Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[qwe]

So why did my pupils get MASSIVE, along with other symptoms of precipitated withdrawal? I've only been taking .25-.5 sublingual or snorted for about 4 days now, so .5mg IV 24 hours after my last dose shouldn't have caused that. Im kinda high now, not too high, but feeling great.

one guess is that naloxone did get into your brain quicker due to different chemical properties. it wouldn't have caused PW but it could have given symptoms similar to WD

more probable is that the very act of taking the shot dialated your pupils and caused a psychosomatic "hey!" response from your body. when you take a shot, your body expects opiates to flood it shortly, and it gets ready. just like when you are about to eat your body prepares for digestion. stupid preparations, they're responsible for tolerance

it's all about equilibrium and homeostasis. eg if you take a pill your body reacts well before it takes effect, and if you're used to taking it, your body can swing in the opposite direction of opiates in antipication of those opiates

i'm not entirely sure about what i said but it makes a lot of sense to me and fits with my XP. then again, me right now isn't totally 100%

 

[qwe]

some simple Qs

* ps edit, new question: anything wrong with crushing the pill a lil with my front teeth to increase S.Area and increase dissolving the powder?
* any problem with swallowing the spit? (mind answering this Q before the 15min is up and i swallow the spit? hehe)
* do you really have to keep it in there 15min?
* any way to allow it to absorb any better?
* would snorting make much difference with BA, with whether the nal could get released more than otherwise? i can't get high sublingually, any chance i could insuffl?
* are there any opiates not effected by the receptor siege? tram, darvo are easy ones to get. as for stronger opiates, i don't really have much connect
* cimetidine --- bupe, yesno?
* when you get higher than 2/4/8mg, i know buzz effects are not going to increase, but could they DECREASE due to partial agonism and.or the ratio of nalox-bupre changing? could i take, for example, 4mg, feel only relief from withdrawal a lil, then take another 4, feel a lil better, than take some more and feel even better? or would going up be a complete waste as a buzz is only to be found in the 1-4mg range supposedly?

*** not looking to get high everyday. learned my lesson. just want to be able to dabble now and again

---



>>
my question is could i go up from 8mg to get some sort of pain relief or does it take time to build up. i am not wanting to experiment because i was knocked on my ass the first time.
>>

if you take a steady dose, the dose change in your blood does take a few days to take effect, yeah it builds up, similar to methadone or other drugs that you build up to a dose then wait for it to stabilize. HOWEVER that does not mean taking more now wouldn't do anything, you can take more now. it just means that if you're taking the normal amount it needs time to build up, but if you take a big dose first then your blood plasma concentration is already up there, and then you can take your normal dose after the initial high dose

keep in mind most people here say once you go greater than 2-8mg any increase in dose, while it may reduce cravings, it usually doesn't provide more pain relief or more buzz/high at those doses

>>
if i do bump up on this should i be on 16mg a day as prescribed for maintenance? i have been craving pretty bad too.
>>

like i said, you could do more initially to get the plasma concentration up there, and then take your normal dose. see how that goes? if after a few days of that (after the initial high dose) you feel steady in your dose yet not improved, perhaps you should try bumping your dose; before your ask your doc to bump you, try 16mg for a few days; you might not even get more benefit out of the higher dose anyway

good luck with the pain. i couldn't imagine not being trusted with painkillers if i had an accident or went to the hospital or whatever and they get shitty because my records probably include my methadone visits and suboxone dr. "contraindications: history of abuse.... give em some darvocet he'll be fine" 8)8)8) ahhhhhh! that'll suck

 

[Pegasus]

^I don't understand your post. Is it you asking these questions?

Anyways, my answers to the questions are as follows:

Regarding the spit, I'd say the majority gets absorbed before 15 minutes. I think within a few seconds of the individual molecules touching the membrane, they will be on their way through. Your spit will continue to have some that haven't stuck as the pill dissolves, but I think most quickly will absorb once in the spit. This is the impression I get from my test experiments with it.

Nasal absorption is significantly higher than sublingual, and is how I use my bupe pretty much every time now. I'd say it is almost twice as strong when insuffulated compared to sublingual use. The thing to remember about this is that doing this on a daily basis might not be the greatest of ideas because of the abuse to the nasal cavity that would be ongoing. I usually only use bupe for short increments of time, though, so it works out great for me.

I find the effects decrease after you hit "the sweet spot", and this is not unique to buprenorphine. For most people, I'd put this sweet spot in the <1mg to 2mg range.

If you're not getting pain relief from an 8mg dose, I wouldn't go up on the dose; I'd try another drug that is better suited for helping with pain. I would consider coming off bupe completely and just taking a regiment of a short-acting full agonist that would actually help with the pain... either that, or methadone.

16mg is a huge dose and most people will get only more side effects from increasing the dose past a high dose that they are already stable at (8mg in this case). Like I said before, you might actually be above the sweet spot and experiencing negative side effects instead of below it and not being fully covered. Something worth considering, IMO.

