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My theory about hppd

Wow..

One of the most important quotes I've ever heard went something like "Being able to entertain an idea without fully adopting it shows great wisdom."

Some of you guys need to take an actual college philosophy class and learn to discuss these things a little more civilly and objectively.



nice quote :)

if your second statement was directed at me: i actually studied philosophy at university for 2 years... doesn't prevent me from believing what i believe :D

i would love to be able to discuss these kind of things in english on the same level as i could in my mothertongue...

on the other hand i propably wouldn't as i have better things to do with my time - like painting fractals...

btw proofing of metaphysical concepts:

can you proof the free-will? or can you proof determinism?

you can't proof either... but the placebo effect results in that those who believe to be free are free and those who don't are not free... funny isn't it?
 
Perceive what you will or wont..... My theory is that theres nothing... we are just here, why? because we aaaaaaaare! lol
 
your right about it being semantics, and largely a problem of language
If it is just a problem of language, then "chakras" are no more than special points in our body. No more, there are no energy flowing through it.

Some Einstein quotes to consider;
A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)
Another Einstein quote: "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses".

There is nothing super-natural about spiritual energy. It is all completely natural, I assure you. You can find this out for yourself.
No, I cannot prove the existence of chakras and astral projection. Nobody can
You're contradicting yourself. This is quote from wiki of what I(and other people) understand of "supernatural":
The supernatural or supranatural (Latin: super, supra "above" + natura "nature") is anything above or beyond what one holds to be natural or exists outside natural law and the observable universe"

The problem comes when people such as yourself are constantly telling those who are able to perceive beyond the five senses that what they are experiencing is wrong. Imagine being an open receiver to far more information than your mind is used to accepting as reality, and other people telling you that you're crazy and delusional, or that it's the work of the devil. That is why people crack and end up in hospitals, on mind-destroying anti-psychotics.
OMG, hallucinations are just hallucinations. And although I agree that it is alright for that person to experience them, sometimes hallucinations can be dangerous.
Where are your proofs? I don't see any sense or reason in interpreting hallucinations as "perceiving more about other world". Maybe it is perceiving more about your own subconscious.

The super-conscious, or universal mind that connects everything
Show me it. Prove its existence.

Allium, can you conceive that there may be things beyond your hunter-gatherer level of awareness which cannot be exploited as a global commodity (due to their aspect beyond the immediate flesh) but which may be immensley useful to the individual, and thus the universe at large?
There are things that I cannot perceive, because my capabilities are limited(like, say, I cannot see/touch every individual atom in my t-shirt), but these things can be perceived in other way.
What are the things you talking about? How can they be useful for us?

Of course, I am always open to new ideas and new knowledge. But I am not going to believe in things which "Nobody can prove".

To the skeptics, you should be skeptical of everything you have ever been taught, and that you have based your ideas upon to be skeptical of those things which you havn't experienced yet. How do you know that everything you think you know based on what you have learned from external sources is true? Because the television said so?
Too much consiparacy. There are always scepsis in science, experiments and studies are sometimes proven as wrong/incorrect. All experiments are repeated multiple times.

IMO Science is slllllooooooowwwlllyyyyyyy uncovering these secrets. The whole field of quamtum mechanics and theoretical physics is doing just so.....the whole concept of "dark matter" and "parallel dimensions" blows my mind.
What secrests? "Dark matter" is just such matter that don't interact with our usual matter very much.

This is obviously backwards, since the scientific method does not provide knowledge of anything beyond mere speculation about observed results.
science.jpg

The very big difference between science and ... uh, "spiritual" point of view(can I call it this way?) is that the science really works. Adore the science for the ability to argue here on bluelight.
I can "telepathically" transfer my thoughts with just pressing "Post Quick Reply". Show me anything that cool. I mean, anything cool that I would be able to do with "3rd eye" or any other "spiritual" concept.

People, who are contemptuous of science, are clearly underestimating it.
 
can you proof love?
Your question is too ambigous.
Love is just feeling in your head(or heart, if you wish).
I never denied the existence of feelings of chakras/third eye/spiritual energy. I mean, some people definitely have such feelings. But in my opinion these people are somewhat delusional.

