• MDMA &
    Empathogenic
    Drugs

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ecstasy isn't as dangerous as we think

And i remember reading that meth permanantly shuts down dopamine receptors (or maybe it was damaging the axon?) not quite sure, just remember it was bad stuff. but who knows... just about anyone can write on the internet these days. All i know is I'd much rather be a e-tard than a meth head
 
Okay, I had a look at this thyroid/mdma link.

Results: "rodents and monkeys" - I am not a monkey, nor am I rodent.

I repeat my earlier point - if there is ANY danger with mdma - how come all the many thousands of people who have taken it over the years are (a) still alive (b) not filling up our hospitals?

Hmmm... scratches chin.

I do sometimes wonder if people want to believe it IS dangerous, thus heightening their 'forbidden' experience. - seriously. Once you get over the fact it's no more dangerous than an aspirin the effect/experience will probably change for some users.
 
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I know e-tards a very real thing which means it can be dangerous, BUT those people are usually doing a hugely excessive amount. On top of that, I don't really think an e-tard type response from a drug is that unique of a thing because people can take LSD and literally go insane (i've seen it happen), and someone who takes LSD in a hugely excessive amount will probably also end up frying their mind.

I don't propose to have an answer, just more questions.
 
roller11dude said:
reference?
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I would like to see a reference as well.

That "presumption" is waaaayyy off base. Please back it up with some substantial evidence. Saying that methamphetamine and other amphetamines aren't neurotoxic at all is not accurate.

And to say that mdma is far more neurotoxic is even more out of line. The truth is no one knows the true extent to which mdma is neurotoxic, the research just isn't there.
 
purplefirefly said:
I would like to see a reference as well.

That "presumption" is waaaayyy off base. Please back it up with some substantial evidence. Saying that methamphetamine and other amphetamines aren't neurotoxic at all is not accurate.

And to say that mdma is far more neurotoxic is even more out of line. The truth is no one knows the true extent to which mdma is neurotoxic, the research just isn't there.
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What he/she said - the research just isn't there. Although, with over 30 years of popular recreational use it might be fair to say that 'if' there are any dangers... they certainly aren't severe or particularly damaging.

Unless, of course, it's a bit like Blue Sunshine LSD where the drug remains dormant for 30 years and then we all suddenly lose our hair and go nuts!

Now, where did I put that axe?

(he said, drooling like a madman with clumps of hair in his hands.)



(okay, I know it was just a movie...)
 
montel said:
Okay, I had a look at this thyroid/mdma link.

Results: "rodents and monkeys" - I am not a monkey, nor am I rodent.

I repeat my earlier point - if there is ANY danger with mdma - how come all the many thousands of people who have taken it over the years are (a) still alive (b) not filling up our hospitals?

Hmmm... scratches chin.

I do sometimes wonder if people want to believe it IS dangerous, thus heightening their 'forbidden' experience. - seriously. Once you get over the fact it's no more dangerous than an aspirin the effect/experience will probably change for some users.
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How can you possibly say that there is no danger with MDMA? I will agree that it doesn't cause physical damage. Also for a drug is has a VERY low probability of causing death. Nothing new here.

But if you knew anything about how the brain works, you might realize that it's not only plausible, but I would even go as far to say PROBABLE or almost certain that using MDMA will cause you some sort of negative MENTAL effects, for atleast a short period of time, somewhat related to the amount of usage, and also dependant on the person.

You clearly don't realize the importance of serotonin in brain function. Tampering with it (ie. causing a massive release, and thus putting stress on the receptors and lowering stores in the axon) WILL have an effect on mood, sleep, appetite. Now it's only a question of how much of a change will occur. For many people its barely noticeable, and with a decent enough break the brain re-produce the serotonin it lost, and receptors should return back to normal. Even what most people on this site call 'over doing it' won't cause many noticeable changes in my opinion, but very subtle changes will be there at least for some time.

But to compare it to advil is just flat out wrong. You clearly don't know anyone who has over done it with this drug. I have tons of friends who can testify to this. Also pretty much every random i meet who says they used to/use alot of MDMA I ask them if they got sides, and 9/10 they say they did, at least to some extent. You just can't mess with you brain chemistry over and over without seeing any changes.

You can, however, mess with it every once in a while and most likely be able to avoid big/noticeable changes.
 
roller11dude said:
How can you possibly say that there is no danger with MDMA? I will agree that it doesn't cause physical damage. Also for a drug is has a VERY low probability of causing death. Nothing new here.

