ganja god
Bluelighter
^ read Steppenwolf by Hesse, or something on Zen.
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My theory about hppd
- Thread starter ganja god
- Start date
IamMe90
Bluelighter
nice mumbo jumbo but its still nonsense.
^ Lol, nice answer. I wouldn't able to explain my thoughts in so short sentence 
^^
You are avoiding answering to my questions.
1) Can you prove existence of chakras or whatever else you talked about? How?
2) If not, it is just a feeling in your head. I have the feeling in my head that these specific "spiritual" things(chakra, 3rd eye, another dimension) don't exist. And my feeling is as strong as your.
Why do you try to convince people with point of view similar to mine that they are wrong?
Just answer these two questions. Can you do this?
^^
You are avoiding answering to my questions.
1) Can you prove existence of chakras or whatever else you talked about? How?
2) If not, it is just a feeling in your head. I have the feeling in my head that these specific "spiritual" things(chakra, 3rd eye, another dimension) don't exist. And my feeling is as strong as your.
Why do you try to convince people with point of view similar to mine that they are wrong?
Just answer these two questions.
Can you do this?
ganja god
Bluelighter
No, obviously I can't rip my chakras out of my body and stick them in front of you. If you really think theres nothing more to your experience than what you can perceive right in front of you and obvious then you are destined to a very unfulfillable experience of life. So no, I can't answer your first question, no one ever has been able to and no one ever will. And your second question isn't a question. I believe in chakras because when I meditate on them I can physically feel them and there are very profound effects when you start to get in touch with that dimension of your being. During meditation I have been suddenly moved to tears when I had before felt absolutely no urge to cry or any strong emotion, and then the next second I feel intense waves of energy pulsing through my body and all my hair stands up on end and I'm crying and don't know why. So to me it is very real. This of course means nothing to you as it is my experience that can only be conveyed incredibly inadequately through words. And seriously could you try to come up with a real argument with substance? Just calling something nonsense doesn't support your viewpoint at all. Your ad hominem and completely petty words are empty until you can make a half valid point.
Like I said, no I can't prove shit as you very well know. Theres a reason why this debate has never been settled, we both maintain viewpoints which can neither be proved or disproved.
And just for the record, I really don't want to sound preachy or condescending about spirituality. I am far from righteousness and in the end, though I think I'm right and your wrong, were both only human with human concepts and ultimate reality is probably very far from what either of us think.
Like I said, no I can't prove shit as you very well know. Theres a reason why this debate has never been settled, we both maintain viewpoints which can neither be proved or disproved.
And just for the record, I really don't want to sound preachy or condescending about spirituality. I am far from righteousness and in the end, though I think I'm right and your wrong, were both only human with human concepts and ultimate reality is probably very far from what either of us think.
nopipesdfw
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2009
- Messages
- 829
Hey, there is a big difference between information and feel, what I am rather sure I have experienced sounds rather retarded to anybody who has not, I think that's how perceptually based things often end up.
There are some situations where if I open my mouth I will sound crazier than a Christian, but I'm not here to lie about what I think I saw or felt to not sound like such!
RainbowWarrior
Bluelighter
^ Lol, nice answer. I wouldn't able to explain my thoughts in so short sentence
^^
You are avoiding answering to my questions.
1) Can you prove existence of chakras or whatever else you talked about? How?
2) If not, it is just a feeling in your head. I have the feeling in my head that these specific "spiritual" things(chakra, 3rd eye, another dimension) don't exist. And my feeling is as strong as your.
Why do you try to convince people with point of view similar to mine that they are wrong?
Just answer these two questions.
You think it's coincidence that most religions feature the concept of halos?
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(religious_iconography) )
seems to be more than just a subjective feel to me....
my own little history with chakras:
When i had my spiritual awakening with mushrooms about 8 years ago, i was starting to read a lot of esoteric literature. I was totally convinced to have found the truth...
Then i realised that most esoteric literature is just a way to make money from dumb people... so i dismissed everything about chakras etc as mumbo jumbo (like our young egocentered yedi above me calls it oh so eloquently), and was totally convinced to have found out the truth...
a good few years later i melted into the universe during my first lsd trip, ever since then i just can't deny that i have a third eye and that it had been blasted open by the force of the lsd, as of today i am totally convinced of the fact that everybody has this third eye
but it is important to understand that the concept of chakras is just a way interpreting reality! Just like every language always is a way of interpreting reality... only because your language doesn't feature this concept, doesn't mean that languages that do are less true or anything...
there is no true reality, reality is what you make of it! (bender knew it all along... black jack & hookers)
^ Certain religions are originated from one parent religion, so it is obvious that they have something in common. IIRC, another thing many religions have is flood myth, but it doesn't mean that this catastrophe really happened.
