need some help
Greenlighter
@catcalls, Are you feeling better? Hope everyone has a decent day.... Thanks for all the info Captain!
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022
- Thread starter Thekid331
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catcalls
Bluelighter
Hi NSH,
Today was just fine in the morning. I even collected at 8:30am. Instead of taking my pills at 8am. It is weird, like, when I had a 4 day supply, some days I felt like I needed to take half my dose at 6am!
Luckily, I broke that habit on day 4 leading up to collecting after 8am again
Thanks for the well wishes.
Catcalls
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
No problem, and best of luck with quitting. I know this information could encourage you to relapse, but instead I want you to think about how far you have gotten, just because you thought it would be a waste. All in all it normally is IMO because it costs too much, you do it, you may or may not get your desired high. Then, you think about other things you could have done with that money, especially if you spent a lot of $ trying to catch a buzz and never get exactly what you wanted.
This is why I gave up using dope; it just wasn't worth it to me anymore.
Also if I can live through severe pain without using painkillers, so can you!
bwanajzj
Bluelighter
I am on day 10 of my bupe substitution treatment for heroin addiction.
I have found bupe to be very effective in eliminating the physical withdrawals(although day 1 and 2 were still RLS hell!), while it only partially takes care of the psychological cravings. However, I trust this will pass with time, as I break my addiction and personality down, and cure myself of the bad habits, all the while my brains neurology slowly returning to 'normal'.
I find that bupe makes it very hard to concentrate on academic affairs. I am writing a bachelor's report right now, which is due the 17th of January, totalling around 50 pages, and my intelligence feels really constrained by the effects of bupe. It seems like it has an immense effect on the short-term memory too. I took a look at some notes that I made the other day, and it might as well have been someone with ADHD who wrote them... this would never have been the case with dope. Dope made me a master at writing reports... This is also an idea that I need to part with if I am to cure myself of opiate addiction. Anyways, just wondering if anyone else feels that bupe has a negative effect on their ability to concentrate, and produce academic results.
While at the sub clinic, I spoke to one of the assistants, responsible for some group activities. He put some things into perspective, which I would like to share:
The important factors in everyday life, which help maintain a healthy mind and spirit are:
Love, family, friends, hobbies, excercise, etc. These are things that naturally produce a feeling of well-being, release dopamine and endorphines etc... These will be termed as the primaries.
Now the secondaries are:
Parties, intoxicants, etc.
If one is a user of drugs(including alcohol and tobacco), the drug serves to spice up the primaries on certain occasions.
If one is an abuser of drugs, the drug serves to spice up many and most occasions, and the primaries will start to be exchanged with secondaries on a temporary basis.
If one is an addict, the primaries become secondaries, and the secondaries become primaries, which leads to isolation from friends and family, and ultimately depression, arguments with once loved ones become more common, and one becomes blind to the true pleasures in life, thinking that life is only pleasurable when intoxicated by the DOC.
There are different levels of loss too. Some people need to loose all friends, family, work, education, etc. to their DOC, before becoming depressed about their addiction. These people have a very low emotional breakpoint.
Others who have a high emotional breakpoint, come to terms with their addiction before losing all of the aforementioned. Luckily I am one of those people... at least so far
The important thing is to make sure that you always have your primaries in check, in order to be truly happy, and realise that the use of drugs to spice things up is an illusion that tricks your body and mind for good. Part with, or at least acknowledge this illusion, and you'll be fine, and maintain a healthy balance between primaries and secondaries, and you won't risk becoming addicted, so long as you know what is real and what is an induced impression by your DOC.
And then I have also realised that you shouldn't dose bupe based on desired effect, but simply maintain a dosing schedule without relying on your desire for intoxication. By doing this, you maintain the medical value of bupe, rather than it just becoming another recreative opiate... So even if you feel shitty at certain times, wait it out until your next dosage appointment. Plus this makes sure that the bupe levels in the blood are somewhat stable. Deviation will only fuck you up more, just remember how fast tolerance to dope comes around, because you want to take that extra line, shot, smoke, etc., to feel a little better.
Anyways, just a little input from my side of life... Hope everyone had a wonderful new years celebration!
