Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[KnowBudz]

ok, quick question for those who are using suboxone to get off opiates. I was just recently placed on 8mg 2x daily, and while it is doing wonders for me, I really would like to know how fast or slow I should taper down. I would just quit opiates and deal with wd's, but I am still recovering from surgery on my hip from an auto accident and can't deal with the wd right now.

I would prefer to taper down as quickly as possible without too many bad side effects, so does anyone have a good dosing schedule recommendation for me? Any help is appreciated.

o

If you are serious about getting clean, don't worry about tapering. I assume you are on maintenance, so your focus should be making the changes in your life that allow you to remain drug-free. If and when the time is right to taper off, discuss it with your treatment team and give it a shot.

Some of us have been able to taper to a lower dose, others get off completely, and still others stay on it. All of these options are fine as long as you remain stable. I tried every variety of cheating I could think of, and found that "getting away with it" is temporary at best. I you are lucky enough to live past your own hard-headedness, you may be able to get off the merry-go-round!

 

[maggiegbl]

yeah, thanks.

I know it wont help with the withdrawal itself but I was wondering if it would help with the deppression I seem to get when I try to withdraw?

(back on small amount of sub now and no idea what to do)..

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What I would suggest is to taper down on buprenorphine very gradually while implementing drugs like hydroxyzine, since you find benzodiazepines addictive.

-> Suboxone/Subutex Mega Thread

 

[BIGsherm7272]

thanks guys, I guess I will just slowly reduce it, maybe 1mg every month or something, but I might stay on this dose for a while. Also wondering if my dose of 8mg 2x daily sounds like too much for a 80-120mg a day of oxy habit for around a year....thanks.

And yes, I'm trying to stay clean and eventually get off it and have no desire to use as of right now. Thanks. But I do wish my parents didn't throw away me xanax script

 

[Captain.Heroin]

tapering & you

thanks guys, I guess I will just slowly reduce it, maybe 1mg every month or something, but I might stay on this dose for a while. Also wondering if my dose of 8mg 2x daily sounds like too much for a 80-120mg a day of oxy habit for around a year....thanks.

And yes, I'm trying to stay clean and eventually get off it and have no desire to use as of right now. Thanks. But I do wish my parents didn't throw away me xanax script

There's no way to have thrown away Xanax. That's just a waste of perfectly good medication.

However, if benzos are addictive for you, it's best not to become dependent on them. Trust me, I'd rather be a life long heroin addict than become dependent on benzos for any amount of time.

If you can stand benzos w/o being addicted, then they can be really helpful with a buprenorphine taper.

16mg/day is a lot for 80-120mg oxy a day, but it's OK - 16mg of bupe is needed for some people.

Tapering down from a high dose is easy, it's when you get to <4mg/day does it get tricky.

I would taper like this.

16mg/day 1
14mg/day 2
12mg/day 3
10mg/day 4
8mg/day 5, 6, 7
6mg/day 8-14
4mg/day 15-21
2mg/day 22-28
1.5mg/day (however long you need)
1mg/day "
0.5mg/day "
and you can either jump off from there or start decreasing it by mcg's not mg's. I hope that helped.

You should be able to get from 16mg to 8mg fairly easy, 8mg to 4mg with a little effort, and 4mg to 2mg or lower will be the hard part. Hope that made sense.

 

[Oxymorphone]

All right I'm about to order filters and vials finally. So is there a real quality difference between $4 33mm puradisk and the $5 25mm whatmans? I guess I'll also get the pre-sealed 10ml vials. I looked for smaller ones and couldn't find anything sealed like I need, I guess 10ml is small enough and I'll try to make a less concentrated solution. Maybe if I did 20cc = .1mg that would be enough where I would be using a good amount of solution so a vial is finished quicker and I would fill multiple 10ml vials at a time. I want to be at .3mg-.5mg IV per day so 60cc-100cc is perfect for that, I would be using 1ml syringes instead of the 1/2s which I was starting to like but that's not a big deal and I think it is better for a number of reasons to have the solution less concentrated and at that level one 10ml vial would still last 1-2 weeks.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

All right I'm about to order filters and vials finally. So is there a real quality difference between $4 33mm puradisk and the $5 25mm whatmans? I guess I'll also get the pre-sealed 10ml vials. I looked for smaller ones and couldn't find anything sealed like I need, I guess 10ml is small enough and I'll try to make a less concentrated solution. Maybe if I did 20cc = .1mg that would be enough where I would be using a good amount of solution so a vial is finished quicker and I would fill multiple 10ml vials at a time. I want to be at .3mg-.5mg IV per day so 60cc-100cc is perfect for that, I would be using 1ml syringes instead of the 1/2s which I was starting to like but that's not a big deal and I think it is better for a number of reasons to have the solution less concentrated and at that level one 10ml vial would still last 1-2 weeks.

