Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[Howard B Huge]

ive been using bupe (about 8-12mg) daily for about 2-3 months. got it down tho so that 1mg will hold me. if i jump off now will i get shitty withdrawals or what? just took 400mg dhc now after 3 days of abstinence (which hasnt been toooo bad) and am feeling gooood also; just thought id share that, but it might be helpful as to my tolerance.

cheers

Hopefully not, but the rule is that the longer half-life an opiate has, the longer the W/D's will be.

Bupe has a half-life of approx. 37 hours, which is a long-half life, so even jumping off at 1mg. might cause some problems.

If possible, try to taper down to as little as possible, then jump off.

If you have W/D's, maybe use a drug like DHC or Tramadol short term (10 days or less) to get over the hard part, along with some "comfort" drugs like Valium or Ambien for sleep issues.

There's an old saying when it comes to opiates: "Nobody rides for free"

I successfully tapered off of Methadone, but I did it very slowly so it was relatively painless.

Let us know how you're doing.

 

[Law]

Props for tapering off of the Methadone, Howard! That shit is no joke to get off of, at least from what I've heard/read. So props, bro.

..Well, the time has come for me to finally "get my act together," so to speak. I'm getting on Suboxone for real this time. Instead of bitching out a day before my last appointment. [7/8/10] I think this time I'll actually go through with it though. Because I'm simply sick of the lifestyle & vicious circle that comes with being a junkie. Pills are what I'm always using, but there IS a lot of heroin involved as well. But, whatever. I've posted in here before about getting on the Subs, and I've even posted information about Suboxone. You can find me under the name "Snugg."

Now, it's time for me to take my own fucking advice. I think I'm going to do the best possible thing that there is for me. Which, for right now, will be opioid replacement therapy or "ORT." For now, until... I don't know when, I think that's the best possible thing for me to do. And I can't lie, I'll admit that I'm scared as fuck, but I've also got high hopes as well. Because when I use suboxone now, it pretty much destroys all of my cravings. And lets be honest, that is the hardest part for me to get past... So, I'm going to do this the "right" way. At least for me it is....

If y'all want, I'll report back with how it started, how it's going, and how well I'm "maintaining." Too bad my appointment isn't for another two weeks. I go on 8/12/10....

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Now playing: Looptroop - Last Long
via FoxyTunes

 

[Howard B Huge]

How the hell are some of you snorting your Subs?

I crushed an 8mg pill (Roxane generic Subutex) and it was a lot of powder.

Maybe half in each nostril?

I'm trying to cut down my Sub dose to one 8mg tablet a day as my Dr. started me on 16mg per day a couple of three months ago as Sub Docs tend to overprescribe.

In the 2-3 months since I've been on Subs, I've worked down from 16mg, to 12mg, and now down to 8mg, but I feel a bit of W/D's at 8mg so I tried snorting my dose as the BA is higher, but it's a lot of powder.

I'd like to get down to a ridiculously low dose of something like 1mg per day to save money, but I may have dropped my dose too fast so I may need to dose at around 10mg per day and then move down to 8mg in a few weeks.

For those of you on the name brand Subs, does the Orange taste burn when you snort them?

 

[Howard B Huge]

Props for tapering off of the Methadone, Howard! That shit is no joke to get off of, at least from what I've heard/read. So props, bro.

..Well, the time has come for me to finally "get my act together," so to speak. I'm getting on Suboxone for real this time. Instead of bitching out a day before my last appointment. [7/8/10] I think this time I'll actually go through with it though. Because I'm simply sick of the lifestyle & vicious circle that comes with being a junkie. Pills are what I'm always using, but there IS a lot of heroin involved as well. But, whatever. I've posted in here before about getting on the Subs, and I've even posted information about Suboxone. You can find me under the name "Snugg."

Now, it's time for me to take my own fucking advice. I think I'm going to do the best possible thing that there is for me. Which, for right now, will be opioid replacement therapy or "ORT." For now, until... I don't know when, I think that's the best possible thing for me to do. And I can't lie, I'll admit that I'm scared as fuck, but I've also got high hopes as well. Because when I use suboxone now, it pretty much destroys all of my cravings. And lets be honest, that is the hardest part for me to get past... So, I'm going to do this the "right" way. At least for me it is....

If y'all want, I'll report back with how it started, how it's going, and how well I'm "maintaining." Too bad my appointment isn't for another two weeks. I go on 8/12/10....