But if you knew anything about how the brain works, you might realize that it's not only plausible, but I would even go as far to say PROBABLE or almost certain that using MDMA will cause you some sort of negative MENTAL effects, for atleast a short period of time, somewhat related to the amount of usage, and also dependant on the person.

You clearly don't realize the importance of serotonin in brain function. Tampering with it (ie. causing a massive release, and thus putting stress on the receptors and lowering stores in the axon) WILL have an effect on mood, sleep, appetite. Now it's only a question of how much of a change will occur. For many people its barely noticeable, and with a decent enough break the brain re-produce the serotonin it lost, and receptors should return back to normal. Even what most people on this site call 'over doing it' won't cause many noticeable changes in my opinion, but very subtle changes will be there at least for some time.

But to compare it to advil is just flat out wrong. You clearly don't know anyone who has over done it with this drug. I have tons of friends who can testify to this. Also pretty much every random i meet who says they used to/use alot of MDMA I ask them if they got sides, and 9/10 they say they did, at least to some extent. You just can't mess with you brain chemistry over and over without seeing any changes.

You can, however, mess with it every once in a while and most likely be able to avoid big/noticeable changes.
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I'm no expert and I do respect your opinion - I also agree that it can cause some psychological damage, as you clearly state - my main point is that even though it may not be great for the brain - it's certainly not that bad, either.

Where do you stand comparing a hangover from alcohol to a comedown from a pill? One substance is perfectly legal and dandy - the other one is illegal and can get you sent to prison. Sure, I got the Tuesday blues every now and then but I'd take that over a thumping headache the next morning, wouldn't you? If you want me to bet on which one is damaging my brain more? My money's on booze.

I stand by my comparison with aspirin - In fact, by all accounts aspirin is far, far worse for you than mdma

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Dangers-of-Aspirin-Use!&id=149966

http://www.biomediclabs.com/dangers_of_aspirin

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...-off-heart-attack-risks-stomach-bleeding.html

I do know people who have very seriously abused mdma (myself included some years ago) and.... well... they're all fine. They were then, they are now.

How seriously did they abuse it? In some cases, every weekend and entering into double digits in one night, for some of them. From the doves of the early 90's to the mitsubishis of the late 90s to the pink kangaroos of the early 2000s. (and god knows what else in between ;) )
 
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^^ you and your friends did it every weekend without noticing any depression/anxiety/cloudyness?

Not to say that you havn't recovered from it, because i do believe that the brain has the power to heal/balance itself out when given what it needs. But I find it very hard to believe you could have used it that frequently and not noticed any side effects.

And I'd much rather a booze hangover than an MDMA hangover, and i don't even get depressed. I'm starting to notice i feel tired for like a week, sort of out-of-it. Then again my booze hangovers aren't bad either, just a bit of a headache (but thats what advil is for :) ) and feeling out of it for a few hour. But in general I'd much rather a minor headache then depression for a day or two (or more).

I'm not saying that MDMA is a terrible drug, I just don't believe it's harmless like you think. I would take all the sides from alcohol over MDMA any day. But then again, this is all my opinion based on what i know about the brain and the drug, and subjective experiences from myself and my friends.
 
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mdma is not harmless. It destroys your nueron receptors that control seratonin. Your a fucking moron (sorry but you are)

I first hand have had tons of problems with my mdma use. Sure its not the most DEADLY chemical you can do, but it has tons of mental side effects that are harmful.

And rollerdude glad we can agree somewhat for once ;)
 
Been a while since i posted.


I still have to say....

I really don't see how people have so many side effects from MDMA. I've seen countless poeple when i used to roll constantly and nothing ever happen to them

It was good then. Maybe its the adulterants that MDMA is being cut with.....

I know i've had anxiety issues since my recent come back to MDMA when i had a pipe pill....(still havent touched MDMA or seen any good pills around)


Other than that...nothing with heavy quality MDMA use in my days ever gave my friends and I any negative effects.....besides a hang over. (and that was a lot of people)


Maybe it does, but a part of me believes a lot of people's issues are also adulterants that almost all of the pills are being cut with...and molly.....
 
montel said:
Okay, I had a look at this thyroid/mdma link.

Results: "rodents and monkeys" - I am not a monkey, nor am I rodent.

