Does anybody LIKE Opiate Withdrawal?

[i.am.mookie]

as anyone on this post who had gotten for real dope sick, like going from a bundle or 2bundle of some d to nothin in a matter of a few hrs and going from high as hell to sick a fuck, would agree with me, OPIATE WIDTHDRAWL (the real shit) CAN MAKE UR LIFE SUCK MORE THAN YOU COULD EVER IMAGINE...its like your getting dick ripped off, while some dude fucks your girl infront of u, and another one pisses on your head. haha

real widthdrawl, with the restless legs, the yawning every 2 min, the hot/cold sweats, permanent goosebumps, shittin and puking everywhere...oh and not to forget your mind is going insane and telling you every 2 seconds to go to the hood, and get 4 bags and shoot them all at once and feel like GOD again.

after going thru w/d and getting off drugs and realizing that life is much better without the addiction and constant annoyance of having to buy more and more to just feel normal, let a lone high, and making it back to normal...that only part i enjoyed.

 

[Opiatesrarely]

Yes, it's the idea that opiates are less addicting when you're chipping.

I see. PLEASE-- NOBODY MISUNDERSTAND C.H's QUOTE HERE>> OPIATES ARE STILL SOME OF THE MOST ADDICTIVE DRUGS ON THE PLANET, NO MATTER WHAT!!

If I wanted to IV a milligram of dilaudid (all I would need to get a nice 4 hour high and a great rush), I can, and while the experience would be nice, it's not as "addictive" or "powerful" since I'm not addicted to opiates. I don't have any major WD symptoms anymore, so there's no "-10" for me to go to "+10", it's just 0 to "+10".

I see. So you have IV'd some opioid other than Bupe since getting off of H?

Getting high on drugs seems a lot, lot, lot, lot, lot better when you're in really bad WD from them. For example, I would get "the highest" I normally would off of heroin when I would go get a new bag. Sometimes it would take longer than expected to get in touch with dude man, then meet up somewhere, wait for who knows how long, then the drive back, then the chopping of a line. By the time I'd be having the next line I felt so god awful that when I did get high, it was a whole other level of "getting high on opiates". A lot better than merely busting out another line within another 6 hours or so.

Yeah, and this type of scenario OVER AND OVER again for a many-year IV user is what keeps them going further and further - rock bottom doesn't exist. The pull and addiction gets exponentially greater inversely to the desire to be clean and live a normal life and not be pawning shit off, etc.

What interests me is that when I first had heroin WD, I was only using for a week. It was still horrible IMO. I couldn't get out of bed, felt like I couldn't pay attention or concentrate, I felt like I was in a daze, etc. Lots of apathy/boredom, somewhat of a depressing feeling. I guess my point is - consider yourself lucky you have only had "minor" WD's. For some people, there isn't such a thing as "minor WD's". So, get clean from opiates and stick to chipping or using other, not as addictive drugs if you can't be a responsible chipper (if you can or can't - it's up to you and something only you can realize about yourself).

Well, I never used Heroin for a week straight. I used Oxy for that 2-ish weeks straight with random Heroin encounters, sometimes 2 or 3 days in a row, but never more than 3 heroin days - don't know why, maybe it was lack of funds, or a realization, or getting bored... Take that as you will - maybe Oxy's WD is worse than H's... but what is worse is a large portion subjective.
Wouldn't you still say that your first Heroin WD was minor compared to your last?
I'm only calling mine minor compared to what other people have stated and what I've read elsewhere. I have had all of those symptoms that you stated directly above, but never constant shits/pukes or restless legs. Goosebumps I've had a fair share of... but not near permanent as the poster above me stated.

I don't know if I can be a responsible chipper. I seem to have been, but have let myself use for two weeks straight thinking "Oh, this will be the last time..."
Then again, I get so bored with not having enough sober time, because the drug's high isn't as rewarding anymore, so I stop.
Then again, the majority of times I have stopped I have ran out of money.
Then again, I've never pawned anything off for drugs while sick or not.
Then again, I've messed up relationships over the past 6 months pretty bad.
Then again, I've been smoking weed more than ever and I KNOW that weed exacerbates my tiny bit of anxiety and laziness and lack of motivation.
Then again...

