UK's drug industry

[captain codshit]

That's at your level codders. I'm talking about point of origin prices and i'm sure you don't buy all drugs. How does the price of heroin compare to the past 10 years and how's the quality?

Nah man the prices atm for crystal mdma or coke are the cheapest they've been since the drought. The two-tier market and RC's probably contributed to this.

Sure it varies alot with the market for each drug. Meph is the most expensive it's been since it first hit the UK.

Going by all the heroin threads on here i'd say purity is way down and price up.

 

[Jabberwocky]

If anything we ere pointing towards the difficulty in obtaining precusers and intermediates to create designer drugs.
I know someone who works for a chemical firm which will remain nameless. She told me if you try to obtain certain chemicals over a certain amount anywhere in the world the transaction is flagged up to some seriously powerful organisations and with these chemicals now so closely watched at source has made it very difficult to deal with them 'no questions asked'.

i bet there's someone you can pay to ignore the transaction- just look for whoever's lobbying the hardest for drugs prohibition and thats your guy. if the substances are cheaper, which they may well be, even with a hefty payoff the price can be be lower. also, i highly suspect there is as much of a black market in drugs precursors as there is in drugs, none of those transactions will get flagged.

ok so there's two issues here which is why i found it confusing: firstly the countries we totally fuck over due to their drug production; secondly the strict control of certain substances which can be legally available, and countries are not penalised for supplying. whilst both are broadly due to the 'war on drugs' they're otherwise quite separate. i perceive them both to be losing battles. we cannot possibly have worked out every synth route for every illegal chemical so banning precursors and intermediaries is a temporary stop to the problem. it takes a tiny amount of land to meet all the worlds heroin requirements so as long as somewhere gets overlooked h is still available.

 

[missing old pills]

Nah man the prices atm for crystal mdma or coke are the cheapest they've been since the drought. The two-tier market and RC's probably contributed to this.

Sure it varies alot with the market for each drug. Meph is the most expensive it's been since it first hit the UK.

Going by all the heroin threads on here i'd say purity is way down and price up.

I always look at coke and heroin as being the daddy of drugs. The war on drugs is causing the high price low quality for reasons I explained in my opening post.
As for all rc's and designer chemicals without proper quantitive testing we only have subjective reports and our own experience to go by hence the arguments and difference of opinions between people.
Weed however is a different story thanks to hyrdoponic(is that the right spelling) technology imo has never been better. My mate grows the stuff and to see it grown,harvested and then rolled and smoked makes me wish I could feel safer for the rest of the market.

 

[captain codshit]

There's several obvious factors etc. More being imported straight rather than via traditional routes, high demand and a healthy market for a certain product and you'll always have someone trying to capitalise.

Most of the weed sold in the UK is actually sprayed (around here anyway). Hash has never been better for me locally though.

 

[missing old pills]

There's several obvious factors etc. More being imported straight rather than via traditional routes, high demand and a healthy market for a certain product and you'll always have someone trying to capitalise.

Most of the weed sold in the UK is actually sprayed (around here anyway). Hash has never been better for me locally though.

There's no spraying on my mates crop and as for hash I got sick of pulling bits of plastic out of it years ago as the rest of Europe dumped their shit on us

 

[ponch]

I think you have to split this discussion in to 2 parts really the markets for synthetic and non-synthetic drugs are affected by different market forces. For designer synthetic drugs the prices normally start high and decrease as popularity increases.

For non-synthetic drugs (cocaine & heroin) there are quite a lot of non drug related factors to take into account that will affect wholesale price. Price increases of fuel are going to increase transit costs, exhange rates will affect bulk price when buying from south america for example. A lot of people are not prepared to pay extra for coke, see the amount of people that turn their nose up at anything more than £40 a g. Like someone mentioned before, there is now a 2 tier market. If you are prepared to put up the cash there is good gear around, if you want to carry on paying £40 a g then see your purity levels drop over time.

 

[knock]

I think you have to split this discussion in to 2 parts really the markets for synthetic and non-synthetic drugs are affected by different market forces. For designer synthetic drugs the prices normally start high and decrease as popularity increases.

For non-synthetic drugs (cocaine & heroin) there are quite a lot of non drug related factors to take into account that will affect wholesale price. Price increases of fuel are going to increase transit costs, exhange rates will affect bulk price when buying from south america for example.

