Why isn't Ecstasy legal?

[bagman2389]

How would legalisation work?

Hi I am new but this is a subject that really interests me.

How would legalisation actually work?

Imo Drug licences could be given to venues for the sale of only one drugs e.g MDMA.

The license would cost the establishment a certain fee but to obtain the license staff must be fully trained in recognising the too mashed and have the right to refuse sale.

Only one drug is available to minimise adverse reactions to concoctions.
The drugs have to be bought from goverment suppliers who will restrict sale to a certain degree therefore ensuring no selling on.

The venue has to provide a recuperation area.

This way the venue can charge entry fee and for sale of the pills etc as well as water soft drinks.

This ensures non users who are offended by drug use dont have to encounter it

Also allows massive revenue as goverment generates income from lisences taxes and VAT as well as purchasing the drugs.

First thread so please expand whether its tearing this to pieces or supporting and add in your own ideas.

Also i am aware in my life time this will never happen as the masses view us all as criminals who beat old ladies up to obtain the money for our self destructing activities lol

 

[AylaV]

I believe the people that would need drugs licenses would be the users. Prove that they understand the positive and negative effects of the drug in order to obtain a license. If they destroy their lives with said drug well.. you warned 'em right? =P

 

[bagman2389]

Its an interesting idea the problem is then the fact that people who lose their license but still want the drugs may then get other people to buy it for them potentially leading to a dealer type situation. however requiring them for entry into these clubs would be a good idea

 

[AylaV]

i haven't fully fleshed out the idea, yet. It should be noted that a license would still make things much more legal and greatly reduce the occurrence of illegal actions. It would become akin to what happens when kids steal their parents pain pills.

 

[augustaB]

I don't think that if there was legalization you could restrict use to specific venues.
In fact such a restriction would probably not have the beneficial effects that legalization could entail, i.e. reduced spending on law enforcement, reduction of revenues to drug gangs, etc, because there would still be a demand for off-venue use and somebody would have to enforce the law.
Përsonally I think that legalization could only be effected by selling through specialized retailers: drugstores?
It would be illegal to sell drugs to minors, and there would be draconian measures in effect to implement this rule.
There would be health warnings on the package. Sales could only be made in small quantities. There would be a user information leaflet enclosed.
Abuse would have to be policed far more by social pressure than it is today. After all drunkenness is only tolerated in certain social settings. This would call for a massive public education drive about drugs aimed at harm reduction and awareness.
Personally I think that all drugs should be available, but I realize that this is an extreme libertarian position that might not be politically feasible.
Perhaps the opiates should be regulated in some way: e.g. available on doctor's prescription only, but the rest should be fairly easy to obtain. If only simply to stop entire law enforcement budgets being spent on the "war on drugs"

 

[AylaV]

I agree all drugs should be available. I think regulations are still important, however. Even a libertarian style government would need some regulation or it becomes anarchy.

 

[Jakobe]

MDMA should never be legal, way to many kids would abuse the living fuck out of it if they could buy it at a store.

Way to many kids abuse the fuck out of it currently, but making it legal just makes it ok in their minds.

 

[rincewindrocks]

This way the venue can charge entry fee and for sale of the pills etc as well as water soft drinks.

This ensures non users who are offended by drug use dont have to encounter it

um, you mean like how people who don't drink but go to bars for shows don't have to encounter alcohol? /sarcasm

I believe the people that would need drugs licenses would be the users. Prove that they understand the positive and negative effects of the drug in order to obtain a license. If they destroy their lives with said drug well.. you warned 'em right? =P

You don't need a license to drink alcohol or smoke ciggies, so if MDMA were legalized, I think it would follow the same pattern.

MDMA should never be legal, way to many kids would abuse the living fuck out of it if they could buy it at a store.

Way to many kids abuse the fuck out of it currently, but making it legal just makes it ok in their minds.

It's been proven that it's easier for kids to get ahold of MDMA than it is for them to get alcohol. Why? Because you can only buy alcohol in a store (except for a few bootleggers and the like, but they are far fewer and further between than X dealers). If MDMA were regulated, instead of banned, it would actually mean fewer kids doing it, because it would be a larger hassle for a street level dealer to get ahold of, and the big suppliers would just be selling to clubs and the like, because its legal and guaranteed.

As for them thinking its OK, well, most people who use any drug justify it somehow, be it caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, weed, MDMA, meth, heroin, whatever. If they truly thought it wasnt ok, they wouldnt be doing it.

 

[Dahli]

I think the only way for this sort of thing to even begin happen is a long term shift in the thinking and treatment of drug use in general (which is already starting with weed.)

As of now, when it comes to drugs there's only two categories of use: abuse and dependency. Anyone who uses drugs is cast in a negative light and seen as both out of control and weak. There's no such thing as responsible use in the eyes of society. And as far as society is concerned, all drug users of criminals, no matter who they are in their day to day life (school kid, business man, house wife.) And making these drugs more acceptable to "criminals" is just out of reach of societies acceptance.

Super sad, but maybe this will change in the future. Society is beginning to view weed in a different light already. I can't foresee a future where heroin will be available at Walgreens though.

But even if MDMA isn't made available at drugstores or clubs, it'd be nice if they ended this "war on drugs" and just let users use and focus more on educating people on the effects drugs have on your body instead of just telling kids "They're bad and they do nothing good for you. End of story." Because once you learn that they in fact make you feel really really good, that whole web of "drug education" quickly breaks down.

 

[AylaV]

Teaching abstinence leads to ignorance for those who choose not to abstain.

 

[Sentience]

I think some drugs should be totally legal, like buying Kava or beer from the store....and other drugs should be 'decriminalized' so that they are not marketed in vending machines next to school playgrounds but if you do get caught with some its barely a slap on the wrist and privacy laws will supersede drug enforcement as a matter of priority.

