Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[PaulyPointz]

Anybody know anything about possible liver effects from doing that? I read about Bupe causing liver necrosis, which basically means, I think, that your liver dies off in little bits each time you do it? I'm no doctor....any thoughts?

 

[cire113]

could be flu or cold wait 2 days and you will know for sure

 

[fm1983]

If you are on 8mg a day, I doubt you are experiences w/d that soon. The half-life on the drug is +-36hrs. I would agree with the above poster and wait it out, and see if you are actually sick or not.

As for getting high; I strongly doubt you will feel much of your dose. I 2mg bupe when I have no OC (for one day, not daily etc) and 24hrs after my bupe, a 60mg OC dose feels extremely diminished. I have to go at least 26hrs or so before I can feel my whole OC dose. Let me remind you, my OC is diminished after a single bupe dose. Someone as yourself who is on a daily regime with it built up, I think you will have a much harder time getting high.

Someone who is on bupe regularly may be able to give you a better idea, but it's just my .02 on the case.

 

[tom80]

I appreciate the advice guys, but I took some oxy anyway. Its New Years! (<---my lame attempt at justifying it). I actually got a good high, granted I had to take roughly twice the amount of oxy for the same effects.

Now here's one more question for ya if you don't mind:

~~~

Do I have to wait another 24 hrs and be in mild withdrawal before I can take Suboxone again?

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

i think so..wait for someone else to chime in though

 

[Jabberwocky]

Do I have to wait another 24 hrs and be in mild withdrawal before I can take Suboxone again?

yes, wait until you are in wd's before dosing the bupe again.

these questions belong in the bupe megathread, youd have found the answer if you'd read through any of the previous threads.

 

[fm1983]

I appreciate the advice guys, but I took some oxy anyway. Its New Years! (<---my lame attempt at justifying it). I actually got a good high, granted I had to take roughly twice the amount of oxy for the same effects.

Now here's one more question for ya if you don't mind:

~~~

Do I have to wait another 24 hrs and be in mild withdrawal before I can take Suboxone again?

Yesterday I took 105mg of OC throughout the day, with my last dose of 45mg insulfated at 6:30pm. I woke up this morning at 8am and took 2mg suboxone (insulfated) no pw/d.

I know when I can dose on bupe without getting pw/d. Everyone is different though. It is ideal that you are in some form of w/d when you start your suboxone dose.

COWS Scale:
http://www.naabt.org/documents/cows_induction_flow_sheet.pdf

 

[fistful_of_needles]

I searched but didn't find anything on this subject.
I'm on 8 mg suboxone, and it's causing some constipation, obviously. What do you guys use daily to help with this? Fiber pills? lactulose? senna? doccusate sodium?

This is a normal issue with all opiates yet I found out that if you increase the fibers in your diet and keep yourself quite active throughout the day as in doing sports for instance and drink a lot of water you will soon find out that this isn't such a big issue after all

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Usually, any kid of etched-in-stone taper schedule seems to invite trouble. Ideally, you would want to let your own reactions be your guide. Uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms likely indicate you are going to fast. However it goes, you must take care of number one. In my mind, anything that endangers your sobriety is a wrong move.

I might add that there is no equation that sets any kind of rule, ie: use of x amount of drug y, means you should be on z amount of suboxone. It takes what it takes. The only "right" dose for you is the lowest amount that prevents withdrawals and cravings. Trying to taper too early, too fast, and/or too soon has led to many a relapse. Some folks might think "what the fuck? If I have trouble, I'll just go back on suboxone". That kind of thinking fails to take into account that any relapse could be our last!

You're correct here. This is how I would have said it but in different words.

There's really no problem with mapping out a WD schedule however it's something you should be able to edit as needed. I recently posted a taper schedule for myself, and I'm finding that it's on spot as of right now. I have completed the first step, and have tapered down 10mcg. It wasn't really difficult at all. As I keep going down each step, I might need more time at some steps, or I might need to decrease how much I'm going down once I get below 100mcg/shot.

Everyone has their own pace at which they can taper down comfortably. The great idea behind tapering with buprenorphine is that it's much more comfortable to taper with it than most other opiates. Don't make yourself come down too early if you're not ready, and if the taper process is a little uncomfortable, that's OK it probably will be for most people. Just don't let it get too bad - you can always take more if you need to.

You need to realize that 1ml does not equal 100cc's like you are implying. 1ml=1cc. You would take 60-100 units not cc's per day.

