Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[pixplzthx]

I'm a five day jumper.

I'll start at 2 or 4 mg and just taper quickly. It doesn't matter what dose I'm at on day 5, I just don't dose on day 6. I haven't ran into any real problems with withdrawals. I find that buprenorphine can get you through the worst of it and I've been using opiates for almost ten years.

Good luck!

 

[bev49]

My personal experience with bupe (the American version which only comes in 2 and 8 mg. pills) is that if not tapered off really quickly it is as addictive as methadone. I was on methadone for over 30 years, switched to bupe 2 years ago at a high dose (16 mg), felt like shit til I came down to 4. I have been on 1 mg. sublinqually for the last year and honestly, I feel like crap most of the time. Granted, I'm 60 years old with health issues galore, but at least the methadone gave me a burst of energy. Would I feel better if I snorted it? And since I'm on 1 mg 1x a day, how much would I take if I did snort it. I know people swear by sub but for me it was the worst choice. I found out after started that no pain med can override sub and being the age I am that scares me alot. Another issue is the greed of doctors who know next to nothing about sub. They charge $250 for the first visit (what they call induction - ha). Then $100 each visit thereafter. The visit lasts no more than 2 mins. They don't take insurance in NY. Insurance pays for the sub but with a $40 copay. Thinking about switching back to methadone. I have finally accepted the fact that since I'm opiated addicted for 44 years straight (heroin 10 years, meth 33, sub 2), my brain chemistry is fucked up and it will be a lifelong thing, be it meth or sub or whatever.

 

[jazzyhope]

I've heard headaches are from the naloxone in suboxone. Ask your doctor and he might wanna switch you to subutex. I dont think pupil dilation would cause headaches, it never did mine. Just my 2 cents =)

 

[jazzyhope]

Bev,
When my dose of sub was too low I felt like crap and had no energy either. Why are you on 1mg? Is you doctor tapering you or did you just go down yourself? I am like you in thinking I will have to be on something forever, but sub works well for me. If I was taking it sublingually I would want a little more. How did you feel on 4mgs? If your gonna snort it do the the whole mg and see how you feel. The BA is a little higher snorting it so you'll get more. If you're only wanting to take 1mg then snort about 1/2 of it. Hope you feel better.... Jaz

 

[Georgie25]

When do you guys think doctors will be aware that suboxone can be Iv'd even if it has naloxone in it? I would think by now there would be some studies done about this proving it is possible...hell I'd shoot some suboxne for them if I got paid! Since i know ive never went into w/d from it.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Temgesic is brand name (example:xanax=alprazolam) for buprenorphine like Subutex or Suboxone is.
he consumed 5x0.2mg sublingually (1mg) and then one 0.2mg via sniffing.
said there was absolutely no burning whatsoever, NONE.
but at the same time, there was no reaction / effects also.
we had only 10 0.2mg tabs between us and i gave him one of mine just to get one of us high on bupe but it looks like its not gonna happen.

or is it really possible theres people like some for who codeine does absolutely nothing (0%) and then those who cant feel the recreational qualitites of buprenorphine?
btw, hes done codeine many times, and feels it VERY stongly. and the dosage is usually ~150mg.


also, what about the bioavailability chart from wikipedia:
Bioavailability
70-90% (sublingual, from ethanolic solution)
~50-60% (sublingual, high-dose tablet)
~50% (transdermal)

it seems to me like the default sublingual route is pretty potent. is insufflation really 99% then ?


so its a bit of a mystery for me now.
i dont know whether to buy more of them and do some thorough testing with a few other people incl myself but im on codeine daily right now so that would kinda suck.

however, i also hope someone here can shed some light on this anomality

Buprenorphine doesn't do much for some people, especially if they are expecting full agonist effects.

Some people have an enzyme hyperactivity which causes some drugs to be totally ineffective.

That's all I can say though I have no idea what really is going on.