----------------
Now playing: Looptroop - Last Long
via FoxyTunes

I got off of Methadone by doing a very slow taper.
I was down to 2mg per day, and when I last left the clinic, I had 6 takes home doses x 2mg each and I stretched those out for a couple of weeks and jumped off at around .5mg with just generic Ambien to help with sleep.
I had a few days of feeling a bit "off" but after a week I was fine.
I was able to go to work the entire time as well.

As for Subs, I think you'll like them.

My first few days of tranistioning from Pods to Subs was difficult, but my Sub Dr. called in a script for 10x10mg Valium for me which helped a lot, and by day 3 I was feeling pretty damn good.

Not high, just normal.

Still had some opiate cravings, but they were gone after a few weeks.

It seems that the longer I'm on Subs, the better they work and the more I like them.

They don't get you high or nod out like on Methadone, they just make you feel normal and not crave opiates and may even give you a slight mood elevation.

I've become very fond of Subs. I haven't used or have had the desire to use since being on them and people have noticed an overall improvement in my personality and demeanor, and I'm much more motivated to do things.

It's also a plus not spending a lot of time, energy and money thinking of ways to get pills, pods and other drugs.

I never used H, but I did start IV'ng my Dilaudid script and knew that things would only get worse from there.

Right around the same time, Roxane came out with generic Subs which make Sub maintenance affordable for me so I got on them and it was by far the best thing for me.

Before taking your first dose of Subs, wait until you feel W/D symptoms and then take a very small amount of Subs, like 1mg.

That way, if you go into precipitated W/D's, they won't be as bad and wont last as long if you took a full dose of Subs, like 8 or 16 mg.

Try to start on the lowest dose of Subs possible as many Sub Docs over prescribe.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[dubSTEP]

i'm pretty sure this is all covered ad nauseum in the suboxone megathread, but:



Yes.



You don't have to wait 24-36 hours after EITHER ONE to take opiates. However, you will probably not feel any effects for 48-72+ hours after any form of buprenorphine (unless very small infrequent dose type situation). You get precipitated withdrawals from taking sub too soon AFTER taking another opiate; the reverse is not true.



The bupe. The naloxone in suboxone is essentially inert because buprenorphoine has a much greater binding affinity for the opiate receptors. Again, the w/d is only an issue when you are taking bupe after opiates, not the other way around. They may not work, but you likely will not get w/ds.

oh ok so I have it backwards? You CAN take opiates right after dosing suboxone and be fine? I just won't feel any effects of the opiate? Well unless I was the 36+ hour mark. I can take opiates after suboxone and not go intowithdraws? It's only taking suboxone right after dosing opaites when you go into precip w/d's? Sorry I thought I had this figured out but read something else and made it more confusing... Can someone clear this up, please

 

[antsunrise]

oh ok so I have it backwards? You CAN take opiates right after dosing suboxone and be fine? I just won't feel any effects of the opiate? Well unless I was the 36+ hour mark. I can take opiates after suboxone and not go intowithdraws? It's only taking suboxone right after dosing opaites when you go into precip w/d's? Sorry I thought I had this figured out but read something else and made it more confusing... Can someone clear this up, please

You're now correct.

36 hours is probably a little steep though. I think after 24+ you'd be fine.

 

[dubSTEP]

Sorry I am seriously fucking retarted, too much Xanax today, my
memory is a little hazy.

I can take a vicodin RIGHT after taking suboxone and NOT go into instant withdrawls? I simply just won't feel the hydrocodone correct?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

ive been using bupe (about 8-12mg) daily for about 2-3 months. got it down tho so that 1mg will hold me. if i jump off now will i get shitty withdrawals or what? just took 400mg dhc now after 3 days of abstinence (which hasnt been toooo bad) and am feeling gooood also; just thought id share that, but it might be helpful as to my tolerance.

cheers

Maybe, maybe not. I don't get severe WD's anymore. I would try to get down to 0.5mg/day if you could.

Maybe try 1mg every other day?

 

[tarmie]

After it taking nearly a week to get started on Suboxone, I had the strength to destroy the remainder of my DoC. Being serious about wanting to get off of all this crap, I destroyed it on day one. I was feeling really great about getting help and felt like I would be OK. Thanks to a scheduling issue, I am left without a dose today, which would be day 4. I'm currently at 6mg (8mg on day one was obvious overkill) every morning.

Normally if I skip a day of my DoC I can expect to be very sick within 36 hours of my last dose, but I'm hoping the longer half-life of Suboxone will help keep me OK at least for the 12 hours until I can dose again. I'm a little on edge already, having let myself get into deep WD on Monday when I thought I could be admitted and then again on Thursday so that I could be for real. A third Up/Down cycle in a week is the exact kind of shit I'm trying to put behind me.

