Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[Znegative]

I've always wondered about a situation like this.

Living in pain V. Possible relapse, I'm not sure what I would take if I had been clean for a while, but to someone that truly does suffer from chronic pain, I think that it is inhumane to deny them the proper medication that will most effectively ease their suffering even if he/she has a past history with opioid addiction. I'm not familiar with many other types of pain management meds that are not opioids or opiates, but from what I hear, they are not relieving enough, or obviously, all these highly addictive meds would be out of here a long time ago.

 

[SubDude]

I just skimmed thru V9 and didn't see anyone mention that the Subs doc over at SubTalkzone is also a recovering addict and is on subs himself. I know this is true from personal contact with him and I also believe he makes this known in his blog/forum. So if any subs md can be trusted... and considered an "authority", this is the one! Take what he says seriously.

BTW... No one is perceived as completely consistant in everything said... especially when two different statements are taken out of context. I would strongly advise any and all BL's who want a 2nd opinion on something questionable said here... [about buprenorphine and/or suboxone] to try those people. His Mods are all fairly knowledgable and the doc frequently jumps in with his thoughts on inaccurate information

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Do you guys think a bupe doctor would prescribe Tramadol alongside the Suboxone? If anything causes me to relapse it is the chronic pain I suffer from, and Tramadol helps immensely, even if it is kind of addictive.

Yeah, some Suboxone doctors would prescribe Tramadol.

All you have to do is ask.

^there's really no way for us to predict what your sub doc will prescribe. Some dub docs only want to treat the addiction issues, some will be willing to treat other conditions (sometimes only psychiatric), some will have lenient Rx-ing policies and some won't.

You just need to advocate for yourself and whether with this doctor or another, push to get adequate treatment or it could have very detrimental effects on your sobriety and quality of life.

This is the best answer to your question.

this leads me to believe that bupe is unable to block the effects of tramadol.

That's not true though. Buprenorphine can block any other full agonist opiate, you just have to be on a high enough dose for all of your receptors to be filled with buprenorphine.

You can take any full agonist you want after taking buprenorphine, and it will be absorbed by the remaining receptors. People on Bluelight just don't do this simply because they want to get maximum effects out of their full agonist opiates.

 

[Ricochet2049]

Yeah, I'll definatley ask him about it. The reason being is that my usual doctor was at a clinic, which can potentially take 2-3 months to get into. She would have no problem prescribing the Tramadol to me, but that's a long ass time to wait. This Bupe doctor is a regular family doctor, as well.

I know the doctors point of view jamesBrown, that's why I asked if a suboxone doctor would be open to prescribing it, since it's a decent painkiller that actually works with Suboxone, unlike most other prescription pain medicines.

I so wish that I didn't have to take Tramadol, as the Suboxone works beautifully to keep cravings down for the other stronger opiates, I've thought about using the stronger opiates, but that was mainly when my pain flared back up really badly. On a normal day, when my pain is at a normal level, I don't even think about Hydrocodone or Oxycodone, I just take a couple Tramadol, and it eases the pain a good bit.

If I was in the doctors shoes, the benefit of the Tramadol would outweigh the possibility of a relapse IMO.

 

[jamesBrown]

That's not true though. Buprenorphine can block any other full agonist opiate, you just have to be on a high enough dose for all of your receptors to be filled with buprenorphine.

You can take any full agonist you want after taking buprenorphine, and it will be absorbed by the remaining receptors. People on Bluelight just don't do this simply because they want to get maximum effects out of their full agonist opiates.

How do you explain the posts I linked to in my above post??

Many people said that the bupe didnt stop the opiate effects of the tramdol for them.

Many people posted about how they took doses upwards of 12 mg's of suboxone and then took tramadol, and then felt high like they had done dope.....