I have found bupe to be very effective in eliminating the physical withdrawals(although day 1 and 2 were still RLS hell!), while it only partially takes care of the psychological cravings. However, I trust this will pass with time, as I break my addiction and personality down, and cure myself of the bad habits, all the while my brains neurology slowly returning to 'normal'.
I find that bupe makes it very hard to concentrate on academic affairs. I am writing a bachelor's report right now, which is due the 17th of January, totalling around 50 pages, and my intelligence feels really constrained by the effects of bupe. It seems like it has an immense effect on the short-term memory too. I took a look at some notes that I made the other day, and it might as well have been someone with ADHD who wrote them... this would never have been the case with dope. Dope made me a master at writing reports... This is also an idea that I need to part with if I am to cure myself of opiate addiction. Anyways, just wondering if anyone else feels that bupe has a negative effect on their ability to concentrate, and produce academic results.
While at the sub clinic, I spoke to one of the assistants, responsible for some group activities. He put some things into perspective, which I would like to share:
The important factors in everyday life, which help maintain a healthy mind and spirit are:
Love, family, friends, hobbies, excercise, etc. These are things that naturally produce a feeling of well-being, release dopamine and endorphines etc... These will be termed as the primaries.
Now the secondaries are:
Parties, intoxicants, etc.
If one is a user of drugs(including alcohol and tobacco), the drug serves to spice up the primaries on certain occasions.
If one is an abuser of drugs, the drug serves to spice up many and most occasions, and the primaries will start to be exchanged with secondaries on a temporary basis.
If one is an addict, the primaries become secondaries, and the secondaries become primaries, which leads to isolation from friends and family, and ultimately depression, arguments with once loved ones become more common, and one becomes blind to the true pleasures in life, thinking that life is only pleasurable when intoxicated by the DOC.
There are different levels of loss too. Some people need to loose all friends, family, work, education, etc. to their DOC, before becoming depressed about their addiction. These people have a very low emotional breakpoint.
Others who have a high emotional breakpoint, come to terms with their addiction before losing all of the aforementioned. Luckily I am one of those people... at least so far
The important thing is to make sure that you always have your primaries in check, in order to be truly happy, and realise that the use of drugs to spice things up is an illusion that tricks your body and mind for good. Part with, or at least acknowledge this illusion, and you'll be fine, and maintain a healthy balance between primaries and secondaries, and you won't risk becoming addicted, so long as you know what is real and what is an induced impression by your DOC.
And then I have also realised that you shouldn't dose bupe based on desired effect, but simply maintain a dosing schedule without relying on your desire for intoxication. By doing this, you maintain the medical value of bupe, rather than it just becoming another recreative opiate... So even if you feel shitty at certain times, wait it out until your next dosage appointment. Plus this makes sure that the bupe levels in the blood are somewhat stable. Deviation will only fuck you up more, just remember how fast tolerance to dope comes around, because you want to take that extra line, shot, smoke, etc., to feel a little better.
Anyways, just a little input from my side of life... Hope everyone had a wonderful new years celebration!
Beerman
Bluelighter
EDIT: ^ Thank you for sharing your experience, it helps me, I read it after post mine..:
Hi all, I think I'm writing because I relapsed again today... don't know what to do to stop cravings with bupe... (and diazepam, weed and ambien![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
-except weed, all drugs are prescribed-)
The last time before that was 1/1/11 at 0:30 aprox. and I said to myself that I had to stop doing H at least a couple months..
but only 5 days and relapsed.. I get some money and go runing to buy a fucking bag.. And I don't know why really do that because I find suboxone pretty good at low doses, today at 11am took .5mg and feel pretty good but by 6pm was shotin 100mg of REALLY good dope.. Obviously (sp?) I'm not nodding now but I feel very euphoric, relaxed, blah, blah, blah..
I think this thread is not the one to post that, but the question I want to ask is if a higher dose of buprenorphine will be better for me, because of the blockade effect.. it sounds stupid, because I think that when I get some money, I will wait until blockade effect is gone and go buy..
Maybe I'm not ready yet to really jump off heroin, but I always wanted to became again an eventually user of heroin, like before of my addiction, when I only took H once a month or so.. like I did (and do) with other drugs (shrooms, 2cs, E, etc but weed -if I have- I smoke every day) but I'm realising (maybe yet) it's impossible..
