oh no!! the magic??

[rickolasnice]

^ No.. but tolerance is the case for most of them drugs in which a break will cause the user to experience the affects of the drugs when they initially started taking them. With MDMA alot of users report the "loss of magic" to be a very long term / permanent thing.

Also.. MDMA has an affect which leaves users feeling like: OMG OMG OMG THIS IS SO FUCKIN GOOD I LOVE YOU I LOVE EVERYTHING.. which then carries on into sober life.. giving that person a much more positive outlook.. no other drug, apart from maybe psychedelics, do this. And with psychedelics.. the affects may slightly change through familiarisation but it's nowhere near the same extent as MDMA.

We seem to be getting confused here as to what the point in this debate is. MDMA causes damage to brain cells which in turn change how the drug affects people.. ie.. losing the magic. Other drugs don't really have much of a change through abuse and if they do it's reversed by abstinence. Also, other drugs simply don't have the ability to cause such profound change of outlook on life as MDMA forces on you..

At the end of the day "the magic" is just a term coined to describe the affects of MDMA in the initial stages of use.. tolerance can cause this, yes, in which case a break is all that is needed. But the 100s of reports from people that simply can't get back to those initial stages suggest some long term changes within the brain have been made.

The reason other drugs don't have a term to suggest these initial stages of use suggests to me that they are simply not as good / important to the user.. You think 1 person coined the term for millions of others to experience and lose and care so much about? MDMA is a special drug, it can do wonderful things that other drugs just can't do (or atleast have a lot less a chance of doing)..

 

[shiznik]

1. I never said anything about the dopamine theory.

Yes you did. You wrote dopamine "destroys serotonin uptake receptors"

I remember what source you're talking about and I can't find it at the moment, but it basically said the patterns weren't as intricate. If you had intricately branching tree / fractal, imagine it was far simpler -- like a fractal of only two branching lines, branching into four branching into eight, etc. as opposed as three branching into six, branching into twelve, etc.

The same density simply is not there. Correct me if I'm remembering this wrong -- I have no sources on this one.

What about this result I mentioned earlier? These people took ectsasy 800 times on average... 800. Have you two who "lost the magic" taken ecstasy 800 times? You mention frequency of use, but if you've taken ecstasy 800 times, how infrequently could you be using it? Do the math. The density in those results is there, and there is a study of a baboon whose axons grew back denser in some areas.

As for the irregularity of their growth, that would leave you with your fair share of personality issues, but doesn't really account for the drug simply not working anymore.

Rick you are incredibly naive to say other drugs are not as good/important to the user. You are also incredibly naive to think that MDMA leaves all users with a positive outlook on life. You're taking your experience with it and speaking for everyone. This debate has been exhausted. If you want to believe you "lost your magic" rather than embrace the changes in your rolling experiences then so be it. I feel sorry for you.

 

[rickolasnice]

As for the irregularity of their growth, that would leave you with your fair share of personality issues, but doesn't really account for the drug simply not working anymore.

How the hell do you know?

Yes you did. You wrote dopamine "destroys serotonin uptake receptors"

Oh really? Where? For a start its either serotonin reuptake pumps or serotonin receptors.. of which i said neither.. plus the damage i believe is caused is actually to serotonin axons and dendrites.. EDIT OK just found where i quoted someone saying that.. i knew that theory had been dicredited i shoulda read it more clearly.. doesn't change the fact MDMA causes damage to 5-HT neurons..

And yeah ok i take back that other drugs are not as important / good to users. But why is it that so many people go on about the magic? It can't just be because you've read about it and believed it.. Most drugs either make you don't care or make you think like your more important that you are (exaggerated but pretty true) MDMAs affects or love, empathy, forming bonds, etc just don't appear in other types of drugs.. THAT is what i'd call the magic.

MDMA is neurotoxic. It may or may not be reversible.. If it is reversible the axons do not grow back correctly.. what this means i'm not sure. Less receptors? Shorter "branches"? Grow to the wrong areas? Any of these things could mean that the affects of MDMA on that user will permanently change. No?

Also, im not a retard. I have gone over a year without MDMA and the affects from tested MDMA are not the same as when i took it a few years ago.. it's not all in my head. It's not cos im familiar with the drug. How can me being familiar with the drug cause me to not get nystagmus anymore?

