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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

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my sub doctor used to be cool, 2yrs ago he used to let me pick a benzo of my choice to go along with my suboxone maintence, now im lucky he has me on klonopin .5 2x a day, which amonth supply is gone ine a few days, he dropped me from 3x a day to 2x a day because im on Temazepam from pysch TEMPORARYILY so my dexedrine will adjust, i explained to him, but he decreased me to twice a day, IDK im telling him i want my 3x a day back and the pysch is only doing the temazepam for a month no exceptions. he gives me fiornal tho my sub doc, and his max is 3 subs a day..alot of sub docs do 4 a day, but whatever, and nope he dont do subutex
 
Captain.Heroin said:
These are the best!
Click to expand...

Lol, yeah I bought those shirts for that purpose like 5 years ago, great for summer time.

opiatekrzy said:
my sub doctor used to be cool, 2yrs ago he used to let me pick a benzo of my choice to go along with my suboxone maintence, now im lucky he has me on klonopin .5 2x a day, which amonth supply is gone ine a few days, he dropped me from 3x a day to 2x a day because im on Temazepam from pysch TEMPORARYILY so my dexedrine will adjust, i explained to him, but he decreased me to twice a day, IDK im telling him i want my 3x a day back and the pysch is only doing the temazepam for a month no exceptions. he gives me fiornal tho my sub doc, and his max is 3 subs a day..alot of sub docs do 4 a day, but whatever, and nope he dont do subutex
Click to expand...

My first doc from a stupid 12step style detox program scripted me small doeses of xanax to help make the switch to subs, then continuously for a month.
But I wanted maintenance not really a detox, so when he started cutting back on the subs and eliminated the xanax, I just ditched and found my current doc.
He scripts me 4 pills(32mg) a day as needed, but he knows I only take 2 - 4mg twice a day, and is great about giving me 3 refills so I dont have to go back for about 4 months.

I have heard from friends that my doc did script subutex to a few people, however I think he refuses me because he knows I used to IV and same with my buddy that I brought to him, said no tex.
But on the bright side, he does seem to understand that the naloxone is not really active no matter your ROA because of the affinity.
IDK, really cool, but weird dude, lol...
 
hey folks,
not sure if anyone remembers me. been a while since I posted. Things have been strange. In all honesty, I've been a little embarrassed by my last posts. I went a little off the wall. I switched to opana and oxy from suboxone, and after just 2 weeks of it, on my last day of using full agonists, I shot 90 mg of oxycontin and 40 mg of oxymorphone (through the course of the day) but I had managed to get to a point where I just couldn't get high enough to rid my conscience of the things I had been doing.

Anyway, after making a very hard decision to go back on either methadone or suboxone, I chose the suboxone. This time, I did the subs sublingually. For about a week I was pretty misserable, but that was partly because I simultaneously came down with bronchitus the second I stopped shooting opana and all the binders that go with it.

This was all about 1 and a half months ago. And I stuck to the sublingual for the most part. 16-24 mgs a day. Anyhow, schools starting again, so like the bright, socially nervous neurotic junky I am, I have decided to go back on I.V, lower my dose again, and possibly dip and dabble with smack to ease some of that social anxiety and resentment I hold.

Switching from SL to I.V was actually a little tough, which is what I wanted to express here mainly. I'm not sure if the BA figures posted on this forum are correct. Of course everyone is different. But I can say from recent experience, that shooting 2 mg of suboxone IS NOT as strong as SL 7 mg. I'm kind of wondering if anyone has a similar experience.

Oh, and by the way, I've missed you all dearly.
 
Znegative said:
I'm not sure if the BA figures posted on this forum are correct. Of course everyone is different. But I can say from recent experience, that shooting 2 mg of suboxone IS NOT as strong as SL 7 mg. I'm kind of wondering if anyone has a similar experience..
Click to expand...

Hello Zneg! Welcome back.

I've been wondering the same thing. Since I started taking Suboxone I've used three different ROA's. SL, Insufflated and Plugged (once, 8 mg.)

