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Misc Less water = Greater rush, truth or myth?

ektamine

ektamine

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READ: I searched. I found a thread asking this question, but it got closed for arbitrary reasons. Before it was closed it seemed there were conflicting opinions but no conclusion.

So what do you think? Does using less water in a shot increase the strength or onset of the initial rush?
If anyone could link to a source that would be even better. It seems there are conflicting opinions on the issue. I am aware that more dilute = less damaging.
 
Depends on tolerance.

You have a low tolerance, you can dilute a small shot and still get excellent results. However if you have a high tolerance, diluting your shot can leave you with two shots worth of solution, ruining chances of a decent rush. Just be careful, the only time i really almost OD'ed while IVing was when i was 'un-diluting' cocaine. I would used water with cocaine dissolved in it to dissolve more cocaine. Lets just say it's difficult to judge potency like this because you don't know what cuts in the coke may or may not be diluting the amount of dissolved cocaine.

Just be careful, don't do anything stupid. Know the potency and know your limit.
 
I mostly IV MDPV atm, and crystal, but rarely ever opiates because all thats cheap around here is tar. MDPV is so potent by weight, realistically you'll choose somewhere between the range of 5 - 100 units. I am a bit skeptical that this small variation of water (which is a tiny amount regardless of what you choose) will significantly effect the intensity of the rush or the damage to the veins. Especially since the substances I inject require such low weighted doses.

I can see how having to push two separate shots might significantly effect the rush, and I can see how HEAVILY (say 10 - 50cc) diluting a solution could slow absorption, but if your talking under 100units difference it seems trivial.

I can't really notice much of difference, but some people swear by it. Still I would like to have it explained to me in a bit of detail to lay the curiosity to rest.
 
Here's my theory. If you use little water, you either hit 100% or miss 100%.

If you use more water, you often miss 20% of the shot but seldom miss it wholesale.

Therefore the overall impression that the strongest hits are those where little water is used.
 
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^ i disagree. the solution may be diluted but you're still getting the full dose of the drug when injected.

its definitely a myth in my opinion and experience; there's been quite a few discussions on this topic so check out the search engine.
 
^I think his theory is if you use a large amount of liquid you "often" infiltrate (miss the shot) after 80% has been successfully pushed.

It's possible that the extra time required to inject results in more complications as well as a slower initial rush. This is not direct result of more liquid though merely a possible indirect one.
 
Exactly.

For completeness, it should be noted that missing the end of a shot is very common with substances that cause veins to shrink. Coke is one of them.

You start injecting successfully, then the vein closes down on your needle and the slightest move causes it to slip out of go through.
 
Wouldn't the extra couple of seconds you might have to take whilst injecting a greater volume of liquid mean that the drug would take longer to get to the brain, hence "diluting" the rush?

I don't really think the solution being weaker is a factor, as all the drug is getting in there regardless.

BTW, never injected anything, though I am curious and would like to; maybe when I'm 70 and have nothing to lose.
 
in my experience stronger shots come from thicker dilutions, only mater is you gotts get it all in the vein but then even thats just a different matter regarding harm reduction. if your using, make sure you give this forum a GOOD BROWSE many addicts will tell you straight and some ex ones arent here to tell you , go figutre, am i lucky? no, just fortunate
 
I always use the 1cc needles and used 80-90 units, my reasoning was that there is always some water left behind on the spoon/cooker, and if you only use 20 units for a couple bags of powder h then the stuff left behind on the spoon/cotton is still a decent amount of h, as depending on the cotton even if you squeeze it out there is still like 2-5 units left behind that is hard to get, and if your only using 20 thats like 10-25% of your shot, and also if your the type that has to get the bubble all the way out then you can lose even more. Any difference in the rush is negligible, so to answer your question no, when using a 1/2 cc or 1 cc rig the amount of water isn't big enough to cause a difference in rush and you lose more drug that way that gets left behind or if you accidently squirt some out etc
 
Thanks for the discussions so far everyone. One strange thing I've noticed, it seems on the 'net many of the people I have read that advocate using less water because it produces a greater rush are the crystal (methamphetamine) bangers. Do you attribute this to a placebo effect stronger in crystal users because their reasons for injecting are more based around the rush?