 

[bagman2389]

um, you mean like how people who don't drink but go to bars for shows don't have to encounter alcohol? /sarcasm

Yes but those people know that place has a licsense so if they ae offended by alcohol you dont have to go. If everywhere was full of pill heads i think people with a problem with drugs will be angry and complain that everyones on drugs too much

 

[Sentience]

People are ALREADY on pills everywhere you go. America is one of the most medicated countries in the world, some of it legal and some illicitly purchased. Our drug laws have done NOTHING to keep Americans from becoming pill heads, and we have sacrificed the well being of 2 million prisoners, many of whom are non-violent drug users.....we have more prisoners than any country on earth per capita as well as total....more than countries who have 6x our population. Nobody has more people in prison than we do.

"um, you mean like how people who don't drink but go to bars for shows don't have to encounter alcohol? /sarcasm"

I dont understand what you are trying to say.



Some drugs should be no more regulated than alcohol. Others probably shouldnt be available at every corner liquor store, but when they do show up, we dont need to put people in prison for 20 years over them.

 

[Dahli]

It seems we have this notion in America that even a recreational drug user is hurting everyone around them somehow, especially society. I've heard people argue that buying drugs encourages crime. No, making drugs illegal encourages crime. Drug makers/pushers having to hire security to keep their product safe, which means hiring violence and forming gangs. I think if penalties weren't so harsh makers/pushers/trafficers/users wouldn't have to resort to violence to get their drug of choice.

The problem with making it totally legal though is that it will move into the government's hands to determine how to administer the drugs and how to tax them, which means it would be much much harder for us end users to get. In the end, I think that would be in the government's best interests: Less drug users since they can't obtain them, yet more money for those willing to pay.

As for our interests... I don't ever think we'll see a world where MDMA will be sold at clubs, but if they made the penalties not so harsh, that'd probably work best for us. *shrug*

 

[t.ska]

id rather have US laws changed from felony possession charges to misdemeanor charges. that be a nice start

 

[The Smoking Man]

MDMA should never be legal, way to many kids would abuse the living fuck out of it if they could buy it at a store.

Way to many kids abuse the fuck out of it currently, but making it legal just makes it ok in their minds.

Ideally you'd want to 100% prevent people from abusing it into etardation, but there is no such way. The next best thing would be unbiased, objective education about the effects of MDMA, but what's being offered by the government for that kind of education right now is 100% biased and is riddled with opinions, myths, and inaccuracies. (I was forced to sit through drug classes for a week last year... I'm hardly exaggerating.) That, and trying to teach flawed information, when kids realize it's grossly inaccurate, they tend to not take any advice about abstaining or moderating use at all, even if it's objective, unbiased and supported by studies.
All criminalization leads to is:
- The police force having many more targets for their oppression and to keep up with their quotas
- Overpopulated prisons, wrecking the lives of non-violent drug users by stamping their criminal records with misdemeanors and felonies and potentially having their time taken away in prison, having to give up some of their rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights due to supervised probation, legal fees, etc. etc.
- Drugs being cut or replaced with other nasty substances (like everyone's beloved pipes and meth bombs)
- An overall decrease in faith in the government, also causing an overall decrease in morale
- Giving organized crime a very lucrative cash cow
- Hindering medical research and treatment
- Drug tests, either due to the legal system or for jobs, leading to people attempting possibly dangerous or even deadly methods of defeating said tests
- Costs billions of tax dollars each year, tax dollars that could have gone towards public services or something else instead
You know, little things like that. Notice that "overall reduction of drug abuse" is nowhere in that list.

 

[stu_the_smackhead]

Users should have to complete some kind of test/questionaire to show their knowledge of the substance they are taking and that they know all the ins and outs. Emphasis on the fact that quitting can be done and maybe other optional help should be given. If it shows that the person knows what they are doing, seem responsible (criminal record check) then their drug should be allowed to be bought from a specialised outlet. The test and questionaire could be used to determine their usage and so the amount that person can buy will be limited somewhat.
This discourages criminal activity in 2 ways. Dealers wont be able to compete with purity and price
Users will attempt to keep out of bother with the law so that their legal supply is not stopped.

I dunno that was probably just all a load of shit, im a little fucked atm

 

[AylaV]

Users should have to complete some kind of test/questionaire to show their knowledge of the substance they are taking and that they know all the ins and outs. Emphasis on the fact that quitting can be done and maybe other optional help should be given. If it shows that the person knows what they are doing, seem responsible (criminal record check) then their drug should be allowed to be bought from a specialised outlet. The test and questionaire could be used to determine their usage and so the amount that person can buy will be limited somewhat.
This discourages criminal activity in 2 ways. Dealers wont be able to compete with purity and price
Users will attempt to keep out of bother with the law so that their legal supply is not stopped.

I dunno that was probably just all a load of shit, im a little fucked atm

This is exactly what I was saying and, as such, I don't think it's a load of shit at all. That was much better worded than what I said.

 

[bagman2389]

the dealers will still be a problem as people who cannot buy drugs due to failing the test will then create a demmand for suppliers to these failees. These people will thereofre pay more for the drugs as its the only way for them to obtain them, purity would not be an issue as a dealer could easily pass a knowledge test etc.

 

[Mr. Wobble]

Its an interesting idea the problem is then the fact that people who lose their license but still want the drugs may then get other people to buy it for them potentially leading to a dealer type situation. however requiring them for entry into these clubs would be a good idea

Exactly. We obviously can get the drugs even though they are illegal now, a license would do nothing except give you the option of getting it in a club (legally).