Yay, my doc is awesome, apon describing my actual symptoms (I decided to be honest) he immediately told me I would have to take a higher dose, without me even asking for it. Apparently 4mg/day isnt enough, so I get 6mg now, still all in one morning dose but .

I can feel the difference already, I dont know why people say less is more, when more really is more. lol.

Sometimes I get slight headaches, just behind my eyes, someone told me this is from my pupils being constantly focused into pinpoints by the suboxone. I dont think my pupils have been normal since I started this treatment. Does anyone know if this really does cause headaches?

Oh and if anyone is interested, I find a combo of snorting and sublingual is best. I put most of the powder under my tongue, and snort 1 or 2 "fingerfulls" of powder, when the pharmacist isnt looking.

suboxone

Glad to hear that 6mg is working better for you. Some people need more than others.

When do you guys think doctors will be aware that suboxone can be Iv'd even if it has naloxone in it? I would think by now there would be some studies done about this proving it is possible...hell I'd shoot some suboxne for them if I got paid! Since i know ive never went into w/d from it.

Never. Most doctors are fucking stupid and are gullible as shit.

I may be arrogant as hell but I know what I'm talking about. Most Suboxone doctors are clueless.

It kills me when I know so much more than most doctors. There are tons of "professionals" who have on idea what they are doing.

 

[fm1983]

I may be arrogant as hell but I know what I'm talking about. Most Suboxone doctors are clueless.

It kills me when I know so much more than most doctors. There are tons of "professionals" who have on idea what they are doing.

You're absolutely correct. I think that suboxone doctors are the most least informed regarding the drug they are prescribing. It amazes me at some of the shit I hear/read that suboxone doctors spew out.

I'd be curious to hear a response from someone's doctor on regards to shooting them. But asking, would surely lead to getting you dropped. I would love to tell my suboxone doctor about how misinformed they are but I'll leave that to someone else. I know we had a thread regarding someone telling their doctor that suboxone is over-prescribed like crazy (which was a great read)

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Within a day or two ago, I dropped down to 40mcg per dose, and I am feeling fully adjusted now. :D

I wonder how much lower I can go. I am going to stay at 40mcg per dose for about a month, and judge from there.

 

[Znegative]

how many times do you I.V/day?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

how many times do you I.V/day?

That's a hard question to answer, I would probably have to guess a range of 4 to 8 times per day, with an average of 6.

Some days I barely do it due to circumstances, other days I get a lot of stuff done and do it more often.

I used to do it more often in the past but I have managed to cut back a little.

I have estimated that one 8mg pill should last me about a month. All in all that isn't too bad whatsoever. At 40mcg per dose, that means I get 200 doses out of an 8mg pill.

Right now the solution I have is 0.8mg/mL and I am using 5 units at a time. It's a very convenient amount to inject, since after you get the blood in the syringe it's pretty easy to inject.

 

[stigup]

That's a hard question to answer, I would probably have to guess a range of 4 to 8 times per day, with an average of 6.

Some days I barely do it due to circumstances, other days I get a lot of stuff done and do it more often.

I used to do it more often in the past but I have managed to cut back a little.

I have estimated that one 8mg pill should last me about a month. All in all that isn't too bad whatsoever. At 40mcg per dose, that means I get 200 doses out of an 8mg pill.

Right now the solution I have is 0.8mg/mL and I am using 5 units at a time. It's a very convenient amount to inject, since after you get the blood in the syringe it's pretty easy to inject.

Why so many times a day? at that small of a dose does it not hold you over as long? This week i've been using about a quarter to a half a 8mg and it seems to last me at least 24 hours. I could probably go longer though. 200 doses from 1 8mg is really crazy! Btw thanks for answering my endorphin question. Have you ever heard of Dr Bob Beck and his brain tuner? I've been doing some research on it and it seems promising.

It may be a little off topic but here is a quote from his rat study about beta-endorphins.