EDIT: That bar chart means nothing really?

EDIT2: I have alot of friends who have also gone longer than a year with no use of MDMA and the "magic" did not return.. My girlfriend went 3 and a half years..

A quote from my girlfriend regarding her first use of MDMA for 3 and a half years:

i got well rushin but it wasnt anywhere near like before, and ever since then i havent been able to get even that nice.

Meaning she was very affected.. but it lacked alot of affects that were present within the early days of use.. and ever since that day she hasn't been able to get anywhere near an affect as that day..

 

[rickolasnice]

You can't just discredit the 10000s of experiences of people because a few studies suggest that 5-ht axons MAY grow back but incorrectly.

 

[AndroidsDreamofBTC]

You are also incredibly naive to think that MDMA leaves all users with a positive outlook on life. You're taking your experience with it and speaking for everyone. This debate has been exhausted. If you want to believe you "lost your magic" rather than embrace the changes in your rolling experiences then so be it. I feel sorry for you.

I think we both know that what rick meant when he implied that MDMA tends to give you a positive outlook on life.

I respect your thorough attitude, but you can't really reduce the whole experience to just a few studies. I am not saying that these studies are incorrect, I am just pointing out that we largely don't know how the purely neurological effects of MDMA are related to our conscious experience with MDMA. I mean the brain is a pretty damn complicated piece of machinery.

 

[rickolasnice]

This debate has been exhausted. If you want to believe you "lost your magic" rather than embrace the changes in your rolling experiences then so be it. I feel sorry for you.

I do embrace the changes in my "rolling" experiences? I don't have to use the word magic here.. but the changes are most probably due to physiological changes seeing as we all know MDMA is neutoxic and damages 5-HT axons.. Nothing else has changed in my life for it to make such a drastic change of a drugs affect.

 

[shiznik]

Rick over and over again you describe exactly what I'm talking about. When I first took MDMA it blew my mind. It really did seem like magic. I didn't understand the experience and I was totally just along for the ride (hence the term rolling). It no longer blows my mind or seems magical at all, but I still roll my balls off several hundred pills later. Its just different, I don't consider it a loss of any kind.

Whatever your issue is, I'm sorry you have trouble with it, and hope some day it is resolved for you. I don't believe this phenomenon really could exist, but if it does for you, then that's real enough. I wish you good luck in the future. Maybe some day some information will surface explaining the exact nature of what you and so many other people suggest is happening to them.

 

[foxyloxy55]

^ No.. but tolerance is the case for most of them drugs in which a break will cause the user to experience the affects of the drugs when they initially started taking them. With MDMA alot of users report the "loss of magic" to be a very long term / permanent thing.

Also.. MDMA has an affect which leaves users feeling like: OMG OMG OMG THIS IS SO FUCKIN GOOD I LOVE YOU I LOVE EVERYTHING.. which then carries on into sober life.. giving that person a much more positive outlook.. no other drug, apart from maybe psychedelics, do this. And with psychedelics.. the affects may slightly change through familiarisation but it's nowhere near the same extent as MDMA.

We seem to be getting confused here as to what the point in this debate is. MDMA causes damage to brain cells which in turn change how the drug affects people.. ie.. losing the magic. Other drugs don't really have much of a change through abuse and if they do it's reversed by abstinence. Also, other drugs simply don't have the ability to cause such profound change of outlook on life as MDMA forces on you..

At the end of the day "the magic" is just a term coined to describe the affects of MDMA in the initial stages of use.. tolerance can cause this, yes, in which case a break is all that is needed. But the 100s of reports from people that simply can't get back to those initial stages suggest some long term changes within the brain have been made.

The reason other drugs don't have a term to suggest these initial stages of use suggests to me that they are simply not as good / important to the user.. You think 1 person coined the term for millions of others to experience and lose and care so much about? MDMA is a special drug, it can do wonderful things that other drugs just can't do (or atleast have a lot less a chance of doing)..

I agree that this topic has been exhausted, so I only have one more thing to say, and that's that you are simply wrong about this. Plenty of other drugs have the ability to change a person's outlook. Many people find psychedelics to be much more mind opening than MDMA. Just because it had the most profound effect on you personally, does not mean this is the case for everyone.