"so I had a few boxes of Tramadol about from past attemps at rehab and I just wondered how that would feel in conjunction with the Subutex/Suboxone I'm taking daily for my H issues ... well my friends , let me tell you out of personal experience that the antagonist present in Suboxone does nothing whatsoever to block the effects of Tramadol ... very convenient really since I'm an addict and addicts tend to seek the buzz everywhere everytime so ... at the end I felt a nice buzz from such combo (quite different from the buzz you get from opiates such as Morphine ,Oxys and H but still quite satisfactory) which allowed me to enjoy my day at hand without the general discomfort I usually feel when clean/sober ... "lesser of two evils"

 

[stray cat]

also, i thought that you could take buprenorphine shortly after tramadol w/out risking precipitated withdrawals, which makes it seem like it affects people differently than other opiate/opiate-like drugs in tandem w/ buprenorphine

 

[Ricochet2049]

Tramadol definately does work while on Suboxone, but it isn't as strong as it would be by itself (with no suboxone). It may mainly be the SNRI effects and other effects Tramadol has going on which relieves the pain so well.

 

[DkBlaze1]

I just skimmed thru V9 and didn't see anyone mention that the Subs doc over at SubTalkzone is also a recovering addict and is on subs himself. I know this is true from personal contact with him and I also believe he makes this known in his blog/forum. So if any subs md can be trusted... and considered an "authority", this is the one! Take what he says seriously.

BTW... No one is perceived as completely consistant in everything said... especially when two different statements are taken out of context. I would strongly advise any and all BL's who want a 2nd opinion on something questionable said here... [about buprenorphine and/or suboxone] to try those people. His Mods are all fairly knowledgable and the doc frequently jumps in with his thoughts on inaccurate information

Ya bro The thing i posted WAs talking about that doctor Look at the end of the V 8 mega thread ... And you.ll see we were talking about that docotor and I said pretty much what u just did and then peole told me I was wrong Ect And I then posted what I did on this Version

 

[jamesBrown]

Tramadol definately does work while on Suboxone, but it isn't as strong as it would be by itself (with no suboxone). It may mainly be the SNRI effects and other effects Tramadol has going on which relieves the pain so well.

from what ive read, it seems to me that the opiate-like effects of the tramadol are still felt because many people claim to feel like they have shot up dope after mixing the two drugs(bupe and tram). I wouldnt think that the SNRI effects of the tramadol would cause such euphoria.

 

[DkBlaze1]

so james brown I was also wondering If you agree with me now or not. I made that post all nice and grammaticly correct for you and nice and easy to understand.. I even PM you and now I get nothing back I feel like a slut who just got fucked then droped off at home ?? whats the deal ?

 

[jamesBrown]

Ya bro The thing i posted WAs talking about that doctor Look at the end of the V 8 mega thread ... And you.ll see we were talking about that docotor and I said pretty much what u just did and then peole told me I was wrong Ect And I then posted what I did on this Version

your mistaken man, we werent trying to say you were "wrong"...i personally thought you were simply trying to find an answer to your mysterious issues you had with suboxone and along the way you got alot of mixed information.

I also didnt take the doctors quotes out of context....I said them in the exact same context as he said them, which just so happened to be contradictory....

and im not saying that this means this particular doctor is bad or wrong....everyone makes mistakes. i know i do. ive contradicted myself before. who hasnt. I was making a point thats all.....and just because it doesnt allign up with what you have going on in your brain doesnt mean that were trying to prove you wrong.

 

[jamesBrown]

so james brown I was also wondering If you agree with me now or not. I made that post all nice and grammaticly correct for you and nice and easy to understand.. I even PM you and now I get nothing back I feel like a slut who just got fucked then droped off at home ?? whats the deal ?

agree with you on what exactly?

 

[DkBlaze1]

agree with you on what exactly?

MY rant on Naloxone at the start of this thread. And the reason why its the cause to my sickness ect.. I respect your thoughts and I think you will agree with me once you read it

 

[Captain.Heroin]

How do you explain the posts I linked to in my above post??

Because people aren't taking a large enough dose of Suboxone to block the effects of tramadol, or other opiate agonists. Most people wouldn't find a large dose of Suboxone to be "comfortable".

12mg isn't enough to fully block the effects of opiate agonists, especially in people who are opiate tolerant.

