality is, there's very little research, study and general knowledge of what it is and what it does. And I think it's wrong for anyone of us to assume anything too quickly. This goes for both the people saying it's a divine drug meant to let us contact God or those saying it's "just a hallucinogen". We don't know. Let's not pretend we do.

Strassman's studies only looked at the effects of DMT, they did absolutely no study of where endogenous DMT comes from or when it is (putatively) released, or what purpose it would serve. Granted these postulations are from a scientist who studied DMT, but that is still kinda of like taking a bodywork guy's advice on fixing an engine, to make an automotive analogy

If you wanna read some more research on DMT, search pubmed for Cozzi & DMT

 

[Mac98]

I dunno, it's the one claim everyone says whenever DMT is mentioned isn't it - "It's released when you die dude...". It's bullshit. I enjoyed the book tho.

We don't know. Let's not pretend we do.

All I'm going on is my experience of taking it countless times. It is magical and there's a tremendous "presence" and feeling to it but all the stuff contacting aliens leaves me a bit cold. I think it takes away from your own experience to think it's anything to do with fucking aliens - I prefer seeing it as a relationship between myself and DMT.

And I don't believe it's "released in the brain" at any time - DMT is nothing like dreaming and I've never read a near-death experience that sounded anything like DMT.

I understand. You might percieve it that way, but I still think it's wrong for people to assume it's just another drug. In my personal surroundings, everyone I've spoken to who have tried DMT have said it has changed their life forever. It may sound like an exageration, but a lot of them said it was the most intense thing they've ever lived through. It MIGHT just be another drug. It might be nothing other than a hallucinogen that makes you trip out for a few minutes, but I would still think it's wrong to assume it's that for sure.

Strassman's studies only looked at the effects of DMT, they did absolutely no study of where endogenous DMT comes from or when it is (putatively) released, or what purpose it would serve. Granted these postulations are from a scientist who studied DMT, but that is still kinda of like taking a bodywork guy's advice on fixing an engine, to make an automotive analogy

If you wanna read some more research on DMT, search pubmed for Cozzi & DMT

I'm not saying Rick Strassman is the all-knowing lord of DMT and that everything you know about it should come from him. I'm just saying that no one else has ever published a book or documentary solely on their research on DMT... at least not as far as I know.

And I looked at the two listings for Cozzi & DMT on Pubmed and did not understand a word it said lolllll.

 

[Survived Abortion]

I dunno, it's the one claim everyone says whenever DMT is mentioned isn't it - "It's released when you die dude...". It's bullshit. I enjoyed the book tho.

We don't know. Let's not pretend we do.

All I'm going on is my experience of taking it countless times. It is magical and there's a tremendous "presence" and feeling to it but all the stuff contacting aliens leaves me a bit cold. I think it takes away from your own experience to think it's anything to do with fucking aliens - I prefer seeing it as a relationship between myself and DMT.

And I don't believe it's "released in the brain" at any time - DMT is nothing like dreaming and I've never read a near-death experience that sounded anything like DMT.

Once again, nobody is asserting these claims in this thread. You are raising issues from other threads and tearing their claims to pieces in this thread. You are comparing Rick Strassman's hypothesis with the obtuse example of claiming there is gold at the bottom of your road, and you will charge people £10,000 to find it. If you have indeed read his book, you will have been informed that there are certain logical and pharmacological reasons why he formulated his hypothesis, particular steps of reasoning which led him to it. There are no good logical steps to the assertion that there is gold at the bottom of your road, unless everyone knows that there is a vein of gold running through the area. Strassman's hypothesis may indeed be completely flawed - I don't think it's really important. The doors that Strassman's work opened was far more important than that one theory about a single molecule being the path to the afterlife. I think most people understand that as well. We know that DMT is produced in vivo, that has been a scientific fact predating Strassman's work by a long time. But it doesn't mean that that particular molecule is exclusively important compared to all the others. Most people who cuss Strassman do so on the false premise that his entire work is all resting upon DMT being made in the pineal gland being responsible for dreams and transportation to the afterlife. Why are we talking so much about Strassman anyway?