 

[griffenspade]

Wow, this turned into a far more complicated debate than I thought. I learned some important things, 3 weeks is not a long enough break. And 400-500 rolls is a bit excessive, Iv used 6-10 rolls over a weekend. Sometimes for multiple weekends, Iv slowed down a bit after a pretty intense psychotic break. But Idk, its something that I will always love. I'm just afraid of letting it go, Just having it in my pocket puts a smile on my face : )

 

[socalthizzn]

Wow, this turned into a far more complicated debate than I thought. I learned some important things, 3 weeks is not a long enough break. And 400-500 rolls is a bit excessive, Iv used 6-10 rolls over a weekend. Sometimes for multiple weekends, Iv slowed down a bit after a pretty intense psychotic break. But Idk, its something that I will always love. I'm just afraid of letting it go, Just having it in my pocket puts a smile on my face : )

Let it go man. It doesnt make you cool. Just etarded.

 

[MasterSplinter]

When I first took MDMA it blew my mind. It really did seem like magic. I didn't understand the experience and I was totally just along for the ride (hence the term rolling). It no longer blows my mind or seems magical at all,

Why you so Jaded bro? Did your abuse the fuck out of MDMA or something? I did and I still have a positive outlook..

 

[I<3Molly92]

im 19,ive been rolling for 2 years. takn somehwere about 300 MDXX mid- MDXX high rolls .and done about a quarter of molly ovre the last year. the most ive taken in one night was 12 aliens. i took a month break and rolled off 5 tabs spread out trhought a house club from 10pm - 4pm then an afterhours rave from 4am-8am. i still have the magic. kinda /:

 

[rickolasnice]

I agree that this topic has been exhausted, so I only have one more thing to say, and that's that you are simply wrong about this. Plenty of other drugs have the ability to change a person's outlook. Many people find psychedelics to be much more mind opening than MDMA. Just because it had the most profound effect on you personally, does not mean this is the case for everyone.

Yes, i mentioned psychedelics.. they, however, don't seem to vary too much from use to use, even with tolerance.. and i can't think of 1 case of saying the they can't get that enlightenment feeling anymore after abuse.. after giving it a few months. They also have a small chance of sending the person into a spiralling pit of depression and anxiety from 1 dose.. it's a hit or miss alot more so than with MDMA and again.. abistence from true pschs tend to lead to a experience reminiscent of initial use. With psychedelics the affects can indeed become samey but the overall affects are still present, may be some what diminished.. where as MDMAs affect go from the most euporic drug in the world (to some) to causing dysphoria and depression while ON the substance. The drugs affects simply change in peoples brains that have abused it.. depending on the abuse will depend one wether or not the "magic" will return and to what degree.

Psychedelics can also bring out things in people that are best left in the shadows..

 

[socalthizzn]

im 19,ive been rolling for 2 years. takn somehwere about 300 MDXX mid- MDXX high rolls .and done about a quarter of molly ovre the last year. the most ive taken in one night was 12 aliens. i took a month break and rolled off 5 tabs spread out trhought a house club from 10pm - 4pm then an afterhours rave from 4am-8am. i still have the magic. kinda /:

^^http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=264079

 

[Warped Reality]

Is the magic going? D:

Let me tell you a bit about my ecstasy use... I started a little bit ago. When I started, I did it about every week for about a month and a half (not as bad as some people) but each time I was doing 1-3 pills, then once I started feeling the bad effects of it - I knew it was time to slow down. While I was doing them for that one month, I felt AMAZING on them. All I did was talk to my friends about how much I loved them, I had the best conversations, my body felt amazing, music sounded amazing, everything looked amazing... Now that I do it once every 1-2 months, I usually need to do about 3-4 pills a night to get as high as I usually do, but I find that the body high is completely gone. I can bond with my friends, my eyes roll, my jaw clenches, but no body high, and music doesn't sound good. And the entire time I'm really jittery and just want to be doing things but I never know what (Almost like I'm anxious.). Now I know at this point a lot of you will be thinking "He's just taking pipes" but I can feel some of the MDMA effects - Eye wiggles, tracers, jaw clenching, etc. But my body just doesn't feel good any more, and everything looks the same - I want to be loving everything I touch and whatnot... like what ecstasy is supposed to be about.

