Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[IndustrialStrength]

@ Need Some Help.

Glad to see you also benefit from this thread.
I personally am not to concerned atm about jumping on & off.
I get my sub's on the street so it's not like I'm in any real maintenance program.
I mostly regret jumping off because of the up's & down's.
I have less problems with mood swings & other issues if I just stick to the sub's daily.
But as I stated in my NSFW & such with my friend & a few other things it's just to much to deal with without full agonists.
As I said I experience bad physical effects from stress & as such decided full agonist's where a lesser evil than the stress effects.

I'm sorry to hear that you also experience the muscle aches.
I find that after a few days on sub they go away but every time I switch off & back on they come back for a few days.
Which like I said is odd for me as muscle aches are not normally a large component of my w/d's.

I hope you do change your thought pattern if your serious about getting off full agonist's your better off not doing them even on occasion.
As I'm not quite set on that route I have more leeway I guess.
With some chronic pain issues & such I haven't made a mental decision to go off entirely.
Thus the sub & the jumping back & forth.
The sub's seem to do a halfway decent job with the pain, well not great but bearable.

The only way I might regret my choices is if I decide to bang anything I might acquire.
I really don't feel comfortable doing so without a micron & I've explained my logic on them in prior posts.
Though at this point I'm pretty sure I'll just end up getting them regardless.
If it wasn't for the cost factor I wouldn't even be considering IV usage until I get them.
It's hard not to though considering the terrible hygiene my friends have & there lack of problems from it.
I figure with my more sterile practices it can't be that bad...
But then my good ole anxiety kicks in & goes over the million & 1 risks involved.
Can't seem to win on this one.

Either way don't be jealous as to be honest I'd rather just stay on the sub & not have to deal with being half sick for a day or 2 to switch back on.
I'd rather just stay stable on the sub but it just doesn't seem feasible atm.
With dealing with my sad friend & friends coming by & shooting up in front of me constantly it's hard to do.
Maybe if I had some M-Amp to mix with some benzo's on top of my sub's I could pull it off but I'm out of amps.
For me the closest to full agonist's or feeling right I can get is by throwing M-Amp & benzo's on top of my sub's.
I'm sure it also doesn't help that even when I'm on sub's I'm still helping friends out with hook's & such.
Probably "triggering" myself as they say but as I stated above I end up feeling bad if I don't help people out.

Regardless I just wanted to respond as the last thing I want to do is make anyone jealous or question there maintenance.
Our situations are likely quite different & what works for me might not work for you.
I hope that maintenance works for you & that you continue to do well with it.
Don't ever let anyone else's experiences make you question your convictions.

As you can probably tell I'm much better at helping others than helping myself but I think I already mentioned that. 8)

Anyways once again I'm out but I had to reply & wish you the best of luck with your maintenance.

Just curious though why the huge dose increase?
Also what was the increase to & from?
I've never really tried high doses as I've never really heard anything to beneficial regarding going higher.
Hell I think the most I've done at a time is 1mg maybe 1.5mg.
I've always been very conservative with sub's.

Seeing as this is answering some other poster's & such I won't NSFW it this time.
At least I try to spread out my wall's of text into readable sections.

 

[SececaRD]

Ive got a question for you sub experts.

When you first were coming off heroin and you took that first dose of Sub, how long did it take before you felt normal again?? Was it within hours or did it take days? How many MGS would you suggest taking for that first dose??

 

[SubDude]

It was actually in my neighborhood.

I am in less pain today, and have a new splint on it.

I got new Xrays; I was in so much pain. It was more psychologically horrifying than anything else. My arm looks horrible.

Hang in there pal.. keep the splint and/or partial cast on as much as possible to avoid visual and quicken heal. Hope it gets better soon. I also broke arm.. but as 12 yr old. The trauma's gotta be much worse as adult.

You said there was initial numbness... Found this... Fractures that are associated with nerve damage or numbness in the hand

http://firstaid.webmd.com/broken-arm-treatment

Keep us posted on recovery. Mend quickly!!