My experience:

SL SUCKS. I have a continual headache, my sex drive goes to hell and I just don't feel right. When I would take it SL I would usually take 4-6 MG's per day, divided into an AM and PM dose.

I've gone back and forth a couple of times and now I'm back to insufflating.

I take one MG in the AM, one MG in the PM with an occasional bump in between. This is where I feel/function the best...

When I plugged 8MG it really seemed about the same as about 8-12MG SL.

The different ROA's certainly make a huge difference in the way I feel, no doubt about it. I also noticed that I really don't really have any "cravings" when taking the larger SL doses. I think this is the biggest benefit of the large SL doses - it really kills the cravings.

Not so while insufflating. I crave my DOC (and then some) but I don't get headaches and I feel great. I also don't get all lethargic in the evenings like I would get taking it SL. I thought I was done nodding off and burning shit, which is what happens in the evenings when I take it SL.

It sucks because I really want to be taking my Sub as directed but I can't stand the headaches and lack of sex drive.

I definitely need to get to work on a metered nasal spray because I really do not want to be sniffing all this CRAP and I don't want to take the Suboxone SL anymore.

Time to do some digging and find the absolute best way to filter, preserve and dispense metered intranasal doses.

I think my biggest problem is going to be finding the best dispenser to use.
 
yeas that's exactly what I experience. I also notice that if I shoot 1 mg of suboxone over the period of a day (equivalant to about 3-4 mg SL according to numbers sited here) I can get high on any opiate with the exception of probably real low dosages of percocet, codeine etc.. but if I SL 3-4 mg, it blocks it more. I know part of this has to do with the duration, but it still doesn't quite add up to me.
 
Znegative said:
hey folks,
not sure if anyone remembers me. been a while since I posted. Things have been strange. In all honesty, I've been a little embarrassed by my last posts. I went a little off the wall. I switched to opana and oxy from suboxone, and after just 2 weeks of it, on my last day of using full agonists, I shot 90 mg of oxycontin and 40 mg of oxymorphone (through the course of the day) but I had managed to get to a point where I just couldn't get high enough to rid my conscience of the things I had been doing.

Anyway, after making a very hard decision to go back on either methadone or suboxone, I chose the suboxone. This time, I did the subs sublingually. For about a week I was pretty misserable, but that was partly because I simultaneously came down with bronchitus the second I stopped shooting opana and all the binders that go with it.

This was all about 1 and a half months ago. And I stuck to the sublingual for the most part. 16-24 mgs a day. Anyhow, schools starting again, so like the bright, socially nervous neurotic junky I am, I have decided to go back on I.V, lower my dose again, and possibly dip and dabble with smack to ease some of that social anxiety and resentment I hold.

Switching from SL to I.V was actually a little tough, which is what I wanted to express here mainly. I'm not sure if the BA figures posted on this forum are correct. Of course everyone is different. But I can say from recent experience, that shooting 2 mg of suboxone IS NOT as strong as SL 7 mg. I'm kind of wondering if anyone has a similar experience.

Oh, and by the way, I've missed you all dearly.
Click to expand...

Alot of things can effect the BA of intranasal and SL, however, IV is always 99-100% BA all the time.
You may have been getting more than you think with the 7mg SL depending on how you break the pills and how long you leave the pill under your tounge.

Also, the onset effects of SL are different than IV. SL is more drawn out, hits slower and lasts longer, so what might be happening is that since you are used to a slow onset through sl usage, that when you started IVing, the levels of the drug in your blood started to drop because IV wears off alot quicker, and you may have to dose more often to remain well.
Either up your IV dose by 1/2mg, or dose more frequently until you are at the level you want to be...

Drifter74 said:
Hello Zneg! Welcome back.

I've been wondering the same thing. Since I started taking Suboxone I've used three different ROA's. SL, Insufflated and Plugged (once, 8 mg.)

