Bupe Just jumped from 130mg of meth to bupe, need some insight

[RaveToTheGrave]

I know this has been asked time and time again, I am up at 3am, I cant sleep, I had an old bottle of subutex, 90 8mg pills and could no longer stand feeling looked down on or hand fed if you will my methadone. Also I noticed my adderall was not at all working when on 130mg of meth. I have done this switch before at 90mg with little if any problems. I take phenobarbital for seizures and klonopin for anxiety. Phenobarbital eats up methadone according to two doctors I spoke with. I am on 90mg a day or 30mg 3 times a day, sometimes more only because the meth would only work until barely 5am. So I waited about 36 hours and sniffed about 2mg, expecting to be thrown into a withdrawal from hell, instead my nose stopped running and I almost instantly felt better. I was on methadone for only 2 months. I found a prescribing doctor for subutex under my insurance already. All I am really wondering is 1. does phenobarbital have an effect on bupe, and on all drugs for that matter, 2. was this really dangerous and stupid of me to attempt to break free from the methadone at such a high dose and to try to be as normal as possible in society, not having to explain to a girl I need to get up at 5am every morning to get my one dose of medicine and wait 2 years to get weekly pickups? I have read your first few nights on bupe sometimes are hard to sleep, and I although I feel normal, not high, just normal, not sick or anything, I can not sleep for nothing.

 

[BuckieGoldstein]

Ive often wondered ... why do opioid users stay on anything at all? So many methadone users ... why not just taper off of opioids and just quit? Is it just that difficult to quit? And how many miligrams of opioid per day would make the impossible to break?habbit

 

[splenda]

Phenobarbital will 'eat up' your buprenorphine dose a bit faster too as phenobarbital is known for having major drug interactions. Phenobarbital induces the CYP450 system.

From Epocrates:


1. buprenorphine <-> phenobarbital

caution advised: combo may decr. buprenorphine levels, efficacy; may incr. risk of CNS depression, psychomotor impairment (hepatic metab. induced; additive effects)

 

[splenda]

Ive often wondered ... why do opioid users stay on anything at all? So many methadone users ... why not just taper off of opioids and just quit? Is it just that difficult to quit? And how many miligrams of opioid per day would make the impossible to break?habbit

Well... after being an opioid user who has tried to get clean numerous amounts of times over the past 5 years I finally decided to get on methadone. Methadone has allowed me to be 'stable' and not in withdrawals every week out of the month, which allows me to obviously 'function better in society', heh.

Unfortunately once a person gets addicted to opioids it usually is a life long battle with cravings and relapse. Maintenance with opioid-replacement therapies (such as methadone or buprenorphine) allows a person to reduce these cravings and problems associated with addiction and relapse.

 

[RaveToTheGrave]

Ive often wondered ... why do opioid users stay on anything at all? So many methadone users ... why not just taper off of opioids and just quit? Is it just that difficult to quit? And how many miligrams of opioid per day would make the impossible to break?habbit

The best way I can answer your question is that I have tapered off of methadone completely once, and also bupe once, and both times got addicted to heroin again, there are only so many times you can go to detox, with medicaid, its every 90 days 8)

 

[splenda]

BTW, I noticed that you said in your OP that you needed to dose sometimes 3 or more times a day (of methadone)? Yeah, it seriously sounds like you have some major interactions with the phenobarbital going on. Most people on maintenance need MAX double-dosing (twice a day), and usually only pain patients have to dose 3-4 times a day.

Try to remove the phenobarbital if possible; clonazepam being a long acting benzodiazepine should be enough for some forms of epilepsy but if not then try to find another drug with less interaction with the CYP450 system to treat your epilepsy.

 

[RaveToTheGrave]

So being on 24mg of bupe a day, plus my other meds I should be okay right? I just sniffed 8mg of bupe and got a shiver down my spine and feel good, but more awake.

 

[RaveToTheGrave]

No no, thank you for trying to decode my babble. I dosed once a day of meth and 3 times a day of bupe or phenobarb. I might get off the phenobarb or keep getting it and make some money.