=================

On a personal note... wanted to mention I'm tapering from .50mg to .33mg using "liquid method". This time I was on .50mg for about 6wks. Not sure where it will lead??

 

[Mr. Squiggle!]

El Capitan Heroin, what shit they got you on brother? Me too, I suffer from a fractured wrist and 2 fingers and the pain is immense!!!

 

[lasthurrah19]

Ive got a question for you sub experts.

When you first were coming off heroin and you took that first dose of Sub, how long did it take before you felt normal again?? Was it within hours or did it take days? How many MGS would you suggest taking for that first dose??

For me it was <an hour, and I took 16mgs at a doctor's office, but I'm positive less would have worked fine (didn't know better at the time). Also, I was high as hell. This was with a 150mg a day oxy habit, sometimes more.

And Captain.Heroin, I hope you feel better soon.

 

[DeLee]

Hi all, I'm thinking of doing the kick, so which is the best option?

BUPRENORPHINE
Tablet (sublingual) 8 mg (as hydrochloride)

BUPRENORPHINE with NALOXONE
Tablet (sublingual) 8 mg (as hydrochloride)-2 mg (as hydrochloride)

METHADONE HYDROCHLORIDE
Oral liquid 25 mg per 5 mL, 200 mL

For starters the most part of opioid addicts manage with Buprenorphine rather than Methadone. And thats the truth even if some people dearly want that methadone.

Im on the Bupe + naloxone (Suboxone) and im praying it'll keep on working.
I have also had just Bupe tabs = Subutex and I can tell you that the difference between Suboxone and Subutex is that Suboxone tends to make you a little more tired than Subutex. Thats my personal opinion of them both.

Another question
You guys who are on Bupe maintenance - do you experience pretty nasty sweating from the Bupe?

Im on 16mg/day and it just takes me to walk a short distance outdoors and then when i come indoors it takes 3-4mins and i start to sweat like no tomorow for a good 15min.
It is getting pretty anoying, if you also experience this do you have any ideas to make it less of a problem ?

 

[ss2brandon]

haden - I will review what you posted and will likely integrate it into the intro.



I really like it. For the first year I was going through the acute WD's and then PAWS. After that, I began to have my tolerance to endorphins lowered, and eventually feel more like my old self.

Now, I stay on buprenorphine for a variety of reasons, but strictly in the sense of ORT maintenance, it keeps me in a good place w/o heroin, and eliminates cravings.

Getting over cravings is mental/psychological too, but the ORT helps keep me there.

Thanks Captain H. Always helpful and informative and you're never one to judge. Kudos in my book. The reason i ask is that oxycodone, fentanyl, oxymorph, dilaudid, and every opiate or rather opioid i've used (don't even suggest H, because i'm not going down that road) is no longer giving that high that i long for. most of the time i just pass out from potentiating with muscle relaxers or diphendyr. i find myself just not wanting to hurt. I'm scared of suboxone/subutex road too b/c i had a horrible, horrible detox from methadone before. i don't want to become addicted to suboxone but its a drug that i take as little as possible b/c it provides relief but no substantial high. ya there's that weird feeling, but no blanket warmth. so i guess i need maintenance again. i've tried CT several times and everytime i break down around the 7-10 day due to insomnia. i literally don't sleep at all during this time and i break down. literally crying for no god damn reason. skin feels like its burning and freezing at the same time. i have a handful of suboxone. maybe i should stabilize and then do a fast taper? then again i've been using 100mcg to potentiate my opes when i don't have quite enough. i believe i've destroyed bupes ability to control my cravings. how can i get bupe to work again. seriously whoever coined the term SBB (suboxone boredome blues) hit it dead on the head. sorry for ranting and raving but i just want to be off of this shit already.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

My hat off to you, sir, for dealing with this opiate-free. I'm very accident-prone and have broken many a bone over the years, and I don't know what it'd be like without some form of full agonist to numb the pain. Hope you heal quickly.