My experience:

SL SUCKS. I have a continual headache, my sex drive goes to hell and I just don't feel right. When I would take it SL I would usually take 4-6 MG's per day, divided into an AM and PM dose.

I've gone back and forth a couple of times and now I'm back to insufflating.

I take one MG in the AM, one MG in the PM with an occasional bump in between. This is where I feel/function the best...

When I plugged 8MG it really seemed about the same as about 8-12MG SL.

The different ROA's certainly make a huge difference in the way I feel, no doubt about it. I also noticed that I really don't really have any "cravings" when taking the larger SL doses. I think this is the biggest benefit of the large SL doses - it really kills the cravings.

Not so while insufflating. I crave my DOC (and then some) but I don't get headaches and I feel great. I also don't get all lethargic in the evenings like I would get taking it SL. I thought I was done nodding off and burning shit, which is what happens in the evenings when I take it SL.

It sucks because I really want to be taking my Sub as directed but I can't stand the headaches and lack of sex drive.

I definitely need to get to work on a metered nasal spray because I really do not want to be sniffing all this CRAP and I don't want to take the Suboxone SL anymore.

Time to do some digging and find the absolute best way to filter, preserve and dispense metered intranasal doses.

I think my biggest problem is going to be finding the best dispenser to use.
Click to expand...

My prefered ROA is IV, best onset and I get to use the needle which helps stop cravings, but I dont always do it because of the risk of a miss. So my usual ROA is nasal, but I do NOT sniff the powder. If you snort straight sub powder, you will loose alot of your dose down the back of your throat before all the bupe can absorb.

What I do is take an oral syringe, which your local pharmacy will give you for free or a $2 charge. Dissolve your sub dose in as little amount of water that you can.
For me, I dissolve 3-4mg in 1/2ml of water, mix it up in the spoon with a toothpick, than drop in a rolled cotton peice(like your prepping an IV smack shot) and draw up the solution through the cotton, into the oral syringe. Your solution should be translucent orange. Just take a deep sniff as you squirt the sol. up your nose, but not too hard or it will end up in your sinuses(that hurts). Your full dose should be absorbed almost immedietly and should kick in full within 20 minutes...

Now you could follow a similar procedure with a micron filter and bacteriostatic water, to create a bulk solution that you could store and use as needed.
 
The BA figures are correct. The difference is that with IV dosing, you are bypassing having the drug heavily bound to protein, so that most of the dose starts effecting you at once. With other ROA's the duration is longer because the effects are more spread out as the buprenorphine is slowly released from being bound to protein.
 
Znegative said:
yeas that's exactly what I experience. I also notice that if I shoot 1 mg of suboxone over the period of a day (equivalant to about 3-4 mg SL according to numbers sited here) I can get high on any opiate with the exception of probably real low dosages of percocet, codeine etc.. but if I SL 3-4 mg, it blocks it more. I know part of this has to do with the duration, but it still doesn't quite add up to me.
Click to expand...

I can still get high even if Ive dosed 4 mg's just a couple hours earlier...maybe its just me but anything 4 mg's and under seems to have minimal blockade effects. Ill atleast feel 80% of the high. But i dont reccomend this.
I think that suboxone should be used by people who are trying to quit an addictive lifestyle and stay as clean as possible....and trying to judge your dose of suboxone based on whether you can still get high or not is, in my opinion, not a beneficial way to use this drug.

If all your doing is trying to get high and use sub as a tool for when you cant get high and dont want to deal with the withdrawals, then you arent headed down a path that leads to anything positive. All that does is free you from the worry of withdrawal, and once you lose that fear, its sooooo much easier to come up with excuses to keep using hard drugs, and sometimes it leaves you with no need to have an excuse...."no withdrawal, no problem".

Having to deal with withdrawal, is, in my opinion, the equivelant to having to deal with the consequesnces of your actions....and suboxone shouldnt be used as a "cop out" in this situation. When you use heroin, or oxy, or whatever, you sooner or later will have to go through withdrawals, and this keeps your mind in check, reminding you that what you are doing may be bad for you and has consequences, and ultimately can ruin your life.....if you dont have that "slap in the face" to remind you of that...you may end up in a worse situation than you ever imagined. Maybe not, but your life isnt something to gamble with.