I think the 33mm ones might be too big for the standard luer lock??? I have no idea. I have only gotten the 25mm Whatmans, so that's all I can speak for - sorry.

10mL is a small enough size for a vial. I currently use about half of a 30mL vial, and it works just fine and is small enough for me. Before I was using a big old media bottle which was just ridiculous IMO - better for less potent, less concentrated solutions.

I think you probably want to dilute it so that it's slightly on the concentrated end - it's really your choice in the end, but when I'm injecting I prefer a smaller amount of solution to inject instead of a larger amount of a solution. For example...I prefer 10 units of liquid (I prefer to use 10 units of water to dissolve a dose of ketamine, buprenorphine, or any other drug really unless it's a more heavily cut pill like Dormicum).

I also don't know how easy you'll find it to stick to 0.3mg-0.5mg IV per day. I get by on about 4 to 6 shots of 150mcg each day, which yields 0.6mg - 0.9mg per day for me. It took me a while until I got here comfortably and got a rush + high each time. Of course everyone's experience is different, and buprenorphine is a very potent drug.

I just think if you're using your own micron filters, you should be able to stick to the 1/2 CC syringes, especially if you like them more like I do. I actually ordered 3/10 CC syringes recently because I notice I never use most of a 1/2 CC syringe anyways haha.

As for how long the solution will last, I have noticed that even using a media bottle (which exposes the entire solution a lot more so than a vial does) for 12 days in a row didn't present any problems to me. I'm sure a vial would be even more safe. So if you do end up using the same vial for 2 weeks in a row, but have only used sterile needles and rubbed the stopper of the vial w/ an alcohol pad before drawing the liquid back, and use bacteriostatic water in your solutions, I am sure you won't have a problem at all.

Even if you micron filter, if you just use tap water, the solution is likely to grow bacteria - hence the importance of bacteriostatic water.

Also, I'll work on the Micron Filter MT/FAQ now. I just need to get some pictures, and a little dialogue going. It'll be fun to make this MT/FAQ!

 

[BIGsherm7272]

thanks for the input cap'n H. Appreciate it.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

thanks for the input cap'n H. Appreciate it.

Good luck with the taper! Let us know how it goes for you, and best of luck.

You can always slow down the taper if it's too quick for you. Plus if a lower dose doesn't work for you, you can always take more.

 

[fistful_of_needles]

What I would suggest is to taper down on buprenorphine very gradually while implementing drugs like hydroxyzine, since you find benzodiazepines addictive.

-> Suboxone/Subutex Mega Thread

Speaking of Hydroxyzine , yesterday quite by chance I managed to get these Atarax 25mg tablets from a mate who had them lying around without much knowledge about them as opiate boosters/potentiators whatever ... well, needless to say I convinced him to give me a few and today I popped 2 25mgs tabs with my usual Bupre dose and 0.25 Alprazolam and 3mg Bromazepam ...it's been a few hours since I did this and I feel awesome, no cravings whatsoever , no anxieties , nothing ,and on top of it I have this unusual buzz going which I atribute to these Atarax tabs, that and perhaps some Ilvico N I'm taking for the flu since I've noticed it also has some strange anti hystamine in it which may also be contributing to this buzz ... how much hydroxizine do you people usually take on top of your Sub dose ?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Speaking of Hydroxyzine , yesterday quite by chance I managed to get these Atarax 25mg tablets from a mate who had them lying around without much knowledge about them as opiate boosters/potentiators whatever ... well, needless to say I convinced him to give me a few and today I popped 2 25mgs tabs with my usual Bupre dose and 0.25 Alprazolam and 3mg Bromazepam ...it's been a few hours since I did this and I feel awesome, no cravings whatsoever , no anxieties , nothing ,and on top of it I have this unusual buzz going which I atribute to these Atarax tabs, that and perhaps some Ilvico N I'm taking for the flu since I've noticed it also has some strange anti hystamine in it which may also be contributing to this buzz ... how much hydroxizine do you people usually take on top of your Sub dose ?

I usually like to take half or a whole 25mg hydroxyzine tablet after my buprenorphine dose - I sometimes get really noddy/tired off of hydroxyzine - so I like to have already gotten high on bupe before I boost it.

That's just me though.

Hydroxyzine definitely gives you a euphoric buzz, it's hard to describe. It's a great anxiolytic (anxiety-reducing drug), and is a lot less addictive than benzodiazepines (for regular, every-day use). I also like hydroxyzine because half a tablet of most benzos wouldn't be enough to put me under like half a 25mg hydroxyzine tablet does.

