what about intranasally? is it completely inactive w/ that roa as well? i understand that it is essentialy inactive through all roas when administered as a component of suboxone bc of bupe's higher binding affinity, but hypothetically, could naloxone have an effect when snorted? i know people who snort sub that complain about headaches, and i've wondered if they had sensitivity to naloxone and were getting some of the negative effects bc they snorted it- these people were snorting like 4+mgs as well, which is a much higher dose than i've ever taken any roa and might just have been having a bad reaction to snorting that much suboxone in general- or as you said, they may have just been having a bad reaction to bupe itself.
Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010
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jamesBrown
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my honest opinion(which is not fact), is that your friends were simply snorting too much suboxone, and that is what caused the headaches. Your right...4 mg's intranasal suboxone is quite a bit.
Another reason I believe it is the bupernorphine causing the headaches is because when they did those studies I alluded to earlier.....they also used subutex formulations of bupe so that they had people taking higher doses of suboxone AND subutex(which has no naloxone) and BOTH groups of people had about an equall amount of headache occurences. I think it was around 32-37% of the subjects complained of headaches in both suboxone AND subutex....while only ~12% of the placebo's complained of headaches.
....im searching for the link to that bupernorphine study, Im sure I have it saved on my computer somewhere....ill post it as soon as I find it....damn sister fucking with my computer files!
I FIGURED out why i felt shitty on suboxone and Why people get head aches from this shit... please read this THe question is asked by just some regular Joe and the answer IS A from a DOCTOR who is on Suboxone and also Prescribes it to people... His web site suboxone talk zone is pretty good for information that isn't from people who are speculating. But its from someone who has been trained to read the medical mumbo jumbo studys... Anyway Please look at this to everyone who feel negitive effects from subs
http://suboxonetalkzone.com/2010/05/30/sick-from-naloxone-maybe/
http://suboxonetalkzone.com/2010/05/30/sick-from-naloxone-maybe/
cj
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jamesBrown
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Dr Pepper
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I don't really agree with your logic on the receptors. I mean i don't know how many you have, but if your on a low dose of buprenorphine you CAN get high with other stuff and the there is obviously enough receptors to take on the full agonists.
jamesBrown
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I wouldnt be so quick to assume that everything that doctor says is entirely accurate....I mean...in that article he wrote he even admitted that plenty of doctors dont know what they are doing/talking about when it comes to suboxone/subutex...so why would he necessarily be any different?
In fact, he contradicted himself in the article...heres a quote directly taken from said article...
"A second type of reaction is more common in my experience, and that is where the naloxone is not destroyed well be the liver and instead gets into the systemic circulation and then to the brain and spinal cord, where it blocks the opiate effects of buprenorphine. In this case the person would have typical symptoms of withdrawal, including headache, depression, anxiety, restlessness, pain, diarrhea, and nausea."
What hes saying there^^^ is that in a few people, the nalaxone doesnt get destroyed in the liver, causing it to end up in your body's circulation....eventually causing it to "block the opiate effects of buprenorphine."
But, first of all, this is not possible....for the same reason we have talked about MANY MANY times, the nalaxone will NEVER outcompete bupernorphine, therefore, even if there is some nalaxone that gets by your liver, it would still have to outcompete bupe in order to block its effects, which is impossible....
...and the funny thing is that this doctor even admitted to that earlier in the article...saying....Both Suboxone and Subutex cause precipitated withdrawal, which comes from buprenorphine, not naloxone...this is because of the higher binding affinity of bupe compared to nalaxone.