That is correct.

1/100 of 1mL = 1 unit
1/100 of 1cc = 1 unit

1mL = 1cc

 

[KnowBudz]

All true. Having a planned taper schedule is fine...just be prepared to adjust it as needed. Being unable to meet a pre-conceived milestone is no sign of failure or weakness, rather it should be viewed as a sign that your body isn't ready. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence of people comfortably tapering that no one should have to experience undue suffering.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I searched but didn't find anything on this subject.
I'm on 8 mg suboxone, and it's causing some constipation, obviously. What do you guys use daily to help with this? Fiber pills? lactulose? senna? doccusate sodium?

Take less Suboxone! You're probably on too high of a dose.

If you really need 8mg a day, then take in a good deal of fiber (found in food, not supplements) and drink plenty of water.

If you are going on suboxone, you usually go on it for a reason. YOU ARE AN ADDICTT!!!

There's plenty of reasons why people go on Suboxone, and not everyone is an addict because they are on Suboxone. If you're on Suboxone, you really shouldn't be taking other opiates without being able to wait fully until you feel WD effects, or until the drug has worn off for sure. If that isn't something you feel comfortable doing, stay on short acting opiates, or Suboxone. Not both.

...and yes you can snort suboxone, i was worried at first reading differnt blogs getting strong opinions on both ends and then i just thought about it for a second..what is actually happening when u sniff a sublingual pill.. it attaches on and dissolves..(i know, i should be a doctor ha) of course if u get a huge drip your just swallowing it and pretty much wasting it because its not absorbed well by just swallowing..

I don't think you should be a doctor. No offense. Insuffulated BA is 50%, which isn't too terribly much more than sublingual BA. Plus, if you don't snort it correctly, you'll end up orally consuming more of the drug. Plus, Suboxone is a very cut pill. 30 N8's weigh about 11.4 grams. This makes each pill roughly 380mg. Only 8mg of it is buprenorphine. Suboxone is 2.1% buprenorphine.

It's not good to snort pills that have such a low percentage of active ingredient. It's one thing to snort oxy (despite a higher oral BA) - it's roughly 1/3 active ingredient. I don't know about roxicodone, but I'm sure it's much higher than 2.1% as well.

You can definitely snort Suboxone, I just don't see the point of having such a small BA increase even if you do it right, considering the duration is shorter.

There was times when i did feel better from sniffin it, but i usually only sniffed a quarter at most n took the rest sublingually. i just feel that by sniffing it you kinda are defeating the purpose transferring your old addictions onto another.

I disagree. Using Suboxone sublingually is using the drug just as much as any other ROA. Behind that reasoning it's OK to take OC orally but not sniffing it...which is also the incorrect way to look at it.

It doesn't matter what ROA you use, it's still using drugs. There's no avoiding using a drug about an ROA, unless the ROA is useless for that drug (i.e. mushrooms, or other similar psychedelics can only be taken orally, the vast majority of steroids have to be injected, etc.).

Would someoone please mind telling me whether it's possible to w/d from an 8mg dose taken every ~4 days?

Yes, it's possible. 8mg is a large dose.

Also why do people say bupe can't be swallowed? I used to swallow them whole because they taste so bad and I would still get high, just not as strong or nearly as long as if taken sublingually or insufflated.

It can be swallowed, but you will only get 10% of the active ingredient in your system. You would have to orally ingest 3 pills to get the same effect as sublingually using 1.

...that's assuming you actually "need" to sublingually use a whole 8mg suboxone tablet...which you probably don't.

Sorry to ask another question in this thread, but bupe is a very odd drug...

I'm been on 8mg a day for the past month, and roughly 20 hrs after my last dose I feel like I'm in mild withdrawals (runny nose, cold sweats, goosebumps, minor aches, anxiety) and this has never happened till now, even past 24hrs of missing my dose. And I'm sure this is no flu or cold.

So my questions are:

1) Is this some sort of paradoxical effect, or is this common? Is it because of tolerance after a month of 8mg/day?

2) Since I'm in mild Bupe withdrawals (I think), would I be able to get a decent high from oxy later on tonight?

No, it's not a paradoxical reaction. Having mild withdrawal symptoms roughly a day after last dosing is common.

It is likely due to having taken Suboxone for a whole month at 8mg per day.

And yes, you should be able to get a decent high from oxycodone. However, how "decent" it is might depend on a few things. Some people would say it'd be very decent, others hardly decent.

