Opiate PAWS symptoms?

Same^^..4 months clean and even on subs and i still have major anhedonia, lack of motivation, lack of emotions, more anger problems than i've ever had, sever depression, social isolation, not being able to/care for solializing with family or friends. it sucks, i'm thinking i should either go back on heroin where i was at least happy SOME TIMES...now i am happy NO TIME or just killing myself. What a fucking trade off, eh? It's really disheartening getting clean and feeling worse sober than when you were a junkie.

Your not alone, brother! I feel the same way since giving up dope! Took the words right out of my mouth. At least we were happy SOMETIMES while using but, now it's all very bleak and I isolate myself...then again, when I was on dope I REALLY isolated myself from my family and friends cuz I was too busy using, sure you know how that is:\

People that have never been a junkie just can't even comprehend what we go through although they are the first people to cast stones at you, right? Thats been the roughest part for me....everybody thinking "Oh she quit heroin now, so everything is ok."8)

Hang in there man! It's good to still see ya around on BL! I remember when you first came around and were still struggling to get clean but now YOU DID IT! So pat yourself on the back man, give yourself some credit!:)
 
bagofchina-i hear ya brother...i have been clean fromopiates for 4 plus years and i still have major hurdles toovercome...can i stay sober, sure i can but i find it hard as hell to work all week and then come the weekend just resign myself to watchingt movies or going out to eat for 'fun'...the sober people i know are very nice and have their shit together but i hate to say it, their lives are 'boring' to me..where is the excitement, where is thr reward for working all week??i used to love just the thought of looking forward to taking GHb and going out and hanging with friends..now that im sober, there are many times i dont even see the point in going out with friends as its the same old shit....that type of rush or excitement just isnt there anymore without certain drugs..not sure how to replace that..sure i could go to a meeting and talk about sobriety over and over but imo that isnt exactly what i call an interesting life...then again, its better than being dopesick so i dunno..

georgie-hard to say whether thera efaking it or not but a very popular saying in those meetings is 'fake it until you make it'...
 
went to this n.a. conventon tongiht. still dont get the god thing . day 8 off dope , only 1 mg sub and im hurting
 
Your not alone, brother! I feel the same way since giving up dope! Took the words right out of my mouth. At least we were happy SOMETIMES while using but, now it's all very bleak and I isolate myself...then again, when I was on dope I REALLY isolated myself from my family and friends cuz I was too busy using, sure you know how that is:\

People that have never been a junkie just can't even comprehend what we go through although they are the first people to cast stones at you, right? Thats been the roughest part for me....everybody thinking "Oh she quit heroin now, so everything is ok."8)

Hang in there man! It's good to still see ya around on BL! I remember when you first came around and were still struggling to get clean but now YOU DID IT! So pat yourself on the back man, give yourself some credit!:)

Good to hear from you too! And yeah being sober does has it perks as well, mainly not waking sick every single day and having to drive to the ghetto before being able to do anything.. As time goes by though I am starting to embrace living sober (well on suboxone) but i have no idea how I'm gonna be when getting off the subs.

Yeah my family thought everything would be back to normal once I detoxed off dope...obviously not though.

Are you still clean btw?
 
Hey guys checking in . day 9 off dope. made it with 1 mg subs yesterday . trying .5 mg today .................... may have to take more later , we shall see.
its tough measuring out the small doses off 8 mg pills
 
hehe so true about trading one addiction for another just feel im wired for addiction if not opiates/benzos its food/excercise/designer label shopping bit more healthier but still taxing on your wallet find myself spending loads on organic food in waitrose sumthing like wholefood market place in states get to checkout im amazed how much i spent and dont really have enuff for a few decent meals
 
Good to hear from you too! And yeah being sober does has it perks as well, mainly not waking sick every single day and having to drive to the ghetto before being able to do anything.. As time goes by though I am starting to embrace living sober (well on suboxone) but i have no idea how I'm gonna be when getting off the subs.