Thank you. It has easily been the worst pain I have ever felt. It has also been traumatizing to me. I cannot wait to not be completely fucking useless again.

Captain H. i hope your new splint suits you,

Thank you; it is a lot more comfortable than it was for the last week.

Ive got a question for you sub experts.

When you first were coming off heroin and you took that first dose of Sub, how long did it take before you felt normal again?? Was it within hours or did it take days? How many MGS would you suggest taking for that first dose??

If by normal you mean not in severe withdrawal, it took 20 minutes.

If by normal you mean 100% recovered, then it would vary on the individual. Some people may only need a week taper, others may need years of maintenance.

I would use 2mg to 4mg (depending on how heavy the habit was), then I would take the same dosage again within 1 hour if you aren't feeling at least 50% reduction of WD symptoms.

Hang in there pal.. keep the splint and/or partial cast on as much as possible to avoid visual and quicken heal. Hope it gets better soon. I also broke arm.. but as 12 yr old. The trauma's gotta be much worse as adult.

I broke my clavicle when I was about 5 years old, and I also green-fractured my arm (same arm but much further down) when I was 12.

You said there was initial numbness... Found this... Fractures that are associated with nerve damage or numbness in the hand

http://firstaid.webmd.com/broken-arm-treatment

Keep us posted on recovery. Mend quickly!!

=================

On a personal note... wanted to mention I'm tapering from .50mg to .33mg using "liquid method". This time I was on .50mg for about 6wks. Not sure where it will lead??

Thanks man! I will do that.

Good luck with your step down to 0.33mg!

 

[Wesley_pipes_27]

You guys who are on Bupe maintenance - do you experience pretty nasty sweating from the Bupe?

I definitely have this issue with bupe. In fact it led to several fights between my girlfriend and myself. I would crank the air conditioning when I felt hot (all the time) and she would be freezing. I was convinced that it was just her. As a kid I remember that my Mom always thought it was cold so I tended to believe it was just because she was a female. Anyway, one day I bought one of those indoor thermometers and started to keep an eye on it. I was surprised by what I saw: 71 degrees and I was sweating bullets! I find that it's the worse at about 30 min after I dose (5min or less if Iv'd) and slowly over a period of hours gets better. I often have fairly bad night sweats too.

I have not been able to find any cure for this, and all I can really recommend is pretty much common sense: Bathe/shower regularly (@ least daily), use a good antiperspirant (I like Right Guard Extreme, works great), dress accordingly, etc.

As far as my girlfriend and the air conditioner/heater goes, we've just had to compromise. As I'm typing this, for instance, I'm dressed only in a pair of shorts and my gf has on long pajamas, a t-shirt, and a hoodie sweatshirt! Therometer says it's 74 degrees in here: she thinks it's cold and I'm feeling pretty comfortable. Go figure.

Although I'm sure our difference in body fat plays a small part (she's 5'2" 90lbs & I'm 6'0" 190lbs), it wasn't until I started using bupe that this became an issue. Oh-well, better this than being hooked on Oxy/dope/etc. IMHO.

WP

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I definitely have this issue with bupe. In fact it led to several fights between my girlfriend and myself. I would crank the air conditioning when I felt hot (all the time) and she would be freezing. I was convinced that it was just her. As a kid I remember that my Mom always thought it was cold so I tended to believe it was just because she was a female. Anyway, one day I bought one of those indoor thermometers and started to keep an eye on it. I was surprised by what I saw: 71 degrees and I was sweating bullets! I find that it's the worse at about 30 min after I dose (5min or less if Iv'd) and slowly over a period of hours gets better. I often have fairly bad night sweats too.

I have not been able to find any cure for this, and all I can really recommend is pretty much common sense: Bathe/shower regularly (@ least daily), use a good antiperspirant (I like Right Guard Extreme, works great), dress accordingly, etc.