 

[splenda]

So being on 24mg of bupe a day, plus my other meds I should be okay right? I just sniffed 8mg of bupe and got a shiver down my spine and feel good, but more awake.

Well like I said unless you get off of the phenobarbital and find a better more suitable anti-epileptic with less of an interaction profile then you might need to adjust your dose of buprenorphine over time as your dose might not last as long or might not be as effective.

There are no major interactions with Adderall (d,l-amphetamine) and buprenorphine really either. I wonder if the d,l-amphetamine might work even better for ADHD on buprenorphine instead of methadone, as I'm currently on methadone and have had some issues with ADHD meds not being as effective too.

As always, be careful mixing any downers (klonopin, phenobarbital itself even with its interaction profile) with methadone or buprenorphine.

 

[RaveToTheGrave]

Thank you splenda, you are ever so kind and sweet without making me gain weight, , just kidding, but yeah there is a problem with adhd meds and methadone, i get 60 15mg adderall every month, once my methadone dose went past 60 I started noticing the euphoria disappear and I was able to sleep well still in the 12 hour period. I will get off the phenobarbital. It has only been 1 month that I have been on it. I will try to keep getting it along with my benzo's just to have it around incase of emergency, coming down from coke or something of the sort (I.E Adderall, lsd, xtc) back to one of my original questions, just how strong is subutex, suboxone, bupe. whatever you may call it, 130mg of methadone from what I read may not have the same affinity as bupe on the opiod receptors, but it should be stronger. I honestly do not feel 100%, but within a week or two I will not notice any such problems. Thank you for your insight and goodnight.

 

[ATLL765]

I never needed more than 2mg of bupe to relieve most of my withdrawal symptoms, but with a high tolerance, you might need 4mg or more to feel 100%. My suggestion is to take 4mg and if 30 minutes to an hour later you don't feel 100% take another 2mg and wait again and if you still feel like you aren't quite there yet, take another 2mg. I don't think there's any way you would need more than 8mg to feel 100%, so I think at that point you should be fine.

Check here if you have any other questions about Suboxone/Subutex check out this thread http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=524458 lots of good info there to help you out.

 

[RaveToTheGrave]

Thank you, I would like to only be on 8mg a day, but right now I think 16-24mg, might keep me stable over the next couple of days. I need to get used to my kappa opiod receptor not being used anymore I think, or maybe thats my accuse. I am in NYC and its craptastic outside and the weather always effects me. I have to say I love certain effects bupe puts on me, 1. the warmth, I always feel warm after dosing 2. I can have sex for like an hour.

 

[JASS92]

I really really do not think you need to be using 24mg of Bupe ED. If anything drop down to 14-16mg. I know many people that were on 200+mg of Methadone a day, and they did just fine moving over to 14mg Bupe. Heck I had a HORRIBLE dope habit, where I was slamming 2 grams of high purity everyday, and 8mg of Suboxone kept me feeling normal. Key word there is normal. I was not looking to get high; but, after 2 days of the worst withdrawals I ever experienced, 8mg of Suboxone sublingually made me instantly feel normal.

I would simply advise being weary using more than 8mg of Bupe ED. Everyone I know that has exceeded that dose has had an incredibly difficult time getting off of Bupe.

What I would really recommend, would simply be to SLOWLY titrate your methadone dose down first, and then switch over to the Bupe. At that point, you can get to a low enough daily dose of bupe, where you can stop altogether. I think what is usually recommended, is to slowly titrate to 30-40mg Methadone. At that point, you could likely switch over to 4-6mg of Suboxone, and feel absolutely wonderful. Then, do a rapid titration with the bupe.

The thing is, most doctors really have their practices ass-backwards in reference to bupe. I have used bupe numerous times to get off dope, and it is truly ideal to do so over a 2 week period MAX. It really is possible to do, and I don't care what anyone says, it is only minorly discomforting. I would not even consider what you go through with a 2 week rapid bupe detox as withdrawals. Seriously though, all you will experience is minor cravings, a little rebound insomnia, and a tad bit of RLS (this is the worst part in my opinion). This is only the last few days or so that you experience this too.