Anyway, I don't understand how halos relate to chakras. Please provide further explaination of this idea.
> but it is important to understand that the concept of chakras is just a way interpreting reality!
Not every interpretation makes sense. For example, think of gravity as of little fairies moving objects together. Or look to a similar concept - Intelligent fallen.
Anyway, I don't understand how halos relate to chakras. Please provide further explaination of this idea.
> but it is important to understand that the concept of chakras is just a way interpreting reality!
Not every interpretation makes sense. For example, think of gravity as of little fairies moving objects together. Or look to a similar concept - Intelligent fallen.
nopipesdfw
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2009
- Messages
- 829
Well hopefully it didn't take any scholars to make those connections.
Say guys, isn't it weird how whenever I read the Pentateuch I can find it in the Bible or the Torah? I should tell somebody!
RainbowWarrior
Bluelighter
*magic man done it*
:D
for some it doesn't make any sense that you can taste colour or see music... others think it's one of the most pleasant things in there life... who are you to tell them they perceive things wrong (either of the two groups)?
:D
for some it doesn't make any sense that you can taste colour or see music... others think it's one of the most pleasant things in there life... who are you to tell them they perceive things wrong (either of the two groups)?
Static Cloud
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2011
- Messages
- 26
My theory on hppd is that as soon as someone mentions it, someone will start thinking they have it.
Unless they try to explain their synaesthesia with chakras and third eyes, I won't tell them that they perceive things wrong. Synaesthesia is amazing phenomenon, which has something to do with how brain process information.
Again, I never denied existence of feeling of chakras, I denied chakras existence. It is two different thing. You can create a lot of different concepts in your head, but some of them just don't reflect reality in any way.
Survived Abortion
Bluelighter
That's very bold, considering that this is a phenomenon which I - along with many other members of the human race - are aware of experiencing regularly. How can you behold the audacity to make such a flimsy statement?
You gave two sweeping statements thusly:
- "Astral projection doesn't exist"
- "And neither does chakra"
There is nothing super-natural about spiritual energy. It is all completely natural, I assure you. You can find this out for yourself.
Why the bigotry? Many people who hear voices are completely comfortable with it, as they realize that what they are hearing is an extension of their mind usually unseen. The super-conscious, or universal mind that connects everything, which is then received and filtered by the ego.
The problem comes when people such as yourself are constantly telling those who are able to perceive beyond the five senses that what they are experiencing is wrong. Imagine being an open receiver to far more information than your mind is used to accepting as reality, and other people telling you that you're crazy and delusional, or that it's the work of the devil. That is why people crack and end up in hospitals, on mind-destroying anti-psychotics.
It's amazing that human beings in this century will still want to see an external, physical, economical use for something before they will accept it as valid. Anything that cannot be raped, pillaged, plundered, or sold is regarded as either pointless or non-existant.
Allium, can you conceive that there may be things beyond your hunter-gatherer level of awareness which cannot be exploited as a global commodity (due to their aspect beyond the immediate flesh) but which may be immensley useful to the individual, and thus the universe at large? A spiritual lifestyle opens up many vistas of understanding and being which are not compatible with the social assembly-line that most people are indoctrinated into. Yes, there are useful 'things' to learn for all, but they cannot be brought back and spoon-fed to you like a baby.
8)
Yes, I can answer those two questions.IamMe90 said:
^ Lol, nice answer. I wouldn't able to explain my thoughts in so short sentence
^^
You are avoiding answering to my questions.
1) Can you prove existence of chakras or whatever else you talked about? How?
2) If not, it is just a feeling in your head. I have the feeling in my head that these specific "spiritual" things(chakra, 3rd eye, another dimension) don't exist. And my feeling is as strong as your.
Why do you try to convince people with point of view similar to mine that they are wrong?
Just answer these two questions.
- No, I cannot prove the existence of chakras and astral projection. Nobody can. It is not up to us to prove anything to you.
The burden of proof is upon the skeptics, since they cannot declare with any margin of reason that something they are not aware of does not exist. In contrast, those who have felt and do experience phenomenon that cannot be brought in to the material domain as a relic and displayed before the five senses of others can know, and therefore reasonably proclaim it as their own truth. If people want to see the evidence for this, it is then up to them to go and find it themselves.
