Znegative
Bluelight Crew
damn, 50 mcg!!! I thought I was real low on 150 mcg, jesus dude! I really wonder at what dosage buprenorphine becomes inactive?
-
OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010
- Thread starter Captain.Heroin
- Start date
- Status
Antecessor
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2010
- Messages
- 92
Take 2mg in the morning and 2mg in the evening, you don't have to take 4mg all at once. This will solve your problem, and you should feel all right until the morning.
You don't need more than 4mg a day, buprenorphine is a very potent opiate. After the first few weeks you are on Suboxone, you will be able to start tapering lower on it, and still get really good effects from it.
If you have problems with sleeping throughout the night, it is possible you could use a sleep aid, but I think splitting your 4mg into two doses is the right thing to do. You're already using a pill cutter to split the 8mg pill, go ahead and split it into quarters.
This belongs in the Suboxone Mega Thread, I'll merge this there now.
Thanks for the reply, I would indeed split my dose of suboxone between morning and night, but I must take my dose as a powder form, in the chemist, every morning. I have to pour the powder from a little clear cup to underneath my tounge while the pharmarcist watches, so no sneaking away some dose.
Though I tried dipping my finger in the cup today, stuck some to my finger, and when I got back to the car I snorted it straight off my finger, It was great.
I want the doctor to let me take some home for nightime. Hopefully
soon they give it to me as tablets to take home like you guys get.
BTW, I am not going to taper, I am going to stay on sub permanently, It makes me feel like everyone else must feel normally!
So do most people agree that less is more with suboxone? I have never felt a buzz from these and i have been on them a week..I have been told try doing less and snorting it..I have done this and I thought I had a buzz but I think it was just mental and not real..Also I don't even think I am getting it all cuz hours after I sniff it I still have orange shit all up in my nose and tons of it..Am I doing it wrong? I have not tried snorting the whole 8mg pill...I may try that..I do like sniffing as an ROA as opposed to under the tongue tho..
Bojangles69
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 20, 2009
- Messages
- 1,758
I think less is more is just a motto bluelight uses the same way you see places like na using mottos like "keep it simple stupid". Where ever you have a gathering of people who share problems you'll see mottos designed to keep them from acting out on the natural impulses that got them where they are in the first place... like "more is more". If you read "more is more" on the walls in rehab you'd get out and likely OD the same day.
I don't have enough experience to talk about whether its true. But I know there was a point I was taking .5mg, and anytime I bumped it up to 1mg I felt a crap load better all around. The reason I always stayed as low as I could though, is you get tolerant to high doses so fast in a few days its worthless. So its more like "more is less" and "less is less" imo.
Take more and it will become less (tolerance), and less is already less (dosage)... so I don't see you exactly "winning" either way. In terms of only withdrawls, then YES less is def more. The less you are on the more a chance you can get off. But in terms of 1mg being 2mg.. obviously not.
I don't have enough experience to talk about whether its true. But I know there was a point I was taking .5mg, and anytime I bumped it up to 1mg I felt a crap load better all around. The reason I always stayed as low as I could though, is you get tolerant to high doses so fast in a few days its worthless. So its more like "more is less" and "less is less" imo.
Take more and it will become less (tolerance), and less is already less (dosage)... so I don't see you exactly "winning" either way. In terms of only withdrawls, then YES less is def more. The less you are on the more a chance you can get off. But in terms of 1mg being 2mg.. obviously not.
axe battler
Bluelight Crew
subs and dhc
ive had about 300mg today. how lon g until i can take some subutex. im quite desperate so please answer asap!!!
cheers xxx
ive had about 300mg today. how lon g until i can take some subutex. im quite desperate so please answer asap!!!
cheers xxx
axe battler
Bluelight Crew
no no. ive had dhc already, just ive heard if you have other opiates in your system THEN take subs afterwards, it gives you withdrawals. how long til i can take the subbies??
