Tapering off of poppy pods

[HamClamp]

Here goes nothing.

I've been eating 15-20g. raw pod grounds twice a day for some time now. Between high prices, low quality, health issues, etc. I've decided it is time to stop. I've done this before so I'm as ready as I'm gonna be.

I've mapped out my taper according to what works for me. At higher doses I drop 30% and stabilise for three days, Then another 30% drop. Once I get down fairly low I only drop by 10%. Again three days at each new (lower) dose to stabilise. I've bagged up each days doses marked them with weight and date, and I've got a few helper/comfort meds available if I need them.

This morning is Day-One. Todays dose is 15g in Grapefruit Juice morning and evening. Also taking a multi-vitamin, L-tyrosine, and 5-HTP. with each dose.

And so it begins...

 

[Help me please]

Best of luck to you Ham!

 

[HamClamp]

Thanks Help- I appreciate the encouragement.

Day-one complete. Dosed according to schedule. No issues.

One day closer to where I wanna be.

On to day two...

 

[Help me please]

You really have it planned out well weighing and bagging everything up. I think you will be another success story. Bo had said that if he has clondine patches he would have fared better. I know I used them for two weeks during my initial drop from oxymorphone to morphine and it was such a life saver (literally) after that second day. One patch is good for 1 week. With insurance mine were 4 patches for $10. You might want them in a few days.

 

[mlk_2900]

Just saw this post and had to jump over here. I am so glad Day 1 is done and you are 1 day closer to freedom and best yet it was done with no issues!!! Wonderful!

I will be following along and doing the same as you soon!

 

[HamClamp]

You really have it planned out well weighing and bagging everything up. I think you will be another success story. Bo had said that if he has clondine patches he would have fared better. I know I used them for two weeks during my initial drop from oxymorphone to morphine and it was such a life saver (literally) after that second day. One patch is good for 1 week. With insurance mine were a 4 patches for $10. You might want them in a few days.

No insurance here so I'll just tough it out for the time being. If my blood pressure gets weird I'll go to a walk-in clinic and pay cash. I've not had B.P. issues with past tapers so I'm hoping this one will be the same. I do, however, appreciate the suggestion and will keep it in mind.

Thank you!

Just saw this post and had to jump over here. I am so glad Day 1 is done and you are 1 day closer to freedom and best yet it was done with no issues!!! Wonderful!

I will be following along and doing the same as you soon!

Yep so far so good. I just got up from a remarkably good night's sleep and I'm feeling good. I don't feel an immediate need to dose upon waking so I'm sitting here drinking half a cup of coffee and having a smoke first.

Thanks for your support!

 

[Ixchellian]

This morning is Day-One. Todays dose is 15g in Grapefruit Juice morning and evening. Also taking a multi-vitamin, L-tyrosine, and 5-HTP. with each dose.

And so it begins...

I did about the same thing..... I was eating about 12-15 tazmanian pods a day. I cut down to 3 pods, then one pod on my last day.

The vitamin/protein helps a lot!

If you can get your hands on some gabapentin or pregabalin, those work great for killing the spasms. flexeril helped me sleep the first two days, as did an anti-nausea med.

 

[HamClamp]

I did about the same thing..... I was eating about 12-15 tazmanian pods a day. I cut down to 3 pods, then one pod on my last day.

The vitamin/protein helps a lot!

If you can get your hands on some gabapentin or pregabalin, those work great for killing the spasms. flexeril helped me sleep the first two days, as did an anti-nausea med.

Right on Ix. I've got a bunch of Valium, a few Soma and a few Flexeril, I can get some Gabapentin if I need it, Protien drink mix, Gatorade, lots of fresh fruit and veggies, Loperamide, lots of Pedicularis to smoke or make tea for muscle relaxant/sleep, lots of weed for nausea/appetite, Passion Flower extract, Kava Kava extract, etc., so I'm pretty stocked up for just about any contingency.

Luckily, for whatever reason, I've never had trouble with RLS when kicking so I don't anticipate any but I'm prepared nonetheless. I'm also one of those weirdos who sleeps almost non-stop when withdrawing because of feeling so tired and worn out. When I kicked H in-patient a while back the staff kept accusing me of sneaking somethign in because of how much I slept but the daily drug-screenings proved them wrong. It's just the way I'm wired I guess. I consider it a blessing. I planned this taper/kick for quite some time so I stocked up on just about anything I might need.