I normally wouldn't ever exceed 25mg/day of hydroxyzine though, that's just me. I'm ultra-sensitive to anti-histamine potentiation of opiates. I've actually been considering taking 1/4th of a 25mg pill...the only problem is how small the pill is and how unlikely I'll actually be able to cut it up accurately. It would be much better if I just dissolved it in liquid for injection, then tried it with the Suboxone to see how it goes. I'd rather not do that at the moment though - I only have 1 vial as of right now.

 

[KnowBudz]

thanks guys, I guess I will just slowly reduce it, maybe 1mg every month or something, but I might stay on this dose for a while. Also wondering if my dose of 8mg 2x daily sounds like too much for a 80-120mg a day of oxy habit for around a year....thanks.

And yes, I'm trying to stay clean and eventually get off it and have no desire to use as of right now. Thanks. But I do wish my parents didn't throw away me xanax script

From all I have read and heard, tapering through that last 1-2mg/day can be very difficult. Some folks say they get down below 1mg/day and simply stop with no problem. Others get down below 1mg/day, then experience major difficulties. Usually, any kid of etched-in-stone taper schedule seems to invite trouble. Ideally, you would want to let your own reactions be your guide. Uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms likely indicate you are going to fast. However it goes, you must take care of number one. In my mind, anything that endangers your sobriety is a wrong move.

I might add that there is no equation that sets any kind of rule, ie: use of x amount of drug y, means you should be on z amount of suboxone. It takes what it takes. The only "right" dose for you is the lowest amount that prevents withdrawals and cravings. Trying to taper too early, too fast, and/or too soon has led to many a relapse. Some folks might think "what the fuck? If I have trouble, I'll just go back on suboxone". That kind of thinking fails to take into account that any relapse could be our last!

 

[dopiate]

All right I'm about to order filters and vials finally. So is there a real quality difference between $4 33mm puradisk and the $5 25mm whatmans? I guess I'll also get the pre-sealed 10ml vials. I looked for smaller ones and couldn't find anything sealed like I need, I guess 10ml is small enough and I'll try to make a less concentrated solution. Maybe if I did 20cc = .1mg that would be enough where I would be using a good amount of solution so a vial is finished quicker and I would fill multiple 10ml vials at a time. I want to be at .3mg-.5mg IV per day so 60cc-100cc is perfect for that, I would be using 1ml syringes instead of the 1/2s which I was starting to like but that's not a big deal and I think it is better for a number of reasons to have the solution less concentrated and at that level one 10ml vial would still last 1-2 weeks.

You need to realize that 1ml does not equal 100cc's like you are implying. 1ml=1cc. You would take 60-100 units not cc's per day.

 

[tiimmmmmyyy]

I searched but didn't find anything on this subject.
I'm on 8 mg suboxone, and it's causing some constipation, obviously. What do you guys use daily to help with this? Fiber pills? lactulose? senna? doccusate sodium?

 

[LiVinggProooF]

Just to clear up any concerns, if you take the suboxone too soon you will go into precipitated withdrawals and it is not funn...lets just say i had to shower like 3 times within the hour because of cold sweats to then lay in the bathtub on the verge of tears debating if i should go to the hospital and i took my last dose of oxy the night before and waited till after noon to take my first dose.

On the other hand, if you are on suboxone and you take oxy or any opiate you will not go into precipitated withdrwals. I am not sure about shooting it, but snorting oxy on it will not make you sick. you will not get the desired effect, and you will want to keep doing more and more to feel it where there is a risk of OD.

If you are going on suboxone, you usually go on it for a reason. YOU ARE AN ADDICTT!!! i know dnt worry i was also 2 weeks ago, but i got hooked because of the 3 surgeries i have had on my leg but that a whole nother story that will be told at a different time. soo y fuck up and take oxy again, if thats the case dont go on the subs yet, wait till your ready.

...and yes you can snort suboxone, i was worried at first reading differnt blogs getting strong opinions on both ends and then i just thought about it for a second..what is actually happening when u sniff a sublingual pill.. it attaches on and dissolves..(i know, i should be a doctor ha) of course if u get a huge drip your just swallowing it and pretty much wasting it because its not absorbed well by just swallowing..
There was times when i did feel better from sniffin it, but i usually only sniffed a quarter at most n took the rest sublingually. i just feel that by sniffing it you kinda are defeating the purpose transferring your old addictions onto another. Yea subs taste nasty as shit..but after 2 weeks you dnt even mind it for the magic powers it holds..as more time goes on i take less n less, i wake up in the morning not even needing much i def feel the long half life...well see what happens when i try to get off these tho :/

 

[Rogue Robot]

Homeless -> OD

 

[Trigeminal]

Would someoone please mind telling me whether it's possible to w/d from an 8mg dose taken every ~4 days?

Also why do people say bupe can't be swallowed? I used to swallow them whole because they taste so bad and I would still get high, just not as strong or nearly as long as if taken sublingually or insufflated.

 

[tom80]

Suboxone Paradox...?