(maybe I'm overanalyzing)

I can responsibly use opiates, which is why I'm choosing not to use anything but buprenorphine.

So, you are responsible to not use anything but bupe?
Or did you mean to say "can't"?


Also, do you get high from your bupe, or do you just use it to maintain?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I see. PLEASE-- NOBODY MISUNDERSTAND C.H's QUOTE HERE>> OPIATES ARE STILL SOME OF THE MOST ADDICTIVE DRUGS ON THE PLANET, NO MATTER WHAT!!

I'll even expand on your point here.

There are some drugs that are obviously addictive - an example might be 4-MMC (I have never tried mephedrone, but others' subjective experiences lend me to think it is one), or crack, etc. These drugs have a high "fiendish" nature to them.

Then there are drugs that are addictive, but not seemingly so. This is worse, because it doesn't take many trials with crack to realize how much of a fiend you can become with it. With opiates, it might take a long time of recreational use to get to a point of dependence.

Not being able to fathom how addictive opiates truly are when you're first using it is dangerous, because you can get addicted before you consciously recognize the addiction/dependency for what its worth.

Opiates addictive nature seems to me to be incognito.

I see. So you have IV'd some opioid other than Bupe since getting off of H?

Yes. Hydromorphone and oxycodone, only once (per substance). I did it mainly to test the waters, and to see if I was still going to crave opiates or not. I didn't really crave to repeat the experience. I used buprenorphine later in the same day for both, without a problem. Didn't increase any tolerance either (because I only used a mild dose of each).

Wouldn't you still say that this first Heroin WD was minor compared to your last?

I wouldn't say "minor", I would say it was to a lesser degree. The only difference was in my last WD, I had more symptoms, and a larger degree of each one. I still had enough unpleasant WD symptoms in my first WD for it to still be very, very unpleasant.

What I consider a "minor" WD are the small, to a lesser degree WD symptoms I get after buprenorphine. I use roughly 600-900 mcg/day (0.6 to 0.9 mg/day) and I don't really get much in the morning when I wake up except yawning, runny nose/eyes, and a light tired feeling.

So, you are responsible to not use anything but bupe?
Or did you mean to say "can't"?

The first. I'm responsible enough to put aside opiates and using opiates to get high for the moment in my life. If I needed to hold onto a lot of any kind of opiate and not use any, any at all, it wouldn't be a problem.

Also, do you get high fron your bupe, or do you just use it to maintain?

Both! Which is awesome. I use it to maintain in the sense that I want several years of sobriety (from heroin) underneath my belt before I plan to get off of buprenorphine, but I also get high with every 150mcg I dose. I also get a rush too, it's just not the same as short acting opiate rushes.

 

[Opiatesrarely]

There are some drugs that are obviously addictive - ... mephedrone...crack, etc. These drugs have a high "fiendish" nature to them. ... it doesn't take many trials with crack to realize how much of a fiend you can become with it. With opiates, it might take a long time of recreational use to get to a point of dependence.

Not being able to fathom how addictive opiates truly are when you're first using it is dangerous, because you can get addicted before you consciously recognize the addiction/dependency for what its worth. Opiates addictive nature seems to me to be incognito.

Opioids are the "perfectly unfortunate" drugs to have this profile.
Alcohol takes even more exposures to become addicted, yet I wouldn't say the addiction is to the degree of opioids.

Yes. Hydromorphone and oxycodone, only once (per substance). I did it mainly to test the waters, and to see if I was still going to crave opiates or not. I didn't really crave to repeat the experience. I used buprenorphine later in the same day for both, without a problem.

Maybe you didn't crave because you used bupe later that day?