I'm really suprised becasue this mornings dose kicked my ass and got me pretty stoned. My first thought is to take a bigger drop but I've gotten into truble with that in past tapers so I'll just stay on schedule as planned and it won't be long and getting a buzz will be a distant memory.

Speaking of my schedule: I'll post my plan in a seperate post so that others can see how I laid it out.

Thanks for your input!

 

[HamClamp]

For anyone interested here is my dosing schedule.

I dose 15-20g raw grounds in juice twice a day. Morning and before supper. I took a 25% drop from 20 just to start with a round figure of 15g.

I stay at each new dose for 3 days to stabilize before dropping another 30%. Once I get down to around 5g I take smaller 10% drops. Here is how I laid it out:

************

Morning dose in grams/evening dose in grams

*********************

30% Drops

15/15 (Day-one: 15 grams morning/15grams evening)
15/15 (Day-two: 15 grams morning/15 grams evening)
15/15 (Day-three....)

15 x .70 =10.5
(70% of 15 grams gives me a 30% drop in dosage)

10.5/10.5 (day-four...)
10.5/10.5
10.5/10.5

10.5 x.70 = 7.35 I round up to 7.5g here


7.5/7.5
7.5/7.5
7.5/7.5

and so on....

5/5
5/5
5/5

Here I go down to 10% drops now:

5 x .90= 4.5
(90% of 5g gives me a 10% drop in dosage)

4.5/4.5
4.5/4.5
4.5/4.5

4.5 x.90 = 4.05
(90% of 4.5g rounded down to 4.0 gives me a 10% drop in dosage)

4/4
4/4
4/4

(Rounding down to 3.5...)

3.5/3.5
3.5/3.5
3.5/3.5

(and so on, again rounding down to 3.0)

3/3
3/3
3/3

(here it gets too small so I drop the math and just drop a gram here)

2/2
2/2
2/2

(same here- drop one gram. This might get hairy as it's a 50% reduction so I might stay at 1g for longer than 3 days to stabilize)

1/1
1/1
1/1

(same as above)

0.5/0.5
0.5/0.5
0.5/0.5 (Day Thirty-three)


Zero=Freedom


**********************

With no extra days for stabiization this taper will take me 33 days. Slow and easy has worked for me in the past. It ought to work again if I work it. I bought a box of zip-lock bags and pre-loaded all of the above doses, dated them, and put them into a box, in order, so I don't have to mess with it later. It's all laid out and ready to go. No more grinding pods, etc. For me it helps to break the routine or ritual of preparing my dose. This way I treat it like "medicine" in my mind and simply take my medicine along with my vitamins, etc.

I hope this makes sense. It looks really complicated but it's not at all. VERY simple. I like lists and tables and charts so this works for me. Looking at it I can see how it might look really complicated but it isn't.

If anyone has questions feel free to ask and I'll try to answer to the best of my ability.

 

[Bojangles69]

Thats an interesting taper with the double dosing every day.

I'm not going to say you NEED to get down to once a day but what I will say is rather than experiencing 50% of your wds in the first half of your taper, you're only going to experience like 10-15 at the most%.
Think of it this way.
When you dose once a day you have about a good 10-12 hours somewhat in wds. By withdrawing for that amount everyday once you get to the lower doses you have much less wds put off for the end of the taper.
I have a feeling once you get down to double doses of 7.5 or 5gms a day, you're going to start feeling a much more intense withdrawal phase even with the taper.

When I got down low is when my wds got the worst, and I think now if I was doing 2 doses earlier in the taper once I got under 10gms it could have been impossible to taper at that point. The extra wds half of everyday obviously aren't fun, but they DO make the second half of the taper much easier to do. And since you're most sensitive towards the end (not in terms of intensity of wds but more frequency of wds) you're going to feel it that much more.