If our society was a world where you could indulge in the most euphoric, pleasurable, activities, and not ever suffer any negative consequences, than we would be living in a world full of addicts...to put it simply. Everyone would indulge in pleasures, and slowly forget how to maintain a normal lifestyle/society. This is why we have checks and balances.....when you do heroin too much, you will have SEVERE pain if you don't constantly take it and have it available to you at all times. Using suboxone takes the "pain" part of this scenario out of the picture and puts you in an even more dangerous situation.

Please....if you choose to use suboxone.....use it exclusively.....it will truly help you that way. I use suboxone every day, and have found the right dose, and the right ROA where I even get a little buzz off of it several times a day, while maintaing a normal lifestyle....im not addicted to it, I can stop taking it for days or weeks with no issues....it truly has saved me from my heroin addiction, and it hurts me to see people abusing the privelage of using sub's in order to HELP them maintain there habit.

IM sry to preach but I just want everyone to be safe and make the best choices for themselves....I know its not my place to tell you what to do or what not to do, I was just giving my experience to hopefully help someone else. I wish someone told me all of this a long time ago.
 
I also only use buprenorphine but it's not a bad thing to want to still use full agonist opiates. People have their phases, I grew tired of using heroin a long time ago and simply enjoy buprenorphine more now. However if someone else is still struggling with recovery, it's normal to switch back and forth from buprenorphine and full agonist opiates. Tchort has talked about this previously.

I don't use full agonist opiates anymore and haven't for a really long time, but I also do enjoy many other drugs from time to time (ranging from cannabis, to benzos which I haven't done in forever, to antihistamines like doxylamine or hydroxyzine, and dextro-amphetamine). I think it's irrelevant to nit-pick over what drugs a person uses or whether or not they IV them. Because the importance is if you are able to keep it to a recreational level, or if you are addicted.

If you can use full agonist opiates without being addicted to them, that's wonderful. I just find more enjoyment in other drugs. I found that full agonist opiates were "better" once you were going from WD's to peak effects in a few minutes. That's just not something I find enjoyable anymore.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
I also only use buprenorphine but it's not a bad thing to want to still use full agonist opiates. People have their phases, I grew tired of using heroin a long time ago and simply enjoy buprenorphine more now. However if someone else is still struggling with recovery, it's normal to switch back and forth from buprenorphine and full agonist opiates. Tchort has talked about this previously.

I don't use full agonist opiates anymore and haven't for a really long time, but I also do enjoy many other drugs from time to time (ranging from cannabis, to benzos which I haven't done in forever, to antihistamines like doxylamine or hydroxyzine, and dextro-amphetamine). I think it's irrelevant to nit-pick over what drugs a person uses or whether or not they IV them. Because the importance is if you are able to keep it to a recreational level, or if you are addicted.

If you can use full agonist opiates without being addicted to them, that's wonderful. I just find more enjoyment in other drugs. I found that full agonist opiates were "better" once you were going from WD's to peak effects in a few minutes. That's just not something I find enjoyable anymore.
Click to expand...

I agree with you completely....I was simply saying that if your sole purpose of using suboxone was to help maintain your unhealthy addiction to heroin or some other strong opiate, than that was probably a poor choice. Its only potentiating an allready serious problem.

But, if you can use suboxone and full agonists, while making sure your not becoming an addict or supporting an allready existing addiction...then thats fine, thats great. But i personally know people who just use suboxone when there sick so they dont have to deal with withdrawals, therefore making it MUUUUCH easier for them to prolong their debilitating addiction. This isn't beneficial.....its only creating the illusiong that you can indulge in hardcore opiates without the consequences.....it makes some people feel like there not addicts if they never withdraw....that makes sense doesnt it??...if you never have to go through withdrawal...than you must not be an addict???...wrong.....if you use suboxone as a crutch for your addiction, than you are still an addict with a serious problem, but you have the added problem of thinking you are invincible, or do not have a serious problem.