well i am an idiot and decided to take 12 mg of immodium because i havent had subs in like 2 days and WDs were starting to get bad. I do think they actually help the withdrawals, i feel about 75%(compared to 33% when I woke up this morning, on subs i feel 100% normal). I kind of like it actually cause it eases the wd a bit but my mind is still in overdrive(which I actually kind of like if it wasn't for the other wd symptoms, its nice to actually feel feelings again). But anyways I ended up getting a small chunk of sub that should be enough if IV'd. I ate the lope around 3 hours ago, do I have to worry about precip wd? I really think I should be good to iv this sub, I mean I still feel some minor wd symptoms and I only took 12mg of lope which isn't even supposed to effect the brain or get you high, it can just ease some wd symptoms. I will wait though till I get a couple responses.
so in short took 12mg loperamide 3 or so hours ago, feel a little better but still have some wd symptoms, want to take a small piece of sub I found(about 1mg maybe a little less even) preferably IV but will snort it if that lessens the chance of precip wd, want to know if I'm good to take this small amount of sub without precip wd from small amount of lope(I really wouldnt expect to get precip wds but i dont want to take a chance)
edit- so I just said fuck it and did it and had no problems, I was almost 100% I wouldn't but I was just scared of that 1% chance I might get pr wd, I don't really like iving bupe though I much prefer to snort it, iving it gives me that gross feeling that subs give like when you first do them with little/no opiate tolerance, I guess it just means its a lot stronger but snorting it is more pleasurable for me
so in short took 12mg loperamide 3 or so hours ago, feel a little better but still have some wd symptoms, want to take a small piece of sub I found(about 1mg maybe a little less even) preferably IV but will snort it if that lessens the chance of precip wd, want to know if I'm good to take this small amount of sub without precip wd from small amount of lope(I really wouldnt expect to get precip wds but i dont want to take a chance)
edit- so I just said fuck it and did it and had no problems, I was almost 100% I wouldn't but I was just scared of that 1% chance I might get pr wd, I don't really like iving bupe though I much prefer to snort it, iving it gives me that gross feeling that subs give like when you first do them with little/no opiate tolerance, I guess it just means its a lot stronger but snorting it is more pleasurable for me
Last edited:
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I don't believe I can move this to your blog, but I will move it in to the Suboxone Mega Thread, because we already have a thread about IV/IM buprenex, and one on IV Suboxone + Antihistamines, but the Mega Thread is where this will get the most replies.
All in all, the IV route is optimal with buprenorphine. I haven't tried IM, and would like to, but am still investigating.
It's harder to keep buprenorphine use in check with IV use because it's very easy to re-dose often, so you have to keep yourself busy, and to use low doses like you mentioned.
I am currently using 50mcg per shot (in 5 units of bacteriostatic water) and am planning on continuing to taper lower.
Buprenex was designed as a pain management drug, because the IV/IM routes of buprenorphine have a great deal of pain relief that the sublingual ROA doesn't have. IV use of this drug isn't *as* addictive as, say heroin, because of the time until onset. With most addictive/euphoric drugs (cocaine, heroin, meth, ketamine, dilaudid, MDA, midazolam, etc) upon IV (I have tried all of these separately IV'd) you should have a rush/high within 10-20 seconds at the very longest.
Time until onset effects why drugs are addictive (Xanax is preferred by many benzo users because it kicks in quick and is potent, crack is more addictive than cocaine, meth smoked or IV is about as addictive as each other; the time until onset is about the same, smoked is probably quicker, you feel it before you exhale on a huge hit). With buprenorphine, you still have to wait 1-2 minutes after an IV injection to feel the onset. Sometimes it's less, often more. It doesn't bother me at all, as I am pretty patient. I feel that an intravenous injection of buprenorphine is a lot like coming up on a snorted line of powder heroin; by 5-15 minutes you will be feeling it. By 20-30 you should be peaking.
