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RCs Arguement for Mephedrone

annaminx said:
in response to concerns over heart problems taking meph, the same an be said for any stimulent taken in excess....that includes caffine!
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No, you're completely wrong. The heart problems being talked about come from mephedrone's metabolite, 4-methylephedrine. Caffeine and most other stimulants do not have the negative effects on the heart and cardiovascular system that 4-methylephedrine does...

We're not talking about a raised heart rate, we're talking about damage to the veins and tissues they supply with blood, or abnormal growth of certain parts of the heart over other parts.
 
I sense something here. Yes, this must be self-justification for the use of mephedrone. It's become popular because it's still legal. However, from my experience with this drug it's in my subjective opinion more in feeling like some speedy amphetamine than some MDMA-like one.

It's been always like that. The drug is legal. Say, DOC here. It can be nowhere near good valuable psychedelics, yet it is praised. Why? Because people don't have contacts to get illegal psychedelics or they lack chemistry knowledge to synthesize it themselves. It's a matter of time this drug becomes illegal. Some countries have just put it on the list of illegal drugs this year. And I believe there are more to follow. What then?

Another "research chemical" shall appear. But as I look at this process, these new "research chemicals" are worse and worse. Just look how it all changed from methylone (beta-keto-MDMA). Mephedrone is just a short-acting stimulant with little to no effects similar to MDMA. Compare 4-MMA. It's nothing interesting. Why would something with a ketone group attached be interesting?
 
adder, DOC is way better than illegal psychedelics. It's my favorite long-lasting psychedelic.
 
there is my fave argument for anyone has a decent argument against id love to read it


Mephedrone is an argument we are seeing alot lately id just like to see an end to it .....there are even proposals for it to be a class A

Illegal ....maybe , Class A....NEVER
 
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OP, you can dillude yourself all you want into thinking Mephedrone is "fine" for you but there are serious concerns around it. the NUMBER 1 concern is it's so fucking new; there is no research, no testing, nothing, nada. That's a very scary concept to me.

I have taken the drug several times and it has been very enjoyable. And, no, I don't attribute neurotoxicity to a crash. I attribute some of it to how I feel afterwards. The most obvious being, my heart. As someone else mentioned, it just felt different. It felt strained, and had a sort of throbbing sense to it. Keep in mind, I would bomb the stuff and probably never go over 200 mg's in a sitting. I think that's a major red flag and I will not be touching the stuff again. I hope you tread carefully.

Tomer
 
PeterPlant said:
there is my fave argument for anyone has a decent argument against id love to read it


Mephedrone is an argument we are seeing alot lately id just like to see an end to it .....there are even proposals for it to be a class A

Illegal ....maybe , Class A....NEVER
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If you want to quote the "arguments for mephedrone" please do. Just don't link a site that sells it.
 
One really cute effect of "Meph" is that it seems to drive kids to write treatises as to why they think it is the best thing since sliced bread.

I guess writing a "defense" and posting it publicly is a good way to rationalize the horrible addiction that you're so bent on denying.

Allow me to tear through a bit of your post...

crakkbakk said:
I assume this is the right forum because mephedrone is analogous to MDMA's betaketone.
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Actually, Methylone is bk-MDMA. Mephedrone is the bk-paramethylmethampetamine.

To say that a chemical (or anything) is bad because it appears unattractive is a steriotype.
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How, exactly, is that a stereotype?

It is a logical fallacy to think that attractive things/people are good and ugly things/people are bad. Take cocaine and MDMA crystals, for example. Cocaine undoubtedly tastes better and feels better in your nose. MDMA burns and is bitter. Cocaine is also undoubtedly neurotoxic and degenerative because of it's dopamine profile,
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And MDMA doesn't have a "dopamine profile"?

2) Almost all drugs have a crash to it. I crash two hours after smoking marijuana which is neuroprotective. MDMA has a slight crash to it. Seeing as that most people find mephedrone better subjectivley than MDMA (comparing the intensity of the high), this would be expected. Alcohol makes most people feel awful in the morning, yet they continue to drink it.
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Really? But how does this defend mephedrone in any way?

3) It is extreamly hypocritical to say that because mephedrone (4M-MC) resembles MC which is neurotoxic, mephedrone must be neurotoxic.
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Not sure what "MC" you're referring to. But that is not the main argument. The main argument actually seems to be that "meph" is metabolized into ephedrine analogues that cause severe vasoconstriction and may be cardiotoxic. It is probably neurotoxic, too, and it definitely causes kids to make fools out of themselves online.