In short: feelings are real, chakras are not.
 
Show me it. Prove its existence.
Mirror neurons at least suggest the interconnectedness of human brains. And here is something bridging both the scientific and broader "spiritual" spectrum.

And one thing about the human brain--few things can be proven with just rote application of scientific methodology--these things require both the synthesis of known data, INCLUDING the qualitative, and interpretation.
 
^
Mirror neurons suggest the interconnectedness of human brains in the same way as communication or language suggests. Aren't they just low-level thing that helps learning(and other complex things)?
And I don't see how existence of universal mind follows from existence of mirror neurons.

And one thing about the human brain--few things can be proven with just rote application of scientific methodology--these things require both the synthesis of known data, INCLUDING the qualitative, and interpretation.
Could you please explain this further? English is my second language, and sometimes things are difficult to understand for me.
 
allium, if love is too ambigous for you, try this one:


btw proofing of metaphysical concepts:

can you proof the free-will? or can you proof determinism?

you can't proof either... but the placebo effect results in that those who believe to be free are free and those who don't are not free... funny isn't it?


If you accept that the subjective feeling of chakras is real, than you accept that chakras are real (for the persons who feel them) that's what placebo effect is about ;)

and to judge people who feel chakras as delusional is just plain ignorant, you can call them that once you have proven that chakras do not exist, but until then you will just have to accept that reality is always subjective and that some prefer to interpret certain feelings different from how you interpret them.

Really you should keep your urge to evangelise people in check... it's just as annoying when it comes from scientists as when it comes from priests :)
 
Ah, here's the kicker, no one is claiming free-will or determinism is real, they're philosophical concepts, so far, I don't think science has proved one to exist, if that would somehow happen (let's say proof that there is a particle who's behavior is random), it would invalidate a branch of philosophy. Though that's really not what physicist focus on.

And you see the catch here is, science is not claiming these things exists, it will acknowledge that they might exist or they might not exist. However, if no concrete evidence points towards the existence of something, you can't say it exists and hope everyone in the world will accept that fact, we're challenging your ideas and concepts, and the reason we challenge them is that you will find a way, to make them universally recognizable, if you don't show any solid evidence, we won't believe you. While it's nice to be open minded, some of us like hard proof before dabbling in things.

I accept the fact that you believe in them, but some people have strange beliefs, so unfortunately that's not enough to make something universally acceptable, which is pretty much what this debate is about. Whether chakras have enough backing to be universally recognized.
 
Ah, here's the kicker, no one is claiming free-will or determinism is real, they're philosophical concepts, so far, I don't think science has proved one to exist, if that would somehow happen (let's say proof that there is a particle who's behavior is random), it would invalidate a branch of philosophy. Though that's really not what physicist focus on.

And you see the catch here is, science is not claiming these things exists, it will acknowledge that they might exist or they might not exist. However, if no concrete evidence points towards the existence of something, you can't say it exists and hope everyone in the world will accept that fact, we're challenging your ideas and concepts, and the reason we challenge them is that you will find a way, to make them universally recognizable, if you don't show any solid evidence, we won't believe you. While it's nice to be open minded, some of us like hard proof before dabbling in things.

I accept the fact that you believe in them, but some people have strange beliefs, so unfortunately that's not enough to make something universally acceptable, which is pretty much what this debate is about. Whether chakras have enough backing to be universally recognized.


WTF?

This thread is about hppd... if you go back and read, i was told to worry about my mind because i sometimes hear voices...

i then have proven that it is completely normal to perceive things like this with reference to hpnagogia, which is scientifically accepted...

as well as synaesthesia is, this things are real... the focus of the thread then shifted to some more esoteric concepts, but nobody claimed that chakras would be universally recognized, people only argued that they are not insane only because they believe in such concepts...
 
umm delusional much? Hppd is nothing to be proud of or in any way try to be happy or positive about. Ignoring it is the best solution and method, but don't encourage it because you haven't opened shit up pal. To me it sounds like you are trying to protect your beloved psych drugs. It's kind of the same with people finding a few studies saying mdma is probably not neurotoxic and then they base everything on that. When in fact there are hundreds of other research papers saying it is definitely neurotoxic, they are just choosing to believe what they want.
I was the same, and i misused it a little too much but NOTHING compared to some of these other people and i had to pay the longgg and dire consequences.
 