Sorry to ask another question in this thread, but bupe is a very odd drug...

I'm been on 8mg a day for the past month, and roughly 20 hrs after my last dose I feel like I'm in mild withdrawals (runny nose, cold sweats, goosebumps, minor aches, anxiety) and this has never happened till now, even past 24hrs of missing my dose. And I'm sure this is no flu or cold.

So my questions are:

1) Is this some sort of paradoxical effect, or is this common? Is it because of tolerance after a month of 8mg/day?

2) Since I'm in mild Bupe withdrawals (I think), would I be able to get a decent high from oxy later on tonight?

 

[Oxymorphone]

I think the 33mm ones might be too big for the standard luer lock??? I have no idea. I have only gotten the 25mm Whatmans, so that's all I can speak for - sorry.

10mL is a small enough size for a vial. I currently use about half of a 30mL vial, and it works just fine and is small enough for me. Before I was using a big old media bottle which was just ridiculous IMO - better for less potent, less concentrated solutions.

I think you probably want to dilute it so that it's slightly on the concentrated end - it's really your choice in the end, but when I'm injecting I prefer a smaller amount of solution to inject instead of a larger amount of a solution. For example...I prefer 10 units of liquid (I prefer to use 10 units of water to dissolve a dose of ketamine, buprenorphine, or any other drug really unless it's a more heavily cut pill like Dormicum).

I also don't know how easy you'll find it to stick to 0.3mg-0.5mg IV per day. I get by on about 4 to 6 shots of 150mcg each day, which yields 0.6mg - 0.9mg per day for me. It took me a while until I got here comfortably and got a rush + high each time. Of course everyone's experience is different, and buprenorphine is a very potent drug.

I just think if you're using your own micron filters, you should be able to stick to the 1/2 CC syringes, especially if you like them more like I do. I actually ordered 3/10 CC syringes recently because I notice I never use most of a 1/2 CC syringe anyways haha.

As for how long the solution will last, I have noticed that even using a media bottle (which exposes the entire solution a lot more so than a vial does) for 12 days in a row didn't present any problems to me. I'm sure a vial would be even more safe. So if you do end up using the same vial for 2 weeks in a row, but have only used sterile needles and rubbed the stopper of the vial w/ an alcohol pad before drawing the liquid back, and use bacteriostatic water in your solutions, I am sure you won't have a problem at all.

Even if you micron filter, if you just use tap water, the solution is likely to grow bacteria - hence the importance of bacteriostatic water.

Also, I'll work on the Micron Filter MT/FAQ now. I just need to get some pictures, and a little dialogue going. It'll be fun to make this MT/FAQ!

All luer locks are the same size, 33mm is the size of the disk. I was just wondering since they are cheaper and do the same thing. Larger disk size simply means more can be run throuh the filter at a time, each size has a different rating for what it is good up to. From everyone who talks about microns they seem to have a bias towards the more expensive whatman brand filters and I'm wondering how the puradisk are an if anyone has used them.

Also what is the difference between sterile and bacterostatic water. I know what bacteriostatic water is specd to and it is guaranteed not to have any bacteria, but isn't sterile water bacteria free too if it is indeed sterile? I only ask because I have hundreds of the 15ml sterile water tubes from the exchange and I will use them unless there is something wrong with that.

I still have yet to place my order since I figure it wouldn't have shipped today anyway. Right now I'm just getting vials and microns. With the vials, are they vacuum sealed from the beginning? I am trying to get a total picture of how they work, once filled when you pull solution from them wouldn't air try to enter into the vial as you suck liquid out since it would cause a vacuum if they are otherwise sealed? i would assume you need tp be careful as you could introduce air to the vial if you accidentally pushed some in with the syringe. If there is no vacuum that would imply external air is entering the vial to stabilize pressure. I'm sure these things have been thought out I would just like to know how they work.

edit: I didn't realize you IVed that much per day and still got euphoria with every shot. .6-.9 IV is equivalent to 2-3mg sublingual. If that dosing works with smaller more frequent amounts I'm definitely going to try it since I plan to get back on a strict no-cheating suboxone only regimen.

 

[tom80]

Suboxone Paradoxical Effect...?

Sorry to ask another question about Suboxone, but bupe is a very odd drug...

I'm been on 8mg a day for the past month, and roughly 20 hrs after my last dose I feel like I'm in mild withdrawals (runny nose, cold sweats, goosebumps, minor aches, anxiety) and this has never happened till now, even past 24hrs of missing my dose. And I'm sure this is no flu or cold.

So my questions are:

1) Is this some sort of paradoxical effect, or is this common? Is it because of tolerance after a month of 8mg/day?

2) Since I'm in mild Bupe withdrawals (I think), would I be able to get a decent high from oxy later on tonight?

Thanks in advance for any input.