And amazingly enough after this time, you are opiod FREE!!!! It is such a wonderful feeling to not be dependent on this crap anymore. You will absolutely love it. Now if only I could get myself to go through with it again....

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

Ive often wondered ... why do opioid users stay on anything at all? So many methadone users ... why not just taper off of opioids and just quit? Is it just that difficult to quit? And how many miligrams of opioid per day would make the impossible to break?habbit

there is no "mg" that is impossible to break the habit...nothings impossible, depends on the person outlook/mindset..or if they have the will to change for the better

and the reason they dont taper off is simple, they could be scared, nervous, not knowing what the future holds, thinking they will relapse, think they need a pill to live...or just not out of the addict mind set...

and with methadone, its REALLY HARD to taper, thats why suboxone is probably the only pill that can easily be weaned down with....all dr's will tell u if u go on methadone, that could be ur life, u could be on it forever...

and why so many opiod users stay on "anthing at all"

its ADDICTING...idk if u are addicted, but if u ever get there ull understand, addiction changes people\...ur best friend for 15 years could end up stealing ur identity....ya dig what im saying....opiates are bad news when it comes to addiction.

 

[BuckieGoldstein]

there is no "mg" that is impossible to break the habit...nothings impossible, depends on the person outlook/mindset..or if they have the will to change for the better

and the reason they dont taper off is simple, they could be scared, nervous, not knowing what the future holds, thinking they will relapse, think they need a pill to live...or just not out of the addict mind set...

and with methadone, its REALLY HARD to taper, thats why suboxone is probably the only pill that can easily be weaned down with....all dr's will tell u if u go on methadone, that could be ur life, u could be on it forever...

and why so many opiod users stay on "anthing at all"

its ADDICTING...idk if u are addicted, but if u ever get there ull understand, addiction changes people\...ur best friend for 15 years could end up stealing ur identity....ya dig what im saying....opiates are bad news when it comes to addiction.

Thank you. I should have further clarified my question ... You answered it perfectly (all of you), but what I really wanted to know was: Is the decision to switch to methadone driven by an absolute physical need, or is it mainly a psychological choice?

Is life easier to manage with methadone? Does methadone make you feel the same as you do on heroin? Is it time released so that you only need it once a day?

I have a 180mg per day oxy habit that has switched over to a roughly 50 to 80 mg of black tar heroin a day and I swear to <insert deity of choice here> I cannot tell the difference between the two - I use to cold water micron filter my oxy and shoot it. I also use meth to stay away from the nodding and when my doc found out I was taking meth, he cut me off of my oxy - fucking asshole.

Anyways, I was just curious. I seem to live a normal life doing what Im doing now I just wondered why I would ever consider methadone.

Something else that always puzzled me ... people who are "hard core" heroin users ... back alley addicts etc. (dramatic pause) ... I use to have this vision in my mind that heroin would produce amazing psychological euphoria that was somehow so good that you just couldn't do without it once you had it ... but now I know its just like any other schedule II narcotic pain killer for the most part. Yes, it's stronger, but it still produces the histamine response in me and it makes me nod off ... big whoop! I could live without it if I didn't have chronic pain to manage. But to live homeless and beg borrow and steal for another hit ... I dunno ... that seems to me that someone would need to be a weak minded individual to fall that deeply for this shit. Your alternate choice is to shake it out, or whatever public assistance there is, but to be satisfied living homeless for any drug just doesn't resonate with me at all ... unless the person had a prior mental propensity to accept homelessness as a lifestyle ... THEN it makes sense - but that being the case, they are not to be pitied, but accepted for who they are.

And can someone please tell me what "Bupe" is?