umm delusional much? Hppd is nothing to be proud of or in any way try to be happy or positive about. Ignoring it is the best solution and method, but don't encourage it because you haven't opened shit up pal. To me it sounds like you are trying to protect your beloved psych drugs. It's kind of the same with people finding a few studies saying mdma is probably not neurotoxic and then they base everything on that. When in fact there are hundreds of other research papers saying it is definitely neurotoxic, they are just choosing to believe what they want.
I was the same, and i misused it a little too much but NOTHING compared to some of these other people and i had to pay the longgg and dire consequences.



lol thanks for proving that i'm completely wasting my time... i could be talking to a wall of bricks...

I wish all of you good luck on your journey and where your beliefs will take you! :)

I'm out
 
If you accept that the subjective feeling of chakras is real, than you accept that chakras are real (for the persons who feel them) that's what placebo effect is about
I accept that some people think that chakras are real. But only believing in things doesn't make these things real. If I really believe in fairies, they won't appear in reality.

and to judge people who feel chakras as delusional is just plain ignorant, you can call them that once you have proven that chakras do not exist, but until then you will just have to accept that reality is always subjective and that some prefer to interpret certain feelings different from how you interpret them.
I meant, delusional = being mistaken.
And not all interpretations of reality are equally right. I already gave the example Intelligent falling.

i then have proven that it is completely normal to perceive things like this with reference to hpnagogia, which is scientifically accepted...
I agree with you that sometimes it is normal to perceive hallucinations. But sometimes it can be dangerous.

try this one
These questions are too ambigous again. What do you mean by "prove determinism". Prove that our universe is determenistic? I think that experiment Schrödinger's cat may actually disprove this.
 
umm delusional much? Hppd is nothing to be proud of or in any way try to be happy or positive about. Ignoring it is the best solution and method, but don't encourage it because you haven't opened shit up pal. To me it sounds like you are trying to protect your beloved psych drugs. It's kind of the same with people finding a few studies saying mdma is probably not neurotoxic and then they base everything on that. When in fact there are hundreds of other research papers saying it is definitely neurotoxic, they are just choosing to believe what they want.
I was the same, and i misused it a little too much but NOTHING compared to some of these other people and i had to pay the longgg and dire consequences.

no actually, i stopped taking drugs about 6 months ago, so no im not just desperately defending a drug habit and its consequences. Actually after i stopped and started getting more into spiritual practices like meditation, yoga and tie chi, my hppd got much, much stronger, which is one of the main reasons for my theory.

If it is just a problem of language, then "chakras" are no more than special points in our body. No more, there are no energy flowing through it.

dude...that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.




If it is just a problem of language, then "chakras" are no more than special points in our body. No more, there are no energy flowing through it.

dude...that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Another Einstein quote: "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses".
Whats your point? People change their minds as they become more aware of reality or less aware.

You're contradicting yourself. This is quote from wiki of what I(and other people) understand of "supernatural":
No, theyre not. As I've said before, clear divisions of natural verus 'super'natural dont exist. Its that semantics problem again. There is one unified reality with many apparent different manifestations to humans because of course as humans we are ignorant of much of reality.

OMG, hallucinations are just hallucinations

Just curious, have you ever even taken a psych before, it really doesn't sound like you have. What ones and how often, im just curious.

How can they be useful for us?
By fulfilling your potential as a complete, well rounded human being.

What secrests? "Dark matter" is just such matter that don't interact with our usual matter very much.
typical scientific hubris, not even willing to admit that some things science has discovered completely shatter the materialistic concepts.

I mean, anything cool that I would be able to do with "3rd eye" or any other "spiritual" concept.
Not that I expect you to really openly consider it, but heres the answer from us spiritual freak's point of view; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra about halfway down the page.

oh and could you explain that chart? As im sure you could guess, im not one for complex formulas or equations.
 