One last thing is double doses make your drops double as severe. Going from 15/15 (30) to 10.5/10.5 is a cumulative drop of *9gms* in one day. There was some days I stablized for 2-3 days, dropped only 3-4 gms and was feeling rather shitty. I think some of your drops for this reason are gonna wind up being postponed or delayed.
I also personally prefer dropping smaller amounts every single day vs larger drops every few days. It keeps the ride much smoother and you're not going back and forth between those heavy swings which is really what provokes people to wanna give up.

All and all this is YOUR taper. And you've done them before so I'm sure you've somewhat refined your method from your previous experiences. You should still do what you are 100% comfortable with, and not take other peoples advice to literally. Because I could easily recommend something that doesnt work for you and then you relapse all because I don't know your body as good as you do.
So I wish you the best of luck no matter how you wind up finishing your taper.

One last thing I want to say is the storing in bags thing is absolutely the best way to do it. EXACTLY like you said the ritual alone of grinding pods makes it so much easier to just grind a few extra pods and slip back into your old habits.
Having a simple bag dosed out that you can grab real quick DOES make it more like a medicinal thing just like you said. That alone had such a profound impact on my ability to not wanna take higher doses. So you def sound like you know what you're doing. I still will be loggin in periodically to make sure you get through this and reach freedom as painlessly as possible. And I'm not wishing you good luck, because all you need is simple thoughtless actions everyday to succeed at this. You don't even think about it you just do it and before you know you're all done!!

 

[HamClamp]

Right on Bojangles! Thanks for checking up.

You are absolutely right about no luck needed. It's simple: Put less pods into my mouth every few days until I don't put them in my mouth any more. It's so primatively simple it's ridiculous. Easy? I didn't say that. It's as easy or as hard as a person wants to make it. Eat less dope and treat symptoms as they arise.

I've knocked my twice daily doses down to once-daily in previous tapers and it worked out fine. I've done it this way too and since I've been dosing twice daily for some time now this will actually give me a smoother ride. I metabolize like a machine so I'm thiking that is a factor in the equation too. It usually gets uncomfortable for me right around the 5g point so I cut down to only 10% drops and if at any point I need extra days to stabilize I will sit tight at whatever dose is giving me trouble until I get stable.

Although it looks very cut and dried with my fancy-schmancy chart and whatnot nothing is carved in stone. I have no problem going into a holding pattern if I need to. I listen very closely to my body (and it speaks very loudly to me when it's unhappy!) so I feel pretty decent about what I'm coming up against in these next few weeks.

Those last couple lines of your post above are SO important and I think a lot of people miss the whole concept about how primatively simple this process really is. You can read page after page after page about how to kick, how to taper, how to do any damn thing, but it is SO rare for someone to really break it down like you did in just a few key statements. You touched on the same ideas in your recent thread and I was glad to see it because a lot of people have been reading it and I hope the message is getting through to them. While this is certainly uncomfortable it does NOT have to be miserable. It won't be easy, either, but it doesn't have to be hard. It's a simple process: Put less into your body until you don't do it at all any more. Please don't take this as cockiness by any means. cockiness is what got me into addiction and kept me there so many times. No, this isn't cockiness, but rather simplicity.

Thanks again- I'm really glad you chimed in and I'll look forward to hearing from you again as the days pass.

 

[HamClamp]

So I just had my second dose today and once again it is absolutely stoning me. I was buzzed all day at work today- almost giddy/euphoric. Very strange especially considering I am well under my usual dose. Same batch of pods, too, so nothing has changed there. I figured by now, towards the end of day-two, I'd be starting to feel some discomfort or at least a change somewhere somehow. Go figure...

In tapers-past I always seemed to catch a buzz, a much stronger than normal buzz, down around 7-8 grams, too, for whatever reason. Hell I don't know. I'm not gonna worry about one way or the other- just follow the simple plan and deal with whatever comes my way. This morning and this evening a buzz is coming my way so I'm just gonna roll with it, go on with my regular life, and not worry about it.

Well anyhow here I am: day-two complete. Life goes on. No discomfort so far but when it comes I'm ready.

I'm ready. Bring it.

Bring it.

 

[Help me please]

Ham, is the buzz real or psychological? Thinking here...ok, like is it more of an adrenaline rush thing? I get endorphin rushes that I would equate to being "stoned" from music but also certain thoughts and other things. Ignore that coz it's way too out there for a discussion right now.

