Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[DkBlaze1]

yo so I just got a letter from my sub doc I missed 2 things in a row there talking about droping me how much does this sound like there drug pushers.. cuz i called them before the miss and after and have an appointment with them on money... They sent the letter telling me About the possible drop On a friday. and said if I dont come in before monday the possible drop will happen. My clinic is totally fucked... I told them I was sick the first time they make me reschduel I miss that but called in... AND I SHOULD ONLY have to go once a month but since Im on Subutex they want me to come bi weekly its bullshit 7 months in the program and now there pulling this cuz there anwsering service didnt give them my messege 2nd time this has happened too... now I know its just gonna b an arguement and prolly some probationary period were they make me come more often and get more money from me... What a racket... my doc tor is fucked

 

[jamesBrown]

yo so I just got a letter from my sub doc I missed 2 things in a row there talking about droping me how much does this sound like there drug pushers.. cuz i called them before the miss and after and have an appointment with them on money... They sent the letter telling me About the possible drop On a friday. and said if I dont come in before monday the possible drop will happen. My clinic is totally fucked... I told them I was sick the first time they make me reschduel I miss that but called in... AND I SHOULD ONLY have to go once a month but since Im on Subutex they want me to come bi weekly its bullshit 7 months in the program and now there pulling this cuz there anwsering service didnt give them my messege 2nd time this has happened too... now I know its just gonna b an arguement and prolly some probationary period were they make me come more often and get more money from me... What a racket... my doc tor is fucked

Once again, no offense but I had a hard time deciphering what you wrote. but I think i got a pretty good idea of your predicament. My reccommendation to you is to NOT start an argument. And if THEY try to argue(which I doubt they will) just act respectful and do your best to go along with what they say. I think this will be your best bet at staying in the program and not having to worry about finding another sub doctor before you get sick from withdrawals. Also, if you DO end up having to find another sub doc, they will probably start you on suboxone, and you say that the nalaxone causes horrible side effects, so I doubt you wanna go through that again.

Sometimes life just isnt fair and you just gotta do the best you can to make sure you dont get completely fucked. It sounds to me like you still have an opportunity to salvage this situation so I would do my best to concentrate on how to do that. Just be respectful, and apologize for the misunderstanding even if it WAS there fault. That doesnt really matter whose fault it was, what matters is that the doctors are the ones in charge, and they have the power to kick you out of there program.

 

[jamesBrown]

I think you should calm down first of all. Your not really asking any questions here, so ranting and cussing and yelling about how your gonna screw your doctors over is not gonna make the mods any more likely to allow you to continue posting like this.

Like I said in my last post. Calm down and think about what is the right course of action here that will benefit you the most. If you think really hard about that while you are able to stay calm at the same time, I hope you will come to the conclusion that freaking out and trying to get your doctors in trouble with the "Board of Psychology" is in no way going to benefit you. First of all, I highly doubt you will be effective at all in "getting your doctors in trouble". Im sure MANY MANY doctors get reported by patients like you, and for the most part those "reports" are ignored, because it is very easy for a patient to get pissed but its very hard to discredit a doctor who has spent a quarter of his/her life in medical school and who runs a credible medical practice.

You need to try to work this out with your doctor the best you can, even if it means you apologizing for the miscommunication like I said earlier. Remember, it doesnt matter whose fault it is, it only matters who has the power in this situation....and that is most definitely the doctor. Its unfortunate, but thats just the way our system works.

Please, for your sake, treat your doctors with respect and do your best to talk it out with them so you can get back on track with your treatment as soon as possible.

You shouldnt let something like this completely derail you from your maintanence. Like you said, you were doing so good with the subutex and staying clean, why throw that all away just because some doctor didnt get your message and is now pissing you off? Its not worth it. This is life. And life isnt fair, so when shit happens, you just need to "roll with it" and try hard to come out on top when its all over. I would hate to see you get kicked out of your subutex program.....that would put you at a much higher risk of relapsing and I dont want that to happen, and I dont think you do either.