All luer locks are the same size, 33mm is the size of the disk. I was just wondering since they are cheaper and do the same thing. Larger disk size simply means more can be run throuh the filter at a time, each size has a different rating for what it is good up to. From everyone who talks about microns they seem to have a bias towards the more expensive whatman brand filters and I'm wondering how the puradisk are an if anyone has used them.

From what I read in the IV Product Review thread, I wouldn't get the cheaper ones that are 33mm - I would get the Whatman 25mm ones merely because I know they work for me. I filtered 3 suboxone 8mg tablets with one Whatman 25mm 0.2 micron filter, and it is a very efficient, easy process.

The Whatman filters have 3 layers of filtering, which is why a larger filter (without pre-filters) means it has more space because parts of it will get clogged.

I don't know the brand you're talking about, but if they have the same design as the Whatman filters, you can definitely try them. I am also sure that Whatman makes a 33mm one as well - I just don't normally see them on the websites I order from (you might have to track it down online).

Also what is the difference between sterile and bacterostatic water. I know what bacteriostatic water is specd to and it is guaranteed not to have any bacteria, but isn't sterile water bacteria free too if it is indeed sterile? I only ask because I have hundreds of the 15ml sterile water tubes from the exchange and I will use them unless there is something wrong with that.

The difference between sterile and bacteriostatic water is sterile water is good for drinking if you're thirsty, bacteriostatic water is good for making IV solutions with. You can use sterile water for an IV solution sure, but it is NOT good for letting it sit around for a week or two. Bacteriostatic water is packaged with sodium chloride or benzyl alcohol (or something else) to prevent bacteria from growing. Sterile water has nothing but sterile water - and it is likely to grow bacteria unless you use it within a day or two (not a week or two).

The sterile water tubes you get at the exchange *can* be used, but you don't have a guarantee they are bacteriostatic. I mean, if you know what's in it somehow, and know that there's benzyl alcohol or w/e in it, then be my guest.

I wouldn't use the sterile water tubes I have from the exchange because they expired years ago, and are likely just to be "sterile water" without benzyl alcohol, or sodium chloride, or anything else in it. If they do have sodium chloride or benzyl alcohol, and aren't expired, I guess you really could use them, but I can't guarantee you that's the case.

I still have yet to place my order since I figure it wouldn't have shipped today anyway. Right now I'm just getting vials and microns. With the vials, are they vacuum sealed from the beginning? I am trying to get a total picture of how they work, once filled when you pull solution from them wouldn't air try to enter into the vial as you suck liquid out since it would cause a vacuum if they are otherwise sealed? i would assume you need tp be careful as you could introduce air to the vial if you accidentally pushed some in with the syringe. If there is no vacuum that would imply external air is entering the vial to stabilize pressure. I'm sure these things have been thought out I would just like to know how they work.

The porous material on the top of a vial will prevent anything from entering the vial you don't put in there yourself. If you wipe off the stopper with an alcohol pad, then open a new needle, push out the 2 units of air, and put the needle through the stopper, and draw back what you need, you can ensure that the liquid in the vial is still good to use. As soon as you pull the needle out, the stopper closes back up. There isn't any time for any external air to get into the vial.

If you don't hold the plunger down on the 20cc syringes I have when you pull back water, the plunger will be pulled back to the beginning (and the water will return to the vial). This is how I know that no external air is getting into the vial at all, even with an 18G needle (which is HUGE).

edit: I didn't realize you IVed that much per day and still got euphoria with every shot. .6-.9 IV is equivalent to 2-3mg sublingual. If that dosing works with smaller more frequent amounts I'm definitely going to try it since I plan to get back on a strict no-cheating suboxone only regimen.

Yeah I sure do. It's been a while since I've used any opiates, so my tolerance is essentially back to 0. But yes, I think 600 - 900 mcg/day IV is roughly 2mg sublingually (3 at the most). It's certainly more euphoric than using 2mg once sublingually per day.

Good luck on getting back on Suboxone! I alternated between Suboxone and heroin for a while before I finally stopped using it, but I've been clean for 14 months and 12 days now.

Let me know if this answered all your questions or not man.

Anybody know anything about possible liver effects from doing that? I read about Bupe causing liver necrosis, which basically means, I think, that your liver dies off in little bits each time you do it? I'm no doctor....any thoughts?