I'm going to watch your thread though. I'll be here cheering you on!

 

[HamClamp]

Ham, is the buzz real or psychological? Thinking here...ok, like is it more of an adrenaline rush thing? I get endorphin rushes that I would equate to being "stoned" from music but also certain thoughts and other things. Ignore that coz it's way too out there for a discussion right now.

I'm going to watch your thread though. I'll be here cheering you on!

No that's not "out there" at all. At least not to me. I'm a musician and I've had out-of-body experiences when playing/listening. Get into the "right" groove andI go to a different place that's not of this earth. I FULLY understand what you're referring to here! It's freakin' GREAT isn't it? Opiates have dulled that response and I miss it. I want that back again. That feeling you describe is a pure and true euphoria.

Today is a a straight-up opiate buzz "but with a twist". Every now and then, maybe once a week, under "normal" dosing circumstances, this would happen. I would get a really "up" buzz. Rather than that foggy fuzzy "thick" buzz that pods give I would get a real "high" buzz. Extremely uplifting euphoric almost rush-like buzz that would last literally all day. That is the buzz I've always chased. It probably IS some sort of adrenaline, endorphin, or seratonin thing but I'm not knowledgeable enough on that sort of thing to guess other than what I just suggested. You're probably on to something here but I don't think it is taper/withdrawal related as it occurred all along.

I do, when in withdrawals, get an adenaline thing going on. Kind of a blend of anxiety/adrenaline thing. It almost feels, honestly, like a fight or flight response. You know- that feeling of impending doom, a sort of underlying fear, or something. So hard to put words to some of these things, no?

Very good questions and I really appreciate you throwing this out there. As this taper progresses I will take all of the intellectual stimulation I can get as boredom WILL swoop in and try to make me insane.

So you get those "I've gone to outer space" trips from music too eh? I also get that feeling from certain memories, fragrances, poetry/lrics, and even from certain things in nature. Music, for me, though, is the main trigger for that feeling/experience. God I miss that! One more thing to look forward to. Thank you SO much for bringing that up!

Thank you!

 

[Help me please]

Yeah lots of things do it for me. Music is number one though. I have to have it every where I am. I actually have playlists that are for specific things. If I get too down etc., on goes a certain playlist. I am sure I have felt myself feeling "stoned" from music. Sometimes when I am bored at night I hook up my laptop to the big screen tv and play music through there using the various visualizations on media player. Sort of like an LSD trip I guess It works for me so it's all good.

Walking at night under the stars is another one. Well, I have music on so maybe it's the music too. I just started walking at night again. I go alone so it's peaceful. Shopping, which I hate to do, can also do something to my head in a positive way. It might just be my head protects me from some things. It did when I was a kid for sure.

 

[QuasiStoned]

Right on Ix. I've got a bunch of Valium, a few Soma and a few Flexeril, I can get some Gabapentin if I need it, Protien drink mix, Gatorade, lots of fresh fruit and veggies, Loperamide, lots of Pedicularis to smoke or make tea for muscle relaxant/sleep, lots of weed for nausea/appetite, Passion Flower extract, Kava Kava extract, etc., so I'm pretty stocked up for just about any contingency.

Dude with all of those aids I bet you could cold turkey it and be fine! I was hooked for 2 years and quit cold turkey, the only thing that I used was some phenazepam. I did take off from work though so I wouldn't run into trouble coming into work visibly intoxicated or something. The first week with benzos was a breeze compared to without. I ran out of benzos and returned to work after the first week though and did have to put up with some withdrawal symptoms which persisted until day 14 or so.

Of course, a taper is probably easier if you've got the willpower to do it. I could never stick with one myself, cravings always prompted me to cheat after a week or so of success.

 

[unsettled]

I read about your taper plan in another thread and it sounds as solid as solid can be.