Thanks,

Buck

 

[stray cat]

i can't tell if you're joking or not, but since i'm still wired from the adderall i took yesterday afternoon (dudes: made the switch back over from rit bc it had quit working, and addy is way more effective for now, but it just doesn't wear off for me- ir, only 30mg a day max... anyway), i'll take a crack.

most people that go the methadone maintenance route are doing it i guess for psychological and physical reasons, i.e. it is much easier to manage your life when you are taking a long-lasting, legally administered, relatively inexpensive drug that you can still function on (after a while anyway) than it is to pay hundreds of dollars a day to support an illegal opiate habit. the physical need is there the same way it would be w/ any other opiate to which someone is addicted; you just don't have to structure your whole life around the addiction so much or live in boxes like the people you don't pity. this may not be as much of an issue for people prescribed strong opiates legitimately, i don't know.

it might make you feel similar to the heroin high at first. however, that typically wears off when you are using it daily, and i don't think the high would be comparable to heroin for most opiate-addicted people (especially after doing it for a while), and there is not a rush (orally administered anyway). as stated, it can make your life easier, depending on what your life was like prior to methadone. [at a certain dose, it makes other opiates pretty much ineffective, so maybe this would also prevent methadone users from "relapsing" on illegal drugs- that dose is called a blockade dose- some people try to take enough illegal opiates to surpass this, which is dangerous.] it could certainly complicate the life of someone who was addicted to no opiate and got addicted to methadone. it is not time released, but it has an extremely long half-life.

Paragraph 3 does not pose a question. sorry you lost your oxy.

sounds like a pretty normal life... shooting black tar and meth... i take that back though. i don't have any idea what your life is like. maybe it really rules all the time, like when rock stars do drugs. you might consider methadone bc your doctor cut you off of oxy, and you don't want to have to steal from people or whatever to support a daily illicit drug habit. or have to worry about withdawal. or any number of reasons... i'm sure you can read about methadone online somewhere.

i think a lot of people would probably take issue with your analysis of very down and out addicts as "weak-minded," although that was generally the prevailing school of thought prior to the oxford houses and subsequently, aa, na, etc. i don't think most people with any education in addiction would see it that way currently, but yes, those people are a good example of individuals who could potentially benefit from methadone if they decided they no longer wanted to live in boxes and lead more "normal" lives.

bupe=buprenorphine - it's another maintenance/treatment type drug for opiate addiction. kind of like methadone in that sense but it is a partial agonist, there are less restrictions on getting it prescribed w/out visiting some sort of clinic daily. again, TONS of info on this site about it. suboxone, subutex are 2 brands of buprenorphine. it is also used to treat pain in much smaller doses- one brand is temgesic.

 

[BuckieGoldstein]

i can't tell if you're joking or not

Unfortunately, I'm not. :-|

most people that go the methadone maintenance route are doing it i guess for psychological and physical reasons... <snip>

That makes sense and is what I suspected but I've quit pain killers before after a three year addiction without even thinking twice about them and I'm assuming I'll be able to do the same with the shit I'm taking now ... maybe not, who knows until I try ... either way, with my past experience with prescription narcotics and other drugs, I guess I never understood the apparent "need" to switch to methadone from heroin. Now that I know it's merely a personal decision, it all makes perfect sense.

it might make you feel similar to the heroin high at first. however, that typically wears off when you are using it daily

I've been shooting for about 17 months now and I still get a little rush when I hit ... I've never really gotten a "high" from opioids as "highs" go that is ... compared to a hit of LSD or a several tokes from a good bud opioids dont get me high ... they make me feel pleasant. :-D

It is not time released, but it has an extremely long half-life.

AH HA! That explains it!

Sounds like a pretty normal life... shooting black tar and meth... i take that back though. i don't have any idea what your life is like. maybe it really rules all the time, like when rock stars do drugs. you might consider methadone bc your doctor cut you off of oxy, and you don't want to have to steal from people or whatever to support a daily illicit drug habit. or have to worry about withdawal. or any number of reasons... i'm sure you can read about methadone online somewhere.

