Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[jamesBrown]

1mg here

IV I assume?

 

[jamesBrown]

fuck no, i'm too nervous around needles, although i IV H once in a while with help. plugged, have been plugging for almost 2 years now, right around when I joined this site and learned of it. never gone back.

Ah...I enjoy a good rectal bupe dose from time to time as well.

In fact, the first time I dosed bupe rectally was 4 mg's after only taking about 1 mg total a day for a long time, and I had waited about 24 hr's since my last dose....and it made me feel euphoric. It felt better than any other dose of bupe has made me feel, in fact it was almost like a moderate oxy dose.

Anyway, I tried to recreate the experience with no luck so far. Im currently taking 0.5 mg IV doses and even when I plug a 4 mg dose randomly it still doesnt seem to do much more for me. Maybe I need to wait a little bit of time after my last dose to do it and get euphoria. Oh well.

What are your thoughts on the effectiveness of rectal bupe? And have you ever had the euphoria from suboxone like im talking about?

 

[pixplzthx]

We are all Wonderfully Different When it Comes to Dosing

so I'm prescribed the 8 mg, and I was just wondering how people make the tiny doses out of it that have better effect. I used to shoot it but without a micron filter so I'm trying to stop that. Would it be sanitary for me to make a solution in water to save and plug, such as .2mg/ 10 ml or something and just keep it on my shelf? And whatever people say I haven't been able to get the same good effect from bupe from plugging or snorting, that I get from IV. Snorting isn't my favorite, but I was thinking I could crush up a pill into one of those coke bullets, and just snorting a bump every morning or something. Just want to know what other people are doing for the awesome small doses.

With my awesome small plugged doses, I find that I need about 1 mg of bupe and less than 6 cc of water. The amount of water seems to matter for some reason. Just keep playing with the ratios to see if you can find something that works for you.

 

[Drifter74]

Just woke up from about a 3HR nap about an hour ago.. I woke up feelin' sorta shitty (mentally) and ate 40 more MG's of Methadone.

The way I feel now reminds me of the depression that always used to follow after taking Methadone for a week or three. (I used to alternate between Methadone, Morphine, Oxy's and Codeine mostly.) It also reminded me to eat some stool softeners. heh

Would like to have nice 'nod/drooling session or two before jumping back on Subs when my 'dones run out..

I'm eagerly awaiting the opiate warmth that should be coming soon, wondering if I should have taken more. Afraid to take my usual Xanax dosage.

At my second to last Sub Dr. Visit he ordered me to see a psychiatrist. He said "You're a strange one, very difficult to read.. You seem like a very complex individual." Umm... OK. SO.. I made about 30 phone calls before I found a shrink that ALSO prescribes Suboxone. <grin> When I told my current Dr. the name of the psychiatrist I was going to see he was a little taken back. I don't think he expected me to find one that could take HIS place at the drop of a hat. He asked that I have the shrink call him BEFORE I see him.. Hmmm..

The life of an addict....

Of course in about an hour or so I'm sure I'll be quite happy. Ahh...I sure wish I NEVER touched opiates or benzos... Not looking forward to the transition back to Sub when I run out of my dones...

 

[jamesBrown]

I enjoy my life on suboxone. I have learned how to dose in a way that gives me many beneficial effects....including euphoria....while not becoming physically addicted to the drug. I have gone long periods of time without using it and had no withdrawal so I know for sure im not an addict.

 

[Georgie25]

Taking a break from shooting up my subs for awhile. Dont have access to new rigs so I been re using the few I do have for way too many times and have horrible tracks on my arms and bruises, and I finally came to the realization that it just wasn't worth it anymore to not even feel a rush or high from shooting it to go thru much pain trying to find a vein to hit. I only really do it because it's quicker (until your veins are all fucked up then it can take me 1-2hours of stabbing at my arms, wiping blood off, repeat) to feel it than taking it sublingual. But hopefully giving it some rest will help some or maybe I wont feel the need to IV anymore once taking a break from it, whcih would be nice as well.

 

[Drifter74]

I enjoy my life on suboxone. I have learned how to dose in a way that gives me many beneficial effects....including euphoria....while not becoming physically addicted to the drug. I have gone long periods of time without using it and had no withdrawal so I know for sure im not an addict.

Sure wish I could control my opiate intake.

Of course when I first started I certainly KNEW I could.