Besides, I believe that the OP is trying to see how people feel about the intensity of the 5-MeO-DMT experience, and how best to approach such a powerful transition. Simply because he has researched information about DMT from sources such as Graham Hancock, Rick Strassman, and Joe Rogan does not mean he has automatically subscribed to the view that DMT is the sole cause of near-death experiences and that it is the gateway to the heavans etc. Hancock doesn't even mention this. Your opinions of Hancock may be tarnished by documentaries you see on the sheeple's television berating his research as "bottom of the barrel", but it's pretty irrelevant. I like to find things out for myself, rather than imbibing someone else's viewpoint, especially if it comes on the TV. If anyone thought they knew everything about psychedelics because they listened to a few podcasts, they wouldn't be discussing it with us or trying it out for themselves.

Mac98, I've been using psychedelic drugs for nearly a decade now, and I find 5-MeO-DMT to cause much pre-flight anxiety. Like Salvia, it's not something I'm going to be doing very often. However, with Salvia I feel physically safer - it has such a dissociative element that I am almost physically incapacited for the duration of the trip. I have had incredible experiences of the hotly-debated entity contact, with both the short and the longer acting psychedelics. In fact I find the longer acting psychedelics more overall useful and enjoyable in this regard, because they seem to be more immersive and they allow you time to explore and grasp some understanding of the space. They allow an emotional connection with what you experience that you can bring back and access from the normal state.

 

[Ismene]

you will have been informed that there are certain logical and pharmacological reasons why he formulated his hypothesis, particular steps of reasoning which led him to it.

I didn't see any logical or pharmacological reasons - even his tutor said he was talking such complete bollocks that he wouldn't discuss it with him. What did he say? "The pineal has NOTHING to do with DMT". That didn't stop Strassman of course.

Simply because he has researched information about DMT from sources such as Graham Hancock, Rick Strassman, and Joe Rogan does not mean he has automatically subscribed to the view that DMT is the sole cause of near-death experiences and that it is the gateway to the heavans etc.

Well he did says that Strassman was the "only true source of information about DMT". I'm just letting him know that it's the source of an awful lot of horseshit about DMT too.

Hancock doesn't even mention this.

Eh? Have you read the book? His sole reason for taking DMT was to contact his dead father. He goes into the aliens thing in-depth too.

Your opinions of Hancock may be tarnished by documentaries you see on the sheeple's television berating his research as "bottom of the barrel", but it's pretty irrelevant.

My opinion wasn't particularly tarnished by that - it was his own writing that tarnished my opinion of him.

 

[Love In Vein]

Hi y'all!

I just recently found a source for 5-MEO-DMT. I have a few questions, though, about how to respect DMT. I'm not using it for recreational purposes, I actually want to respect its beneficial qualities.

Like others have said, there is a major difference in the effects between 5-MeO-DTM and DMT.

5-MeO-DMT is strange in that you inhale, inhale, inhale. You hold it. Everything is fine. As soon as you exhale, the best way to describe the experience is that your reality is shattered and you have 10 minutes to put it back together.

It can be frightening, it can be neutral, it cam be positive.

My friends and I would just refer to it as "whoa" when we used it back i n the late 90's. Because that was all we would be able to utter. "Whoa".

There are visual changes... but it's hard to describe, because it's not like with other hallucinogens. I would definitely recommend doing it outside during the day. And make sure if you're using it with someone who has not used it before, that they act as a sitter. But generally you'll be too incapacitated, sitting down and just being in awe of everything.

DMT will transport you into another dimension of elves or aliens for 10 minutes. It's a completely different experience.

 

[Survived Abortion]

Hancock doesn't even mention this.

Eh? Have you read the book? His sole reason for taking DMT was to contact his dead father. He goes into the aliens thing in-depth too.

Aliens, faeries, angels, whatever you like to call them. My point is that he doesn't attribute these phenomenon simply to dimethyltryptamine or the hypothesis that it might be produced inside the pineal gland. That's mostly besides the point for Hancock's work. Like Jeremy Narby, he puts more focus on the enigma of DNA than DMT. If you're familiar with his older works about ancient civilizations, you'll see it's pretty much an extension of that in to more etheric and misunderstood realms.

By the way, it was ibogaine he took he to contact his dead father.

 

[IamMe90]

Hallucinating deceased relatives is by no means an uncommon experience on ibogaine, yeah

 

[Ismene]

Aliens, faeries, angels, whatever you like to call them. My point is that he doesn't attribute these phenomenon simply to dimethyltryptamine or the hypothesis that it might be produced inside the pineal gland.

