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RCs Arguement for Mephedrone

crakkbakk

Greenlighter
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
44
I assume this is the right forum because mephedrone is analogous to MDMA's betaketone.

There seems to be a slight stigma around mephedrone. I am here to argue this.

The stigma is that mephedrone is definitley neurotoxic. After reading many many forum posts and experience reports, the most common reasons for this belief are:

1)It smells funny/is corrosive
2)It has a crash/just feels like it
3)t looks similar to other chemicals that are neurotoxic.

To say that a chemical (or anything) is bad because it appears unattractive is a steriotype. It is a logical fallacy to think that attractive things/people are good and ugly things/people are bad. Take cocaine and MDMA crystals, for example. Cocaine undoubtedly tastes better and feels better in your nose. MDMA burns and is bitter. Cocaine is also undoubtedly neurotoxic and degenerative because of it's dopamine profile, even in low sporadic doses, whereas MDMA is most likely not going to cause any long term damage to brain neurons, and in combination with harm reduction supplements, there is no short term damage in rodents. Most life saving medicine tastes like shit and probally would burn in your nose.

2) Almost all drugs have a crash to it. I crash two hours after smoking marijuana which is neuroprotective. MDMA has a slight crash to it. Seeing as that most people find mephedrone better subjectivley than MDMA (comparing the intensity of the high), this would be expected. Alcohol makes most people feel awful in the morning, yet they continue to drink it.

3) It is extreamly hypocritical to say that because mephedrone (4M-MC) resembles MC which is neurotoxic, mephedrone must be neurotoxic. The NIDA's main arguement that MDMA causes long term damage even from a single dose is because it is related to methamphetamine which is proven to cause long term brain damage. As an educated drug user, it is embarassing to say that mephedrone mud be neurotoxic because it is related to methcathinone.

When one changes the chemical structure of a compound by even the slightest bit, dramatic things can happen. If one takes SO2 and inhales it, they will projectile vomit. If they cut off the sulpher, they have oxygen whichbia necessary for life.

Methcathinone is neurotoxic because it damages dopamine systems. Same reason methamphetamine is neurotoxic.

Any experiences mephedrone user knows that methcathinone and methamphetamine feel nothing like mephedrone. They are very different. Mephedrone feels much more like MDMA, but more intense. Obviously, different people feel different things. There is a pretty general consensus that mephedrone is much more like MDMA than meth/cath. I have a suspicion that everyone who says mephedrone is a pure stimulant was actually duped into taking a different chemical.

I fully believe that mephedrone works by the same mechanism as MDMA. There us some concern that because of this and the 5HTxx issues that it is bad for your heart. There is probally some truth to this, as I have felt this before as well. Keep in mind the "too fast of a heartbeat" is always in excess of 500mg after my 3rd inteanasal redose of the night. So I keep this lesson in mind, "don't redose if heart is top fast, wait to slow down."

Because I believe that mephedrone operates like MDMA, I figure if I take supplements it will help or elemimate any negative dopamine oxidase. I take ascorbic acid, alpha lipoic acid and 5HTP before and after.

Usually, I feel completely fine the morning after using mephedrone, without supplementa The worst I felt was when I used mephedrone almost around the clock for 3 days straight. I used supplements before the binge but not during or after. For about 24 hours after I felt out of it, like any other drug hangover.

In conclusion, I am here to argue for mephedrone, something we don't see that often. The smell and the bad feeling in your nose does mean massive brain damage is being caused. The hang over, same answer. Mephedrone is not neurotoxic on the basis that it resembles methcathinone. If it is neurotoxic, it is because of a different reason. Mephedrone most likely operates like MDMA, and at best has the same risks as MDMA and at worst just has the same risks to a greater degree. Harm reduction anti oxidants should be taken before during and after mephedrone use. The less you redose the better off you are. The less often you get high on mephedrone the better. These rules are both for MDMA and mephedrone.

Go mephedrone, go.
 
Probably better suited to other drugs.

I didnt realise there was an argument against it but I will take your word for it.

It sounds horrible.
 
Ive got to agree however there have been problems with it and as far as I can tell, all the problems have come from people snorting huge ammounts of it...... putting huge ammounts of powder up a nose isnt going to be good for anyone....... bombing it produces a much better and longer lasting overall effect so, why bother snorting it ?
 
Ive got to agree however there have been problems with it and as far as I can tell, all the problems have come from people snorting huge ammounts of it...... putting huge ammounts of powder up a nose isnt going to be good for anyone....... bombing it produces a much better and longer lasting overall effect so, why bother snorting it ?

In my experience, if I bomb on even a light amount of food 2 hours earlier I will not feel anything.
 
That's odd, because I've heard nothing but good things about it.
Not like it was cod liver oil or anything, but surprisingly light on the body and mind during and afterwards
 
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I'm afraid that from a pharmacological perspective, you made a lot of assumptions that are simply not true. The first is that mephedrone works exactly like MDMA. The truth is that mephedrone is completely unresearched--your experience that it "feels" somewhat similar to MDMA is just a single anecdote w/ no biophysical data attached to it. However, according to Rothman's data, para-methyl-amphetamine is pretty equal in affinity toward the DAT & the SERT, so you might be right about 4-MMC (there is no data on para-methyl-methamphetamine). The second assumption is that MDMA is innocuous-- MDMA is metabolized into neurotoxic pro-oxidant species and is more neurotoxic than methamphetamine (not mg for mg, but active dose to active dose, say 25mg & 150mg).