What kind of effect does a day lapse in dosing typically entail for most people on Suboxone?

 

[Howard B Huge]

Sorry I am seriously fucking retarted, too much Xanax today, my
memory is a little hazy.

I can take a vicodin RIGHT after taking suboxone and NOT go into instant withdrawls? I simply just won't feel the hydrocodone correct?

You might still go into PW ( Precipitated Withdrawals) as the Hydrocodone might "beat" the Subs in a race to your receptors and if that's the case, you might experience PW's.

Or maybe both drugs will hit your receptors simultaneously and cause an unpleasant reaction.

Either way, you'll be wasting your Hydrocodone as it won't breakthrough the Subs, unless you are on a very small dose of Subs and then you take a lot of Hydro.
Not recommended.

There is no reason to do either as you will either go into PW's or you won't feel the Hydro and you'll be wasting them.

Save your Hydrocodone for a rainy day, or perhaps barter them for some Benzo's, or give them to a friend in need.

If you are currently using opiates and want to switch to Subs, wait until you feel physical WD symptoms.

Everyone is different in how long they can wait before taking Subs as everyone has a different history of drug use and physical makeup.

The best way is to wait until you feel the opiate WD symptoms, then take a very small dose of Subs (1mg or even less)

That way, if you go into PW's, they won't be as bad or as long lasting in comparison to taking a full dose of Subs (usually 8-16mgs)

Take the small dose of Subs, then wait an hour or so and if you don't go into PW's, then take the remainder of your normal Sub dose and you should be OK

Also keep in mind that constantly switching back and forth between Subs and your opiate DOC will become more and more difficult each time, and the Subs will take longer to make you well.

 

[Howard B Huge]

After it taking nearly a week to get started on Suboxone, I had the strength to destroy the remainder of my DoC. Being serious about wanting to get off of all this crap, I destroyed it on day one. I was feeling really great about getting help and felt like I would be OK. Thanks to a scheduling issue, I am left without a dose today, which would be day 4. I'm currently at 6mg (8mg on day one was obvious overkill) every morning.

Normally if I skip a day of my DoC I can expect to be very sick within 36 hours of my last dose, but I'm hoping the longer half-life of Suboxone will help keep me OK at least for the 12 hours until I can dose again. I'm a little on edge already, having let myself get into deep WD on Monday when I thought I could be admitted and then again on Thursday so that I could be for real. A third Up/Down cycle in a week is the exact kind of shit I'm trying to put behind me.

What kind of effect does a day lapse in dosing typically entail for most people on Suboxone?

Everyone is different, but Subs have a half-life of about 37 hours and some people dose every other day.
And I've heard of people going up to 3 days without taking their Subs before feeling WD's.

If you have some "comfort" meds like Valium or other Benzo's, they will probably help.

But again, it all depends on how long you've been on Subs and your dose as well as your previous drug use/history.

You definitely want to avoid jumping back and forth between Subs and your DOC as it makes the adjustment more difficult each time.

 

[MaddTime]

So I have been on bupe on and off for about a year (I would periodically switch back to my DOC to lower my bupe tolerance) and I have made plans to withdraw from it for good. I was thinking, the only reason I have a job I ABSOLUTELY FUCKING HATE is so I can buy shit I don't need. So I decided that I will escape the tyranny of employment and I will head to Mexico. There, you can buy non controlled meds for cheap. I plan on buying tramadol, gabapentin (very helpful for wd), soma, and clondine. I have two questions,

1. Will these meds theoretically negate the effects of wd-ing from 2mgs of suboxone?
2. As I have no insurance, I was enrolled in a "needy meds" program and was thankfully supplied with sub at no cost besides the 150 for my doctor. He has been giving me 60ct 8mg pills which I have amassed as I have tapered to 2mg. What should I do with the surplus once I finally kick?

 

[Drifter74]

Your SUBOXONE Dr.

It's no secret that most Doctor's (and every Dr. I've ever been to) are complete (arrogant) idiots who could care less about their patients or their well being.

Suboxone Dr's seem to be worse than most from what I've experienced/read.

Let's hear about your Bupe. Doc!

What do you think of him/her? Are they a great help? Just in it for the money? Completely clueless? Are you more educated about buprenorphine than they are? What upsets you the most about them? What do you like about them?

My Dr. is a complete joke. He's most certainly an idiot (although not totally stupid) and forgets most everything he says which makes him a bit unpredictable at times. It was really annoying at first but after a couple months of seeing him I think I've got him almost completely figured out - which gives me an advantage.