I still had enough unpleasant WD symptoms in my first WD for it to still be very, very unpleasant.

I mean, so did I -- unpleasant to crying and people seeing that I am vastly different than my normal, non-opiated self... so maybe I just like to analyze this, then? *career?* If you haven't figured out yet, I'm fresh out of high school...

What I consider a "minor" WD are the small, to a lesser degree WD symptoms I get after buprenorphine. I use roughly 600-900 mcg/day (0.6 to 0.9 mg/day) and I don't really get much in the morning when I wake up except yawning, runny nose/eyes, and a light tired feeling.
---
The first. I'm responsible enough to put aside opiates and using opiates to get high for the moment in my life. If I needed to hold onto a lot of any kind of opiate and not use any, any at all, it wouldn't be a problem.

Well, how do you think you would fare without the bupe (tapered or w/e suits you)?
Would still consider yourself "not addicted"... "never crave"... "hold on to any opiates and not use", etc?

Both! Which is awesome. I use it to maintain in the sense that I want several years of sobriety (from heroin) underneath my belt before I plan to get off of buprenorphine, but I also get high with every 150mcg I dose. I also get a rush too, it's just not the same as short acting opiate rushes.

Again, so you may not fare very well without the bupe today...
Sorry if I'm calling you out on contradictions or if you feel like I'm flaming, but I just like to analyze.
(FUCK, so many variables, so many possible experiments, so little time, so little resources, so little patience... then again, the unknown's are part of life)

EDIT: is this thread getting off-topic? I think it is good information for others, even though it's not 100% HR.
Is this thread more appropriate for ADD/TDS? I guess it has aspects of all of them...

 

[stuckinaloop]

Fucked in the head..period.

Anyone sayjng they like withdrawals is doing some crazy rationalization imo.

For me....honestly, withdrawals are my biggest fear. They are the reason I fall deeper and deeper into addiction. I RUN FROM THEM. The pain is just unbearable. If bupe/methadone didn't exist I don't know what I would do. It's horrible I feel like I am constantly chasing off withdrawals-it's like I feel schitzo. High or in pain. Actually in pain emotionally all the time. Happy one night then I come down with the 'flu' the next night. It must be so obvvious to people I wish I never did opiates and I was normal again.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Maybe you didn't crave because you used bupe later that day?

Nah, it was probably 6 to 8 hours after I had taken the IV dilaudid/oxycodone, and by that time it had well worn off. I wasn't craving at all. I haven't had any cravings for quite some time. I stopped craving heroin shortly after my last use of it over 14 months ago.

Well, how do you think you would fare without the bupe (tapered or w/e suits you)?
Would still consider yourself "not addicted"... "never crave"... "hold on to any opiates and not use", etc?

I've gone 24+ hours after a buprenorphine dose. At the end of my tapering schedule, I plan for it to be painless. I actually suspect this will be the case, since I take 600 to 900 mcg of it per day (150mcg doses, 4-6 times/day), and each decrease I have had thus far haven't been problematic at all.

Also, sometimes I have had 2mg sublingually once per day if I am unable to use my smaller doses. That suits me just fine, and even at the end of it I actually am surprisingly OK feeling (barely any WD symptoms).

Yes, I would consider myself not addicted, never crave, etc. I might still use buprenorphine here and there, but most likely not every day, and definitely in small, 2 or 3 digit mcg doses. I could still definitely hold onto other opiates and not take them. The only scenario I would take opiates again would be if I were a pain patient (I am not). As I know people who are pain patients, I would probably just give them opiates and not take it myself. Since I haven't ever had a problem with any other drug (other than heroin) I have plenty of fun outside of mu-agonist drugs (minus buprenorphine).