Well, any advices will be very helpful. Thanks.
Have a good day/night hehe.
Hi all, I think I'm writing because I relapsed again today... don't know what to do to stop cravings with bupe... (and diazepam, weed and ambien
-except weed, all drugs are prescribed-)The last time before that was 1/1/11 at 0:30 aprox. and I said to myself that I had to stop doing H at least a couple months..
but only 5 days and relapsed.. I get some money and go runing to buy a fucking bag.. And I don't know why really do that because I find suboxone pretty good at low doses, today at 11am took .5mg and feel pretty good but by 6pm was shotin 100mg of REALLY good dope.. Obviously (sp?) I'm not nodding now but I feel very euphoric, relaxed, blah, blah, blah..
I think this thread is not the one to post that, but the question I want to ask is if a higher dose of buprenorphine will be better for me, because of the blockade effect.. it sounds stupid, because I think that when I get some money, I will wait until blockade effect is gone and go buy..
Maybe I'm not ready yet to really jump off heroin, but I always wanted to became again an eventually user of heroin, like before of my addiction, when I only took H once a month or so.. like I did (and do) with other drugs (shrooms, 2cs, E, etc but weed -if I have- I smoke every day) but I'm realising (maybe yet) it's impossible..
Well, any advices will be very helpful. Thanks.
Have a good day/night hehe.
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Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Maybe you should start on a higher dose, but I am not sure. Have you ever tried methadone?
Don't feel too bad; we are all human.
Don't feel too bad; we are all human.
bwanajzj
Bluelighter
@Beerman: I have also had issues with the same thing you are describing. Only difference is I used methadone, self-prescribed, to kick the dope habit earlier, but still ended up relapsing all the time. All the while wanting to become the 'occasion-user' that I used to be. I have also taken breaks from heroin for months, and during some of these periods, I used heroin for a day or two at a time. On bupe, I have relapsed once during the 10 days, and it just isn't worth it... I guess I was testing the waters, and found out they were too deep for me to swim in. But remember, I am no saint yet, it's only been 10 days for me.
For some, it takes longer to get back in the routine of doing dope after a period of abstinence, but for me it only takes 2-3 days, and then I'm heading straight to heavenly hell again. Some people can use heroin on and off on rare occasions without ever becoming an abuser or addicted - a minority of these people are just lucky, while the majority have a hella strong will power. Most heroin users just can't handle a habit like that, and go chasing the heroin as soon as the slightest discomfort or yearning for smack comes about. I don't know you well, but I imagine we are those kind of people, and in reality, we need to just get out and never use again, if the heroin is starting to take it's toll and the fun has been had. Unless, of course, an opiate is prescribed by a doctor for severe pain (then we'll have a fun little rollercoaster ride, enjoy it while it lasts, and then get back to the real world right after the theme park closes). Just know that if a voice inside you tells you that you're better off without it, then you most probably are, and should do everything in your power to get on with your life, and take care of what is important... remember, you live once, you got one shot to make it right. Not right by anyone elses standards, but right by your own. That voice that tells you no, probably knows what it's going on about, so try give it a listen. Let me know if the stuff I'm saying doesn't apply to you...
And the other drugs you mention, are probably going to do you better in the long run. Get tripping and smoking some ganja again, I'm sure you'll get more out of life that way, if your're not ready to toss all drugs. And if you can manage to just use heroin on rare occasions, way to fucking go! And good luck with your substitution therapy...
For some, it takes longer to get back in the routine of doing dope after a period of abstinence, but for me it only takes 2-3 days, and then I'm heading straight to heavenly hell again. Some people can use heroin on and off on rare occasions without ever becoming an abuser or addicted - a minority of these people are just lucky, while the majority have a hella strong will power. Most heroin users just can't handle a habit like that, and go chasing the heroin as soon as the slightest discomfort or yearning for smack comes about. I don't know you well, but I imagine we are those kind of people, and in reality, we need to just get out and never use again, if the heroin is starting to take it's toll and the fun has been had. Unless, of course, an opiate is prescribed by a doctor for severe pain (then we'll have a fun little rollercoaster ride, enjoy it while it lasts, and then get back to the real world right after the theme park closes). Just know that if a voice inside you tells you that you're better off without it, then you most probably are, and should do everything in your power to get on with your life, and take care of what is important... remember, you live once, you got one shot to make it right. Not right by anyone elses standards, but right by your own. That voice that tells you no, probably knows what it's going on about, so try give it a listen. Let me know if the stuff I'm saying doesn't apply to you...