The odd thing is - is that everybody else feels a really strong body high. Even when they're on the same pills as me...

Does anybody know what's going on?

I'm taking 5-HTP regularly 3 times a day btw.

 

[socalthizzn]

Let me tell you a bit about my ecstasy use... I started a little bit ago. When I started, I did it about every week for about a month and a half (not as bad as some people) but each time I was doing 1-3 pills, then once I started feeling the bad effects of it - I knew it was time to slow down. While I was doing them for that one month, I felt AMAZING on them. All I did was talk to my friends about how much I loved them, I had the best conversations, my body felt amazing, music sounded amazing, everything looked amazing... Now that I do it once every 1-2 months, I usually need to do about 3-4 pills a night to get as high as I usually do, but I find that the body high is completely gone. I can bond with my friends, my eyes roll, my jaw clenches, but no body high, and music doesn't sound good. And the entire time I'm really jittery and just want to be doing things but I never know what (Almost like I'm anxious.). Now I know at this point a lot of you will be thinking "He's just taking pipes" but I can feel some of the MDMA effects - Eye wiggles, tracers, jaw clenching, etc. But my body just doesn't feel good any more, and everything looks the same - I want to be loving everything I touch and whatnot... like what ecstasy is supposed to be about.

The odd thing is - is that everybody else feels a really strong body high. Even when they're on the same pills as me...

Does anybody know what's going on?

I'm taking 5-HTP regularly 3 times a day btw.

Why dont you just take a 90 day break and then space the rolls out by 60-90 days from then out?

Or take 3.2+ grams piracetam each day for a week before you roll. Worked wonders for me.

 

[socalthizzn]

My rolls w/o piracetam : http://www.pillreports.com/index.php?page=display_pill&id=22122

W/ piracetam : http://www.pillreports.com/index.php?page=display_pill&id=24362

 

[nwofoxhound]

What kind of regimen would you recommend? I know you were taking around 3.2 for two weeks prior but I heard to only take piracetam for one week before or even just a few days before (attack doses)? I like to use piracetam for daily function but Im scared if I take it in low amounts for a month, and then attack does the last week before roll, that the effects would be diminished? Suggestions?

 

[socalthizzn]

What kind of regimen would you recommend? I know you were taking around 3.2 for two weeks prior but I heard to only take piracetam for one week before or even just a few days before (attack doses)? I like to use piracetam for daily function but Im scared if I take it in low amounts for a month, and then attack does the last week before roll, that the effects would be diminished? Suggestions?

Ive tried attack dose but i found thru trial and error that it doesnt work as well as full saturation. If your taking 1-2 grams a day the up it to 3+ grams for roll week id imagine it would work well. It does build tolerance so if your taking it daily you may want to stop every 4th month and the 3 months u are taking it up your dose a little every month.

 

[foxyloxy55]

Yes, i mentioned psychedelics.. they, however, don't seem to vary too much from use to use, even with tolerance.. and i can't think of 1 case of saying the they can't get that enlightenment feeling anymore after abuse.. after giving it a few months. They also have a small chance of sending the person into a spiralling pit of depression and anxiety from 1 dose.. it's a hit or miss alot more so than with MDMA and again.. abistence from true pschs tend to lead to a experience reminiscent of initial use. With psychedelics the affects can indeed become samey but the overall affects are still present, may be some what diminished.. where as MDMAs affect go from the most euporic drug in the world (to some) to causing dysphoria and depression while ON the substance. The drugs affects simply change in peoples brains that have abused it.. depending on the abuse will depend one wether or not the "magic" will return and to what degree.

Psychedelics can also bring out things in people that are best left in the shadows..

Hmmm... When I was a teenager, I ate acid every week for like 6 months. It was the same acid each time (I know this because I had a large supply) and I can tell you that I definitely built up a tolerance to it. I would also say that psychedelics can fuck with a person's head just like MDMA can. My brother ate it so much, he quit his job and lived in his room in utter misery for about 8 months.

Like I said earlier, this topic has been exhausted and isn't really worth the effort anymore. I do not believe in any permanent "loss of magic" and I speak from a lot of experience. You do and that's fine.