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You're not going to prove or explain something by yourself. If you continue in the same way, our discussion will likely end within next few posts.

dude...that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Why?

Whats your point? People change their minds as they become more aware of reality or less aware.
As someone above pointed to Einstein's quotes aren't very related to our discussion.
But I will reply anyway. Einstein said the sentence, that I quoted, years after he said the sentence you quoted. I am sure such a brilliant person became much more wise with age.

Just curious, have you ever even taken a psych before, it really doesn't sound like you have. What ones and how often, im just curious.
I am wondering, do you only read my words without your quote above them?
Let me explain what I meant. Hallucinations themselves cannot give your more information about external reality. (Also, there are more than five senses, but this doesn't matter much). If you see a nice cool pattern on the wall, it doesn't mean that this pattern was put by someone on this wall. This pattern can, of course, can represent something that inside you. For example, the structure of your visual cortex(I mentioned a very good article in the beginning of this thread).
More complex hallucinations are again just misperceivings of the reality, and although they may help you realise something about you, your conscious and subconscious.

As for your question, it is argumentum ad hominem. What if I don't answer it? ;)

By fulfilling your potential as a complete, well rounded human being.
So I can't do/make something cool with your chakras?
This statement is completely elitistic.

typical scientific hubris, not even willing to admit that some things science has discovered completely shatter the materialistic concepts.
Lol. What things and how?

No, theyre not. As I've said before, clear divisions of natural verus 'super'natural dont exist. Its that semantics problem again. There is one unified reality with many apparent different manifestations to humans because of course as humans we are ignorant of much of reality.
Something either is in our observable universe, or isn't. In the second case it is called supernatural.

oh and could you explain that chart? As im sure you could guess, im not one for complex formulas or equations.
What chart? Also, I am sure that you should explain your esoteric charts, not me.
 
"Hello brick-wall, how are you today?..."

8)

@Ganja God: I know what you mean about it getting stronger with meditation (and related practices). I found that meditation and other practices (which I won't go in to here for the sake of preventing distraction) has enabled certain unnoticed peculiarities to precipitate in to normal awareness in a holistic sense. The auditory field has become massively enhanced, quite permanently. Xorkoth gives a great account of how "the machines" of reality heard on DiPT are witnessed across the entire sensory array. As such, they're no longer elements of just a seperate sensory modality, but an enhanced 'field' of awareness. A couple of NDEs last year pretty much blew the doors off the hinges for me.
 
No, theyre not. As I've said before, clear divisions of natural verus 'super'natural dont exist. Its that semantics problem again. There is one unified reality with many apparent different manifestations to humans because of course as humans we are ignorant of much of reality.

What is this relativity bullshit that you speak of and why does it confuse so many people??

As someone above pointed to Einstein's quotes aren't very related to our discussion.
But I will reply anyway. Einstein said the sentence, that I quoted, years after he said the sentence you quoted. I am sure such a brilliant person became much more wise with age.

The word "God" is a joke for id's in their business suits to proclaim their mastery of the universe whilst only describing a further removed tale from our reality to cover up whatever their localized problem might be. I like the word "Double sided void-point" better!
 
What chart? Also, I am sure that you should explain your esoteric charts, not me.

the graph or whatever, you know what im referring to it was in your post, and i cannot possibly explain it,it is complete abstraction to me and im probably legally retarded with math anyway. And some of the things you say just dont make sense to me, not out of my own viewpoint, but just linguistically or how the words are logically fitting together. My question wasn't meant as an ad hominem, I seriously suspected that you might be someone who hadnt ever tripped, just looked into the psych forums out of curiosity and then jumped on the opportunity to berate someone's viewpoint that differed from your own. And what is it with your need to "do something cool" with chakras? What, you thought thought theyre postulated as ideas that claim they give you magical powers or make your dick bigger, what?

Alas, as its been said, were both running out of arguments that dont just make this a circular debate. It was an interesting thread while it lasted anyway.
 
The word "God" is a joke for id's in their business suits to proclaim their mastery of the universe whilst only describing a further removed tale from our reality to cover up whatever their localized problem might be. I like the word "Double sided void-point" better!

Holy fuck dude wrecked sooo hard haha
 
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