Yeah my family thought everything would be back to normal once I detoxed off dope...obviously not though.

Are you still clean btw?

Yes and no. I'm not using everyday but I have used several times over the past few months. I have also became addicted to Lorazepam now so I take that on a daily basis. But, I keep trying to get back on track...and I'm doing quite well this week.:D Glad to see you are doing better honey!;)
 
3 weeks and a few days of opiates and 4 days off klonopin. Feels good.

belfort-

sounds pretty familiar to me, this past 1.5 yr I have completely cut ties with my old friendships [almost completely] but I do feel like I am missing that 'thrill' of excitement that I used to get from going out or even just staying home and getting high. Funny because I never really noticed that in the past but now that I am kinda in a slo-motion hum-drum lifestyle it seems like something is missing [which there probably is].

It seems like I am always waiting for something to happen but it seems nothing ever does. I am clean though off everything I wanted to be and that is a HUGE deal but now that I am here its like uh now what? Hang out with people from meetings that works somewhat but alot of those ppl are still taking meds. Just today I was hanging out with some kids playing frisbee golf and a couple of them were skipping off to the car to snort there bupe. It didnt really bother me but I did think about asking them for a bump. Why? I have never felt anything from bupe and I started to tell myself oh its been 3 weeks maybe you will feel something. It sure might help with this minor rebound anxiety I am getting from stopping k-pins. For some reason I didnt open my mouth and say anything. That I am happy about now. I dont know rambling...

Jake-

For me the best way to measure out small doses of bupe is to powderize the pill and than split it up into 8 piles [1mg each] soo much easier than taking little chips/pieces.

peace,
seedless
 
I am currently one week clean of opiates, just getting over withdrawal and feeling almost normal physically however I can tell I have a lot of emotional and mental adjusting to do.

The scariest thing is I can't seem to have any sort of focus in life. I feel like I'm solely a reactive being incapable of action. I can think of things I'd like to do but then I don't really see the point in pursuing it. For a lack of a better term I feel like my brain is fried. Is this typical of users getting off opiates or dope?

When can I expect to get my concentration and focus back in life.
I truly want to stay sober and am enrolled in IOP for the next 5 weeks.

Is what I'm going through normal?

It's definitely normal! Just about every addict goes through something similar to this once they sober up after years of drug abuse (I know I did). When you spend such a long period of time using drugs they often become the only thing that makes you happy so it's hard to re-learn how to be content again after believing the only thing that lifts your spirit is a drug high.

I promise you it will get better. Once you see that life is actually worth living without drugs you will start to feel better. It will definitely take time though. I suggest getting out and doing as many activities as possible. Do things you used to enjoy and more importantly, try new things you think you'll like. Maybe you'll find a new passion. I tried sky diving for the first time recently and it has become my new addiction :P It was the best high I've EVER experienced, and I honestly never thought there was any better high than feeling opiates course through my veins. Realizing that I was wrong has made me truly content once again for the first time in years.
 
^ hang in there. The fact you're reducing the sub dosage means you're going to experience some additional pain.

Well, I'm 38 days clean off opiates but I have a question.

Against better judgment I ate some ritalin to get some school work done last weekend. I don't feel like it set me off course or anything but I was wondering if it will interfere with PAWS to a significant degree. They say even one use of your drug of choice is enough to reset the counter for PAWS. Is this true for taking any mind altering substance or just ones that put your brain back in its "addicted" state? I wouldn't say stimulants put me in that state at all but I definitely got an increase in dopamine and all that while under the influence.

Basically what I'm asking is how much other substances will interfere with your recovery and their interaction with PAWS specifically. It's obviously a bad idea for anyone in recovery to take any substance but how consequential is it if it's not the drug you were addicted to? Does this make sense?
 
bagochina-there definitely is something missing it seems when you stop opiates...it has to be something related to endorphins because the times i feel the best when clean are when im exercising or lifting weights..those are the times i feel like nothing is missing..the void is filled..companionship, money, muscles, material possessions dont even come close to filling that void..it is maddening because you struggle to get clean but then there is a void and you feel not complete, and think 'wtf is going on?'...that void is very hard to explain...im not even talking about euphoria either...more to do with well-being maybe i dunno.....?
 