It can be used correctly and in a healthy way, while at the same time, still indulging in full agonists.....but it can also cause problems in a very sneaky way, and can create the illusion that there is no addiction, or no consequences, when the reality of it is, all your doing is prolonging the consequences, and putting them off to deal with another day...and by that time the situation could very easily have become several times worse than it had been.

Basically....if used responsibly...suboxone can be a very beneficial drug in many ways....but it can also be used in a way that aggitates an allready deadly serious situation.
 
jamesBrown said:
I agree with you completely....I was simply saying that if your sole purpose of using suboxone was to help maintain your unhealthy addiction to heroin or some other strong opiate, than that was probably a poor choice. Its only potentiating an allready serious problem.
Click to expand...
That probably is true, since you are going to go through more buprenorphine for less "wellness", and it'll also keep your heroin tolerance growing quicker (not using Suboxone and getting to come down when you are out of heroin means you can get higher next time you use heroin), so you are correct as well. Eventually, there won't be enough heroin or Suboxone, and then you're backed into a corner.
 
I know some guys that do that, not a good idea IMO.

I use my suboxone for what it is scripted for(maintenance), and seldom do I do any full agonists anymore, I did mess around not too long ago, but just a few pills that were mostly blocked by the remaining bupe.

To me, the bupe is the 'drug', great replacement for the full agonists that I could not control myself on. It gives me a great feeling of well-being and energy, even confidence, makes me out-going and other benefits at times. I can use it like a normal drug, keeps my mind off and away from heroin. I still crave once in a while, but some IV bupe will fix that!
But the best part to me is that I can live a relatively normal life with out the constant worry of narcotic addiction. I may still be an addict, and the bupe is part of the addiction, but I can control and benefit from it.

I do dabble around else where as well of course, love some weed, benzos and some amps for heavy work days.

But IMO, if you can live relatively well, hold a job, pay bills, support yourself(aside from drugs) and be safe and productive, while benefiting from or enjoying your use, than your addiction is not really so much of a problem, as it is a therapy or copeing mechanism.

Some will disagree, its all in the opinion of the individual, remember that 'sanity' is measured in statistics...
 
Znegative said:
hey folks,
not sure if anyone remembers me. been a while since I posted. Things have been strange. In all honesty, I've been a little embarrassed by my last posts. I went a little off the wall. I switched to opana and oxy from suboxone, and after just 2 weeks of it, on my last day of using full agonists, I shot 90 mg of oxycontin and 40 mg of oxymorphone (through the course of the day) but I had managed to get to a point where I just couldn't get high enough to rid my conscience of the things I had been doing.

Anyway, after making a very hard decision to go back on either methadone or suboxone, I chose the suboxone. This time, I did the subs sublingually. For about a week I was pretty misserable, but that was partly because I simultaneously came down with bronchitus the second I stopped shooting opana and all the binders that go with it.

This was all about 1 and a half months ago. And I stuck to the sublingual for the most part. 16-24 mgs a day. Anyhow, schools starting again, so like the bright, socially nervous neurotic junky I am, I have decided to go back on I.V, lower my dose again, and possibly dip and dabble with smack to ease some of that social anxiety and resentment I hold.

Switching from SL to I.V was actually a little tough, which is what I wanted to express here mainly. I'm not sure if the BA figures posted on this forum are correct. Of course everyone is different. But I can say from recent experience, that shooting 2 mg of suboxone IS NOT as strong as SL 7 mg. I'm kind of wondering if anyone has a similar experience.

Oh, and by the way, I've missed you all dearly.
Click to expand...

Hi Z... I remember you and have some experience [long term] MMT and am currently on low dose SMT. High dose of subs didn't work for me and low dose doesn't do much for cravings.... just prevents WD's and light energy burst after dosing. So I occasionally use oxys, pot, alcohol. Have a script for benzos. The biggest difference [for me] between SMT and MMT is the cravings and usage of other opiates. I felt no need to use other opiates while I was on a relatively high dose of methadone... mainly because stockpiling and double dosing with benzos worked just fine. This doesn't work for me [and many others i know] with subs.