After reading affasd's post –
NSFW:
affasd said:
I always use the 1cc needles and used 80-90 units, my reasoning was that there is always some water left behind on the spoon/cooker, and if you only use 20 units for a couple bags of powder h then the stuff left behind on the spoon/cotton is still a decent amount of h, as depending on the cotton even if you squeeze it out there is still like 2-5 units left behind that is hard to get, and if your only using 20 thats like 10-25% of your shot, and also if your the type that has to get the bubble all the way out then you can lose even more. Any difference in the rush is negligible, so to answer your question no, when using a 1/2 cc or 1 cc rig the amount of water isn't big enough to cause a difference in rush and you lose more drug that way that gets left behind or if you accidently squirt some out etc
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I had another idea. Maybe the reason this is so often reported by IDU's is because most of us are shooting street substances which require filtration, usually through cotton for cost effectiveness. If the user wasn't very thorough in the drawing up process, there would likely be some substance left sitting in the cotton. As affasd mentioned above the more water used to draw up the more diluted any remaining substance will be, indirectly creating a stronger shot.
 
^^Very true both of you. I hadn't thought of that but indeed it's another indirect effect of dilution. Unfortunately it goes directly against the theory that less dilution makes for a stronger shot if that is what is being reported by intravenous drug users.
 
amapola said:
^^Very true both of you. I hadn't thought of that but indeed it's another indirect effect of dilution. Unfortunately it goes directly against the theory that less dilution makes for a stronger shot if that is what is being reported by intravenous drug users.
Click to expand...

Right, which I'm about 90% sure I agree with too. I thought surveying IDU's of all walks of life would help clarify the truth (or lack of) behind this claim as it considers more factors than my own.

Any methamphetamine users out there have an opinion on this?
 
I was reading through this tread and thought it was pretty interesting and figured id chime in with my opinion. this is just a personal opinion and preference. With H, I wouldnt use alot of water. For 1 bag I would use 30units and for 2 bags I would use 50 units. I never really went over 60units of water for H. It was just my personal preference when IV'ing H. Now for the morphine IR pills. I use alot of water only bc I have read on here that it takes more water to disolve the morphine. So usually about 60-70units per 15mg pill. You lose alot of the water. I usually end up with 50units when I used 60-70 units of water. and thats even when I press down on the cotton filter to get every last drop I can. I never really thought of the whole potency more or less water thing. But with the pills I have noticed that if you use more water it does increase the potency of the shot so I try to use as much water as I can with the morphine pills. I never took note of this with H tho. And all of this is just my opinion. Nothing scientific. Just experience.
 
May I just add that to me the more water you use to absorb the drug the more surface area the binders fillers talc and substance your after are exposed to. Therefore the more chance for said drug to be dissolved in the water.

And yes tweakers the reason there is still dope on the spoon when your done is because a 1/4 gram is hard to fit in 10 units of water.....

Also what the fuck is with all this "oh I missed 20% of my shot" How in baby jesus name can you not tell if your in? I mean seriously once you start to push that mother down your hand should be locked in place/supported and steady. I have never once went "oh that burns but the first 80 units were good so ill just abcess this last 20" WTF!!!!

Sorry and thankyou
 
leftwing said:
^ i disagree. the solution may be diluted but you're still getting the full dose of the drug when injected.

its definitely a myth in my opinion and experience; there's been quite a few discussions on this topic so check out the search engine.
Click to expand...

THIS

i think its probably mostly placebo
 
XenoxyHcL said:
Also what the fuck is with all this "oh I missed 20% of my shot" How in baby jesus name can you not tell if your in? I mean seriously once you start to push that mother down your hand should be locked in place/supported and steady. I have never once went "oh that burns but the first 80 units were good so ill just abcess this last 20" WTF!!!!

Sorry and thankyou
Click to expand...


Yea unless using a tourniquet, I haven't really had that happen much either. There been times where I thought I could feel some leakage from a overused spot but other than that I usually hit or miss.
 
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