- I don't try to convince people with a similar point of view to yours that you are wrong, but I might respond to blanket statements, general ignorance, and untruths like those quoted above. And I will try and illuminate things by sharing my felt experience, that which I know to be. This is because I'm aware that none of us have the answer to everything (we know and remember very little in our normal compartmentalized state of conciousness), but we do all have something to share.
To the skeptics, you should be skeptical of everything you have ever been taught, and that you have based your ideas upon to be skeptical of those things which you havn't experienced yet. How do you know that everything you think you know based on what you have learned from external sources is true? Because the television said so?
There is a pervading current of ridicule that is set against the spiritually minded by those cut and dry materialists. Why? Because the thought is that spiritual people only believe, where as scientific materialists know. This is obviously backwards, since the scientific method does not provide knowledge of anything beyond mere speculation about observed results. Spirtual experience, on the other hand is pure knowing, pure in-tuition.
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Static Cloud
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2011
- Messages
- 26
Not to be a smartass, but I'm pretty sure the burden of proof is on you, chakras are not accepted in the mainstream scientific community, so most scientists will disagree with the fact that they exist.
As for the statement regarding being things about skeptical about things that weren't experienced, well first of all, personal experience is just that, personal, it's by no definition proof of it's existence. If you want something to be accepted as true and that it does exist, I suggest you read up on how the concept of 'scientific theory' works. That's how things work, it's the only thing we can rely on. If it can't be measured, it's not there, mostly because of how perception works, while some might claim their chakras are in certain positions, other people might claim they're located in different spaces, as there is no effective way to measure it, we can never be sure about their existence.
I will however agree, that chakras might represent certain parts of the human body (e.g. hormonal glands), which can be responsible for a lot of things from our health to our mood, however, in this case, it's mostly semantics.
As for the statement regarding being things about skeptical about things that weren't experienced, well first of all, personal experience is just that, personal, it's by no definition proof of it's existence. If you want something to be accepted as true and that it does exist, I suggest you read up on how the concept of 'scientific theory' works. That's how things work, it's the only thing we can rely on. If it can't be measured, it's not there, mostly because of how perception works, while some might claim their chakras are in certain positions, other people might claim they're located in different spaces, as there is no effective way to measure it, we can never be sure about their existence.
I will however agree, that chakras might represent certain parts of the human body (e.g. hormonal glands), which can be responsible for a lot of things from our health to our mood, however, in this case, it's mostly semantics.
ganja god
Bluelighter
^ your right about it being semantics, and largely a problem of language. Though if you really want some sort of empirical evidence consider the fact that there are significantly more nerve endings in the said location of each chakra. And the scientific method is wanting in several aspects. I don't regard it as any more valid than mainstream Christianity or something the government tells people. But the fact remains that science is increasingly supporting theories you regard as outlandish.
Some Einstein quotes to consider;
A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)
I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)
Some Einstein quotes to consider;
A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)
I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)
skinwalker
Bluelighter
Good response survivedabortion, nicely written! I think we would be better off butting our heads against a brick wall than trying to argue our point.
I am totally with you on the burden of proof are on those who wish to seek this information.......no use trying to argue close mindedness.
IMO Science is slllllooooooowwwlllyyyyyyy uncovering these secrets. The whole field of quamtum mechanics and theoretical physics is doing just so.....the whole concept of "dark matter" and "parallel dimensions" blows my mind.
the theory of conservation of energy states "energy cannot be created nor destroyed"........so where does this life energy come from when we are born? Where does this energy go when you die? Has to go somewhere.......hmmm....food for thought
I am totally with you on the burden of proof are on those who wish to seek this information.......no use trying to argue close mindedness.
IMO Science is slllllooooooowwwlllyyyyyyy uncovering these secrets. The whole field of quamtum mechanics and theoretical physics is doing just so.....the whole concept of "dark matter" and "parallel dimensions" blows my mind.
the theory of conservation of energy states "energy cannot be created nor destroyed"........so where does this life energy come from when we are born? Where does this energy go when you die? Has to go somewhere.......hmmm....food for thought
This has been a very interesting discussion to me, who is an atheist, but also believes that there is more to our existence than we can perceive and explain. I am a skeptic who questions both the message of religion and science, epistemologically. Veering too sharply in one direction, science or the "spiritual" (I use this loosely, with no metaphysical connotation of "spirit"), puts me off. One viewpoint seems to be too wanting of reason, the other too self-assured of its own ability to perceive.
The difference between these viewpoints is sometimes just a mere matter of semantics.