 

[Sorce]

Do not swallow the spit. The nalaxone is not absorbed in your mouth if you rinse it out first, it needs a more acidic environment. It is easier absorbed in the stomach. Rinse your mouth before and after and SPIT to minimize the naloxone absorption.

Source: a leading addictionologist.

 

[Pegasus]

^Hmm, I didn't even realize that was what was being asked. That said, the bioavailability of oral naloxone is only 2%...

 

[qwe]

^I don't understand your post. Is it you asking these questions?

the post was separated into two parts. the first (separated by "---") asking questions, the second part i was answering questions from quotes
>>Regarding the spit, I'd say the majority gets absorbed before 15 minutes. I think within a few seconds of the individual molecules touching the membrane, they will be on their way through. Your spit will continue to have some that haven't stuck as the pill dissolves, but I think most quickly will absorb once in the spit. This is the impression I get from my test experiments with it.>>
so no harm in swallowing either way then

* could anything increase absorption, eg, having an alcohol sip before sublingualling to help absorption? it'd change the chemical dynamics,would it change it in the way i'm looking for, opposite, or neither?

If you're not getting pain relief from an 8mg dose, I wouldn't go up on the dose; I'd try another drug that is better suited for helping with pain. I would consider coming off bupe completely and just taking a regiment of a short-acting full agonist that would actually help with the pain... either that, or methadone.

i can't do that. i could do methadone but it never lasted more than 12 hours (was at clinic and the regulations prevent me from takedowns--if i had takehomes, i'd split the dose into twice daily which i'm positive would have worked out great and wouldn't have required more dose increases, but they're sticklers about giving takehomes. one reason my by sub doc is better (not to mention insurance helping) but sub is not nearly as good as methadone when the methadone is working. maybe i shoulda tried cimetidine on methadone

either way, i have no pain issues. i said pain issues since its sorta equivalent to whatever dose is needed to feel "good" too. so i cannot go the oxycodone route, much as i'd love to

16mg is a huge dose and most people will get only more side effects from increasing the dose past a high dose that they are already stable at (8mg in this case). Like I said before, you might actually be above the sweet spot and experiencing negative side effects instead of below it and not being fully covered

i'm not. taking 4-8mg is doing alright. so you're saying just the "side effects" are from too much bupe? i get NO side effects from bupe. i feel sober basically. i cannot get high on bupe for anything, or feel either negative or positive effects. whether at 2,4,8,16,32+ (yea i was still in the behavioral routine of "take more opiate pill -- feel better")

i just tapered down to 2-4mg a day. ive been feeling alright so far but higher doses cover me a little better i think

 

[Sorce]

^Hmm, I didn't even realize that was what was being asked. That said, the bioavailability of oral naloxone is only 2%...

Exactly, assuming normal oral conditions. If there is increased acidity from food or drink, the bio availability is much higher. Rinsing before and after eliminates this problem

 

[Pegasus]

i'm not. taking 4-8mg is doing alright. so you're saying just the "side effects" are from too much bupe? i get NO side effects from bupe. i feel sober basically. i cannot get high on bupe for anything, or feel either negative or positive effects. whether at 2,4,8,16,32+ (yea i was still in the behavioral routine of "take more opiate pill -- feel better")

i just tapered down to 2-4mg a day. ive been feeling alright so far but higher doses cover me a little better i think

The whole point of my post was to say that higher doses bring more side effects. Really high doses almost always bring them primarily.

 

[Pegasus]

Exactly, assuming normal oral conditions. If there is increased acidity from food or drink, the bio availability is much higher. Rinsing before and after eliminates this problem

Source?

 

[qwe]

The whole point of my post was to say that higher doses bring more side effects. Really high doses almost always bring them primarily.

this isn't happening with me though. the more i take, i still feel like i do at 8mg. no side effects. no positive effects. it's like all i can do is feel sober on it, whether i take 32 or 2

the more i take, could that decrease the effects? im on 8mg atm. if i take 8mg more, should i feel ANY difference? or with these high doses, will not much change? do you get less high as you go up in dose cuz of the dynamics between nal, subox, receptors, and partial agonism?

 

[pally pete]

Buprenorphine sickness

i tried it today for the first time,i tried to break an 8mg sublingual tab up in to as many pieces as possible as i was advised to start off with 0.25-0.5 mg per dose.

anyway i made aright mess of it and i think i probably ending taking a dose of around 1mg...possibly more

that was just over 8 hours ago,it hit me hard and ive been completely fucked for hours now,been sick many times! 8(

even the water i drink just comes back up.when should the vomiting begin to subside?

any ideas when i should begin to feel a little less fucked? and should i just continue to drink water? is there anything i can do to get the buprenorphine out my sytem quicker?

im even worried about going to sleep right now....

any help appreciated,thanks

 

[fistful_of_needles]

Does anybody know how long it will take to test negative for buprenorphine on a blood test?Just a few weeks away from a blood test and it's imperative I have no opioids/opiates in my system ...I reckon it should be the same for H,namely about a week,not sure though...any help?