 

[Jabberwocky]

those people getting ina huff, just take a breath, relax. be nice to each other

 

[DkBlaze1]

ya sorry about that again.. Pretty much the doctors that I get my subs from, are dirty and I can ask them for w.e and as long as I will start going more often they will give it. my freind at this place is at the max dose of Xannx a day 8 mg and 24 mg of subs.. and who knows what else... Pretty much i was heated because I am the model student at school, and Am becoming someone who is now leading groups. I E peer leadship groups teaching people to get sober who have just entered drug court... and in my post that i deleted I wasnt talking badly to anyone, at all just my doctors.

the fact is My doctor is supper dirty and its pretty well known, people who work for the same hospital at diffrent satilites talk about it ect. But I also have documented things they have done and such and if they do choose to drop me I will let it be know to the board. these things are not going to just be over looked because I would never come at it like I did in the post and I also would have backing from many people.. even folks with in the clinic.... any way, this point doesn't really matter cuz i could b a lier and it just doesn't matter anyway ... but the fact is I feel like james brown loves to argue and try to one up people all day ... news FLash your not a doctor, you might b fairly smart but its not like you got some amazing ability where all you say is right... you talk like the things u say are facts ... in effect they are not you have not once said something to get back to me that doesnt try to b a cutting remark in some tiny way but it is still always a small little try to say ur smarter ect and you do it to everyone .. u try to tell me Im wrong about naloxone... eh w/e enough said im done... Pretty much im done reading ur posts and since u think im such a dumb ass just stop reading mine ... its very easy just see my user name and skip it.
you got 14 posts a day and i bet 90% of them have some sorta arguement in them proving people wrong and telling them that they should believe you..................it just is telling to me that you think ur opion is ultra smart and super importent haha .... sorry to cut but thats some shit... 14 a day and ur not a moderator...,.

 

[Znegative]

back to the topic of the "sweet spot" where I.V buprenorphine is the best, IMO, .2 AND .5 feel pretty much exactly the same, just the .2 wont last as long if you've been doing .5 mg shots. I think once your at the point where you've managed to shoot only a total of 1 mg or les per day for a few weeks, that's when bupe starts to get more euphoric. It's not like if your shooting 2 mg shots, and decided to shoot a .5 mg shot, your going to now experience some awsome euphoria.

speaking of shooting subs, since school started exactly 1 month ago, I'd been doing about 2mg shots 4x a day. It was overkill, but when I switched to shooting I was SL 24 mg a day and I really didn't feel like tapering while I was adjusting to my new college. So the first week of college I spent a few days with friends shooting speedballs.

Day 1: felt mostly the coke, slightly euphoric afterwards though, no rough come down.

Day 2: Did two bag shot, and then a on bag shot with some crack thrown in, and was high as hell, seriously nodding out for 12 hours or so, like I'd never done heroin before. that's the kind of effec t I got.

It was seriously surprising. I continued to do heroin for a few more days, but decided that i wanted to ease up on it because I didn't want to start off my college in full junky mode. ANYWAY, earlier this week, I met up with my xanax dealer who also threw me bag of dope. It'd been been about two week since I stopped using heroin, and switched over to shooting about 8 mg of suboxone per day. At the time that I prepped the bag my dealer gave me, I had done my last 2 mg shot maybe 3 hours earlier. So I shot the bag, and yes, I felt it. It wasn't all there of course, butI was high enough to find my self nodding at several points.

The next day I felt ashamed of going back to dope, so to ensure that I wouldn't get high, I shot approx. 16 mg of suboxone throughout the day. Then, the day after, I copped two bags, and did the first about 9 hours after my last 2-3 mg shot, and I totally felt it. Then in the morning I did another shot, and it felt again like I had never been on suboxone. since then I stole enough money to get a bundle and have been getting high . In fact I keep finding myself nodding while I'm writing this, and I've just had two cups of coffee too.

This post is getting long, so I'll wrap it up. I've been hearing that when you I.V suboxone it changes the way that it binds to proteins in your body, which somehow explains why you can get high on full agonists quicker then if you were SL suboxone. Can someone try to explain this to me? I'm starting to feel that when you shoot suboxone at higher doses even, it's just more like a shitty opioid with mild blocking effects that last max of about 12 hrs.