"As an electrotherapy researcher, Bob Beck described it to me, this was originally discovered when scientists analyzed the brains of rats that had been addicted to opiates"

The rats that were addicted had been getting so much opiate that the little endorphin factories in the brain would shut down and basically say, "Look, our body’s got too much of this. Quit manufacturing it…" …

… and it would take anywhere from a week to three weeks before the brain of each rat would begin manufacturing beta-endorphins again. Whereas in the brains of the control rats that had never been addicted, you would find the normal, expected levels of beta-endorphin. And then they would take a third group of addicted rats, cut them off ‘cold turkey’ from the heroin, clip miniature electrodes to their ears, and within 20 minutes of electrical stimulation… the brain of each rat began showing that the endorphin production had started up again. So, those rats wouldn’t go through withdrawal symptoms!

"This evidence quickly led to the use of CES devices in the treatment of humans."

 

[bev49]

To Znegative - Thank you for your private message. I wrote a nice long reply only to get the message that I can't PM until I become a bluelighter and the message was gone. Thanks for the information as well. I don't like sub sublingually at all. It does zero. At least methadone gave me that burst of energy. But my big fear was the pain management issue and you gave me a bit of relief there. I had asked in PM where in Bklyn? I grew up in the Bronx til 15 then moved to Queens because my parents wanted to leave the "bad environment"... Needless to say a friend from Queens gave me my heroin wings at 16 so the move was for nothing lol. I shot my first dope in Brownsville, ended up in Downtown Bklyn, FLatbush & Atlantic and thereabouts.... Was a long time ago as I've been on methadone for 33 years and sub the last 2. If heroin was cheap and legal I'd be there in a heartbeat.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Why so many times a day? at that small of a dose does it not hold you over as long? This week i've been using about a quarter to a half a 8mg and it seems to last me at least 24 hours. I could probably go longer though. 200 doses from 1 8mg is really crazy! Btw thanks for answering my endorphin question. Have you ever heard of Dr Bob Beck and his brain tuner? I've been doing some research on it and it seems promising.

No, I haven't, I am not familiar with whoever that is.

For one, intravenous buprenorphine is rather short lived compared to the sublingual route. also, I prefer multiple doses. It helps spread out the ideal effects of the drug throughout the day. Also, if I fall asleep for a while, I will have a running half life in my system so I shouldn't be in horrible withdrawal.

Even if I use 0.04mg eight times a day, I am still not going through more than 1/3 of 1mg.

… and it would take anywhere from a week to three weeks before the brain of each rat would begin manufacturing beta-endorphins again. Whereas in the brains of the control rats that had never been addicted, you would find the normal, expected levels of beta-endorphin. And then they would take a third group of addicted rats, cut them off ‘cold turkey’ from the heroin, clip miniature electrodes to their ears, and within 20 minutes of electrical stimulation… the brain of each rat began showing that the endorphin production had started up again. So, those rats wouldn’t go through withdrawal symptoms!

"This evidence quickly led to the use of CES devices in the treatment of humans."

I don't think that this would carry over into humans at all, personally speaking. But I have done zero investigation into this because I'm particularly busy.

 

[hellocatastrophe]

"As an electrotherapy researcher, Bob Beck described it to me, this was originally discovered when scientists analyzed the brains of rats that had been addicted to opiates"

The rats that were addicted had been getting so much opiate that the little endorphin factories in the brain would shut down and basically say, "Look, our body’s got too much of this. Quit manufacturing it…" …

… and it would take anywhere from a week to three weeks before the brain of each rat would begin manufacturing beta-endorphins again. Whereas in the brains of the control rats that had never been addicted, you would find the normal, expected levels of beta-endorphin. And then they would take a third group of addicted rats, cut them off ‘cold turkey’ from the heroin, clip miniature electrodes to their ears, and within 20 minutes of electrical stimulation… the brain of each rat began showing that the endorphin production had started up again. So, those rats wouldn’t go through withdrawal symptoms!