In my case, I found that travel helps a LOT. And you definitely CAN afford it since you're saving up from stopping your habit.

Just as a change of place can have a profound effect on tolerance, so will it affect everything else.

In fact, I'd say the only reason I ever relapsed was because I came back to this disgusting place.
 
PAWS and Low Dose Naltrexone

Hi Everyone,

I want to tell everyone about a therapy that is going to help you with your withdrawl and especially your PAWS. As you know withdrawal can be awful. Also, one needs to go through a detox program for opiate withdrawal under medical supervision. Once the initial withdrawal is over however, PAWS can last up to ten years (Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms), it can come from stressors such as anxiety, foods, illnesses etc.

PAWS can come out of nowhere in moon cycles such as 30, 60, 120 days for no apparent reason. It has something to do with your neurotransmitters in the brain. For the longest time you have used synthetic endorphins which gives you that artificail high. Over time your body, brain and peripheral endorphin receptors are upregulated (many more of them around). When you stop taking the synthetic endorphins, a.k.a opiates, your body and brain have forgotton how to make their own endorphins and now you have thousands of screaming endorphin receptors thirsty for endorphins or opiates and none are delivered. Then you go into withdrawal whereby your adrenaline/epinephrine autonomic nervous system runs wild un-balanced from any calming effects endorphins because you cannot produce enough. So how do we get our receptors and brains back in order. Well it takes time. But some people's PAWS are as bad as their acute withdrawal. So how do we help bridge the gap to health.

First lets see what PAWS is and get educated about it. It is the reason why most people relapse into drug taking or alcohol again. Follow this link then come back and read the rest of my thread please. You are very close to getting help.

http://www.tlctx.com/ar_pages/paw_part1.htm

....Okay you are back and now ready to tackle your long term recovery. Firstly, you need to know that you can beat this. But you have to be motivated.
To reduce PAWS you need to:

1. Exercise regulary each day to increase your own natural endorphins. Please talk to your doctor before embarking on any physical activity that you are not already use to.

2. Eat healthy. You need to replenish your amino acids, proteins etc. to help heal those brain receptors. Vitamins too but these can make you feel like crap for a few hours as for some reason they stimulate the adrenergic system. But it is short lived and I believe multivitamins and fish oils are healthy. But again, talk to your docotr. I know I keep saying this throughout but it is important because I want you all to be safe. For example fish oils can thin your blood and cause bleeding etc.

3. Recognize PAWS and know that emotionally you are more high strung and sensitive when it comes around. Let your loved ones around you know this.

4. Stop lying to yourself and others. This often times goes along with any addiction. The truth about your problem will set you free. Do not be ashamed. Many of strong men and women have been under the control of a substance and had to fall before getting back up. You are not alone.

5. Some caffeine, or any foods with high sugar etc can stimulate your adrenergic/adrenaline system and can make you feel terrible or stimulate PAWS so be careful with those types of foods at the beginning. You will get back to being able to take in a little more of those in the future.


Now to the best and I believe most important therapy to tackle PAWS and withdrawal. Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN). Many people going through withdrawal and PAWS use Methadone and Suboxone to keep off drugs etc. However, I beleive these are just substituting one addiction for another. Over the long run, this is not the road to recovery. Now do not stop these abruptly and you cannot go on LDN if you are still taking narcotics/alcohol or on methadone or suboxone treatments. You must talk to your docotor and under their supervision, you need to get off of those drugs before getting on LDN.

But do not worry, LDN helps stop or drastically reduce the withdrawal syptoms until after only a few months they virtually go away.