And the other drugs you mention, are probably going to do you better in the long run. Get tripping and smoking some ganja again, I'm sure you'll get more out of life that way, if your're not ready to toss all drugs. And if you can manage to just use heroin on rare occasions, way to fucking go! And good luck with your substitution therapy...
Been&Done
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2010
- Messages
- 235
^^^Good post, i know what you're talking about with that "own inner voice" and you're right, that voice knows you best!
Good luck to us all.
Capt H...Was wondering where you've been around the New Year. Hope your arm feels better.
Down to 2 mg of Suboxone now, and excited about switching back to Subutex for that last taper.
Good luck to us all.
Capt H...Was wondering where you've been around the New Year. Hope your arm feels better.
Down to 2 mg of Suboxone now, and excited about switching back to Subutex for that last taper.
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muvolution
Bluelight Crew
I don't think this has been addressed, but as a Chronic Pain Patient who is seeing a new and very renowned doctor soon, how is the switch from Suboxone (1-2mg/ day) to a full agonist? Is there a waiting period, or any tricky things with tolerance, etc...? The last comfortable dose when I was in PM was 60mg of Oxymorphone/ day, so I'm wondering where to start with this.
need some help
Greenlighter
My doctor maintains that the Naloxone plays an integral part in staving off cravings, even after persistent and specific questioning. Which leads me to my point. No Subutex for me. Meaning no generics. Its outrageous. CVS is by far the "most affordable" but holy shit! Even with no insurance i guess i'm saving myself an unbelievable amount of money each month in comparison to what i was spending on my mandatory recreation.... but part of my squeaky clean dream includes an elevator out of the financial hole i've been dwelling in. Anyone want to break in number 11 with confirmed news of a miracle?
rolls_
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2009
- Messages
- 475
I changed from 1mg suboxone to 0.8mg (2x0.4) subutex and there was no difference, ever so slightly wd on day 1 when I adjusted which was probably mainly a placebo but that was it.
I also wondered how much of a difference it made but I couldn't feel it at all?
need some help
Greenlighter
Yeah, it's not even that i'm unwilling to try, i just live in the sticks and the doctors are few and far between. Its Suboxone or nothing with him. He's actually the closest drive by hours. How were you taking it? Maybe once this thing called maintenance catches on here and people become aware of the dollars involved it will become more competitive and i'll have my pick of Docs. but for now this is it. Its o.k. though, the cost helps me keep serious about not screwing up, the drive gives me time to clear my head, and i'm beginning to feel like a real person again....
catcalls
Bluelighter
Well, dropping 0.2mg there should be little to no wd. That is how some people taper down in the UK. I was dropping 0.4mg a fortnight until I hit a wall at 3.2mg. I was messing around with my dose at the time tho (Taking 4mg one day, then 3.2mg on the third day) so perhaps the 'wall' was due to me rather than the taperage dose.
Mr. Squiggle!
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2010
- Messages
- 354
Hi all, I'm thinking of doing the kick, so which is the best option?
BUPRENORPHINE
Tablet (sublingual) 8 mg (as hydrochloride)
BUPRENORPHINE with NALOXONE
Tablet (sublingual) 8 mg (as hydrochloride)-2 mg (as hydrochloride)
METHADONE HYDROCHLORIDE
Oral liquid 25 mg per 5 mL, 200 mL
BUPRENORPHINE
Tablet (sublingual) 8 mg (as hydrochloride)
BUPRENORPHINE with NALOXONE
Tablet (sublingual) 8 mg (as hydrochloride)-2 mg (as hydrochloride)
METHADONE HYDROCHLORIDE
Oral liquid 25 mg per 5 mL, 200 mL
SubDude
Bluelighter
Thanks. I don't drink at all. What I meant by "sober" is that I was not drunk, I didn't take a benzo, and I wasn't even stoned.