So..in short...I wouldnt take this doctors word too seriously because..
one...he blatantly contradicted himself in his own article...
and two...the fact still remains that as long as you have bupe in your system, it will ALWYS outcompete nalaxone.
jamesBrown
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Oh yea I know you can still get high on full agonists while on low dose suboxone....I have done it many times.
i was saying that naloxone acts differently than full agonits and just because it has a few receptors to bind to while the rest are taken by bupe/norbupe....the amount of nalaxone would still not be enough to result in any noticeable effects from the naloxone.....just like when someone "overdoses" on bupe(more than likely mixed with another opiate and/or benzo) they have to give you MANY MANY times more infusions of nalaxone than they would normally with any full agonist in order to even begin to counteract the effects of the bupe.
Captain.Heroin
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http://suboxonetalkzone.com/
This doctor is right about 95% of the time. i have read alot of the things hes said and hes had suboxone figured out for a while and hes not contradicting his self hes speaking about 2 diffrent cases like one person will get one efffect another will get another and this is true. and anyway I was just trying to point this site and article out to people who have the same problem as me to try and help them out seeing as. every time i spoke about naloxone being the reason why I got sick ect most everyone told me I was wrong and it was impossible ect. I think your smart and know alot about this but I would b a fool to take your opion over someone like his . read more of his blog posts and u will believe me and see im not just blowing smoke ...
I thought this was about harm reduction and all that not whos dicks bigger and who knows more about what.. I dont wanta argue, Im not affended by what anyone says and I just want to learn and help others who are in the spot I was a while back.. saying that Im wrong and that the site I sited was wrong and trying to discredit him doesn't really get us anywere when your basing all that you said on one article and I really wish people were more about growth rather then coping out and saying shit like, Suboxone IV everyday is just like Zoloft. In My mind thats the addict mind playing ones self. Its not the same and the quality of life for someone who shots subs everyday is worse then one of someone who is sober and or just smokes pot. hell most people who shot subs are doing shit like Taking benzos to get higher from subs ect., I respect you all and dont mean to b a prick. But lets b real,
jamesBrown
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I wasnt telling you that that doctor was "wrong"....I have read his articles MANY MANY times. I know that website very well. And that doc actually knows much more about suboxone than mosts doctors do. But I was simply pointing out a contradictory statement he made in one of his articles. Just because I did that doesnt mean Im jsut trying to prove people wrong...this is a harm reduction site, like you said, and its in the best interest of harm redcuction if the CORRECT information is spread.....
and just because you read one thing a doctor posted doesnt make it true automatically. Im not trying to "discredit" him as a doctor...I was simply makin a valid point about what he was saying. I laid the facts out right there in my last post for you to see....he contradicted himself...its very simple. People do that sometimes, its no big deal. but it SHOULD be corrected.
It is a fact, that even if the nalaxone bypasses the liver and gets into your bodys circulatory sytsem, it will still not be able to outcompete the bupe/norbupe...this is just a fact of life. there is no changing that fact. And I think you got this idea in your head ever since you had that bad experience with the suboxone and you wanted to find some reason for why it happened so you chose nalaxone.....but the truth is, what your arguing doesnt equate to what the laws of chemistry tell us.
Ill give you another chance to make your point though....if you can give me evidence that proves nalaxone can outcompete bupe/norbupe when its in your system, after it has bypassed your liver, I will be interested and look into it more, and maybe even believe you in the end. But I doubt this will happen because there is a fact that you keep ignoring..."nalaxone does not ever outcompete bupe".
Im not trying to say these things just to put you down, or make your arguments look bad or anythign......im just trying to help you figure this out. And im doing that by showing you the facts. You are trying to make your point by showing me an article by some doctor.
Captain.Heroin
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His explanation was pretty much on point with a lot of things. The one thing I could tell he was incorrect about, was that naloxone "only prevents IV use which happens in a small percentage of users" or something like that. One, it doesn't do dick to prevent IVing, and two, a lot of people IV buprenorphine.