As far as my girlfriend and the air conditioner/heater goes, we've just have to compromise. As I'm typing this, for instance, I'm dressed only in a pair of shorts and my gf has on long pajamas, a t-shirt, and a hoodie sweatshirt! Therometer says it's 74 degrees in here: she thinks it's cold and I'm feeling pretty comfortable. Go figure.

Although I'm sure our difference in body fat plays a small part (she's 5'2" 90lbs & I'm 6'0" 190lbs), it wasn't until I started using bupe that this became an issue. Oh-well, better this than being hooked on Oxy/dope/etc. IMHO.

WP

You could try a smaller dose. Have you tried this?

 

[DeLee]

Thanks for the reply Wesley_pipes_27
Yes all what you wrote is true for me too. Sometimes I get terrible night sweats to the point that i wake up all wet.

The most anoying part is right after ive got my dose of 16mg and then head out to the stores, meetings or to get something to eat and 5mins after ive entered the building and (hotter temperature) it starts.

Im 5'77" and 187lbs

I guess we gotta live with it, if there was any medication for this i would definently take it up with my doc.
Lowering my dose like Captain.H wrote is a good idea but in my case I can't, it wont hold me from getting dopesick and jonsing.

And that aircondition thing, I have the same situation. Its winter here in Sweden right now and I can sleep with the window open a bit and everyone else who ain't on Bupe or any opioid tells me its real cold.

 

[catcalls]

I'm the exact opposite. I think because my dose is lower than yours, I get terribly cold all the time. I need the heating on all the time. Also, when I double dosed, I felt really warm. So, perhaps your dose is waaay too high? Especially if its making you hot.

 

[Been&Done]

Thanks for the reply Wesley_pipes_27
Yes all what you wrote is true for me too. Sometimes I get terrible night sweats to the point that i wake up all wet.

The most anoying part is right after ive got my dose of 16mg and then head out to the stores, meetings or to get something to eat and 5mins after ive entered the building and (hotter temperature) it starts.

Im 5'77" and 187lbs

I guess we gotta live with it, if there was any medication for this i would definently take it up with my doc.
Lowering my dose like Captain.H wrote is a good idea but in my case I can't, it wont hold me from getting dopesick and jonsing.

And that aircondition thing, I have the same situation. Its winter here in Sweden right now and I can sleep with the window open a bit and everyone else who ain't on Bupe or any opioid tells me its real cold.

16 mg is a lot.

I definitely have this issue with bupe. In fact it led to several fights between my girlfriend and myself. I would crank the air conditioning when I felt hot (all the time) and she would be freezing. I was convinced that it was just her. As a kid I remember that my Mom always thought it was cold so I tended to believe it was just because she was a female. Anyway, one day I bought one of those indoor thermometers and started to keep an eye on it. I was surprised by what I saw: 71 degrees and I was sweating bullets! I find that it's the worse at about 30 min after I dose (5min or less if Iv'd) and slowly over a period of hours gets better. I often have fairly bad night sweats too.

I have not been able to find any cure for this, and all I can really recommend is pretty much common sense: Bathe/shower regularly (@ least daily), use a good antiperspirant (I like Right Guard Extreme, works great), dress accordingly, etc.

As far as my girlfriend and the air conditioner/heater goes, we've just had to compromise. As I'm typing this, for instance, I'm dressed only in a pair of shorts and my gf has on long pajamas, a t-shirt, and a hoodie sweatshirt! Therometer says it's 74 degrees in here: she thinks it's cold and I'm feeling pretty comfortable. Go figure.

Although I'm sure our difference in body fat plays a small part (she's 5'2" 90lbs & I'm 6'0" 190lbs), it wasn't until I started using bupe that this became an issue. Oh-well, better this than being hooked on Oxy/dope/etc. IMHO.

WP

Exactly same with gf, it's snowing outside and i leave the window open to ventilate the room and I'm always in shorts n T inside, while she's asking me for a blanket!
I also sometimes wake with a sweaty t-shirt, especially after switching from Subutex to Suboxone. It also happens when i up my dose!