 

[cballhp]

If your talking about IV'ing suboxone, then no, do not heat the solution. That will just dissolve more inactives/binders into the solution that could potentially cause harm.

And if you dont have a micron filter, your next best bet would probably be to fill a needle up to about 30 units full of compacted cotton, and coffee filters. And then you can filter your solution through that needle. It usually comes out MUCH clearer than if you simply filtered through a cotton on a spoon. If you need more details about how to do this correctly, feel free to ask. but if you want, it has been discussed many times on BL so you could search for it and find more details that way as well.

Thanks again James. I think I got it. Pack it with the cotton/coffee filter then draw up through that, then should be much clearer, then bump-enjoy!

Thanks again, gonna try this tomorrow.

 

[jamesBrown]

ya sorry about that again.. Pretty much the doctors that I get my subs from, are dirty and I can ask them for w.e and as long as I will start going more often they will give it. my freind at this place is at the max dose of Xannx a day 8 mg and 24 mg of subs.. and who knows what else... Pretty much i was heated because I am the model student at school, and Am becoming someone who is now leading groups. I E peer leadship groups teaching people to get sober who have just entered drug court... and in my post that i deleted I wasnt talking badly to anyone, at all just my doctors.

the fact is My doctor is supper dirty and its pretty well known, people who work for the same hospital at diffrent satilites talk about it ect. But I also have documented things they have done and such and if they do choose to drop me I will let it be know to the board. these things are not going to just be over looked because I would never come at it like I did in the post and I also would have backing from many people.. even folks with in the clinic.... any way, this point doesn't really matter cuz i could b a lier and it just doesn't matter anyway ... but the fact is I feel like james brown loves to argue and try to one up people all day ... news FLash your not a doctor, you might b fairly smart but its not like you got some amazing ability where all you say is right... you talk like the things u say are facts ... in effect they are not you have not once said something to get back to me that doesnt try to b a cutting remark in some tiny way but it is still always a small little try to say ur smarter ect and you do it to everyone .. u try to tell me Im wrong about naloxone... eh w/e enough said im done... Pretty much im done reading ur posts and since u think im such a dumb ass just stop reading mine ... its very easy just see my user name and skip it.
you got 14 posts a day and i bet 90% of them have some sorta arguement in them proving people wrong and telling them that they should believe you..................it just is telling to me that you think ur opion is ultra smart and super importent haha .... sorry to cut but thats some shit... 14 a day and ur not a moderator...,.

Dude?...what the hell are you talking about?.....i spent like 2 hr's last night typing those messages to you so I could HELP you. I was trying to be as nice and calm as I coulp ossibly be and I was trying to give you advice so you could stay in the program. Where the hell did you get the idea that I was trying to talk down to you?/?

You got on BL and started ranting about your doctors and about how you wrere gonna report them, etc, etc, etc....and I was trying to calm you down and get you to focus on what would benefit YOU the most. Why are you telling me im treating you badly? That actually hurts man...the only reason I spent so fucking long last night typing those long ass posts in response to yours is because I didnt want you getting kicked out of your program and ending up doing drugs again. I HAVE NO IDEA why you are mad at me. Seroiously.....can you quote me even one sentece out of what I said that that is disrespectful? You cant because the only thought in my mind when I was typing that shit was trying to calm you down so I could help you help help yourself.

I still have no idea where you get off treating me like I was being rude to you. I literally decided not to go see a movie with my fucking family so I could try to help you....and now I wake up this morning and I found out youve been tlaking shit about me for trying to help you??? That is REDICULOUS......I dont evenn care if you dont want to read my posts anymore, obviously your fucking crazy or soemthign because I did my best trying to keep you clean and keep you in yourr program, and you treat me like I was talking shit to you...not only do you need to learn how to type, but you need to learn how to read.....I WAS HELPING YOU!!!!! If you dont like my opinions, than tell me thanx but no thanx and you will choose to do whatever you wanna do....why treat me as if what i said was derogatory and rude?? Once again,.......I CHOSE TO HELP YOU INSTEAD OF SPENDING TIME WITH MY OWN FUCKING FAMILY!!.......why treat me like this man?