He's quite liberal with his prescription pad, doesn't care about THC hits on my urine tests and is conveniently located so I'm sticking with him for the time being. (but also covering my ass at the same time.)

What's been your experience?

(this post was originally @ the URL below but got closed because the Mod didn't know what to do with it - I assumed it would be merged here but apparently not.. Sorry for inconvenience, I try to only post questions, etc. that will benefit the whole community.)

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=8607609#post8607609

 

[Captain.Heroin]

1. Will these meds theoretically negate the effects of wd-ing from 2mgs of suboxone?
2. As I have no insurance, I was enrolled in a "needy meds" program and was thankfully supplied with sub at no cost besides the 150 for my doctor. He has been giving me 60ct 8mg pills which I have amassed as I have tapered to 2mg. What should I do with the surplus once I finally kick?

1) No, but I am not sure. It varies but I still think you won't feel right IMO.

2) Use them to taper even lower, this is just best from what I know to be true for myself.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

It's no secret that most Doctor's (and every Dr. I've ever been to) are complete (arrogant) idiots who could care less about their patients or their well being.

Suboxone Dr's seem to be worse than most from what I've experienced/read.

Let's hear about your Bupe. Doc!

What do you think of him/her? Are they a great help? Just in it for the money? Completely clueless? Are you more educated about buprenorphine than they are? What upsets you the most about them? What do you like about them?

My Dr. is a complete joke. He's most certainly an idiot (although not totally stupid) and forgets most everything he says which makes him a bit unpredictable at times. It was really annoying at first but after a couple months of seeing him I think I've got him almost completely figured out - which gives me an advantage.

He's quite liberal with his prescription pad, doesn't care about THC hits on my urine tests and is conveniently located so I'm sticking with him for the time being. (but also covering my ass at the same time.)

What's been your experience?

(this post was originally @ the URL below but got closed because the Mod didn't know what to do with it - I assumed it would be merged here but apparently not.. Sorry for inconvenience, I try to only post questions, etc. that will benefit the whole community.)

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=8607609#post8607609

I like my Suboxone doctor for the most part just because he doesn't do drug tests, doesn't ask too many questions, has me in & out in 2 minutes.

 

[Sublimit]

Not really, I use it primarily as a pain reliever as of now, but most times more as an ADHD medication.


I have no idea how to equate the two drugs other than how they affected me and it varies per individuals.



- the most I took at first was 6mg per day sublingually. I moved onto the IV route and started higher and then tapered down as time went on. When I dropped the dose was when I stopped doing heroin and had some time to let that tolerance slowly dwindle.


No other opiates. I would prefer psychedelics to be legalized, I would prefer to have weed legalized, but I could live with opiates remaining illegal. All drugs should be legal but I don't use full agonist opiates anymore nor do I want to use them, they are no longer "desirable" to me.


Sorry to hear you are in pain, what does buprenorphine do for your pain compared to oxycodone?

hey sorry to get back to you so late. and yeah i was talking to you

thats really interesting how you feel about buprenorphine. If you say no other opiates would you be able to stop the buprenorpine and never use?

what pain do you use the bubrenorphine for? I had know idea buprenorphine had off label use to treat ADHD?

one thing i didn't like too much was IV'g 4 times a day, even with rotating? do you IV everyday as you ROA? what gauge needles do you use? i have the 27 gauge and i preferred to have 2 a day rather than 4. I never misses a shot and my arms don't look that bad at all,,, i was worried that they'd look fucked.
micron filtering is the best, but i think i could use a smaller gauge


I ended up staying on it for 10 days shooting 3-4 .7mg for the 1st few days. i didn't think much of it at first, but seeing as i bought 3 8mg tabs i started experimenting with it more. generally having 3mg or less a day but using less water. Over the weekend i had 8 2mg xanax in 12 hours and had 2 2mg shots of bupe and got really wasted, but it was easier to go back to my 2mg a day dose for the last 2 days.

It was good and it got me into a dosing routine rather than a random excessive dose of oxycodone. it took away my back pain, but it wasn't as effective as oxycodone you my knee. not a great difference but noticeable. i ended up saving 11 days of OC's because of the bupe and i had a functional time (except for the weekend) on it. I'm thinking about using it one week a month.

well i waited 48 hours with the help of tramadol and dose 40mg of oxycodone, and just like clockwork i felt a blanket of relief and nice buzzy euphoria, but only weak overall. Buprenorphine is great for learning to manage drug use easy to manage a regime... there's almost no temptation to use more.... all though can be used recreationally with combinations

 

[Captain.Heroin]

thats really interesting how you feel about buprenorphine. If you say no other opiates would you be able to stop the buprenorpine and never use?

