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Real raves (for clarification in the USA "rave" refers to giant commerical shitfests)

lol i didnt even read this thread, US v Europe debate in ANYTHING is soooo overdone on the internet

gayness

both have good and bad bits, as rodney said after the racist american cops whooped his black ass "cant we alll just get along??"
 
I love a good argument me.

I have pretty much no idea on the detailed subject matter, but there were some great moments there both of you AmsterTram and Ghostface - great stuff %)
 
I didn't even realize people thought it mattered that much where a genre sprouted from.

Just listen and enjoy it!

@Ghostface
"Tiesto also gets paid to play all over the world. What does that mean?"

That's called commercialism.
 
I think we all need to dress up in enormous baggy t-shirts, drop some rhubarb and custards then go mental in a disused scout hut while the DJ plays kraftwerk and public enemy at plus 8 because there are not yet enough actual acid house records in existence to fill a night.

This is how it ran judging by Soul All Dayer of The Century. Fuck I wish I hadn't been ten at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZmEmweLnrk

PS I have two copies on vinyl
PPS Tiesto's atrocious
 
Hehehe . Stop coining tracks with a genre and that problem is solved ;)! These days I just use an umbrella term: Acid.

Generally speaking :)

Anyway this is acid house (in my opinion/afaik)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pwtXAezE2o
Opus 303 - le mystere. It's insane what feeling I get listening to this track...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcN2ZnpFmVQ
Air liquide (aka walker) my personal hero ;)

Post some tracks peeps :>

WOOP WOOP
Small acid party (free) tommorow (well today; 0;29)

Metacid Live (DJ Carbo & David Gneo) Braincrashed rec, Acidarea, the Zoo

Acid Resistance (Lowani vs Hoffmann) Dutch Resistance vs Bloody Bastards on Acid

Phos & Vibro-B (Nino & Birger)

Acid Call residents T-9 & Gonzo

Cheap prices, great location, bleeping and banging soundsystem and acidic lightshow.
No vestiaire.

Greetz & bleepz from the Acid CallCrew!
 
Rasclatt said:
erm didnt you know acid house was invented in Bombay in 1982 (5 years before Acid trax) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUqnPYwoiF4

durr
Click to expand...

Yes but noone really knew about that did they.
The difference with the guy from Bombay was he wasn't using a 303 on an existing style, particularly jacking house music as played by Ron Hardy at the music box.
This is how Pierre differed from the obscure synthesizer experimentalists.
It was about the highly musical application of that flexible bass line into an already existing musical structure.
The Americans invented acid, let's be clear. They gave that boy life, but us Europeans turned him into a man, without us he may have never seen adulthood, we turned into the king of the parties, the guy who sends everyone into wild delirium at the drop of a hi-hat.
You cannot separate acid house from Europe because we heard what these black americans were making and it made our asses shake. The rest of America they probably considered it nigger music, and carried on listening to the good ole boys, whereas we never really saw the difference, black americans were just americans to us, that these artists were black to us didn't matter, we're not racist and we didn't have the division that existed in the US.
We appreciated black musicians over here without question, colour was never an issue, and so for that reason we actively sought out the very newest, the very freshest black american music.
The same thing happened with Techno, it was still a small local scene until Derrick May came to Europe, and we defined the genre and made it a global phenomenon.
Their has long been a mutual appreciation society between black Americans and white europeans.
 
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blauwelichten said:
Yes but noone really knew about that did they.
The difference with the guy from Bombay was he wasn't using a 303 on an existing style, particularly jacking house music as played by Ron Hardy at the music box.
This is how Pierre differed from the obscure synthesizer experimentalists.
It was about the highly musical application of that flexible bass line into an already existing musical structure.
The Americans invented acid, let's be clear. They gave that boy life, but us Europeans turned him into a man, without us he may have never seen adulthood, we turned into the king of the parties, the guy who sends everyone into wild delirium at the drop of a hi-hat.
You cannot separate acid house from Europe because we heard what these black americans were making and it made our asses shake. The rest of America they probably considered it nigger music, and carried on listening to the good ole boys, whereas we never really saw the difference, black americans were just americans to us, that these artists were black to us didn't matter, we're not racist and we didn't have the division that existed in the US.
We appreciated black musicians over here without question, colour was never an issue, and so for that reason we actively sought out the very newest, the very freshest black american music.
The same thing happened with Techno, it was still a small local scene until Derrick May came to Europe, and we defined the genre and made it a global phenomenon.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I don't agree with all you wrote but a lot of it.