Out of all of the drugs I have tried IV (that I listed here); the only ones which have great advantage IV'd, meaning in my opinion (for me) the drugs worth injecting intravenously again were; buprenorphine, MDA, methamphetamine, midazolam. Heroin and dilaudid are included but I listed them separately because I have quit full agonist opiates; if I was still a full agonist opiate user, I would have listed dilaudid only probably, because heroin has good IV effects but the IN route is so good too. I'm so glad I quit so I can think about it like this without thinking about all the negative stuff that is in the past. %)
Ketamine is best taken IM, methamphetamine is probably more ideal if smoked for most people but I just personally hate the flavor and the rush is solid - it's not worth IVing methamphetamine for most people though! Stick to smoking. Missing a shot is more painful than missing a shot of any of these (other than unfiltered dormicum... never happened to me but i can only imagine what missing with that chalky pill would do to one.)
Some people really like IV cocaine, and it is a nice "novelty" experience (only did it with 1 batch due to unbelieveably good purity
) - it's better taken snorted (other BL'ers say oral is a good exp. too if you have enough of it, but I wouldn't do it that way just because i don't like stimulants, and if I was going to do stimulants, I would prefer amphetamines - d-amp or d-methamp).
As far as benzos go, there's no need to IV flurazepam (shortens the duration and isn't very efficient due to the ghastly amount of filler in each capsule) even though it's the most water soluble benzo, ironically. As for midazolam, it is good orally (long lasting too...) but IV is so much more euphoric, and still lasts quite some time for me. I have only tried loprazolam IV, so I cannot report on it orally yet. As for 0.3mg loprazolam IV; great effects for such a tiny dose. Didn't rush/kick in quickly though, but it made up for it with a very long duration compared to midazolam.
Unfortunately, buprenorphine can be very addictive to certain individuals. I have seen people want to use large doses of buprenorphine, IV'd, one after the other (in a time frame where they would do 5 to 8 shots to my 1.) so I think it's best avoided if you are seriously "addicted" or have psychological issues with addiction. I found buprenorphine not addictive at all, and can often go most of a day without it without much WD symptoms. :D
All in all, the IV route is optimal with buprenorphine. I haven't tried IM, and would like to, but am still investigating.
It's harder to keep buprenorphine use in check with IV use because it's very easy to re-dose often, so you have to keep yourself busy, and to use low doses like you mentioned.
I am currently using 50mcg per shot (in 5 units of bacteriostatic water) and am planning on continuing to taper lower.
Buprenex was designed as a pain management drug, because the IV/IM routes of buprenorphine have a great deal of pain relief that the sublingual ROA doesn't have. IV use of this drug isn't *as* addictive as, say heroin, because of the time until onset. With most addictive/euphoric drugs (cocaine, heroin, meth, ketamine, dilaudid, MDA, midazolam, etc) upon IV (I have tried all of these separately IV'd) you should have a rush/high within 10-20 seconds at the very longest.
Time until onset effects why drugs are addictive (Xanax is preferred by many benzo users because it kicks in quick and is potent, crack is more addictive than cocaine, meth smoked or IV is about as addictive as each other; the time until onset is about the same, smoked is probably quicker, you feel it before you exhale on a huge hit). With buprenorphine, you still have to wait 1-2 minutes after an IV injection to feel the onset. Sometimes it's less, often more. It doesn't bother me at all, as I am pretty patient. I feel that an intravenous injection of buprenorphine is a lot like coming up on a snorted line of powder heroin; by 5-15 minutes you will be feeling it. By 20-30 you should be peaking.