Possibly...I am not sure if I will ever have to quit any time soon though.

what pain do you use the bubrenorphine for? I had know idea buprenorphine had off label use to treat ADHD?

I'm not prescribed it for these reasons, I just find it effective for them. I have pain from splitting my toenail at least 1/4th of an inch or so into my toenail. It is very annoying. Otherwise I typically don't have pain.

one thing i didn't like too much was IV'g 4 times a day, even with rotating? do you IV everyday as you ROA? what gauge needles do you use? i have the 27 gauge and i preferred to have 2 a day rather than 4. I never misses a shot and my arms don't look that bad at all,,, i was worried that they'd look fucked.
micron filtering is the best, but i think i could use a smaller gauge

I use 31G needles every time. They are my favorite! And I probably inject 4 times at least a day, up onwards to maybe 10 times (if I am awake through an entire 24 hour period for instance). I probably average 6 to 8 shots per day.

I have tons of veins I can use. I typically use my hand/wrist ones, all the way to the forearms, the crook, and the other veins running near the elbow/upper forearm.

At the moment I am only using 20 to 28 mcg at a time. So, on average, I am probably only going through 200 mcg per day (spread out) at the most.

I ended up staying on it for 10 days shooting 3-4 .7mg for the 1st few days. i didn't think much of it at first, but seeing as i bought 3 8mg tabs i started experimenting with it more. generally having 3mg or less a day but using less water. Over the weekend i had 8 2mg xanax in 12 hours and had 2 2mg shots of bupe and got really wasted, but it was easier to go back to my 2mg a day dose for the last 2 days.

It was good and it got me into a dosing routine rather than a random excessive dose of oxycodone. it took away my back pain, but it wasn't as effective as oxycodone you my knee. not a great difference but noticeable. i ended up saving 11 days of OC's because of the bupe and i had a functional time (except for the weekend) on it. I'm thinking about using it one week a month.

well i waited 48 hours with the help of tramadol and dose 40mg of oxycodone, and just like clockwork i felt a blanket of relief and nice buzzy euphoria, but only weak overall. Buprenorphine is great for learning to manage drug use easy to manage a regime... there's almost no temptation to use more.... all though can be used recreationally with combinations

I know someone who uses buprenorphine the same way I do for back pain, and they are using doses closer to yours as it works better as an analgesic at those levels.

Glad to hear back from you though - I have been busy too, talk to you later!

 

[axe battler]

ive been off the subs now since friday but i still feel a bit shitty and have work soon. if i take say... 30-60mg of codeine will i prolong the withdrawals much? i wouldnt have thought so but i want to get this shit out of the way for the weekend. thanks

 

[mandrake]

Question: I am getting down to dosages below 1mg in my suboxone taper. If I don't snort or inject it, what is the optimal way of taking these minute amounts? Still sublingual? They would seem to dissolve instantly and get swallowed? Sorry if this has been answered before.

 

[pinsinmyneedles]

ok so.. first post.
i'm a heroin addict, been using basically for eight ish years, three of which i was on methadone. went back to dope because of the severe w/d..
got prescribed suboxone that lovely little piece of orange disgusting tastiness that i remember so well. thing was, as much as it has helped me in the past to get through detox, it didn't seem to be doing much for me the last few days.
i thought i did everything right? i waited til i was in horrible withdrawals before taking the pills, or should i say my doctor waited until i was in horrible withdrawals to give them to me..
days one and two i felt slight withdrawal symptoms: restless legs and body, nerves, hot and cold, body aches. i even took some k pins just to sleep and i still had super restlessness.
so thats when i started looking around to see about this whole IV suboxone myth about the narcan, because i needed something that sucking the little basards couldn't give.
skip ahead, i shot it last night for the first time (2 mg) and i had about 15 minutes of w/d symptoms, followed by feeling normal. not bad, not good.
i just shot again after reading the less is more rhetoric and did maybe .5 mg. this time i felt nothing at first but after about 5-10 minutes i been feeling quasi high.
so i figure this is because i still have a high tolerance yeah? how long will it take for me to start getting some good feelings out of suboxone? i had about a 3/4 gram a day habit the last many months and also have just gotten off methadone a few months ago. lots of drugs..
sorry i wrote a novel and i'm glad to meet all of you, virtually!