I repeat my earlier point - if there is ANY danger with mdma - how come all the many thousands of people who have taken it over the years are (a) still alive (b) not filling up our hospitals?

Hmmm... scratches chin.

I do sometimes wonder if people want to believe it IS dangerous, thus heightening their 'forbidden' experience. - seriously. Once you get over the fact it's no more dangerous than an aspirin the effect/experience will probably change for some users.
Click to expand...

Myself and my friends who hammered it 1987 onwards are prime living examples of the dangers of short/long term abuse of MDMA on ones brain chemistry, 23 years on.
 
As a fairly new user who has rolled 16 times since 2008 and is in the middle of a 4 month break ... everyone that I know who over used in their day ie: rolling Fri-Sun every single weekend for years on end ...they have damage.

Anxiety and depression that they all need to take meds for. I am talking at least 5 people I know. I only know 1 person that this didn't happen too out of that group and I am married to this Superman :) of course none of them rolls like they used to. That's what happens from abuse of this drug.

It is thanks to these people and the people here on Bluelight plus my own constant research that has driven me to stop honeymooning and take breaks.

If it does cause serious damage, I hope to be one of the ones who escapes it by rolling responsibly. No more going 2 days straight with no food or sleep. No more going past normal dosage. Happy rolling everyone. PLUR
 
Not to flog a dead horse here...

...but can anyone (I repeat) explain to me why there haven't been any news reports describing a 'sudden increase' in people checking into hospitals with chronic brain damage (or any damage, for that matter) related to mdma?

It's been 30 years and god knows how many pills have been consumed over this period all across the globe.

I mean, just show me one report from one country where, after mdma has been taken by many (many) thousands of people, that suggests that what some of you are saying is actually true?

What I'm looking for is a report that states that "suddenly, x (country) is seeing a sharp increase in patients with severe psychological damage attributed directly to ecstasy use"

I'll gladly eat a big fat slice of humble pie if you can.

MDMA IS less harmful for you than aspirin - I've pointed you all to enough information to prove this point... and it didn't take much looking, either. (see my previous post)

Perhaps when people wake up and smell the coffee we might get a step closer (albeit a small one) to convincing the public at large, or those who wish to be informed, that it should be legalised and that there aren't any valid reasons why it shouldn't be? Telling us "all my friends are on meds" and going on about "we are living examples of the dangers of ecstacy" doesn't quite tally...

If what you say is true then it would surely be very easy for you to point me to something tangible to back up your claims. All I'm seeing is that you represent the 0.0001% of people whose lives have been 'ruined' by ecstacy - so much so that I would suggest there 'might' be other reasons for your problems... not eating perhaps? not sleeping, possibly? you know, obvious things that relate to your behaviour and NOT the direct effects of the drug itself when used sensibly.

It's easy to blame things that can't answer back - that's why politicians do it every day.
 
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naughtie said:
As a fairly new user who has rolled 16 times since 2008 and is in the middle of a 4 month break ... everyone that I know who over used in their day ie: rolling Fri-Sun every single weekend for years on end ...they have damage.

Anxiety and depression that they all need to take meds for. I am talking at least 5 people I know. I only know 1 person that this didn't happen too out of that group and I am married to this Superman :) of course none of them rolls like they used to. That's what happens from abuse of this drug.

It is thanks to these people and the people here on Bluelight plus my own constant research that has driven me to stop honeymooning and take breaks.

If it does cause serious damage, I hope to be one of the ones who escapes it by rolling responsibly. No more going 2 days straight with no food or sleep. No more going past normal dosage. Happy rolling everyone. PLUR
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Great post

"everyone that I know who over used in their day ie: rolling Fri-Sun every single weekend for years on end ...they have damage."

Every single weekend from friday to sunday... is it not remotely possible that chronic sleep deprivation over a (very) prolonged period might have messed up their brains instead?

Try not taking any drugs and stay up for three days if you really want to experience what it's like to feel your brain quite literally shutting down.

"Anxiety and depression that they all need to take meds for"

See point above - although what surprises me here is that you go on to say...

"of course none of them rolls like they used to"

and back that up with...

"That's what happens from abuse of this drug"

If they are on meds for anxiety and depression why on earth are they still rolling? I mean, what part of "this isn't good for me" have they failed to grasp? Have you thought about giving them some friendly advice?

"If it does cause serious damage, I hope to be one of the ones who escapes it by rolling responsibly"

You say "If it causes serious damage..." - If? If? ...what about the bit where your friends are on meds?