Again, so you may not fare very well without the bupe today...
Sorry if I'm calling you out on contradictions or if you feel like I'm flaming, but I just like to analyze.
(FUCK, so many variables, so many possible experiments, so little time, so little resources, so little patience... then again, the unknown's are part of life)

I would fare fine without buprenorphine. It's a cake walk to go 12-24 hours after the dose has stopped effecting you, compared to going that long after your last dose of heroin has stopped effecting you. I barely get WD symptoms outside of yawning, runny nose/eyes, and slight tired feeling (all of these together are less annoying than having just a sore throat or an ear ache or a head/neck ache by itself IMO).

The reason why I don't really get any WD effects anymore is because I take 150mcg at a time, spaced out by 3-5 hours on average. This means I get 53 doses out of an 8mg pill.

EDIT: is this thread getting off-topic? I think it is good information for others, even though it's not 100% HR.
Is this thread more appropriate for ADD/TDS? I guess it has aspects of all of them...

I think it would be more suited for BDD or DC, but this could be OD material. I am not sure.

 

[Opiatesrarely]

Nah, it was probably 6 to 8 hours after I had taken the IV dilaudid/oxycodone, and by that time it had well worn off.

Hah, but that's not enough time to develop a craving! .. a PAWS type craving, which I don't think I've ever had, but I can imagine it to be like the overwhelming urge to use after acute withdrawal is done and the shitty feelings are like they never even happened. Of course, you will feel shitty because you already had that dose earlier in the day, and many people feel like it is a waste unless the day is ended while high (whether it be marijuana, opiates, alcohol, w/e).

Yes, I would consider myself not addicted, never crave, etc.
I would fare fine without buprenorphine. It's a cake walk to go 12-24 hours after the dose has stopped effecting you, compared to going that long after your last dose of heroin has stopped effecting you. I barely get WD symptoms outside of yawning, runny nose/eyes, and slight tired feeling (all of these together are less annoying than having just a sore throat or an ear ache or a head/neck ache by itself IMO).

That's what I'm saying... if today, you stopped buprenorphine - the drug wears off, a day goes by, the drugs are slowly leaving your system, wouldn't you start having pretty bad withdrawal 1) because you have been on bupe for so long and 2) because bupe has a long half life, and withdrawals come long after the effects have subsided?

This part of opiates has got me really confused...
Let me explain - Imagine somebody uses Heroin on every Saturday of the year, and only every saturday of the year. Then, on the first saturday of next year they do not use. Would they madly crave the drug? Would they be in withdrawals? If it was a long acting opiate (but still the once a week thing - hell, maybe two times a week regimen, or even once a month, for a LONG period of time, and then when that cycle comes around to use again on that saturday or such, would there be any withdrawals... any conditioning done to the psyche? (I know this would probably happen with benzos, but that's a WHOLE different ballgame.)

ARrrrGH this scenario (or one along the lines) is something I have wondered ever since I learned what opiates are, how they work, and how somebody gets addicted to them. AND I DON'T KNOW WHO TO ASK! Bluelight doesn't allow hypothetical threads anywhere... and any doctor or psychologist in the world would look at me like I'm an addict or a psycho.

 

[Free_Man**]

^ interesting point oppiates rarely - Great thread

i dont know as much as CH with regards to opiates. but i do have good knowledge of pharms and pharmacology in general. I also have extensive first hand knowledge in addiciton and how it is overcome.

i personally dont think someone would feel w/d if they skipped one saturday... (in the context you have described above) ... i think it would be dependant on how much heroin do they use on these saturdays ?

also even if they used all day as much as was possible safely ... the worst cravings would prob happen the next day or two .... not 7 days later should be gone by then (thats if there would be any cravings at all) - [short half life]

the major risk with using every saturday only - would be psychological ..... the romance of it - and the temptation to use every saturday , and also hey why not friday night as well ? its still the weekend - its ok - i deserve a treat friday AND saturday .... see where im going with this ?

if you was using a long acting opiate every saturday then - you may well notice withdrawals come the next 7 days (depending on how much you took) [long half life]

addiction is two fold only a part of it is related to the body and chemicals -
the psychological side of it would prob suck you in pretty fast.

unless you had a will of iron....