 

[DexterMeth]

You can easily look it up on Google, but in any case I can assure you 100% that you will pass negative if you don't use any until after the test. Bupe has a longer halflife than most all other opiates/oids, but it's still an opiod. It won't linger around for weeks.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Do anybody know how long it will take to test negative for buprenorphine on a blood test?Just a few weeks away from a blood test and it's imperative I have no opioids/opiates in my system ...I reckon it should be the same for H,namely about a week,not sure though...any help?

well its halflife is 36 hours so every 36 hours cut what you took in half so if you took 8mg, in 36hours there will be 4mg in your system, 72hours 2mg, 108hours 1mg, 144 hours .5mg, .... you get the point.

That's why w/ds from subs can take a couple days until you feel them, and why they last so long.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Source: a leading addictionologist.

That's not a source. That's hear say.

this isn't happening with me though. the more i take, i still feel like i do at 8mg. no side effects. no positive effects. it's like all i can do is feel sober on it, whether i take 32 or 2

the more i take, could that decrease the effects? im on 8mg atm. if i take 8mg more, should i feel ANY difference? or with these high doses, will not much change? do you get less high as you go up in dose cuz of the dynamics between nal, subox, receptors, and partial agonism?

I would say there is no difference, you may just have enlongated effects. If you stay on Suboxone for a long time, its effects may work better as your receptors naturally down-regulate back to normal.

If not, then "feeling sober" isn't too bad is it? Compared to WDing at least?

i tried it today for the first time,i tried to break an 8mg sublingual tab up in to as many pieces as possible as i was advised to start off with 0.25-0.5 mg per dose.

anyway i made aright mess of it and i think i probably ending taking a dose of around 1mg...possibly more

that was just over 8 hours ago,it hit me hard and ive been completely fucked for hours now,been sick many times! 8(

even the water i drink just comes back up.when should the vomiting begin to subside?

any ideas when i should begin to feel a little less fucked? and should i just continue to drink water? is there anything i can do to get the buprenorphine out my sytem quicker?

im even worried about going to sleep right now....

any help appreciated,thanks

Just try to ride it out. Buprenorphine is pretty strong, good luck with it. Are you having any other negative side effects other than vomiting?

well its halflife is 36 hours so every 36 hours cut what you took in half so if you took 8mg, in 36hours there will be 4mg in your system, 72hours 2mg, 108hours 1mg, 144 hours .5mg, .... you get the point.

That's why w/ds from subs can take a couple days until you feel them, and why they last so long.

7 half lives is most of the substance.

In a blood test they'll see a significantly low amount of buprenorphine if he hasn't taken any for 10 to 12 days.

 

[stuckinaloop]

yeah last time i met with an addictionologist he was so fucking stupid it was insane.

i was 12 days clean off everythign and in paws from opiate withdrawal...i wanted something to help me through namely clonidine.

well he gave me the big NO on clonidine and said suboxon ewas my only choice and at that time i wasnt trying to fuck with sub...ui already fucking made it through hell detoxing at home with just xanax. so he was pisse di didnt want sub and gave me tramadol...tramadol, insteaD of clonodine..what a fucking tool

 

[Suboxone]

I saw a new bupe doctor because I'll be finishing at the outpatient therapy place I've been at for 7 months soon. I found out that insurance (specifically HMO's) will not cover visits to doctors specifically for bupe, even though the doctor is now my PCP. The shitty part is that this doctor has agreed to switch me over to subutex rather than suboxone, so now that I've found this doctor I may not be able to see (and subsequently get the pills I've been trying to get out of my current doctor at the rehab for the last three months).

Has anyone had any trouble with this insurance thing? It seems like I may have to stay at a rehab as long as I want to stay on suboxone...

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I saw a new bupe doctor because I'll be finishing at the outpatient therapy place I've been at for 7 months soon. I found out that insurance (specifically HMO's) will not cover visits to doctors specifically for bupe, even though the doctor is now my PCP. The shitty part is that this doctor has agreed to switch me over to subutex rather than suboxone, so now that I've found this doctor I may not be able to see (and subsequently get the pills I've been trying to get out of my current doctor at the rehab for the last three months).

Has anyone had any trouble with this insurance thing? It seems like I may have to stay at a rehab as long as I want to stay on suboxone...

Nah, my doctor's visit was always covered by insurance.

Maybe you can get a new insurance plan?

It's nice the doctor agreed to switch you over.

 

[pally pete]

Just try to ride it out. Buprenorphine is pretty strong, good luck with it. Are you having any other negative side effects other than vomiting?

well im feeling better now just very drained and weak after my night of hell!

apart from the constant vomiting i was spinning out big time,could hardly walk,talk,didnt really know wtf was going on??!! at times felt like i was tripping out.

i will NEVER EVER try buprenorphine again.

orriible! orrible! experience

 

[Transcendence]

I'm astounded by how fast tolerance ramps up with Bupe. In the course of one solid week of daily recreational use, I went from 1mg flooring me to not even being satisfied with 4mg.