At this point I genuinely give up,

Feel free to now call me a pig ignorant moron/etc. (edit: actually, I'm a 'fucking moron', sorry.)


Peace.
 
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Has anyone considered any possible implications of perspective and potential psychological damage? I think maybe there is a correlation between the people who think it has serious damage causing potential and their perspective of it. This seems redundant but I have never had an amazing AND responsible night and felt depressed/anxious/regret for any of my actions. On the contrary, when I use and things get screwed up it is always really easy to blame the drug or assumed repercussions. Finally, when do you guys think we will actually start knowing the facts about the drug? What makes that a reality. That is what I want to know. Do we truly have a good grasp on the potential implications of any drugs we put into our bodies?
 
LonE1 said:
mdma is not harmless. It destroys your nueron receptors that control seratonin. Your a fucking moron (sorry but you are)

I first hand have had tons of problems with my mdma use. Sure its not the most DEADLY chemical you can do, but it has tons of mental side effects that are harmful.

And rollerdude glad we can agree somewhat for once ;)
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Sorry, I forgot about this post:

No, it doesn't 'destroy' your neuron receptors - what little research that has been done on mdma + brain is inconclusive at present. If there is any danger it's sure as shit doing a fine job of covering its tracks, that much is certain. (go back to one of my previous posts for the ABC report 'Ecstacy Rising' - I think you'll find some scientists and shit in there repeating the same thing... You know, those dudes in white lab coats who know more about this than you or me.

Of course, they could all be wrong - the source of your startling revelation is?

(please don't throw some crap about rodents and monkeys at me...)

"But why? They're just like us!"

When was the last time you took a taxi and it was being driven by a gorilla?

(or a rat, for that matter)
 
SpecialKid said:
Has anyone considered any possible implications of perspective and potential psychological damage? I think maybe there is a correlation between the people who think it has serious damage causing potential and their perspective of it. This seems redundant but I have never had an amazing AND responsible night and felt depressed/anxious/regret for any of my actions. On the contrary, when I use and things get screwed up it is always really easy to blame the drug or assumed repercussions. Finally, when do you guys think we will actually start knowing the facts about the drug? What makes that a reality. That is what I want to know. Do we truly have a good grasp on the potential implications of any drugs we put into our bodies?
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I totally agree with you - the psychological damage created by people who 'think' they have fucked up their brains is probably far more damaging than anything else when it comes to most illegal drugs... this is something that's been fascinating me for years - especially with cocaine - here you have a white powder that is (certainly in Europe) cut to high heaven with god knows what... the purity of which is probably less than 20 - 30% - How much of that 'high' is psychological and simply created by the user?

Although what really kicked me off was seeing someone on a piperazine pill 'behaving' as though they were on ecstasy - In this particular case I had (a) tested the pill - no reaction and (b) out of boredom, taken one myself - the effects on me were 'nothing at all' (and my wife as well.) - I was genuinely puzzled at how someone could persuade themselves they actually were high on mdma - yet they categorically weren't really high on anything.

This goes a long way to explaining the flood of piperazine pills in the UK in recent years.

...I really should be asleep.
 
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montel said:
Great post

"everyone that I know who over used in their day ie: rolling Fri-Sun every single weekend for years on end ...they have damage."

Every single weekend from friday to sunday... is it not remotely possible that chronic sleep deprivation over a (very) prolonged period might have messed up their brains instead?

Try not taking any drugs and stay up for three days if you really want to experience what it's like to feel your brain quite literally shutting down.

"Anxiety and depression that they all need to take meds for"

See point above - although what surprises me here is that you go on to say...

"of course none of them rolls like they used to"

and back that up with...

"That's what happens from abuse of this drug"

If they are on meds for anxiety and depression why on earth are they still rolling? I mean, what part of "this isn't good for me" have they failed to grasp? Have you thought about giving them some friendly advice?

"If it does cause serious damage, I hope to be one of the ones who escapes it by rolling responsibly"

You say "If it causes serious damage..." - If? If? ...what about the bit where your friends are on meds?

At this point I genuinely give up,

Feel free to now call me a pig ignorant moron/etc. (edit: actually, I'm a 'fucking moron', sorry.)


Peace.
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I am not going to call you names dude. Thanks for the response. I will take away whatever positivity I can from it. Hope your day gets better.
 
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