Can't remember who posted this above, but it's a great read re: Bupe.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.science.smith.edu/departments/Biochem/Chm_357/Articles/pha34477.pdf

 

[battlemur]

Suboxone after 20mg Oxycodone

I am not addicted to opiates or anything. I'll maybe take a percocet or hydrocodone every now and then (1-2 10mg tabs every other week during the weekend).

I just took 2 10mg percocets about 3 hours ago and my buddy gave me a 8mg suboxone. I've been reading everywhere that if I don't wait 12-16 hours to take the suboxone that I will go into precipitated withdrawls. Now is that still the same with me? I never have withdrawls because I don't take opiates nowhere near as much as my friends, I may have a slight groggy feeling the next morning (but very rarely).

So, if I take an 8mg suboxone 4 hours after I took 2 10mg percocets, will that cause me to go into precipitated withdrawls, even though i'm not addicted and never have withdrawls?

Thanks for any help.

 

[jamesBrown]

First of all, it does not matter one bit if you have never been addicted to or consequently had withdrawal from, opiates.

The way suboxone can put you into "precipitated withdrawal" is by ripping the other opiate you have taken recently off of your brains receptors, causing you to go into severe, immediate, withdrawal(not fun at all, worst feeling in the world).

Ok, and the only way suboxone can rip the other opiates off your receptors(causing you to go into PW's) is if you still have some opiates on your receptors. This usually means that if your a heroin addict, for example, but you havent taken heroin for a long enough period of time(usually around 12-24 hr's) so that there is no more heroin on your receptors, meaning your in pain withdrawing from heroin.....then thats a good way to judge when you can take the suboxone(since the heroin addict is in withdrawals, there is no more heroin on his receptors, meaning he can safely take the suboxone).

But...for someone like you, who isnt an opiate addict, and who wont go through withdrawals once the percs completely leave your brains receptors, its harder to tell when its safe to take the suboxone. SO it good to know the half life of the drug you are taking and about how long it will take to leave your brains receptors.

In your case, I would wait until you do not feel the effects of the percs whatsoever anymore, and then wait another 6 hr's atleast, to make sure all the opiates are gone. And since you dont usually take opiates, Im gonna assume you dont have them built up in your brain, therefore it wont take as long for them to dissapear.

 

[shanefrommaine]

interesting indeed...what's the deal, the partial-agonists never allow the body to finally shrug off those specific withdrawal symptoms from switching out of a full-agonist regime? are we in a constant state of withdrawal as it relates to some chemical---something that regulates heat in our bodies?

anyone else who has been on long-term bupe, any cold sensitivity you noticed?

absolutely in my opinion. the body will always being looking for the exact replacement for it's withdrawal symptom. all downer addiction fixes can be met by any downer to curve being dope sick, but each one if used long term will only require the body to have exactly that

 

[StartedHydro]

If you are not addicted to opiates/opiods then taking suboxone(bupe) will not cause you to have percp withdrawals. So, if you are NOT addicted... You do not need a certain level of opiods daily to feel normal... You are ok to take bupe after or with full agonist.

Depending on the dose of bupe it will either add to the effects of other opiods or completely block other opiods and you will just feel the bupe.

In your case bupe will act as a full agonist and bupe is a very very potent opiod. The average dose for non tolerant persons is not in milligrams but micrograms. Start very very low because of how powerful bupe is and it's very long duration of action, and it's affinity towards your receptors. Once bupe binds your along for the ride as it's extremely hard to "knock" bupe off your recptors. Also if you are non tolerant I would strongly advise not adding another depressant to the mix for at least 24 hours(alch, xan, Valium).

Start very very low like .5, .75, or 1mg and wait at least a hour to see how you feel. I have seen people puke for an entire day off just 1 mg. Another thing bupe is made from thebaine(stimulant like qualities) some people find this opiod very energizing... Keep that in mind to.

 

[jamesBrown]

If you are not addicted to opiates/opiods then taking suboxone(bupe) will not cause you to have percp withdrawals. So, if you are NOT addicted... You do not need a certain level of opiods daily to feel normal... You are ok to take bupe after or with full agonist.

Depending on the dose of bupe it will either add to the effects of other opiods or completely block other opiods and you will just feel the bupe.

In your case bupe will act as a full agonist and bupe is a very very potent opiod. The average dose for non tolerant persons is not in milligrams but micrograms. Start very very low because of how powerful bupe is and it's very long duration of action, and it's affinity towards your receptors. Once bupe binds your along for the ride as it's extremely hard to "knock" bupe off your recptors. Also if you are non tolerant I would strongly advise not adding another depressant to the mix for at least 24 hours(alch, xan, Valium).