Actually, Americans considered house fag music, not n. music. In fact, the vast majority of black American never embraced house, calling it fag music. And they see techno as white/drug music. The truth is hip hop is what killed house music in the US, most black audiences abandoned house when hip hop hit....

Its nice what you said that Europeans are not racist, but a bit naive. Europe has always taken and enjoyed black music without prejudice while being extremely racist towards their own blacks or arabs, no?

No doubt, Europe made acid and techno blow up, mad respect for that! Deephouse I think has always had its home in the US though.
 
AmsterTram said:
Europe has always taken and enjoyed black music without prejudice while being extremely racist towards their own blacks or arabs, no?
Click to expand...
I'll agree with this, but the level of racism in (most) of Europe has never been on the same level as it was in the USA. Racism sadly existed (and still does), but the Americans took it to an extreme.
 
ashtray girl said:
I'll agree with this, but the level of racism in (most) of Europe has never been on the same level as it was in the USA. Racism sadly existed (and still does), but the Americans took it to an extreme.
Click to expand...

Not really in the mood to turn this into a racism thread but what exactly do you call the Holocaust?

Yes, the US took it to the extreme but we are fixing it in ways Europe has not. Black people are in all levels of power in the US now, affirmative action has helped establish parity in education, etc....

I see little evidence that that in Europe, especially here towards Arabs and in France towards Arabs and blacks.
 
Yes the holocaust was and is bad, no denying that. But one country does not Europe make.

The European settlers implemented a policy of racism from the beginning doing their best to wipe out the indigenous population of North America. The USA had a system of segregation like almost no other country in the western world, which is still going on today (albeit not to the same level).

The racist history of Europe is disgusting, but lets be frank, it is barely a blot when compared to what has occurred in the very short time the USA has existed.

And this isn't a USA vs Europe thing - this is a "racism is disgusting and should be wiped out worldwide" thing. Especially with the growing power of the right-wing across Europe.
 
ashtray girl said:
I'll agree with this, but the level of racism in (most) of Europe has never been on the same level as it was in the USA. Racism sadly existed (and still does), but the Americans took it to an extreme.
Click to expand...

We never had the division that the black people suffered in America.
Yes the British class system was, by its very definition, a racist institution.
The society may have been racist but the majority of the people weren't, Britain was the most culturally diverse country in Europe, and to be fair to the British people they have embraced other cultures, but not just that, but allowed them to retain their previous identity. I think thats definitely reflected in the musical styles that come from the two countries, the Americans created rock and roll, they created hip-hop, funk, disco, they created house, techno. They are an incredibly creative nation, and I think this comes from not having a history of their own and having to create their own culture. If you consider music a valid artistic endeavour, in the last forty years the americans have made a massive contribution to, todays culture, tomorrows art history, inventing all sorts of musical styles along the way. Soul Music, Motown, Staxx - brand new musical styles influenced by but completely different from what came before. House music the same, techno the same. Europeans, and particularly the British have taken these musical styles and thrown them into a melting-pot of afro-carribean, asian and european styles and twisted them and tweaked them and given them new life with elements of history from this cultural hotbed that exists in society. The British took the techno sounds from america, the nu-beat sounds of Belgium and the reggae sounds of Tottenham , Camden, Brixton and Ladbroke Grove and created Drum and Bass, Speed Garage, and Dubstep. Could Basement Jaxx have made their highly distinctive afro-carribean influenced music, without living in Caberwell/Brixton. The Italians took disco and krautrock and created italo-disco. Unlike the black communities in the US, we arent looking to create a new identity, so we will happily extend what already exists. I believe with that struggle for identity and acceptance comes invention, thats why the black community have produced such great music in recent times. And I believe their contribution will be highly valued in future history. Out of struggle comes great art.
 
ashtray girl said:
And this isn't a USA vs Europe thing - this is a "racism is disgusting and should be wiped out worldwide" thing.
Click to expand...