It is undeniable that the psychoactive effects of hallucinogens falls within the domain of science, but it seems a little short-sighted to say that all of that activity ends there. Why is it so difficult to see this as two interwoven frameworks? There is always a duality between the perceived and the actual, with the "actual" given form by language (mathematical or linguistic). But then, what is the use of one without the other?
It was my use of hallucinogens that made me realize that I am not as rational that I thought I was, that my beliefs on the nature of reality cannot be explained by empiricism. This was a very unsettling thing to me, because I wondered, if I can believe in things that cannot be explained, why is that any different than believing in some sort of divine being? I came to the conclusion that religious doctrine/history/politics is very much an anathema to my life philosophies, but that I could reconcile with the possibility of what people choose to refer to as god is just the unknown that lies outside of normal perception. So if "god" is just something that is beyond our realm of understanding, then yes, I believe in it, but I do not ascribe any anthropomorphic attributes to it.
The difference between these viewpoints is sometimes just a mere matter of semantics.
It is undeniable that the psychoactive effects of hallucinogens falls within the domain of science, but it seems a little short-sighted to say that all of that activity ends there. Why is it so difficult to see this as two interwoven frameworks? There is always a duality between the perceived and the actual, with the "actual" given form by language (mathematical or linguistic). But then, what is the use of one without the other?
It was my use of hallucinogens that made me realize that I am not as rational that I thought I was, that my beliefs on the nature of reality cannot be explained by empiricism. This was a very unsettling thing to me, because I wondered, if I can believe in things that cannot be explained, why is that any different than believing in some sort of divine being? I came to the conclusion that religious doctrine/history/politics is very much an anathema to my life philosophies, but that I could reconcile with the possibility of what people choose to refer to as god is just the unknown that lies outside of normal perception. So if "god" is just something that is beyond our realm of understanding, then yes, I believe in it, but I do not ascribe any anthropomorphic attributes to it.
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IamMe90
Bluelighter
This post actually disgusts me. This is the most evasive and crappy response I've seen in a long time, filled with strawmen fallacies and flat out mistakes.
I'll write up more of a long winded post when I'm not on a meph crash, but I will address the absolutely outlandish statement that the burden of proof is on the skeptic. The burden of proof always rests upon the affirmative who wishes to assert some fact about reality - this is because an affirmative assertion is much more substantive than a negative assertion. The truly learned skeptics understand this, too, that their assertions are not truly as "significant" as the true affirmative assertions, which is why it is much easier to doubt the existence of something rather than to affirm it.
well, sorry, but if you're honestly equating the legitimacy of Christianity with that of scientific theory, then you're either mentally disabled or just plain stubborn in an attempt to shield your precious chakras. If you absolutely need me to explain why this is so retarded, by all means, I will. Because it is extremely retarded.
ganja god said:
Thanks for that distraction but it really doesn't have much to do with what's at hand. no one is denying that there are certain concepts that are simply inconceivable by mankind, even through science, but if that's the case then you really shouldn't posit the existence of chakras since by Einstein's quote, you can't know anything significant about, or "penetrate" the concept of chakras or astral projection.
also really not related to chakras at all in any sort of logical sense so i'm going to regard this as the smut that it is
ganja god
Bluelighter
^ this thread is not about chakras, They're just an example. I understand that science provides us with much more useful things than Christianity and that we owe our civilization to it, but when it comes to things so theoretical and philosophical it falls very short. God damn, dude no need to get so butt hurt, I can tell your crashing. Maybe all of us in this thread need to smoke a bowl, chill the fuck out and remember that just because someone views things radically differently than yourself does not mean they deserve your scorn. You sound like a little kid who didn't get his juice box today because he was naughty.
RainbowWarrior
Bluelighter
you want empirical proof for metaphysical concepts?
can you proof love?
oh you can't, so surely it doesn't exist... must be a lonely life without love :D
have fun with your meph comedown... you earned it lol
can you proof love?
oh you can't, so surely it doesn't exist... must be a lonely life without love :D
have fun with your meph comedown... you earned it lol
nearjat
Bluelighter
Wow..
One of the most important quotes I've ever heard went something like "Being able to entertain an idea without fully adopting it shows great wisdom."
Some of you guys need to take an actual college philosophy class and learn to discuss these things a little more civilly and objectively.
One of the most important quotes I've ever heard went something like "Being able to entertain an idea without fully adopting it shows great wisdom."
Some of you guys need to take an actual college philosophy class and learn to discuss these things a little more civilly and objectively.