Out of all of the drugs I have tried IV (that I listed here); the only ones which have great advantage IV'd, meaning in my opinion (for me) the drugs worth injecting intravenously again were; buprenorphine, MDA, methamphetamine, midazolam. Heroin and dilaudid are included but I listed them separately because I have quit full agonist opiates; if I was still a full agonist opiate user, I would have listed dilaudid only probably, because heroin has good IV effects but the IN route is so good too. I'm so glad I quit so I can think about it like this without thinking about all the negative stuff that is in the past. %)
Ketamine is best taken IM, methamphetamine is probably more ideal if smoked for most people but I just personally hate the flavor and the rush is solid - it's not worth IVing methamphetamine for most people though! Stick to smoking. Missing a shot is more painful than missing a shot of any of these (other than unfiltered dormicum... never happened to me but i can only imagine what missing with that chalky pill would do to one.)
Some people really like IV cocaine, and it is a nice "novelty" experience (only did it with 1 batch due to unbelieveably good purity
) - it's better taken snorted (other BL'ers say oral is a good exp. too if you have enough of it, but I wouldn't do it that way just because i don't like stimulants, and if I was going to do stimulants, I would prefer amphetamines - d-amp or d-methamp). As far as benzos go, there's no need to IV flurazepam (shortens the duration and isn't very efficient due to the ghastly amount of filler in each capsule) even though it's the most water soluble benzo, ironically. As for midazolam, it is good orally (long lasting too...) but IV is so much more euphoric, and still lasts quite some time for me. I have only tried loprazolam IV, so I cannot report on it orally yet. As for 0.3mg loprazolam IV; great effects for such a tiny dose. Didn't rush/kick in quickly though, but it made up for it with a very long duration compared to midazolam.
Unfortunately, buprenorphine can be very addictive to certain individuals. I have seen people want to use large doses of buprenorphine, IV'd, one after the other (in a time frame where they would do 5 to 8 shots to my 1.
) so I think it's best avoided if you are seriously "addicted" or have psychological issues with addiction. I found buprenorphine not addictive at all, and can often go most of a day without it without much WD symptoms. :D
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
It's going to be fun for me to figure that out! I'm still pretty high from it.
%)I think I am particularly sensitive to opiates though and I think that there's a lot about the endogenous opiates/endorphins system we don't know yet.
I also have successfully trained myself to inject one handed on myself, very handy lol. For some veins I prefer to have assistance, on some it's extremely easy for me to do it with one hand.
I'm thinking if I taper slow enough, I should get good effects for a while. 10 units of buprenex solution would be 0.03mg (I'm at 0.05mg per shot) - so may be that's the minimal threshold dose? Something around that? I was thinking of going to 0.025mg since that's half of where I am at now. I might just do 0.04mg and work my way down 0.01mg at a time, lol.
Znegative
Bluelight Crew
Yeah, I can feel .5 mcg, it just doesn't last nearly long enough for my liking, which is why I've been dosing at .15 mcg.. I just got a bunch of opana's as a gift though, so I'm taking another break (i know, shame on me..)
I feel like I.V buprenorphine is addictive, it's just NOT as addictive as other drug's I.V'd. The weird thing about it, is that I immediately feel a little relief if I'm in withdrawal, and then about 5 minutes later, it comes in as a second wave, which is when some mild euphoria and stimulation occurs. To tell you the truth (I'll probably get a lot of hate for saying this) I actually think I.V bupe has just as much, if not more of a rush that OC... then again, it does NOT have the high!
I feel like I.V buprenorphine is addictive, it's just NOT as addictive as other drug's I.V'd. The weird thing about it, is that I immediately feel a little relief if I'm in withdrawal, and then about 5 minutes later, it comes in as a second wave, which is when some mild euphoria and stimulation occurs. To tell you the truth (I'll probably get a lot of hate for saying this) I actually think I.V bupe has just as much, if not more of a rush that OC... then again, it does NOT have the high!
bev49
Greenlighter
You definitely should NOT take sub until you are in withdrawal. Sub is so strong it will knock everything else off the receptors and put you into precipitated w/ds. I switched to sub from methadone and had to wait a full 72 hours before starting the sub. Not fun. But I know people who have gone through precipitated w/d's and that's even less fun. I've been on sub for 2 years and I don't like it. I never get the burst of energy I got from methadone and heroin before that. I don't feel them at all. I take .5 sublinguily. I am getting ready to switch back to methadone because I have learned that nothing whatsoever will work for pain when on sub. If you need surgery you need to be off sub 4-5 days first. If you have an emergency you're shit out of luck and sub is the worst pain killer out there. So in my personal experience, switching from methadone to sub was a mistake.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Buprenorphine has a rush and a high to me but I am very sensitive to opiates.