 

[jamesBrown]

I have read ALL your posts and your PM's....and sry i didnt respond immediately I got alot of PM's from different people recently.

I still know that it is a fact that nalaxone has a lesser binding affinity than bupe does.....

but, im open to the idea that maybe nalaxone could "activate" itself somewhere else in the body, causing negetave effects similar to the ones you experienced.....but, I would need to see some medical proof of this to agree with you. otherwise its just speculation with very little evidence.

but to be honest, i still am pretty much in the same mindset i was before you started your argument. I see no scientific evidence that would support your theory that nalaxone is active when taken alongside bupe and causes negative effects for three months(in your situation). Especially since nalaxones half life is only ~1-1.5 hr's.

 

[jamesBrown]

Because people aren't taking a large enough dose of Suboxone to block the effects of tramadol, or other opiate agonists. Most people wouldn't find a large dose of Suboxone to be "comfortable".

12mg isn't enough to fully block the effects of opiate agonists, especially in people who are opiate tolerant.

hmmm, normally I would agree with you, and that is the exact same thing I thought, but after reading these peoples posts, it makes me think otherwise....

I mean....ALOT of people have posted and said that even after only taking 4-8mg's of suboxone, they have to wait atleast 48-72 hr's to even begin to feel the effects of heroin again. Keeping that in mind, it doesnt make much sense that people taking even higher doses of suboxone can feel STRONG("heroin-like") effects when mixing relatively small doses of tramadol at THE SAME TIME as the suboxone. It just doesnt add up.

 

[Paulination]

You don't lose much with cotton filtering. There's no need to do it more than 2 or 3 times though, that should be effective.

The only thing you need to do if you haven't already is find a preservative for the solution, so it will keep over time.

I guess from now on ill only do it a couple times. how much bupe do you think you lose micron filtering? and cotton filtering? does the bupe just go through the cotton and micron filters like liquid or is some of it stopped by the micron filter and/or cotton?

ill have to look into this futher to try and find the best filtration method while keeping the bupe side of the pill, ill report back what i find in a couple days

 

[Scoliosis]

As per my other post, how can i intelligently explain to my doc that I would rather remain on Oxy and not switch to Subox?
****Decline Due to - SEVERE SIDE EFFECTS****

Here are the details; http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=525726

I just declined methadone 2 weeks ago and the doc then said subox will be ideal due to my severe breakthrough pains (currently treated with 4 x 10mg instant release Oxycodone as required per day)

 

[Captain.Heroin]

hmmm, normally I would agree with you, and that is the exact same thing I thought, but after reading these peoples posts, it makes me think otherwise....

I mean....ALOT of people have posted and said that even after only taking 4-8mg's of suboxone, they have to wait atleast 48-72 hr's to even begin to feel the effects of heroin again. Keeping that in mind, it doesnt make much sense that people taking even higher doses of suboxone can feel STRONG("heroin-like") effects when mixing relatively small doses of tramadol at THE SAME TIME as the suboxone. It just doesnt add up.

This is due to tramadol's pharmacological properties as a 5HT releaser, and a norepinephrine reuptake inhbitor (NRI). Tramadol is what's known as a "hit or miss" sort of drug for many people, explaining some people's positive experiences with tramadol and buprenorphine.

There are other drugs you can combine with buprenorphine to create similar states with features such as somnolence, pronounced euphoria, sedation, etc.

 

[jamesBrown]

This is due to tramadol's pharmacological properties as a 5HT releaser, and a norepinephrine reuptake inhbitor (NRI). Tramadol is what's known as a "hit or miss" sort of drug for many people, explaining some people's positive experiences with tramadol and buprenorphine.

There are other drugs you can combine with buprenorphine to create similar states with features such as somnolence, pronounced euphoria, sedation, etc.

I had no idea that the non-opiod properties of tramadol could cause such opiate like effects. Thats extremely interesting.

Also, what other drugs can you combine with bupe to create "pronounced euphoria"??......i am interested in this for obvious reasons.