Any experiences mephedrone user knows that methcathinone and methamphetamine feel nothing like mephedrone. They are very different. Mephedrone feels much more like MDMA, but more intense. Obviously, different people feel different things. There is a pretty general consensus that mephedrone is much more like MDMA than meth/cath. I have a suspicion that everyone who says mephedrone is a pure stimulant was actually duped into taking a different chemical.
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But didn't you argue above that the way a drug feels doesn't say anything about its toxicity?

I fully believe that mephedrone works by the same mechanism as MDMA. There us some concern that because of this and the 5HTxx issues that it is bad for your heart. There is probally some truth to this, as I have felt this before as well. Keep in mind the "too fast of a heartbeat" is always in excess of 500mg after my 3rd inteanasal redose of the night. So I keep this lesson in mind, "don't redose if heart is top fast, wait to slow down."

Because I believe that mephedrone operates like MDMA, I figure if I take supplements it will help or elemimate any negative dopamine oxidase. I take ascorbic acid, alpha lipoic acid and 5HTP before and after.
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Quite frankly, what you "believe" has absolutely nothing to do with the science behind toxicity.

Usually, I feel completely fine the morning after using mephedrone, without supplementa The worst I felt was when I used mephedrone almost around the clock for 3 days straight. I used supplements before the binge but not during or after. For about 24 hours after I felt out of it, like any other drug hangover.

In conclusion, I am here to argue for mephedrone, something we don't see that often. The smell and the bad feeling in your nose does mean massive brain damage is being caused. The hang over, same answer. Mephedrone is not neurotoxic on the basis that it resembles methcathinone. If it is neurotoxic, it is because of a different reason. Mephedrone most likely operates like MDMA, and at best has the same risks as MDMA and at worst just has the same risks to a greater degree. Harm reduction anti oxidants should be taken before during and after mephedrone use. The less you redose the better off you are. The less often you get high on mephedrone the better. These rules are both for MDMA and mephedrone.

Go mephedrone, go.
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Lol.

Seriously though? I feel bad for you, the same way I feel bad for the girl who posted in TR to tell us how much she loved "meph".
 
One thing I would put money on is mephedrone being worse for you than MDMA...

Edit: not trying to start a war, just my opinion and wondered what others thought
 
Tomer said:
OP, you can dillude yourself all you want into thinking Mephedrone is "fine" for you but there are serious concerns around it. the NUMBER 1 concern is it's so fucking new; there is no research, no testing, nothing, nada. That's a very scary concept to me.

I have taken the drug several times and it has been very enjoyable. And, no, I don't attribute neurotoxicity to a crash. I attribute some of it to how I feel afterwards. The most obvious being, my heart. As someone else mentioned, it just felt different. It felt strained, and had a sort of throbbing sense to it. Keep in mind, I would bomb the stuff and probably never go over 200 mg's in a sitting. I think that's a major red flag and I will not be touching the stuff again. I hope you tread carefully.

Tomer
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Seriously, "crackbakk" you are pretty much kidding yourself. Most amphetamines and amphetamine like substances develop some form of nuerotoxicity. You can re read your argument all day and tell yourself your right, but I can almost guarantee that if its an upper, there is going to be some risk of nuerotoxicity. Look at all the meth babies, born with smaller bodies and smaller heads, not to mention serious attention and learning problems. I am sure that those moms "didnt know" that it was so bad.

My point is that new, unreasearched uppers/ research chems, can be VERY BAD for you! No one knew what crack or meth would do to the human brain when they first appeared on the scene, and now a lot of people, not to mention kids are effected very badly by it. I know tweekers and that shit seems to take away personality and human decency.

Tread VERY carefully.
 
what does everyone make of tthe reports of people gettin purple/blue spots on their skin?
 
I see, in most cases this only happens when people lose self control and do huge ammounts of meph in a single sitting/binge (1g+).
 
Neurotoxicity of even well studied substances like MDMA or methamphetamine is still disputable issue if it's compared to human brain, due to most (if not all) data were gathered from experiments on animals. Human brain and human body may and possibly is more resisted to xenobiotics due to large quantity of adaptive mechanisms, like G-protein regulation, phenomena of neuronal desensitization or neurogenesis. So before I would even think about neurotoxicity of such new compound as mephedrone, there must be big fat article about structural and functional changes in human brain caused by ingesting xx mg. of at least methamphetamine with full description of symptoms, pathogenesis and mechanisms.
 