I don't think that's true, synthetic drugs are just as subject to transport costs and exchange rates, I thought it was well established that most of the designer drugs come in from the Far East / India.

Also what is a synthetic drug? Whatever precursors you use have to come from somewhere and guess what, all of it comes from the world around you. There's no clear line between synthetic and non-synthetic, it's just the degree of processing that the raw materials go through, so "synthetic" drugs are likely to have a much more complex supply chain.

 

[ponch]

As far as I know Amphetamine, MDMA, 2cb, 2ci etc don't occur naturally thats what I mean by synthetic. Cocaine production is just an extraction, I guess Heroin isnt strictly non-synthetic.

I was under the impression most of the synthetic drugs sold in the UK were mostly produced in europe. If thats the case production has to be a lot cheaper as I would imagine transporting precursors, even across different continents, is a lot less hot than transporting large amounts of coke. If most of the synthetic drugs are produced in the Far East/India as you say then thats my argument screwed

 

[knock]

As far as I know Amphetamine, MDMA, 2cb, 2ci etc don't occur naturally thats what I mean by synthetic. Cocaine production is just an extraction, I guess Heroin isnt strictly non-synthetic.

MDMA - the main precursor comes from safrole oil, which comes from Sassafras trees.

2CB, 2CI - based on benzaldehyde, which comes from bitter almond oil, amongst other places.

Don't know about speed.

Nothing is fully synthetic though, the atoms have to come from somewhere, scientists don't magic them into existence in the lab!

I was under the impression most of the synthetic drugs sold in the UK were mostly produced in europe. If thats the case production has to be a lot cheaper as I would imagine transporting precursors, even across different continents, is a lot less hot than transporting large amounts of coke. If most of the synthetic drugs are produced in the Far East/India as you say then thats my argument screwed

Maybe it's not most, I'm not certain, but look at mephedrone and all the more recent research chems, brewed in China.

Anyway my point is that although some things may not occur in nature without human intervention, they have precursors which do occur in nature, which allow you to skip the introductory steps involved if you were synthesising something from elemental chemicals, thus keeping the cost down. The natural sources of those precursors are subject to the same conditions as the Opium Poppy and the Coca plant.

 

[Transform]

Let's not be pedantic I don't think this thread needs derailing into an "everything is made from chemicals" argument.

I see what you mean, but I think it's more the fact that you need a lot of poppies/coca for a small amount of herion which means all processing is done abroad and then it is smuggled in. This means there are a lot more cutting hands involved, and more risk inflating the price.
Less hands and local production can bring the prices down.

I don't think this is because of a synthetic/non-synthetic gap, I think it's because of a combination of the huge demand and the low active content of the plants. Frankly I think if cannabis was a powdered extract, it too would suffer the same treatment.

'Synthetic' drugs tend to be in lower demand, have lower active doses, and are synthesised more locally.

 

[knock]

Let's not be pedantic I don't think this thread needs derailing into an "everything is made from chemicals" argument.

It's not pedantry, that isn't the argument. "Synthetic" drugs have precursors obtained from "nature" so they are subject to the same economic forces as wholly "natural" ones, this is clearly an on-topic and salient response to Ponch's earlier post.

'Synthetic' drugs tend to be in lower demand, have lower active doses, and are synthesised more locally.

What a load of utter nonsense. MDMA is in high demand. Ketamine is in high demand. A dose of either of these synthetic drugs is similar in size to a dose of cut cocaine. Salvinorin A, a molecule produced by a plant, is active in the tenth of a milligram range.

 

[mattnotrik]

Prices fluctuate, its pretty much the basics of supply and demand economics. The prices of a product can never be linked directly to the quality of a product as they do fluctuate so much from year to year although alot of people assume the the higher the price the better the quality. The prices of ecstacy for example were £10-£20 for a pill yes, but everyone is not going to come to an agreement are they, "ok no one must under cut us", so the next drug lord can sell the pills for much less, making more money. The next person is better at producing the product, so they can sell it for much less, the prices of a product come down gradually much over time, untill eventually the price comes so low that they might aswell be selling an adulterated product to gain the same price. So a quality product is sold again at a higher price and the cycle continues again.