Oh he does. Read the chapter "Among the machine elves". He even goes as far as to say the idea of "fairies" in our past was DMT trips and then it became "aliens" recently. What utter horseshit.

That's mostly besides the point for Hancock's work

No, there's at least 2 or 3 chapters dedicated to nothing but alien abduction stories he takes from Strassman. There's even an interview with Strassman in the back of the book.

Like Jeremy Narby, he puts more focus on the enigma of DNA than DMT

I don't think he does anything "like" jeremy narby - he rips off Narby's idea of DNA being like DMT but there's nothing original in his own work.

What did you think to Narby's idea that "seeing the boa" is somehow "seeing the DNA"? Sounds like a right load doesn't it.

By the way, it was ibogaine he took he to contact his dead father.

And the Ibogaine doesn't work so he tries ayahuasca to contact his dead father.

 

[Ismene]

Hallucinating deceased relatives is by no means an uncommon experience on ibogaine, yeah

Well, reports from african tribes suggest they contact dead relatives but don't just conclude that means ibogaine does that to everyone. If you're in an african tribe and the witchdoctor is telling you "This will help you see dead relatives" and you know that unless you say you saw a dead relative everyone will think you're "unclean" cos the spirit didn't visit you then..it's probably a good idea to say "Yeah, I saw my dead relative".

Don't separate the drug from the context it's being taken in.

 

[Mac98]

you will have been informed that there are certain logical and pharmacological reasons why he formulated his hypothesis, particular steps of reasoning which led him to it.

I didn't see any logical or pharmacological reasons - even his tutor said he was talking such complete bollocks that he wouldn't discuss it with him. What did he say? "The pineal has NOTHING to do with DMT". That didn't stop Strassman of course.

Simply because he has researched information about DMT from sources such as Graham Hancock, Rick Strassman, and Joe Rogan does not mean he has automatically subscribed to the view that DMT is the sole cause of near-death experiences and that it is the gateway to the heavans etc.

Well he did says that Strassman was the "only true source of information about DMT". I'm just letting him know that it's the source of an awful lot of horseshit about DMT too.

Hancock doesn't even mention this.

Eh? Have you read the book? His sole reason for taking DMT was to contact his dead father. He goes into the aliens thing in-depth too.

Your opinions of Hancock may be tarnished by documentaries you see on the sheeple's television berating his research as "bottom of the barrel", but it's pretty irrelevant.

My opinion wasn't particularly tarnished by that - it was his own writing that tarnished my opinion of him.

I mentioned TRUE source as in the fact that if you're looking to research DMT, your best bet is Rick Strassman. Like I said, he's never said any of this is fact but only theory. Whether it has anything to do with the pineal gland or not is unknown because it's all theory. We don't know.

In fact, pretty much every HUGE scientific discovery started off as a simple theory. Maybe he's wrong, but at least it's pushing people to research it for themselves. In fact, Rick Strassman helped put DMT on the map and bring it to the awareness of people. I didn't know about it before Joe Rogan and Joe Rogan learned about it because of Rick Strassman. So like it or not, it's because of Strassman that I've found out about DMT.

As for Graham Hancock, yes. He does mention HIS experience with ayahuasca. You don't believe that DMT is a portal to a higher intelligence or reality? Fine. But you can't berate those who do because the fact is that no one knows and everyone will live their trip and assess it in their own way (this being said, I'm not saying YOU personally berated people who believe this, I'm just saying in general). What I respect so much about Graham Hancock is that he doesn't just make up theories. He actually studies them. He goes on ground zero, gathers up information, evidence, etc. to formulate a very relevant and appropriate hypothesis.

Like others have said, there is a major difference in the effects between 5-MeO-DTM and DMT.

5-MeO-DMT is strange in that you inhale, inhale, inhale. You hold it. Everything is fine. As soon as you exhale, the best way to describe the experience is that your reality is shattered and you have 10 minutes to put it back together.

It can be frightening, it can be neutral, it cam be positive.

My friends and I would just refer to it as "whoa" when we used it back i n the late 90's. Because that was all we would be able to utter. "Whoa".

There are visual changes... but it's hard to describe, because it's not like with other hallucinogens. I would definitely recommend doing it outside during the day. And make sure if you're using it with someone who has not used it before, that they act as a sitter. But generally you'll be too incapacitated, sitting down and just being in awe of everything.