As for the neurotoxicity of methcathinone, the greatest danger comes from the compounds used to synthesize it clandestinely. The manganese-based oxidant used to synth it is horribly toxic: manganese is a powerful dopaminergic toxin that can cause Parkinsonian syndromes.

In short, it is impossible to judge the toxicity of a drug based solely on how it feels--even Shuglin made this fallacy, but he is a chemist, not a pharmacologist.
 
I would like to think that this drug is no more toxic or dangerous than MDMA, unfortunately however this may not be the case. Imo death or hospitilisation seems highly unlikely if used responsibly and in moderation. Would I be right in thinking that certain additives in food and cosmetic products are neurotoxic? If so how would mephedrone toxicity differ?
 
From what I've read, I believe it's the effect of mephedrone's cardiotoxic metabolites that are more the concern than it's possible neurotoxicity, XTC. From those that know their chemistry the chemical structure apparently cries out "Do not take me cos I'll fuck your heart valves up". I like the stuff but have no intention of using it regularly or in large quantities.
 
As you may have guessed im not so knowledgeable when it comes to the chemistry side of things, although im definately going to start learning sometime :).
By "Fuck your heart valves up" is this short term or long term damage as although I have read many reports on bpm being sky high nobody appears to have died or had any life threatening conditions after ingesting reasonable amounts. Have only tried it once and loved it although nowhere near as much as MDMA. Considering not getting anymore as I was born with a hole in my heart, have a heart murmur and was always adviced by my doctor to 'Just say no' to drugs lol. Are the risks exaggerated or is there serious evidence to show that hole in heart + drugs = death :D
 
I had always read that MDMA was neurotoxic. I believe I read that here, in a thread actually

Your argument seems to be based on the feeling of the drug, not its pharmacology
 
Xtc: I'm relying on what I've gathered from those that know their stuff cos I can assure you I'm not so knowledgable on the chemistry side of things either =D

The possible heart valve issue would appear to be a longterm effect so damage done now may not be immediately apparent. There's some talk of it here and dotted about various other places. As I said, this is not proven yet but it looks like legitimate concern and some of the subjective experience involving some pretty scary side effects from regular/heavy users sound pretty ominous too.

It's probably fine to use with some considerable degree of caution and moderation, but also probably wise not to go mad with the stuff at least until more is known about it :)

As for the heart murmor, personally I would be extremely cautious using any stimulants in that circumstance (ideally not to use them at all) but mephedrone seems to be especially hard on the heart and blood pressure so probably worth being even more careful with. I'm certainly no medical man so would be worth doing a bit of research before planning any meph binges, perhaps :D
 
Thanks for the reply, for the record I dont intend to binge on meph or use regularly, would only take 350mg out with me for a night to avoid fiending for more and probably use about once every 1-2 months. Wouldnt touch the stuff if I could still get MDMA crystal. Although in its defence its cheap, pure, on weight, easily available and not illegal. I wonder why mephedrone or methylone doesn't seem to be replacing piperazine shite here in the UK. 'The Land of Sheep & Drizzle' has got to be wales yeh? :D
 
Hehe! Yup, Wales it is =D

I wouldn't be too sure about meph being so pure these days either as there has been a lot of variation in batches since it's newfound popularity. I think it is starting to gain a foothold in the "ecstasy" (:\) market at the moment. It's certainly become a hell of a lot more popular since all the media hoohah about it anyway :|

Maybe have a wander over to EADD sometime cos there's always plenty of M1/meph talk over there, although the honeymoon period seems to have well and truly worn off for many.
 
heart problems

in response to concerns over heart problems taking meph, the same an be said for any stimulent taken in excess....that includes caffine!
 
Methamphetamine is neurotoxic because of its serotonin release. Same exact reason MDMA is neurotoxic.
 
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in response to concerns over heart problems taking meph, the same an be said for any stimulent taken in excess....that includes caffine!

The heart concerns with meph are a bit more serious than those from your average cup of coffee ;)

Subjectively the heart stuff just feels completely different to any other stim I've ever used. And not different in a good way. The evidence for it being pretty seriously toxic stuff - more so than other stims - is getting kinda hard to ignore. One to be very careful with if used at all, methinks...
 
Hehe! Yup, Wales it is =D

It applies magnificently to Scotland was well, as somebody with extremely strong ties to both countries, I feel the pain of everyone confined to a sopping wet sheep filled existence :\

I love mephedrone, and am generally a follower of the "everything in moderation" philsophy, so long as you dont go nuts you'll be all right on mostly anything...or at least that's what I tell myself =D
 
meph is awesome, im on a little break at the moment though. im drinking at the moment and have a big urge to do some... but i have none, thank fuck. the storys of peoples limbs turning purple scared me a little, plus i had an evil come down last week, never felt that unmotivated and emotional in ages
 
I am in two minds still whether to buy mephedrone or not. I have the urges to go buy some but the lasting and side effects are still making me nervous about making the final decision, having never really done anything like this before.

If I choose to buy it though, I want to make sure that I am buying from somewhere that I can trust and know is safe. [Edit- Please read the rules... Don't post sources. -BollWeevil]

Thanks.
 
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