Any experiences mephedrone user knows that methcathinone and methamphetamine feel nothing like mephedrone. They are very different. Mephedrone feels much more like MDMA, but more intense. Obviously, different people feel different things. There is a pretty general consensus that mephedrone is much more like MDMA than meth/cath. I have a suspicion that everyone who says mephedrone is a pure stimulant was actually duped into taking a different chemical.
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Do you mean by that mephedrone is a more intense empathogen than MDMA? This is ridiculous. It may add to its effects by MAOi action. I've heard a lot of bullshit on the streets like "it's like cocaine" etc. So what exactly do those "meph-junkies" or, say, enthusiasts think? If you are one, maybe you tell me. Cocaine's action on DAT is completely different to amphetamines'. I also can't even compare MDMA to mephedrone. So far I can have infinite access to both not paying ridiculous prices for mephedrone and despite that I don't plan to use it anymore. What is synthesized in my lab isn't contracted so I could give it a shot and try >99% pure mephedrone HCl (I don't think it's reasonable to trust people selling mephedrone even if it's legal when it comes to content of what they sell). It's very short in action (well, in that it resembles cocaine =D), the comedown suggests some serious NA action, and the high seems to suggest that it's got stronger 5-HT action than DA action and that is what lures people to thoughts it's somehow related to MDMA (even in subjective feelings). Anyway, it's definitely speedy. Well, it would be no surprise if mephedrone had stronger 5-HT action than DA's. 4-methylamphetamine does. But if one would follow this path and consider other resemblance to 4-methylamphetamine possible, then flephedrone, 3-FMC and 3-methylmethcathinone are then certainly more active than mephedrone at same doses.

Anyway, I've seen one such internet shop (which disappeared suddenly) offering 3,4-dimethylmethcathinone as "NEWNESS" and it's nothing new to me and 3,4-dimethylmethcathinone is definitely more serotoninergic than flephedrone. Besides I'm more into possible antidepressants in synthetic class of morphine derivatives so working on cathinones is just a waste of time then, besides what interesting in this class might be, it's already come out to light (3,4-methylenedioxy- analogs, maybe MDPV but it's just a stimulant with "amphetamine core" so nothing interesting to me and that's all, methcathinone is just a stimulant in large doses).

Another thing is that intensiveness of effects depends on the dose and people don't know what the proper dosing for mephedrone is. What if doses that cause intense enough effects to be called "a high" are extremely toxic? That would not only be another disadvantage of mephedrone but it would completely erase it from a group of amphetamines that are "useable".
 
Adder, i think he meant that the experience was more intense, which btw is subjective. I also dont think that comparing "flephedrone" and other stuff matters in case of evidence. It would be nice to see studies done about mephedrone....But it's too early, or perhaps will never be cared for. People seem to hate it. Swim is going to try it, and hopes it is nice. People who use drugs a bit will obviously deny it to be like mdma, but i personally won't use there anecdotes because i believe drug use should be done sparingly. I honestly humbly say that there should be no argument...All generalizations about how it is a cathinone, bk-meth.., etc will not properly predict its nature. Only time and experience. Thinking about it...All popular/well-known/studdied drugs are so because people used them for many years. So the reality of smoking crack had to come somehow. None can trash mephedrone, compare it, or try to dejustify its use unless they are anti-drug people.

Hey, and i have studdied alot of pharmacology/organic/inorganic chem before too, but its inellectualization won't prove anything, unless you are a scientist.
 
Znegative said:
I'm not asking for a source, but does anybody know if this stuff is available at stores in NYC in general? or only online?
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I doubt it. Buying it on the net is simple though...but a little expensive. Swim is expecting some in a few days. RC internet stores from canada is the only way to find it from USA.
 
Shambles said:
From what I've read, I believe it's the effect of mephedrone's cardiotoxic metabolites that are more the concern than it's possible neurotoxicity, XTC. From those that know their chemistry the chemical structure apparently cries out "Do not take me cos I'll fuck your heart valves up". I like the stuff but have no intention of using it regularly or in large quantities.
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right to the heart (i mean of mephedrone) ... i agree with you :)
i like it too but ..... i like my life better
 
what about the blue limbs and deaths? thats what people pay attention to when it comes to RCs. the number of deaths and the side effects. in this casr the side effects being severy vasoconstriction
 
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