DMT will transport you into another dimension of elves or aliens for 10 minutes. It's a completely different experience.

Well this is what I don't understand, though. DO you hallucinate on 5-MEO? If it's 4x more potent, wouldn't it be even MORE hallucinating than NN-DMT? Cuz in my mind, if NN lets you transcend space and time... but 5-meo is more intense than that... then what the FUCK happens on 5-meo? hahaha

 

[Mac98]

Ismene: I'm not saying you're wrong in what you're saying. I just think it's naive to discard all these claims as "horseshit" or bullocks. The fact is that you don't know.

MAYBE drugs are just drugs that you take to fuck you up and get real high and have a good time. But maybe there's something beyond it that our feeble little minds can't quite grasp without them. I've seen some crazy shit happen to some friends of mine on MDMA (which isn't even supposed to be a hallucinogen) that changed the way they see and perceive things today. If drugs can do that, imo, they're here for a reason and these so called "wild claims" might not be as crazy of illusionary as we might believe.

"The only thing I know for sure is that I know nothing."

Words to live by, my friend...

 

[IamMe90]

Well this is what I don't understand, though. DO you hallucinate on 5-MEO? If it's 4x more potent, wouldn't it be even MORE hallucinating than NN-DMT? Cuz in my mind, if NN lets you transcend space and time... but 5-meo is more intense than that... then what the FUCK happens on 5-meo? hahaha

Potency is not equivalent to "more effects," it means the amount of chemical by weight that you have to take to achieve effects.

When talking about two chemicals comparably, something that is more potent takes less chemical by weight to achieve comparable (comparable being dubious since the chemicals have different effects, but there is generally a sort of spectrum of effects for each chemicals, and two chems can take different amounts to reach the same spot in its respective spectrum) effects is more potent.

5-meo-DMT is more potent than DMT because a breakthrough on 5-meo can be reached at, say, 10-20mg vaped 5-meo-dmt and usually it requires about 50 + mg on N,N-DMT.

I don't have personal experience with 5-meo, although I would like to try it, but I hear that the effects of 5-meo are much less visual and much more mental - losing your sense of self, being "plugged in," to the universe, so to speak, etc. Perhaps they are visual in a sense, but not in the same overt sense as N,N-DMT I'm guessing, which is largely visual.

 

[Ismene]

I just think it's naive to discard all these claims as "horseshit" or bullocks

It's these two specific claims that I find most horseshitty Mac - the idea that DMT is responsible for near-death experiences and that it's something to do with dreaming. I've read about near-death experiences and they arn't anything like a DMT trip. Neither is dreaming.

It just pisses me off when you hear Joe Rogan saying "DMT is what's released when you die".

DMT is definately a magical experience tho. It has a special presence to it, you feel like there's something alive in you. I remember Mckenna asking Albert Hoffman why he preferred LSD to psilocybin and he said he didn't like how psilocybin was animate - as tho it had a presence. DMT has that just as much if not more than psilocybin. It's definatly like experiencing life from the perspective of a god for a few hours rather than a human being.

 

[Survived Abortion]

What did you think to Narby's idea that "seeing the boa" is somehow "seeing the DNA"? Sounds like a right load doesn't it.

I thought that it was quite a clever idea. Of course anybody could arrive at different conclusions to what they think such things as giant snakes may represent in their dreams or hallucinations, but have you ever seen anyone give such a detailed and focused presentation about that particular issue as Narby? It doesn't sound like a "right load", because again, if you read the book he gives a very detailed progression of logical steps which he took in order to reach such a hypothetical conclusion. I'm not saying that any of these hypothesis are the gospel truth, but I will not be so arrogant as to diminish them as "horseshit". If you prefer to think of snakes in your dreams as simply snakes, or whether represent a natural phobia, that's fine. I'm sure that is just as applicable. But due to the fractal nature of the universe (which must be obvious to every psyche head), there is an undeniable truth about the similarity in at least the very form of something like the serpent and the form of DNA. This doesn't mean serpent= DNA It is a suggestion that we look deeper at these archetypes to see how they spring out of the scaling of fractal iterations in our very reality.

 

[YellowNikes]

diggin the skepticism Ismene, its rather refreshing