 

[jamesBrown]

judging bye how he is misspelling and being rude when you are just trying to help him maybe he was drunk? No excuse for being an ass but that was my first thought....

I know what you mean....its just I believe that people make mistakes because thats what humans do. And im hoping he will see that he was being comopletely rediculous. You know, this is the very first time where something someone has said to me on BL has actualy hurt me. I dont mean like im crying or any shit like that, its just I was honestly trying to help him and I spent time trying to do that instead of being with my family, hoping that he will make the right choice for himself so he can stay clean....and he just acts as if I was talking shit to him. I am completely baffled as to why hes pissed.

i mean, do you guys see what I did wrong?

 

[Drifter74]

I just dont understand why he thought I was being rude or argumentative?....where did I say I thought I was a doctor or that I thought everything I said was right??

I uderstand where your coming from Drifter, and I mean no offense, but I just happened to like DKblaze1 and only wanted to help him....thats all. I really didnt care that he couldnt type well.

No offense taken whatsoever. I think most everybody here wants to help. I know I do, and it's QUITE obvious you do. The spelling and grammar is just something that makes it a little bit more time consuming to do, so he should really, really appreciate the time you do spend trying to help.

My opinion is honestly based on what he IS saying, not how he's saying it. It's just that when you combine the two it makes ME want to "skip the brown."

However, I can tell you why he is acting the way he does. He has a MAJOR problem with any type of authority (and facts, apparently) and you're telling him things he just doesn't want to hear - which makes him mad and causes him to act out.

Eventually he's going to figure out that he'll NEVER beat the system and when he does he's going to be a different person. Until then he's just going to be a rambling idiot blaming everybody else for his own choices and problems.

This really needs to stop though.

 

[cballhp]

I know what you mean....its just I believe that people make mistakes because thats what humans do. And im hoping he will see that he was being comopletely rediculous. You know, this is the very first time where something someone has said to me on BL has actualy hurt me. I dont mean like im crying or any shit like that, its just I was honestly trying to help him and I spent time trying to do that instead of being with my family, hoping that he will make the right choice for himself so he can stay clean....and he just acts as if I was talking shit to him. I am completely baffled as to why hes pissed.

i mean, do you guys see what I did wrong?

It seems to me that you where just trying to help and he misplaced his anger at his clinic and doctor towards you. I see nothing wrong in what you did. Some people just have anger issues and coping trouble and end up building up anger and letting it out on the wrong people, he may be that type.

 

[SkagKush]

agreed, good job james, sorry about the DB's.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What would be a good starter dose to IV if 16mg daily sublingual is the maintenance dose? Also being that IV is 100% BA and Sublingual anywhere from 13-30% is it safe to assume that the dose needed to maintain using IV ROA will be up to 80% less?

Try tapering down with the sublingual ROA first before switching over.

If you don't have micron filters then I would get them and the supplies you need.

If you are going to do this anyways, 0.5mg is a good place to start, I wouldn't exceed 1mg (that is if you are not going to taper sublingually first). If you do taper with the sublingual ROA, 0.5mg is a good place to start out with and I wouldn't do anything above that.

Thanks James and Homey appreciate it.

Few more questions though, I have seen it mentioned before about micron filters but I do not have those nor am I able to get any right now so what is a good way to filter it and do I need to heat it up at all like one would with some H?

JB explained how to use compacted cotton, that's what I would do if you are going to do this anyways.

Micron filtering is ideal though.

hmm im curious, since it says that buprenorphine is slightly soluble in water approximatley 17mg/ml, when you filter it with cotton would it stay in the cotton or would it pass right through?

It would pass right through. Water solubility is a relative thing. 17mg/mL is poor solubility, but since buprenorphine is inherently potent, 17mg/mL is an *extremely* concentrated solution.