Very bad coke was sold recently for along time for £30, alot of people realised it was shit so started buying "flake" for £50, sellers realised the people wanted quality coke, hence the life of the £60-£100 gram, which alot of people now buy more than the very adulterated stuff.

Im not sure what you are implying when you say producers are "turning there back on classic drugs", im guessing you are talking about your main love of the ecstacy mdea,speed,ket,mda classic pill from the 80's" Im pretty sure nice coke is still about, that "classic coke", nice heroin is still about, that "classic heroin", and ecstacy pills are about, cleaner and cheaper than ever and to an wider audience. There is no war on drugs as it will never be won, they intercept about 1% of all imported drugs into the UK and they know it will never be won..

 

[missing old pills]

Prices fluctuate, its pretty much the basics of supply and demand economics. The prices of a product can never be linked directly to the quality of a product as they do fluctuate so much from year to year although alot of people assume the the higher the price the better the quality. The prices of ecstacy for example were £10-£20 for a pill yes, but everyone is not going to come to an agreement are they, "ok no one must under cut us", so the next drug lord can sell the pills for much less, making more money. The next person is better at producing the product, so they can sell it for much less, the prices of a product come down gradually much over time, untill eventually the price comes so low that they might aswell be selling an adulterated product to gain the same price. So a quality product is sold again at a higher price and the cycle continues again.

Very bad coke was sold recently for along time for £30, alot of people realised it was shit so started buying "flake" for £50, sellers realised the people wanted quality coke, hence the life of the £60-£100 gram, which alot of people now buy more than the very adulterated stuff.

Im not sure what you are implying when you say producers are "turning there back on classic drugs", im guessing you are talking about your main love of the ecstacy mdea,speed,ket,mda classic pill from the 80's" Im pretty sure nice coke is still about, that "classic coke", nice heroin is still about, that "classic heroin", and ecstacy pills are about, cleaner and cheaper than ever and to an wider audience. There is no war on drugs as it will never be won, they intercept about 1% of all imported drugs into the UK and they know it will never be won..

Just a quick point. This thread is refering to ALL drugs and I wasn't saying producers were turning their back on classic drugs. I was refering to users in favour of, in my group of friends, weed that they know is of a good qualty because they know where the stuff originates from or they're experimenting with new rc's of which they're not impressed.
Remember the people I know, some of which were in the drugs industry, now see the penalties of being caught in possesion or dealing the products does not warrant the risks due to substandard products.
I know it's not the same for everyone and my group is just a snap shot of users but I was interested in other views.

 

[Shambles]

In 2000 the drug war kicked off by Richard Nixon had been running for 40 years and had cost countless lives and money. It was not at all successful especially if you believe the stories that the CIA was responsible for the crack explosion in the US under the Reagan administation.

It's not a story - the CIA's own documents, court cases and legal judgements all admit to and prove it. This is all part of the reason the "Drug War" is a very complex issue indeed and economic arguments are of minimal value. It's purely political - economics are barely here nor there.

Number 4 :- let's go back into Afganistan to road test new military hardware and destroy heroin crops allthough most of the world are crying out for medical painkillers.

Again, not quite true - the US military have actively encouraged, increased and protected poppy production in Afghanistan since the invasion. Under the Taliban poppy production plummeted, once the US got involved production has massively increased... and availability has plummeted whilst price rockets. Wonder why that would be the case? It's pretty simple if you think about it...

 

[ollieideal]

I posted in drugs in the media, a article from the Daily Mail, about the drug war n how they have had prohibition on say h since 1919 n the fight is now roughly a 100 yrs old it aint working, I said thomas dequincy the author and his supplier both were not criminals,one a respected author,the other a respectable druggist/chemist it is the law that makes em criminal.as for classic drugs I think mop is right,in fact i agree so much i've turned my back pretty much on the black market of late money wise and have taken to new messures to get classic drugs, with research n secret friends n places,one can get their drug of choice. as for the mdma ,so ,so many people do not realize christal mud will always only be 82-88 percent pure as from powder to liquid adulterants must be added 2 make it christal, that is why the pills that contain the old mdma were better than the cristal mdma they were pure mdma with binders.folk talk about new synths but hey thats how it goes n moprhs n always will like any criminal activity that is basically a illegal copy, blueprint of capitalism.
look back in time to the victorians,laundanum,opium n pure alcohol,simple.
afghani h smuggled via north into russia, thru europe then us stamped on all the way, if one just goes to portugal the strength is so so much stronger.
but go to india if u want good drugs cheap, just dont buy bulk ,buy quick in n out n stashed in foreskin or inside u some where cos once ur noticed as a western user be it h, e's, k, lsd, charish, in goa they have no trade other than tourism n setting em up no local farmiing or exportation of locally made products ,it's just a haven supplied by kashmiri's,israli's, n a whole plethora of various international folk n central asia persons supplying n so much corruption,but it's one of the last places where one can get quality very cheap. n even if caught with percy, cash will set u free, even a giros worth.