With the prescription of a doctor, one should be off all narcotics, including suboxone and methadone at least 10 days before staring LDN therapy. Going off of suboxone and methadone abruptly can be dangerous so do it under a medical program or facility please.

For LDN...
It is recommended to start at 2 mg every night before going to bed. The range of effectiveness is between 1.5 mg and 4.5 mg per night. Anything above or below that dose does not increase your natural endorphins but decreases them and makes you feel horrble. You must do this under a doctors supervision because LDN, although very safe and with little side effects can produce liver effects and blood pressure drops, especially if you are on antihypertensives.

How does it work? Well, by taking it at night your endorphin produsing receptors are shut down for a few hours. But by morning this limited shutdown casues a sling shot effect meaning your brain produces 100s of times the amount of endorphins to calm the withdrawal and actually improve your immune system too by default. Many people on LDN say that they don't get as sick from colds like they used to.

So LDN combats the withdrawal and PAWS by balancing against your adrenergic system which produces adrenaline unabated during withdrawal and PAWs and makes you feel horrible.

Over time, the LDN heals your brain and brings back your endorphin system to a better state. You can stay on it forever as it is affordable, has very few if any side effects and has other health benefits as well. People with high LDL cholesterol howeve can experience a slight bump and therefore need to be followed with some blood work. Also you liver must be healthy even though it is not hard on your liver in theory like high dose naltrexone is.

So on this you will get your life back. You may still experience PAWS from time to time for the next 5-10 years for those with the worst syptoms but it will be mild and you will be able to cope.

I have seen many patients on this regimen for different purposes and it works wonders. I am a health professional and have researched this thoroughly. Talk to your physician and really push for them to give it to you in the manner stated above after you have been detoxed off narcotics, methadone, suboxone etc. Some doctors have egos and don't like to listen to patient's ideas. I really detest that. Find one that will listen to you and follow you closely. It is a very benign and cheap drug that needs to be filled at a compounding pharmacy. Follow this link to read about where to get it and how it works for other diseases. Read, read read! The more knowledge you have about all this, the better you will be able to tackle your addiction withdrawal.

http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/

Good luck! Remember it takes your effort to stay healthy.
 
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Try Low Dose Naltrexone

^^in certain ways most definitely...i have more money, i can keep a job, i maintain physical health with exercise/diet.....the flipside of the coin is i have become more introverted, even more than i used to be...i simply dont even understand the idea of going out with friends or family, id rather just be left alone to my own hobbies whatnot..its like i get no reward or benefit from talking to people like i used to...my well-being hasnt gotten back to normal in those 4-5 years...after exercising i feel normal for a few hours but thats it... i definitely dont feel 'right' but its hard to explain..

i havent had a craving in 4-5 years though so thats a plus..i have friends that have been clean for 10 plus years, go to meetings ever day, are on meds yet they still get intense cravings...so i guess everyone is different with how they respond to getting clean...some do very well, some do terrible...i have heard dr drew pinsky even say its impossible to predict how someone will do once they get clean..

Belfort, read my reply about Low Dose Naltrexone. I think it may help you.
 
You can also take 0.75 of Low Dose Naltrexone. I've also read where patients had problems with LDN or ULDN. Some could not sleep, for some it made their depression worst, for some they felt back to PAWS after 2 weeks. I would not hold my breath with this LDN or ULDN. I think people just want to believe something works so to have hope, but what only helps is time and excercise from what I've read. Yeah so to the poster who said who can't take lower the 1mg your wrong, because many people when take a lower dose then that do well, but it's short-lived. Contrary to the belief there are side-effects i.e liver and muscle cramp/pains. One thing is for sure LDN does not work for suboxone PAWS because sub sticks in your receptors for a very long time. If anything it will make your sleep deprived state worse!...You can also take LDN in the morning if one wishes to so to improve sleep. Over all it's a hit and miss with LDN, eventually it stops working, thats what few long acting opiates said anyway.
 
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