I doubt buprenorphine by itself in responsible amounts will cause necrosis of the liver. If it did, there would be a lot of dead junkies (since none of them would be able to get liver transplants, except for the black market and 5 figures of $'s), and I hardly see how R&B would still be allowed to produce Suboxone and Subutex.

I appreciate the advice guys, but I took some oxy anyway. Its New Years! (<---my lame attempt at justifying it). I actually got a good high, granted I had to take roughly twice the amount of oxy for the same effects.

Now here's one more question for ya if you don't mind:

~~~

Do I have to wait another 24 hrs and be in mild withdrawal before I can take Suboxone again?

You should, yes. Not doing so can risk precipitated WD's.

It's good you still got the desired effects, however having to use 2x as much for the same effects is a sign that it's best to stick to either buprenorphine or oxycodone and not try combining them.

I'm not sure if a whole 24 hours would be necessary to get to where you need to be to take Suboxone again. Definitely at least 12-18 hours.

 

[thugpassion]

people who bang subutex....

Do you bother to scape off the dride shit in the spoon to maybe save for later to put under your tounge. I know there must not be barley any of the drug left, but still that shit is expiensive.....

 

[BumpyJohnson]

Do you bother to scape off the dride shit in the spoon to maybe save for later to put under your tounge. I know there must not be barley any of the drug left, but still that shit is expiensive.....

I bang my subutex quite often starting recently.. but my veins are desperately asking for a break (which they certainly deserve.. ).. but I HAVE to give breaks in between.. otherwise i'd look like someone took a purple pain brush to my arms..
but for the above poster:
I've also been known to save left overs as you do as well.. and sometimes find that the second (rinse- or so its called) can deliver better results than the first.. but its these second shots that destroy my arms.. even filtered twice.. some say to use cold water for a clearer solution.. some say warm to get more of the "good stuff".. i personally know that it doesn't matter either which way.. just know that prolonged IV use of Buprenorphine- Subutex- or the endo Generic buprenorphine is just absolutely HORRIBLE for your veins and circulatory system as a whole.. and I actually think it has contributed to some respiratory issues that I am now having.. and for these reasons.. I would advise all to reconsider.. just as I am now myself..

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Do you bother to scape off the dride shit in the spoon to maybe save for later to put under your tounge. I know there must not be barley any of the drug left, but still that shit is expiensive.....

Buprenorphine is water soluble. What's left in the bottom of the spoon is likely magnesium stearate, and any other inactive ingredient.

BTW I micron filter, so there's no "dried shit in the spoon" on this end. :D

I bang my subutex quite often starting recently.. but my veins are desperately asking for a break (which they certainly deserve.. ).. but I HAVE to give breaks in between.. otherwise i'd look like someone took a purple pain brush to my arms..
but for the above poster:
I've also been known to save left overs as you do as well.. and sometimes find that the second (rinse- or so its called) can deliver better results than the first.. but its these second shots that destroy my arms.. even filtered twice.. some say to use cold water for a clearer solution.. some say warm to get more of the "good stuff".. i personally know that it doesn't matter either which way.. just know that prolonged IV use of Buprenorphine- Subutex- or the endo Generic buprenorphine is just absolutely HORRIBLE for your veins and circulatory system as a whole.. and I actually think it has contributed to some respiratory issues that I am now having.. and for these reasons.. I would advise all to reconsider.. just as I am now myself..

How much are you shooting each day?

Maybe you should invest in micron filters.

 

[KnowBudz]

I've been on lactulose for years and found it to take care of the constipation caused by opiates. Suboxone cause me less trouble than did methadone. Also, you cannot really call 8mg a "high dose". Doses vary among individuals and do not correlate with the amounts abused prior to treatment. Typical maintenance doses range from 4-32mg/day, but vary among individuals. The "best" maintenance dose is the lowest daily amount that prevents withdrawals and cravings.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I've been on lactulose for years and found it to take care of the constipation caused by opiates. Suboxone cause me less trouble than did methadone. Also, you cannot really call 8mg a "high dose". Doses vary among individuals and do not correlate with the amounts abused prior to treatment. Typical maintenance doses range from 4-32mg/day, but vary among individuals. The "best" maintenance dose is the lowest daily amount that prevents withdrawals and cravings.