 

[missing old pills]

It's not a story - the CIA's own documents, court cases and legal judgements all admit to and prove it. This is all part of the reason the "Drug War" is a very complex issue indeed and economic arguments are of minimal value. It's purely political - economics are barely here nor there.



Again, not quite true - the US military have actively encouraged, increased and protected poppy production in Afghanistan since the invasion. Under the Taliban poppy production plummeted, once the US got involved production has massively increased... and availability has plummeted whilst price rockets. Wonder why that would be the case? It's pretty simple if you think about it...

It is mate but whenever I mention the truth threads usally end in arguments for reasons that are pretty simple. Thank you for your input my dear man I'm just glad there are some people who talk straight and to the point.

 

[missing old pills]

I posted in drugs in the media, a article from the Daily Mail, about the drug war n how they have had prohibition on say h since 1919 n the fight is now roughly a 100 yrs old it aint working, I said thomas dequincy the author and his supplier both were not criminals,one a respected author,the other a respectable druggist/chemist it is the law that makes em criminal.as for classic drugs I think mop is right,in fact i agree so much i've turned my back pretty much on the black market of late money wise and have taken to new messures to get classic drugs, with research n secret friends n places,one can get their drug of choice. as for the mdma ,so ,so many people do not realize christal mud will always only be 82-88 percent pure as from powder to liquid adulterants must be added 2 make it christal, that is why the pills that contain the old mdma were better than the cristal mdma they were pure mdma with binders.folk talk about new synths but hey thats how it goes n moprhs n always will like any criminal activity that is basically a illegal copy, blueprint of capitalism.
look back in time to the victorians,laundanum,opium n pure alcohol,simple.
afghani h smuggled via north into russia, thru europe then us stamped on all the way, if one just goes to portugal the strength is so so much stronger.
but go to india if u want good drugs cheap, just dont buy bulk ,buy quick in n out n stashed in foreskin or inside u some where cos once ur noticed as a western user be it h, e's, k, lsd, charish, in goa they have no trade other than tourism n setting em up no local farmiing or exportation of locally made products ,it's just a haven supplied by kashmiri's,israli's, n a whole plethora of various international folk n central asia persons supplying n so much corruption,but it's one of the last places where one can get quality very cheap. n even if caught with percy, cash will set u free, even a giros worth.

thanks for that I've never considered some of those valid points

 

[Shambles]

Ollie has wisdom his spelling belies

 

[sundayraver]

Because drug dealers prefer paper to coins when it comes to inflation drug prices should have to go up in £5 incriments. Obviously to charge an extra fiver for a pill or wrap of coke isnt going to work, dealers turn to bashing the drug to make an extra quid or 2.

Unfortunatly this form of compensating seems to go all the way down the chain of drug suppliers with coke!

 

[Sadie]

Since this thread starts off discussing the "war on drugs" I thought I'd share some articles I've enjoyed and found to be of interest. If you find yourself with a bit of time to kill they're a good read IMO

http://www.drugwar.com/propaganda.shtm

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web1/clarke.html

http://www.serendipity.li/wod.html

http://www.drugpolicycentral.com/bot/pg/propaganda.htm An interesting site btw

But my favourite articles are from Noam Chomsky a professor of linguistics and a prominent political activist. He, along with Edward Herman developed the Propaganda Model

Here are a few links of his relating to the war on drugs

http://deoxy.org/usdrugs.htm

http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/199804--.htm

http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20020208.htm

a good article of his to read is The United States and the "Challenge of Relativity Though it's not written solely about drugs policy it does discuss it.

You can find other articles by Chomsky here if interested.