thought id chime in - its an interesting discussion

EDIT

1.) i have prob said some things here which you kinda already know - forgive me for this

2.) i do see where your coming about using it for a year - every saturday, would the addiction slowly increase ? the physical side of it - and would this gradually increase so that eventually skipping a saturday would mean withdrawal symptoms because its built up and up and up for so long and the body has got used to it. I dont personally think this would be an issue. BUT what would happen is the psychological side of things would be a totally different story. I think you would feel a NEED to use again on the saturday you intended to skip - and the need would not necessary result from "withdrawal" ... but from the romantic side of it --- some times cravings have nothing to do with dopamine or mu receptors - some cravings come from somewhere else......some deeper part of us.....

3.) addcition occurs with opiates physically because when you constantly use them the body no longer needs to create so many endorphins (it makes less and less the more you use) Since the endorphins are the ones that actually block the pain naturally (Endorphine means ENDOgenous moRPHINE) when u stop the opiate guess what - Pain! also endorphins make u feel happy and high (hence addicition to exercise- your body releases endorphines when it "thinks" u need them - if your clean) so again u stop the opiate u feel sad... this is how addiction to opiates occurs (basically) also your effecting dopamine in the brain as well - ie increased dopamine transmission in the nucleus accumbens when taking opiates = more pleasure . you stop opiates less pleasure.....

the other side to addiction to opaites (or anything that makes u feel good) occurse psychologically which i have touched on above - there is so much more to it than just the brain or mind tho (in my opinion)

hope this helps

CH please correct any mistakes ive made on the chemistry side of things

thanks

 

[Opiatesrarely]

^ interesting point opiatesrarely - Great thread

Thanks

i personally dont think someone would feel w/d if they skipped one saturday... (in the context you have described above) ... i think it would be dependant on how much heroin do they use on these saturdays ?

It could be, but tolerance wouldn't necessarily be a factor (AHA! I may be contradicting myself by making this statement)... Every answer raises 60 more fucking questions!

the major risk with using every saturday only - would be psychological ..... the romance of it - and the temptation to use every saturday , and also hey why not friday night as well ? its still the weekend - its ok - i deserve a treat friday AND saturday .... see where im going with this ?

Of course I do . But hypothetically speaking... as if it was administered to somebody only on those saturdays... then again, "hypothetically", communism is GOLD.

if you was using a long acting opiate every saturday then - you may well notice withdrawals come the next 7 days (depending on how much you took) [long half life]

understandable

addiction is two fold only a part of it is related to the body and chemicals -
the psychological side of it would prob suck you in pretty fast.
unless you had a will of iron....

That kind of goes for everything though... playing sports, gambling, sex, internet, food, singing.

thought id chime in - its an interesting discussion

That's what it's here for! :D

1.) i have prob said some things here which you kinda already know - forgive me for this

'sall good, homeboy.

2.) i do see where your coming about using it for a year - every saturday, would the addiction slowly increase ? the physical side of it - and would this gradually increase so that eventually skipping a saturday would mean withdrawal symptoms because its built up and up and up for so long and the body has got used to it. I dont personally think this would be an issue. BUT what would happen is the psychological side of things would be a totally different story. I think you would feel a NEED to use again on the saturday you intended to skip - and the need would not necessary result from "withdrawal" ... but from the romantic side of it --- some times cravings have nothing to do with dopamine or mu receptors - some cravings come from somewhere else......some deeper part of us.....

I see what you're getting at.
Maybe I'm ovranalyzing and it could be a moot point... but I like it!

the other side to addiction to opaites (or anything that makes u feel good) occurse psychologically which i have touched on above - there is so much more to it than just the brain or mind tho (in my opinion)

hmmm

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Hah, but that's not enough time to develop a craving!

Sure it is. People get cravings while on drugs. Imagine someone who is used to heroin. If they use oxycodone, dilaudid (especially only 1mg of it), any other weaker opiate (hydrocodone, codeine, etc) - it's likely they'll end up craving heroin. A lot of people would crave more/other opiates, even during the peak, if they were used to heroin.