I'm strictly speaking about long term MMT patients who are in it for the long haul. If you are planning on abstinence some time soon... thats a different story. But for economic/geographic/family issues... I'd go back to MMT in a New York minute.
 
Last edited:
Wow, six weeks of weaning myself off of bupe and now I can get a mild high from IVing.2-.5mg. I've gotten an effect twice and I waited three days between each dose.

Did I use too much or is that a good dose? I want to get the most out of it while minimizing any tolerance or decreased euphoria. How often can you dose and at what dose?
 
And it's quickly fading.... does that mean I took too much?

:( so close....
 
damn i just typed five paragraphs and lost it all... round 2.

im wondering what side effects people have experienced for long term bupe maintenance. i've tried several times to get off this, all the way down to 1mg skip days, but i fail. now i am in school, so im scared shitless to try to get off again. i cant even be in mild withdrawal and go to chem labs or whichever class, let alone manage my fucking life.

the reason it is so hard to taper is because i have the 8mg tabs, not from a doctor, so i cant go to 2mg tabs. this makes it very hard to go to low doses. im walking around with tiny suboxone crumbs in my wallet, just trying to stay normal. captain heroins taper method is ideal... for an IV user. you can dilute bupe in water and have precise and accurate doses that can easily be titrated and tapered down. perhaps there is a way to increase oral BA so i could drink exact mL/ug doses?

what i have done in the past is go from sniffing it, to sublingual, then to oral over time. perhaps, even though it is not cost effective, which i honestly dont care about, i could just dose orally with liquid? has anyone done this? i could drink 4mg, which would be .4mg if it is a 10% BA. then drink 3.5mg, 3mg, and so on over the course of weeks/months, ya?

it is too hard to have lines out and dividing the lines up. the dose is innacurate and i prefer other ROA because of a slower onset/longer duration.

does anyone have an opinion on the oral taper? i would go through a lot more suboxone but it would be more exact doses, and i could go down to 0.01mg if i wanted to.

i am not one of those people who can just stop the bupe, the withdrawal for me is disgusting, and being in any type of discomfort... for weeks... well that has relapse written all over it. all i can think about is using when it starts to come on, the yawns and all that, watery eyes... yuck. it is just too damn hard to dose this shit out when im snorting what i THINK is 1/48th of a pill. and then im looking at a plate with a lot more bupe on it, jeez i could just snort that and feel great and be chirpy, now im back a month.

perhaps i should stay on this forever. it is a depressing thought, though. i know i could feel better again, but it would take MONTHS. i would need to be locked up in a cell or on a fucking island again.

so once again, if anyone could give me a heads up on some long term side effects they have noticed, because maybe i will take this for the rest of my life. the other shit side is that i dont need 8mg a day, and if i see a doc, it would just be more money, but one less thing to worry about rather than hoping whoever else is still prescribed so i can get it. i mean isnt it always ~$8 a tab/day, regardless of dose? paying 8 dollars a day for a 2mg tab would suck! although if i fail a few more times trying to get off this i probably should see a doctor.

i was planning to taper down to 1mg again then use tramadol and xanax for the end, but i fear it may not work out, and this is all during a pretty intense school schedule and full time job that keeps me alive and in this house.

how about for people who have been on this stuff for a year-ish or more, how did you taper off successfully? i hear that a lot of doctors switch you to other things in the end taper.

bupe is serious stuff for me, and from my experience, it looks like a three month span to return to normal. maybe next summer break wont be as fun as the others...

thanks to anyone who has any input, i got off one hell of a benzo habit, and now this is the final battle. im kind of angry they prescribe such high doses, i swear theyre trying to get people hooked on this, i mean why not. temgesic would help so much, or an extremely expensive scale.

thanks again
 
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