Start very very low like .5, .75, or 1mg and wait at least a hour to see how you feel. I have seen people puke for an entire day off just 1 mg. Another thing bupe is made from thebaine(stimulant like qualities) some people find this opiod very energizing... Keep that in mind to.

Im sry but this is not true. You dont have to be addicted to opiates to experience precipitated withdrawal. You merely have to have any opiate on your receptors.

That is how PW's work....the bupernorphine from the suboxone has a higher binding affinity to your receptors than ANY opiate therefore when you take it, it rips all the opiates off your receptors, suddenly crashing the levels of seretonin and all the "pleasure chemicals" that WERE being released by the opiate, so that there is practically nothing releasing the "feel-good" chemicals in your brain. This is like a shock to your brain because you went from pleasure, to pain very quickly....and therefore, puts you into precipitated withdrawals.

IT DOES NOT MATTER if you are an adicct or not. All that matters for you to be able to experence PW's is that your brain has the ability to hold opiate chemicals in its receptors.

Im sry if you were mistaken Hydro. I dont mean to come across as rude. But I didn't want the OP to be given false info.

I know this is true because ive experienced and witnessed it myself.

Once, while I was completely NOT dependent on opiates(and I had been clean for a good 9 months) I had taken a couple lines of good heroin which made m moderately high. Then I took a piece of my cousins suboxone(probaby about 1 mg give or take) about 2 hours after the heroin,and it threw mee into HORRIBLE precipitated withdrawals. And I know thats what they were because I have experienced PW's since and I know what they feel like.

Trust me, you dont have to be an opiate addict to experience PW's. It's not worth the risk anyway, even if you dont believe me. PW's are literally the worst feeling I could ever imagine.

Please be carefull and safe

 

[jamesBrown]

The only thing I agree with you on hydro is that bupe is a very powerfull opiate and that people should take it in very small doses.

1.) You don't have to be addicted to opiates to get PW's

2.) Bupe NEVER acts as a full agonist because it's a partial agonist. I think you meant it can FEEL like a full agonits to opiate naieve people...because it can feel like that if your not use to taking opiates.

 

[StartedHydro]

How bupe behaves relative to each individual is a function of their tolerance/addiction/dependance.

Bupe very much will behave just like a full agonist to a non tolerant person.

 

[jamesBrown]

How bupe behaves relative to each individual is a function of their tolerance/addiction/dependance.

Bupe very much will behave just like a full agonist to a non tolerant person.

I think you misunderstood what i was saying. I never said bupe never behaved like a full agonist....
I do agree that bupe "acts" like a full agonits for the most part when taken by people with little experience with opiates...

I personally have seen opiate naieve people getting extremely euphorically high off of only 0.3mg or so doses of it.

So, yes, I agree, when you dont have a tolerance it seems to act as a full agonist. I was merely stating that doesnt mean that bupe is actually a full-agonist, it just can sometimes have similar properties of full-agonists. But it is still, and always will be, a partial-agonist. No harm intended, didnt want to start an argument or anything.

And also, you definitely dont have to be opiate dependent to experience PW's.

 

[Lando138]

I just wanted to chime in and back up jamesBrown. Everything he said is good advice and it would do you well to listen battlemur. Bupe is a strange opiate and can really have varied effects from person to person, hell I've been taking it for almost a year and it still has different/strange effects sometimes. Personally, the few times I've gotten high on it there really wasn't much euphoria but more of just a body high. So if you're feeling it but it doesn't feel how you would want/expect it to just know that its quite different from other opiates. Other than that JB pretty much covered everything.

StartedHydro don't take this the wrong way but I suggest you check out the first post at least of the suboxone megathread because you seem to have some wrong information that could end up making you or someone you give advice to really sick and that would be a bummer.

 

[Drifter74]

absolutely in my opinion. the body will always being looking for the exact replacement for it's withdrawal symptom. all downer addiction fixes can be met by any downer to curve being dope sick, but each one if used long term will only require the body to have exactly that

That really shouldn't apply for long term BMT, should it? After a few weeks/months/years on bupe only you would certainly be free of the physical addiction of your prior DOC.

?