Wondering what's going on?

 

[SubDude]

I use to sweat bullets with methadone maint and did a bit when I first started subs at 12mg. Since tapering down... I tend to be cold in the morning and hot a night.... but not sweating warm. I keep temp at about 72. I wear hoodie/sweats in morn and t-shirt/shorts at night?? Go figure.

 

[LittlebyLittle]

i've been free of full agonists for 14 days now. i'm down to about 1-2mg bupe per day. i'm in pain when i'm on 1mg but it's not all that bad. i thought the depression was gonna be worse honestly. but, for what it's worth, i think this could easily turn into a success story at least for a while substantial enough to get things right in my life.

Next step: get off subs...

 

[stray cat]

^ good for you! you should be able to taper a little more and stop relatively painlessly i think. i've read other places that somewhere around 3 weeks is about when u want to be completely done if you're just trying to use bupe as a quick taper off of your doc- much longer than that u can start getting into trouble w/ the sub w/ds (i know it's all opiate w/ds, but as i'm sure u've read or experienced, sub w/drawal can be pretty long and drawn out if u use it for lengthier periods of time). assuming you are indeed attempting to use bupe as a quick taper off and not for maintenance, then i think you are on the right track. keep up the good work and let us know how it works out

 

[jnicolas1980]

Quick question: I just came back from my sub doctor's with some trazodone (50 mg) and hydroxyzine (50 mg) and baclofen (10 mg). I tried clonidine and Remeron last week, but they didn't help me sleep. If anyone can share their experience with trazodone with hydroxyzine, that'd be cool. (Note: I'm on about 1 mg of subs at the moment, trying to get lower.)

 

[lasthurrah19]

Quick question: I just came back from my sub doctor's with some trazodone (50 mg) and hydroxyzine (50 mg) and baclofen (10 mg). I tried clonidine and Remeron last week, but they didn't help me sleep. If anyone can share their experience with trazodone with hydroxyzine, that'd be cool. (Note: I'm on about 1 mg of subs at the moment, trying to get lower.)

I have tried four of those drugs (-baclofen), unfortunately IME they are not great for sleep, even combined. However, hydroxyzine (150mgs of it for me) worked the first couple times I took it, trazodone worked longer but in the end I was taking 400mg. I'd call him if you don't get some relief soon; comfort meds can make or break a detox and you're avoiding benzos, which is great.

I take Remeron currently, it doesn't help me sleep, and it never did, but it has helped my regular AD work better. YMMV

 

[jnicolas1980]

I have tried four of those drugs (-baclofen), unfortunately IME they are not great for sleep, even combined. However, hydroxyzine (150mgs of it for me) worked the first couple times I took it, trazodone worked longer but in the end I was taking 400mg. I'd call him if you don't get some relief soon; comfort meds can make or break a detox and you're avoiding benzos, which is great.

I take Remeron currently, it doesn't help me sleep, and it never did, but it has helped my regular AD work better. YMMV

Thanks for the quick reply. Yeah, I'm sort of expecting it to work OK at first then not at all. That's the way everything has been for me, as far as sleep aids, and that includes benzos, gabapentin, Ambien, Lunesta, Seroquel, etc.

It sucks because when I was on roxycodone I slept beautifully after having been a lifelong insomniac. I can probably get used to having an hour or two of sleep (like before), but right now it's the RLS that's unbearable.

 

[jnicolas1980]

I have tried four of those drugs (-baclofen), unfortunately IME they are not great for sleep, even combined. However, hydroxyzine (150mgs of it for me) worked the first couple times I took it, trazodone worked longer but in the end I was taking 400mg. I'd call him if you don't get some relief soon; comfort meds can make or break a detox and you're avoiding benzos, which is great.

I take Remeron currently, it doesn't help me sleep, and it never did, but it has helped my regular AD work better. YMMV

Oh, and I see you're also from South Florida (land of the "pill mills," as everyone so annoyingly puts it).