I think I cold turkeyed pods by accident a few weeks ago when I got the most ridiculously weak pods ever and I didn't have any other potent pods left over. I knew I needed to get off the damn things after being on them daily for over a year now and I was truly scared shitless, I'm almost glad fate handed me that shipment of worthless pods. I take about 4 teaspoons of pod powder every 24 hours now and I don't feel it at all. I'm pretty much out of pods now so my "taper" is done. I almost feel normal now, (just a little fatigued and my stomach is still a little fucked up, my appetite hasn't completely returned yet either) I'm still taking 12mgs of loperamide a day, that shit saved my life the first week after I ran out of my usual potent pods. I noticed a couple nights I took my pod grounds and not the loperamide and I woke up in withdrawal both of those mornings. I haven't woke up in withdrawal since I've added the loperamide every night before bed.

I have to say that even after my drastic drop in dosage it was still bearable, there was only one day where I was truly scared, fortunately I had plenty of Klonopin and Ambien and Loperamide. On my worst day I drank a whole bottle of liquid loperamide and actually felt normal within a few hours.

I really think with the right helper meds and a solid taper schedule combined with an iron will to quit are all it takes to get off pods and it doesn't have to be uncomfortable. I think it's great you guys are posting these threads because there must be a lot of others going through the same thing, feeling hopeless about withdrawal, especially with the lack of quality pods and the ridiculous prices, but if they read these threads I think they will be much more likely to taper off these pods with a positive attitude and minimal discomfort.

Anyway, like I said, no more pods for me, it's been 36 hours since my last dose and I feel fine, if for some reason the withdrawal comes back with a vengeance and is unbearable I'll use the subs I have stashed away but I don't think I'll need them. Loperamide is truly a miracle drug for opiate withdrawal.

I'd say good luck but I really don't think luck has much to do with it when your plan is as solid as it is, plus you have experience on your side. Thanks again for sharing your tapering journal. Cheers!

 

[Moredopamine]

If I ever need to get off opioids I'll take heavy doses of DXM/ketamine. Those do wonders for any types of withdrawal for me.

 

[HamClamp]

Yeah lots of things do it for me. Music is number one though. I have to have it every where I am. I actually have playlists that are for specific things. If I get too down etc., on goes a certain playlist. I am sure I have felt myself feeling "stoned" from music. Sometimes when I am bored at night I hook up my laptop to the big screen tv and play music through there using the various visualizations on media player. Sort of like an LSD trip I guess It works for me so it's all good.

It might just be my head protects me from some things. It did when I was a kid for sure.

Ha! I do the same thing with the visualizer! No big screen here, but yeah- I can zone-out and go to my happy place for sure. I'm often amazed that a couple hours have passed and it only felt like a few minutes!

A night walk sounds great! I'vve got a small piece of private property and I love to go out late at night and take in the darkness and silence. SO peaceful and such a dramatic opposite to the hustle and bustle of daily life. Nice!

That "kid" place, in our heads, pretty-well describes the place I've tried to get back to via drugs. A great place indeed! If I stay clean long enough, as I certainly plan and hopeto, I'll once again enjoy getting to that place in a much healthier fashion.

Dude with all of those aids I bet you could cold turkey it and be fine! I was hooked for 2 years and quit cold turkey, the only thing that I used was some phenazepam. I did take off from work though so I wouldn't run into trouble coming into work visibly intoxicated or something. The first week with benzos was a breeze compared to without. I ran out of benzos and returned to work after the first week though and did have to put up with some withdrawal symptoms which persisted until day 14 or so.

Of course, a taper is probably easier if you've got the willpower to do it. I could never stick with one myself, cravings always prompted me to cheat after a week or so of success.

You're right. I could jump today, zone out for the next 10 days, and come out of it relatively comfortably. I prefer a taper, though, as I've got work to contend with, I'm a little older than the typical Bluelighter, and I've got some minor health issues (typical "growing older" stuff), so it's really best for me to do this as gently as possible.

I have no problem tapering and I've got no timetable so this is really just the best way for me to go. 20 years ago? I'd have jumped, loaded up on Valium and Loperamide, and come out of the fog two weeks later with a cocky grin on my chin. These days not so much!

If I ever need to get off opioids I'll take heavy doses of DXM/ketamine. Those do wonders for any types of withdrawal for me.