Racism is unintelligent and anti-intellectual. Great things come from combination. We learn from shared knowledge, we develop a social psyche through shared experience, we survive by mixing our genes, the bigger the gene pool the stronger we become. Science has progressed most rapidly when mostly homogenous disciplines have influenced one another. To divide, to restrict is really anti-intellectual. To divide on colour of skin is really utterly fucking ridiculous, and its really is anti-progressive. It's anti-human. It's born of fear.
 
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AmsterTram said:
Not really in the mood to turn this into a racism thread but what exactly do you call the Holocaust?

Yes, the US took it to the extreme but we are fixing it in ways Europe has not. Black people are in all levels of power in the US now, affirmative action has helped establish parity in education, etc....

I see little evidence that that in Europe, especially here towards Arabs and in France towards Arabs and blacks.
Click to expand...

Youre generalising of course, blacks today have little problem in Germany or the UK, yes in certain countries there are issues and flashpoints, we arent exclusive, we share the same kind of social problems as yourselves. As I mentioned, we didnt have the same kind of division, the blacks over here didnt have to fight quite so hard to get acceptance from "the people", maybe its just because slavery is a more distant memory. But if I was a black american today, the thought of how my ancestors were treated, and that because of their struggle I was alive, and how badly they were treated, would cut me through the heart, it would hurt so badly that I would struggle not to hate white Americans. While things have changed and the American dream is now available to blacks and whites, probably all races and colours, I dont think the playing field is absolutely level for a lot of them e.g. those living in the projects etc. that also applies probably just as equally to the hispanics and the asians today, but they werent slaves, they werent forced to go to America, and live under an utterly cruel, evil regime, that treated them as sub-human and then refused to accept them as equal human beings until very very recently. There is another thread on here, about some furore about a radio shock jock using the word nigger, why cant white Americans call black Americans nigger, if you cant work it out, if you think history just gets forgotten when you say sorry and behave differently, then you really arent seeing the history of these people from their perspective, and given the outright evil that slavery was, I really think white Americans never ever utter that word ever in the presence of a black person, because it is a word that represents cruelty, its truly utterly disrespectul. If you cant understand that black people use that word in an ironic way, then its really true white americans dont get irony, but the black folks over there most certainly do.

The great thing about house music, is it has no truck with that it is a uniting force, a global social movement with the lines redrawn, on a completely level playing field. Long may it last. It makes me happy :) long live house.
 
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blauwelichten said:
Youre generalising of course, blacks today have little problem in Germany or the UK, yes in certain countries there are issues and flashpoints, we arent exclusive, we share the same kind of social problems as yourselves. As I mentioned, we didnt have the same kind of division, the blacks over here didnt have to fight quite so hard to get acceptance from "the people", maybe its just because slavery is a more distant memory. But if I was a black american today, the thought of how my ancestors were treated, and that because of their struggle I was alive, and how badly they were treated, would cut me through the heart, it would hurt so badly that I would struggle not to hate white Americans. While things have changed and the American dream is now available to blacks and whites, probably all races and colours, I dont think the playing field is absolutely level for a lot of them e.g. those living in the projects etc. that also applies probably just as equally to the hispanics and the asians today, but they werent slaves, they werent forced to go to America, and live under an utterly cruel, evil regime, that treated them as sub-human and then refused to accept them as equal human beings until very very recently. There is another thread on here, about some furore about a radio shock jock using the word nigger, why cant white Americans call black Americans nigger, if you cant work it out, if you think history just gets forgotten when you say sorry and behave differently, then you really arent seeing the history of these people from their perspective, and given the outright evil that slavery was, I really think white Americans never ever utter that word ever in the presence of a black person, because it is a word that represents cruelty, its truly utterly disrespectul. If you cant understand that black people use that word in an ironic way, then its really true white americans dont get irony, but the black folks over there most certainly do.

The great thing about house music, is it has no truck with that it is a uniting force, a global social movement with the lines redrawn, on a completely level playing field. Long may it last. It makes me happy :) long live house.
Click to expand...


Long live house indeed! Certainly its not purrfect but and at many levels it breaks down (racial) barriers, I know it did for me. Until I got into deep house in the US, I was simply not used to spending lots of time in majority black environments.

Lots of good stuff to read here, thanks.

By the way, I know for a fact that Francois K and Marshall Jefferson checked in on this thread %)%)
 
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