OK heres my point,,,,Naloxone is unable to pull bupe out of the Opiate receptors.. WE all know this point to b FACT, proven every day by people injecting suboxone. Also is proven by the few people who overdose on Bupeinorphine. Because they are and of will be unable to be revived by the use of Naloxone. (this is caused by *Bupes* Extremely high Binding Affinity for the µ- and κ-opioid receptors. Naloxone only has high affinity for The U- receptor and low affinity for the K- and O- receptor. so Due to this Naloxone Losses the opiate War in the brain.) My thought is mabye the U receptor is the one that causes me to feel sick..
But while being unable to bind to the receptors, (and win the war)I believe that it is still possible make people very sick. Causing vomiting, nausa, headache, feeling unable to be happy or sad (feeling flat), Also feeling dysphoria. (Naloxone has won a few battles but not the war and these battles are why I feel sick ect.)These symptoms are known to be caused by Naloxone. These are common side effects from the drug Naloxone, and in the medical feild these symptoms are not disputed to be caused by Naloxone.
So Since this is all the case, (Fact not conjecture or my thoughts. What I have said are Facts plain and simple.) then when I feel symptoms that are clearly, Known to be common symptoms caused by Naloxone. Then Why, when I feel theses symptoms and I am taking something that is known to have Naloxone in it, would I ever believe that the symptoms are not caused by the Naloxone. I understand that you think, that since *bupe* has the extreme affinitiy for the receptors, Naloxone will subsequently be Doing nothing. Here in lies the problem in my opion.
I believe that Even though Bupe has that affinity, It does cause Naloxone to be 100 % inactive. The reason I am so dead set on this is due to my body. I experinced something with Suboxone, that I did not experince when I switched to Subutex. The only diffrence between the two drugs is Naloxone.(I am aware that there is also Inactive ingredents that are diffrent but these are not the cause) So I ask you, why when I was on Suboxone did I feel symptoms that are known to be caused by Naloxone. And then why When I switched to Subutex, (pure *Bupe* without Naloxone) Did these horrible symptoms miraculously go away.
I simply say this I have been on both meds. One had Naloxone in it#1, one does not#2. I felt Horrible symptoms known to be caused by Naloxone. So when I switch To #2 And the symptoms go away. Common sence Would tell me and most folks that The cause must be Naloxone. This is why I say I agree with the fact that it is Unable to pull *bupe* out fo the receptors, But I do not in any way agree with you saying Naloxone is not the cause for the way I felt. I truly Dont think that there is anyway to prove what Im saying with the things I have at my finger tips. But I feel I made my case as well as it can be made and I dont think that you will disagree that I am most likly right. Naloxone is unable to pull out *bupe*, But Naloxone is still acting on your body in some way. Otherwise me and others I have talked to would not be feeling they way we did.
I dont want people to think that since it is inactive in regards to being able to pull out *bupe*, That it will also be completly inert. Because I know this is not the case my body told me and showed me. If the things I have said have not made you rethink your stance I have nothing to say that will. I simply say that it still plays around in your body to the point in some people that take it will get very sick ect.
----Please people be careful about were they store there pills. your child or brother or cusin only needs to have one suck off what they may think is candy, to overdose. and now that these new More candy looking films are coming out, the risk highly goes up of children thinking its somthing for them to eat. -----
But while being unable to bind to the receptors, (and win the war)I believe that it is still possible make people very sick. Causing vomiting, nausa, headache, feeling unable to be happy or sad (feeling flat), Also feeling dysphoria. (Naloxone has won a few battles but not the war and these battles are why I feel sick ect.)These symptoms are known to be caused by Naloxone. These are common side effects from the drug Naloxone, and in the medical feild these symptoms are not disputed to be caused by Naloxone.
So Since this is all the case, (Fact not conjecture or my thoughts. What I have said are Facts plain and simple.) then when I feel symptoms that are clearly, Known to be common symptoms caused by Naloxone. Then Why, when I feel theses symptoms and I am taking something that is known to have Naloxone in it, would I ever believe that the symptoms are not caused by the Naloxone. I understand that you think, that since *bupe* has the extreme affinitiy for the receptors, Naloxone will subsequently be Doing nothing. Here in lies the problem in my opion.