"This evidence quickly led to the use of CES devices in the treatment of humans."

in the event they are doing open human testing groups in florida, i'll be one of the first to sign up! however, it just sounds too simple to be the cure. i'm fully interested in this though so let me know if you come across any new information on the subject

 

[hellocatastrophe]

on another note-
like an asshole i blew 100$ for a 4hour oxycodone high the other day and hate myself for it. i've got so much shit going on financially that it was truly a huge mistake. i'm trying so hard to dig myself out of this hole but every little slipup costs me so much- literally and figuratively speaking.

ofcourse the last time i posted about being done with oxycodone i was high as a kite. it's always so easy to be positive about quitting when you're fucked up. jumped back on suboxone today, have done ~1mg so far. i really want to stick with it, but it's hard when all of my motivation over the last year+ has been from pills. it's hard to get up and go to school/work in the morning and do things that i need to get done when i was so used to having my morning oxycodone rush first thing. i know it will eventually get better, i've just never had very much patience.

 

[stigup]

I don't think that this would carry over into humans at all, personally speaking. But I have done zero investigation into this because I'm particularly busy.

I'm just curious as to why you think it wouldn't carry over well to humans?

in the event they are doing open human testing groups in florida, i'll be one of the first to sign up! however, it just sounds too simple to be the cure. i'm fully interested in this though so let me know if you come across any new information on the subject

In fact these studies are from the 1980s! Also it has proven to work on addicts of alcohol and opiates as well as people who are depressed. Different settings stimulate different chemicals. Peter Townsend was actually cured of his heroin addiction by this device. Maybe I should start a new thread about this topic because I have a bunch of links and stuff on the research and results.

 

[hellocatastrophe]

In fact these studies are from the 1980s! Also it has proven to work on addicts of alcohol and opiates as well as people who are depressed. Different settings stimulate different chemicals. Peter Townsend was actually cured of his heroin addiction by this device. Maybe I should start a new thread about this topic because I have a bunch of links and stuff on the research and results.

this isn't like shock therapy is it? i know they use shock therapy to help//cure depression and it does infact work, i've seen it. if shock therapy could cure my addiction to opiates, i'd be in the hospital right now hooked up to the machine!

if this has been around since the 80's and there are people who have benefited from it, why is it not more popular or more heard of? it truly seems like there are so many treatment options//therapies for all kinds of things that just get pushed aside for whatever reasons.

 

[hellocatastrophe]

i found an article on it and i'm quite interested.

http://www.netdevice.net/downloads/article_download/starsbackmachine.pdf

 

[stigup]

this isn't like shock therapy is it? i know they use shock therapy to help//cure depression and it does infact work, i've seen it. if shock therapy could cure my addiction to opiates, i'd be in the hospital right now hooked up to the machine!

if this has been around since the 80's and there are people who have benefited from it, why is it not more popular or more heard of? it truly seems like there are so many treatment options//therapies for all kinds of things that just get pushed aside for whatever reasons.

Nope it's not shock therapy. It's a device that you hook up to you ears and it provides a certain frequency and a certain amp or something and it stimulates the brain. Most of it is politics because if the device is a cure all you know BIG PHARMA will lose out on billions and they don't want people to get cured! It's more profitable to keep people sick. Here's a quote from one of the articles.

“Hey if we take this around to dry farms, namely alcoholic rehabilitation centers, there should be a tremendous need for these.” Now in California alone there are about two dozen—it’s a big industry. He knocked on doors and there was very little acceptance. Finally, a fellow who had worked for one of these dry farms told him the secret. He said, “You know if somebody comes in here who has good insurance, we can run up about a ,000 bill on laboratory tests alone … pathology, kidney test, blood test, you name it. He has to be in here for at least a week and a half to 14 days before we break even on our television-advertising budget alone. The person gets glossed up … the family’s happy … he goes back to work. 75% of them will backslide within six months. You come in here
with a device that will totally restore them in five days? Why, we are a franchise, we are here to make money for our stockholders, get out of here you bum.”

 

[hellocatastrophe]

yeah, i should have figured.
also in the article i was reading it mentioned something about how methadone programs would lose money as well and because they are government run, i can see how it would be better for them to shun the idea.