I could masturbate to a magazine too ... but when I have the supermodel in front of me, that idea seems rather ... flacid. ;-) I'd rather ask the people who use the drug than read some op ed piece on Wikipedia.

I think a lot of people would probably take issue with your analysis of very down and out addicts as "weak-minded," although that was generally the prevailing school of thought prior to the oxford houses and subsequently, aa, na, etc. i don't think most people with any education in addiction would see it that way currently.

From the age of 12 to 18 I smoked pot, took lsd and meth on a fairly regular basis ... I hit N/A at 18 because I was ready to move on with my life and I knew drugs were no life to live. Its been 22 years (clean with the exception of a 3 year Vicoden addiction in my mid 20s) and I just started in on meth and heroin yet I work normal hours, eat three squares a day and my wife has no idea I'm taking drugs nor do my kids ... I live a normal life ...

I certainly dont judge those who chose to live homeless and addicted - harshley. I merely think there is a lot more going on than an addiction to keep someone in those conditions because life is much more pleasant when it is lived with balance ... work and use drugs occasionally ... dont go balls to the wall unless you want the burn out that happens with that choice ... and if you made that choice and are in the burnout phase, I'll acknowledge your independence in your choice, but I won't accept any responsibility for you, your actions or your incessant need to get high ... that's yours to own and not burden anyone else with. If you can't afford your dope, you can remain homeless and cry about it or you can taper off or quit all together - get your mental life in order, get a job and buy your dope. If someone continues to spiral out of control after that, then they merely have mental problems that need to be dealt with. NOT shunned by any means, but an addict is the last person who will be honest with themselves ... yet society really should foster an environment that encourages just that ... accept addiction and suddenly addicts have a reason to be honest and the real work can commence where change is needed most.

Agree?

bupe=buprenorphine - it's another maintenance/treatment type drug for opiate addiction. kind of like methadone in that sense but it is a partial agonist, there are less restrictions on getting it prescribed w/out visiting some sort of clinic daily. again, TONS of info on this site about it. suboxone, subutex are 2 brands of buprenorphine. it is also used to treat pain in much smaller doses- one brand is temgesic.

Thank You!

Buck

 

[SkagKush]

this thread is pretty derailed

 

[RaveToTheGrave]

I was searching the site and found my old post, I forgot about it, I found a doctor on my insurance I see once monthly, no program or anything, I am prescribed 24mg suboxone, I take 16mg and feel normal, stable and have been switched to klonopin for seizures, it took 2 weeks, but I feel mentally stable, and never sick, methadone perhaps works for people patient enough to get take homes and feel better on it, but subs are really fantastic. Thanks for all the fellow addicts for their insight, honesty and helping me @ a hard time, I felt depressed before the switch of meds, now kpins, lyrica & bupe have given me hope and my life back. I even have a beautiful gf I wouldn't of had a chance had I been unstable and sad as I was.

 

[ATLL765]

I was searching the site and found my old post, I forgot about it, I found a doctor on my insurance I see once monthly, no program or anything, I am prescribed 24mg suboxone, I take 16mg and feel normal, stable and have been switched to klonopin for seizures, it took 2 weeks, but I feel mentally stable, and never sick, methadone perhaps works for people patient enough to get take homes and feel better on it, but subs are really fantastic. Thanks for all the fellow addicts for their insight, honesty and helping me @ a hard time, I felt depressed before the switch of meds, now kpins, lyrica & bupe have given me hope and my life back. I even have a beautiful gf I wouldn't of had a chance had I been unstable and sad as I was.

That's awesome that you're doing so well and props on finding a good looking broad too haha. :D

All I really have to say to this is that you may want to try to taper down to a lower dose of bupe. Many people finding that bupe works much better for them at low doses rather than high doses like you're taking now. It's completely up to you, but bupe is a really strong drug and taking that much is just trading one addiction for one that may be a whole lot harder to get off at that kind of dose. I would suggest finding the suboxone megathread and reading in there about tapering to a lower dose and all that. It'll be for the best if you get yourself down to the lowest dose that will hold you and keep you from getting sick.