While that is fair, it is a high dose for people with low opiate tolerances.

 

[DeLee]

Hm....that doesn't happen with my solution. Sorry to hear that. I have no idea what it is.


Can you list me the active & inactive ingredients list? Can you find that information?

I don't know how other manufacturers make Suboxone but I know R&B's formulation doesn't leave anything floating on the top other than liquid.

I am wondering what kind of inactive ingredient would float on water like that...I'm rather interested if you can find the info.

Also, are micron filters available in Sweden? If so I would just use those, but I'd be interested to know what exactly it is floating atop.

We do not have micron filters available in Sweden, sure I could order through the internet but then i had to go through american sites and I think it would be quite expensive. I have never seen anyone use a micron filter here..

Alright these are the other ingredients in Suboxone by (Schering-Plough) here in Sweden, will try to translate as best as i can:

Lactose monohydrate
mannitol
maize starch
povidone K30
citric acid
natriumcitrat (The english translation for this one i think are "sodium citrate")
Magnesium Stearate
acesulfamkalium (I think the correct translation is "Acesulfame Potassium")

and lemon and lime for taste.

 

[oneswtwld]

I began doing heroin four years ago, and began shooting it two years ago.
I was doing as much as two bundles a day at times.
I went through $60,000 in a VERY short time.
I decided to quit when I wanted to get married and start a fmily.

Currently, I have been taking 2mgs os suboxone, two or three times a day for about five months.


I have been f'd around with our wonderful f-adderall stimulus program (particularly COBRA health insurance)
I was lucky enough to find a job a year ago this february, but lost it at the end of the school year.
The NOT FOR PROFIT agency, for which I worked, let me go for NO REASON WHATSOEVER.
Under the federal rules, I was given COBRA coverage for a 1/6th subsidized cost.
This included a no-co-pay behavior health aspect. (Pretty nice)

The agency I worked for messed with me because, :We do not feel we can get our money back," for my health insurance....

Now, I have no insurance, job, or anytihgn but my girl (Thank god), my dogs, and 40mgs of suboxone.


Thanx again to this site and Captain Heroin, I am going to see if I can taper down and get off of opiates for GOOD.

Actually, I began substitute teaching the week before the christmas break.

I hope that this tapering does not mess with my ability to function at work.


If anyone has any suggestions regarding tapering, coping (not trying to get dope), or any free health care information, it would be greatly appreciated.


ps:

this site has probably saved me from going down many much DARKER paths than what lead me to where I am today.

A whole lot of information about as many experiences and things as possible is much better (imho) than censorship and facism (especially anything out of Obama's ass) ( or the US Govt in general)

one love



pps

I am going to try to begin with 2mgs a day, then see if , after two days, I can switch to 1mg 2x's a day.



I have no idea how this will go..

EXERCISE IS GOING TO BE A BIG PART OF MY RECOVERY AND LIFE FROM HERE ON OUT.

peace



I will post a better schedule soon

 

[Captain.Heroin]

We do not have micron filters available in Sweden, sure I could order through the internet but then i had to go through american sites and I think it would be quite expensive. I have never seen anyone use a micron filter here..

Alright these are the other ingredients in Suboxone by (Schering-Plough) here in Sweden, will try to translate as best as i can:

Lactose monohydrate
mannitol
maize starch
povidone K30
citric acid
natriumcitrat (The english translation for this one i think are "sodium citrate")
Magnesium Stearate
acesulfamkalium (I think the correct translation is "Acesulfame Potassium")

and lemon and lime for taste.

One micron filter can prepare 2 weeks' worth of IV Suboxone solution (for 2 people). Even if each micron filter is $5, that's not that bad.

I'm sorry that people in Europe haven't seen them, but apparently a lot of people haven't had access to them.

EXERCISE IS GOING TO BE A BIG PART OF MY RECOVERY AND LIFE FROM HERE ON OUT.

peace

Cool man. I exercised a lot when I was on heroin, but also after I quit as well. Exercise can be really helpful for WD symptoms. Let me know how it goes for you man, best of luck.

The advice I can give you is try to space out your doses as long as you can. Now adays, 2mg sublingually can stretch me a whole day if I really need it to (not the main way I use suboxone..but when I "have" to...).

BTW I have also known people who blew through multiple $10,000's on heroin within years. It's good to know when to call it quits.

 

[Falcon0r]

Here's a question - does taking a daily dose (2mg - 8mg) of Bupe raise your tolerance to other opiates? Specifically, Oxycodone and Morphine? I was on it for two months before a relapse and ended up overdosing because my tolerance was so much lower than I thought it would have been.