Can anyone tell me at What dose does lowering Your bupe dose stop getting you more euphoria.

Good question. I am down to 26 mcg per shot and I'm not sure at all. My current theory on this is that it's relative to your mu-opiate receptors and endorphins... but as long as you are "normal" in that department (not deficient in endorphins, and not up-regulated receptors) I think you could probably keep going lower and lower, is there a point where you won't get the same positive effects? Maybe, I really don't know and I wish I did.

 

[SkagKush]

Well all, Ive been on bupe for about three weeks now.... This is the longest i have gone without down for two damn years. im feeling great, and im sleeping and eating. life is better with the girlfriend. i was about to be broke from my habit, stopped (with subs) and still have been able to pay the bills, only working once or twice a week in construction. and today i got a job thats full time hopefully! also i can actually work, because im not all faded or doped out.

life is slowly getting better friends.....

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Well all, Ive been on bupe for about three weeks now.... This is the longest i have gone without down for two damn years. im feeling great, and im sleeping and eating. life is better with the girlfriend. i was about to be broke from my habit, stopped (with subs) and still have been able to pay the bills, only working once or twice a week in construction. and today i got a job thats full time hopefully! also i can actually work, because im not all faded or doped out.

life is slowly getting better friends.....

Congratulations man! Recovery and being back on your feet again is what it's all about.

 

[SkagKush]

thank you captain! i am curious for the future.

 

[jamesBrown]

good work skag. may i ask what dose you are currently taking?

 

[DkBlaze1]

Thanks for posting in brown so I know which posts to skip..

Trying to decipher them gives me a headache.

yo If you can't READ the post, at the start of the thread about my thoughts on naloxone. then my buddy its you, that shit shouldnt b hard to read... other posts of mine very possible. but normaly while posting im a little outa it to say the very least... I can't really get into the whole Talking drug drug drug drug drug.. unless I am a lil nice... so ya Im happy u dont have to read my posts as well with a great disposition u show. ur comment is 100 % not needed...

 

[ThePharmicist]

Fucking a.

So I was only able to stay back on my Suboxone for one day before I decided to go out and score again. I need to keep myself off of dope, but it's really fucking hard - and Suboxone just doesn't do it for me. I was doing so well on it until I got involved with the dope, I was clean for over a year (excluding Suboxone of course). Now I know I gotta switch back to Subs, but the compulsion to use just rules over me.

I gotta break these chains soon, otherwise I'm gonna be broke.

 

[stray cat]

here's a quick question for which i'm not quite sure about the answer:

background knowledge that needs no explanation
i know if you're addicted to an opiate and u take sub too soon, you risk p/w/d. i know after u take sub, u can do the other opiate, but u won't really feel it for a while or you'll feel it less or whatever.

the question

suppose you get off your sub and go on like a 2-week 160/day oc bender. it's time to quit again. you wait the requisite amount of time, take a mg or so (let's say on thursday) and you're good for a day or 2. then you take like .5-1mg (friday), then you're cool again until a couple days later (sunday) and u take about .5-1mg. today is monday. the last time you did sub was yesterday afternoon, and u just found one last 40 in your desk. you don't want to break the sub cycle and get back on oc; however you're not going to just throw this thing away, especially since they don't really make them anymore. if you want to do sub tonight, but you also want to feel this last oc, should you do it now before you do sub and will u be cool to do sub tonight w/out the risk of p/w/d, OR will you have to wait another 24 hours after this slip-up to avoid p/w/d and maybe should u just take sub first and hope u can feel the oxy a little bit afterwards?

i hope that wasn't too difficult to follow... basically, i got back on sub a couple days ago; i haven't done it yet today; i found a 40 in my desk - can i do it now and do sub later or will i potentially get precipitated withdrawals? Or should i wait and take it after the sub and hope maybe since i take such small amounts that i'll still feel it a little?

Any answers or opinions appreciated, except those telling me to just get rid of it, throw it away, etc., bc it's the only one i have, i already have it, i'm not getting anymore, and i plan on doing it.