For the countless times I have driven intoxicated, it shocks me that I am a better driver than a walker.
Was referring to being on private property of a business and the area not being properly salted/cleared in a timely manner. Way back when I had Insurance biz... we would always get a ton of claims everytime it snowed. And we settled the majority of them. If you were anywhere off your own property... you have a potential case. If any negligence... a fx is worth big dollars.
One of my daughters was in a car accident yrs ago and fx her leg and got $100k over and above med bills. just saying...
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
It was actually in my neighborhood.
I am in less pain today, and have a new splint on it.
I got new Xrays; I was in so much pain. It was more psychologically horrifying than anything else. My arm looks horrible.
jnicolas1980
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2009
- Messages
- 69
My hat off to you, sir, for dealing with this opiate-free. I'm very accident-prone and have broken many a bone over the years, and I don't know what it'd be like without some form of full agonist to numb the pain. Hope you heal quickly.
IndustrialStrength
Bluelighter
@ Captain.H Sorry to hear your having a bad time, 
I hope everything heals well & quickly.
As for my update...
I'll NSFW it as I post lengthy posts & tend to use them for a sense of catharsis.
Regardless I hope everyone is doing well with there maintenance or taper's & that everyone had a good holiday.
I meant to post sooner but just didn't have the time.
Seeing as posting about shit makes shit easier to deal with I figure I post it & reap the benefits.
Thanks again to everyone for putting up with my long winded post's as I find it quite theraputic.
A final note my friend just called & I think it's probably a foregone conclusion that I'm just gonna jump off sub for a few & do shit with him.
Hell the calls are already made, it's just up to others now if shit comes through or not.
I have to work next week starting tuesday so I figure I can jump back to sub between now & then.
Ah the trials & tribulations of maintenance & life...
As I said much appreciation to everyone for letting me ramble.
Sorry if the above doesn't make complete sense without reading the NSFW but I don't wanna NSFW everything.
I hope everything heals well & quickly.
As for my update...
I'll NSFW it as I post lengthy posts & tend to use them for a sense of catharsis.
NSFW:
Regardless I hope everyone is doing well with there maintenance or taper's & that everyone had a good holiday.
I meant to post sooner but just didn't have the time.
Seeing as posting about shit makes shit easier to deal with I figure I post it & reap the benefits.
Thanks again to everyone for putting up with my long winded post's as I find it quite theraputic.
A final note my friend just called & I think it's probably a foregone conclusion that I'm just gonna jump off sub for a few & do shit with him.
Hell the calls are already made, it's just up to others now if shit comes through or not.
I have to work next week starting tuesday so I figure I can jump back to sub between now & then.
Ah the trials & tribulations of maintenance & life...
As I said much appreciation to everyone for letting me ramble.
Sorry if the above doesn't make complete sense without reading the NSFW but I don't wanna NSFW everything.
need some help
Greenlighter
Hi I.S. i feel the same way about the day to day cathartic post. As long as we get no objection from the Captain, i'll do the same. i'm still not an official bluelighter, and since i've been to a lot of the other threads, especially the lounge, i've decided i'd rather just post here. This thread contains useful information along with intelligent conversation between people who can complete a sentence. i cant say the same for the rest. For some reason i waaaay upped my dose today, and it's having some strange side effects, not necessarily pleasant. i'm not sure what possessed me at the time, but i hope its an infrequent occurrence. i've felt pretty stable mentally, but pretty damn achy in the muscle department. Captain H. i hope your new splint suits you, and Industrial, i hope you don't do anything you regret as far as falling off of maintenance. If you're o.k. with it, i am too, and a little jealous. Not a healthy feeling on my part, MUST CHANGE THOUGHT PATTERN......take care all, and i'll more than likely be back tonight.
need some help
Greenlighter
Bupe with Nal is what i'm on now, and it's not so bad. i had a friend give me some subutex when i was just trying to avoid w/d and not working on kicking and i swear i wanted more of it, more of anything. It certainly wasn't a controlled testing environment, and i'ts been said here by knowledgeable people that there is no difference between the two... i'm happy with what i'm on. That being said, i deffer to Captain Heroins advice, which he will more than likely give you later on. Good luck.
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