I have only been on Sub for a few months but I absolutely sweat more.. Very annoying when you're trying to start a fire in the woods the old fashioned way. This summer I put out TWO freakin' coals with sweat from my forehead. This sucks ass when you're just learning and have been at it for two freakin' hours.

BTW - I'm baked out my gord on 'dones at the moment. I feel like I've never ever taken Suboxone...

 

[StartedHydro]

How so?

My example.

If I had never took any opiates/opiods in my life and then one day I acquired 20 mg oh oxycodone and took it. After a hour I was feeling great and another friend gave me 1 mg of bupe and I took it, I would NOT go into perc withdrawals, period. Since I am not addicted nor dependent to a certain level of opiods there would NOT be a net decrease in in receptor activation but rather a increase.

Perc withdrawals ONLY happen if someone is dependent on a full agonist and if that person takes a partial agonist that has a higher binding affinity than the full and displaces that full agonist then you have a net decrease in recpt activation and that net decrease is perc withdrawals. Period.

 

[StartedHydro]

"That is how PW's work....the bupernorphine from the suboxone has a higher binding affinity to your receptors than ANY opiate therefore when you take it, it rips all the opiates off your receptors, suddenly crashing the levels of seretonin and all the "pleasure chemicals" that WERE being released by the opiate, so that there is practically nothing releasing the "feel-good" chemicals in your brain. This is like a shock to your brain because you went from pleasure, to pain very quickly....and therefore, puts you into precipitated withdrawals."

You are correct.

But wih a non addict non dependent user they are in a normal state without opiods/opiates in their body on a everyday basis. So regardless if they acquire any opiates/opiods or not this non addict, non tolerant, non dependent person is fully functional and feels normal.

This person one night comes across 20 mg of Oxycodone and feels great. Well one hour later a friend offers him some bupe. When this person takes bupe(depending on the dose if it will antagonize the full agonist and lets say he does take a massive dose of bupe 8 mg and lets assume it displaces all the Oxy) this person still will NOT see(feel, perceive) a NET DECREASE of their recp's, but they would in fact still see a NET INCREASE in recp stimulation. This non addict, non dependent, non tolerant person will NOT have perc withdrawals because even though bupe displaced all the Oxy-full agonist- with Bupe-partial agonist w/ low efficacy-they still FEEL a NET INCREASE so to this individual they will feel great/good throughout the night.

The only way one can have perc withdrawals is if you are dependent on a full agonist dosage everyday which is above and beyond your baseline tolerance. Then taking Bupe which would displace the full agonist and take over and being a partrial agonist there is a NET DECREASE in recp stimulation and this user would in fact go into perc withdrawals.

Its the same as if I tried heroin for the first and only time in my life IVed and I ODed. When the para's showed up and injected with a full antagonist I would not be thrown into perc withdrawals I would return to baseline and I would be able to breathe again.

 

[Lando138]

Dependence has nothing to do with it. Think about it. The reason you get high is because the full agonist (for example) attaches to your receptors, right? Unless you're saying that it only attaches if you're dependent.. but if that were the case you wouldn't get high.. Anyway, so the agonist is attached to your receptors, then you take the bupe and because of its higher affinity it knocks off the full agonist, and since bupe is a partial agonist the abrupt chemical change causes withdrawal symptoms (that can be found on the suboxone website in the FAQs, i'm not just making it up lol). Ok, so you can agree that full agonist+partial agonist with higher affinity= PW's, right? Because you said it yourself. Ok, now where in that process is it necessary for dependence to be a factor? I just don't understand where you heard this or how you came up with this. I think my biggest problem with your theory is that "dependence" could be debatable, such as there's physical dependence (which I understand thats what you're referring to, but..) there's also psychological, and at which point are you physically dependent? You could be physically dependent but have barely noticable WD's and not even think anything of it.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be a dick but what you're saying doesn't make sense.

Edit: I was writing this before you posted the post above this. Just wanted to add that if you OD'd, and they injected you with another full agonist you would just die faster, lol. You're thinking of an ANTagonist (i.e. narcon), which is pretty much the exact opposite. Now, i'll admit i don't really know much about antagonists, but i would assume that it would actually have pretty much the same effect as as bupe in this situation in a way(not saying bupe would work as an antagonist and save you in case of an OD) because it would knock the full agonist off your receptors and pull you out of the OD, and i would imagine that you would wake up in WD's. Maybe somebody could confirm or deny that because as i said i don't know exactly how that stuff works but seems thats what would happen.