I believe that Even though Bupe has that affinity, It does cause Naloxone to be 100 % inactive. The reason I am so dead set on this is due to my body. I experinced something with Suboxone, that I did not experince when I switched to Subutex. The only diffrence between the two drugs is Naloxone.(I am aware that there is also Inactive ingredents that are diffrent but these are not the cause) So I ask you, why when I was on Suboxone did I feel symptoms that are known to be caused by Naloxone. And then why When I switched to Subutex, (pure *Bupe* without Naloxone) Did these horrible symptoms miraculously go away.
I simply say this I have been on both meds. One had Naloxone in it#1, one does not#2. I felt Horrible symptoms known to be caused by Naloxone. So when I switch To #2 And the symptoms go away. Common sence Would tell me and most folks that The cause must be Naloxone. This is why I say I agree with the fact that it is Unable to pull *bupe* out fo the receptors, But I do not in any way agree with you saying Naloxone is not the cause for the way I felt. I truly Dont think that there is anyway to prove what Im saying with the things I have at my finger tips. But I feel I made my case as well as it can be made and I dont think that you will disagree that I am most likly right. Naloxone is unable to pull out *bupe*, But Naloxone is still acting on your body in some way. Otherwise me and others I have talked to would not be feeling they way we did.
I dont want people to think that since it is inactive in regards to being able to pull out *bupe*, That it will also be completly inert. Because I know this is not the case my body told me and showed me. If the things I have said have not made you rethink your stance I have nothing to say that will. I simply say that it still plays around in your body to the point in some people that take it will get very sick ect.
----Please people be careful about were they store there pills. your child or brother or cusin only needs to have one suck off what they may think is candy, to overdose. and now that these new More candy looking films are coming out, the risk highly goes up of children thinking its somthing for them to eat. -----
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^^^ i feel that the reason he says the things in the way he does isnt due to him being incorret. I think he says things the way he does because he is a doctor , and he respects his oath to do his do diligence. This would mean not promoting People IV anything. I also know that When I was learning about suboxone in the begining I learned that you can IV suboxone and not get sick due to blogs and posts he has made.
With doctors and abuse they will not speak on it, other wise they loss. He was so early to say things about low doses causeing Full agnoist effects, ect. Its up to you, if you choose to believe what I say. Whether or not you think I am a crazy person who just rants which isn't that wrong, Or you think Im a person who rants because Im trying to learn and get to a core of something.
I have always had to read between the lines with doctors and I am not suprized that this is the case now with the doctor we are talking about.
Paulination
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I agree whole heartedly DK when i switched from suboxone to subutex it was an amazingly difference not only did i get a freakin rush within a couple minutes of dosing. i dont get headaches or leg cramps from the subutex like i did from suboxone. and drinking alchohol is actually pleasurable again 
Paulination
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i have a questio, ive filtered about 30 subutex pills through compacted cotton with a needles syringe, filtered the entire solution over and over again about 6 times. like its posted in the nasal adminastration page i know it didnt say to do it oveer and over again but i thought just to be safe, is it bad to filter it to much when using it nasally? i mean would i lose any of the buprenorphine?
Captain.Heroin
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You don't lose much with cotton filtering. There's no need to do it more than 2 or 3 times though, that should be effective.
The only thing you need to do if you haven't already is find a preservative for the solution, so it will keep over time.
Paulination
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thanks alot captain, yah i just use the saline solution out of the botle thanks for the quick reply man
man i was looking at micron filters they sure are hard to find nowadays and the only ones i found were at amazon, 50 for 237$
Music:Welcome home metallica
man i was looking at micron filters they sure are hard to find nowadays and the only ones i found were at amazon, 50 for 237$
Music:Welcome home metallica
Captain.Heroin
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http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=481622
Check out that thread, I have the sources listed for micron filters.
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