When I IV'd 15mg of oxycodone, I was high for 2-3 hours and rushing for the first 20-30 minutes.
chrisinabox
Bluelighter
Hey, I know it is common knowlege that buprenorphine has a higher affinity than naloxone and that is it the buprenorphine itself that can send one into precipitated withdrawal. Lots of people don't know this and I usually have to correct them. Well I corrected someone today, but they just won't believe me without 'proof' so since I can't remember where it was that there was proof, can someone help me out and explain this? Proof that it is the bupe itself that sends one into precipitated withdrawal and that it has a higher affinity for the mu opioid receptors that is.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
The proof is in the pudding. Many people IV Suboxone and do not go into precipitated WD because it's a crock of shit. Watch enough people do it and not get sick = you can realize it's not true.
I can dig up an opiate binding affinity chart or I can smoke weed and unwind after a long day of moderating/taking care of business/working out.
It's something that should be relatively easy to find.
I can dig up an opiate binding affinity chart or I can smoke weed and unwind after a long day of moderating/taking care of business/working out.
It's something that should be relatively easy to find.
Znegative
Bluelight Crew
I feel like the naloxone "myth" is one of the biggest pharmaceutical scams I've ever heard. TBH, I think they should give people the option of buprenex, it would be great if I could just be honest with my psychiatrist as to how I use the drugs she prescribes. It just adds another thing on to the already large list of why I'm a crappy junky.
----
Captain,
I'm surprised by your experience with I.V oxycodone. I mean, there was a rush, but it was so minimal, especially compared to heroin. I just felt like one second I wasn't high, the next second I tasted dope, and I was high. The duration was also very short for me, but perhaps it's because when you used you were on less buprenorphine then me, and of course everyone is different.
----
Captain,
I'm surprised by your experience with I.V oxycodone. I mean, there was a rush, but it was so minimal, especially compared to heroin. I just felt like one second I wasn't high, the next second I tasted dope, and I was high. The duration was also very short for me, but perhaps it's because when you used you were on less buprenorphine then me, and of course everyone is different.
Ashley26
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2008
- Messages
- 210
well I'm going back on subs, simply cause I can't afford my oxy habit right now. I have 3 months of subs so I'm set for awhile. I really wanteed to sell them but couldn't find anyone to buy them. Might as well use them myself. Feeling nervous for the first few days again cause I know how crappy ill feel :/
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Buprenex would be great for me because I use low doses, for most poeple who are using > 0.3mg per dose, or around there but don't want it in 1 cc, it may get tedious.
Plus Suboxone is so much more potent. I am researching to see what gets through after filtration.
I totally agree with you though man if I could get buprenex I would in a heartbeat.
Yeah my friend who had them was used to it so she used a whole 30 in a shot, I split a 30 with a friend, and that was enough for me for a decent high. It wore off a little before dilaudid would. That's why I never really had a desire to repeat the experience.
Yeah everyone is different that is for sure. %)
Good luck Ashley! You will adjust quickly and feel better on Suboxone! :D
I am really glad that you are at least giving Suboxone another shot, and I hope everything works out for you. Make sure to get plenty of fluids, food, exercise, sleep, relaxation, and if needed, take some antihistamines or occasionally a benzo.
Suboxone should really minimize the "crappiness" you feel so don't worry about it, just go into it knowing you're going into this with will power and will surely do great. :D
It's always exciting when people are giving Suboxone a try because it really did help me save my life from utter catastrophe.
- Status