Ha! If I was to go that route I'd be posting from the rubber-room at the local mental health ward. Again, 20 years ago, perhaps. Nowadays? HA! You'd have to scoop me up off the floor as I'd be a quiverring puddle of humanity. Even a standard dose of DXM for a cough makes me feel creepy. I've become almost hypersensitive to certain things over the years. These days I've got to take the "old guys way" out. From what I've read, though, DXM DOES ease a good many withdrawal syptoms but not for this old geezer!

Thank you all for your thoughts, suggestions, and concerns.

Peace.

 

[HamClamp]

I read about your taper plan in another thread and it sounds as solid as solid can be.

I think I cold turkeyed pods by accident a few weeks ago when I got the most ridiculously weak pods ever and I didn't have any other potent pods left over. I knew I needed to get off the damn things after being on them daily for over a year now and I was truly scared shitless, I'm almost glad fate handed me that shipment of worthless pods. I take about 4 teaspoons of pod powder every 24 hours now and I don't feel it at all. I'm pretty much out of pods now so my "taper" is done. I almost feel normal now, (just a little fatigued and my stomach is still a little fucked up, my appetite hasn't completely returned yet either) I'm still taking 12mgs of loperamide a day, that shit saved my life the first week after I ran out of my usual potent pods. I noticed a couple nights I took my pod grounds and not the loperamide and I woke up in withdrawal both of those mornings. I haven't woke up in withdrawal since I've added the loperamide every night before bed.

I have a feeling that the last couple months of weak (and ridiculously overpriced) pods has "inspired" many to give them up as of late. It was certainly a factor for me. While I was planning on getting off of them before winter (winter kicks are murder!) a large order of weak pods inspired me to move my taper ahead by a couple months and get it over with.

As I move through this taper I need to really think about dosing my Lope at night as you suggested. Waking up is the worst moment of the day for me and I think pre-loading with Lope might indeed make for a more pleasant way to greet each day. Thanks!

So many people discount the ability of Loperamide to ease symptoms. Way back in the day, when myself and all my crew were banging H, we thought we had found the greatest secret in the world in Loperamide. It is SUCH a great help. I've seen it referred to as "Poor man's Methadone" and for good reason.

I have to say that even after my drastic drop in dosage it was still bearable, there was only one day where I was truly scared, fortunately I had plenty of Klonopin and Ambien and Loperamide. On my worst day I drank a whole bottle of liquid loperamide and actually felt normal within a few hours.

I've read that the liquid takes effect faster but I've yet to find in on the shelf. I've found the typical 2mg. Lope tablets at a large chain "dollar" store @ 48 tabs for $2.00 US. I walked out of there the other day and my bag sounded like a Maraca *chicka-chicka-swish-cha-cha-cha!* The cute gal at the checkout probably looked at me and wondered just how bd my runs must be to have bought 6 bottles lol!

I really think with the right helper meds and a solid taper schedule combined with an iron will to quit are all it takes to get off pods and it doesn't have to be uncomfortable. I think it's great you guys are posting these threads because there must be a lot of others going through the same thing, feeling hopeless about withdrawal, especially with the lack of quality pods and the ridiculous prices, but if they read these threads I think they will be much more likely to taper off these pods with a positive attitude and minimal discomfort.

Yep. The fear of withdrawal is far worse than the actual withdrawal. It has surely kept me using in spite of the fact that I know that! It is by no means a walk in the park but it doen't have to be total misery either. It's a simple process and we humans do a good job of complicating the hell out of it. Take less drugs, treat symptoms as they occur, lather, rinse, repeat until done.

Anyway, like I said, no more pods for me, it's been 36 hours since my last dose and I feel fine, if for some reason the withdrawal comes back with a vengeance and is unbearable I'll use the subs I have stashed away but I don't think I'll need them. Loperamide is truly a miracle drug for opiate withdrawal.

I'd say good luck but I really don't think luck has much to do with it when your plan is as solid as it is, plus you have experience on your side. Thanks again for sharing your tapering journal. Cheers!

Great job! Hang in there as you're mere inches away from the finish line and subsequent freedom. I really appreciate you and everyone else that has spoken up. It really gives me a feeling of not going it alone and in a small way it also inspires me to remain true to the plan and not let you guys and gals down. I guess it works both ways huh?

I'm so glad you're doing well and feeling good. Keep it up and keep in touch!

Peace.