That's what I'm saying... if today, you stopped buprenorphine - the drug wears off, a day goes by, the drugs are slowly leaving your system, wouldn't you start having pretty bad withdrawal 1) because you have been on bupe for so long and 2) because bupe has a long half life, and withdrawals come long after the effects have subsided?

No, I wouldn't have "pretty bad withdrawal". I use 600-900 mcg of buprenorphine per day max. That's not enough to get "pretty bad withdrawals". I stopped having nasty WD symptoms once I got down to 1300mcg/day or less.

Yes, the withdrawal would be a longer one, but it's barely a withdrawal. When I wake up in the morning I don't feel like I need to take anything. I can wake up, get a glass of water, and do something else, or go back to bed, without having to use buprenorphine.

This part of opiates has got me really confused...
Let me explain - Imagine somebody uses Heroin on every Saturday of the year, and only every saturday of the year. Then, on the first saturday of next year they do not use. Would they madly crave the drug? Would they be in withdrawals? If it was a long acting opiate (but still the once a week thing - hell, maybe two times a week regimen, or even once a month, for a LONG period of time, and then when that cycle comes around to use again on that saturday or such, would there be any withdrawals... any conditioning done to the psyche? (I know this would probably happen with benzos, but that's a WHOLE different ballgame.)

I don't think someone would have withdrawals from once a week dosing. They may still "madly crave" the drug, but that's dependent on several factors (some people wouldn't, others would).

 

[star1980craft]

i cant say i enjoyed the feeling of withdrawals no.

What i did enjoy however was the feeling of getting a hit or a chase when i was going through the withdrawals ... in other words sorting my self out

 

[Hasso]

A 60mg per day habit is quite mild. I stopped using cold turkey from a 250mg a day habit a week ago and I still feel like shit. Thank god my script gets refilled today =)

 

[Opiatesrarely]

Sure it is. People get cravings while on drugs. Imagine someone who is used to heroin. If they use oxycodone, dilaudid (especially only 1mg of it), any other weaker opiate (hydrocodone, codeine, etc) - it's likely they'll end up craving heroin. A lot of people would crave more/other opiates, even during the peak, if they were used to heroin.

Makes sense... if I kind of crave opiates, but can easily defeat the craving until it goes away and I smoke some weed-- once I start getting burnt out from weed and coming down, I get cravings for opiates... but that could be due to the anxiety I have started getting from weed.

I don't think someone would have withdrawals from once a week dosing. They may still "madly crave" the drug, but that's dependent on several factors (some people wouldn't, others would).

I always thought length of time on a drug was a huge determinant in how bad withdrawal will be mentally and physically. (then again, the length of time used, tolerance, dependencies, and addiction go hand in hand for abusers)

If somebody took ultra-low dose of opioids-- 1mg of codeine every day for two years, then stopped, it would probably be somewhat like you described... either nonexistant withdrawals; mostly psychological; or very light withdrawals. If they were not even knowing that they were being dosed, such a low dose at that, they might have some physical withdrawals, again if any at all, and the person would just think they got slightly sick or something kind of like what happens to pain patients who don't know a thing about opiates, whether they feel euphoria or not... they don't even crave, they just think they have the flu!

i cant say i enjoyed the feeling of withdrawals no.

What i did enjoy however was the feeling of getting a hit or a chase when i was going through the withdrawals ... in other words sorting my self out

I can definitely imagine that being a good feeling. Especially, reinforcing as hell.



Would anybody consider that a "new level" to getting high on opiates?
Not just recrational use, but getting your "FIX"? ("getting fixed" has become a term that simply means "use a recreational drug" to many, but I believe it came from being "broken" in WD's, or craving coke or speed, and fixing this "problem".

 

[asouthern]

I hate withdrawal as much as the next junkie, but there is times where withdrawal is sort of enjoyable. Like for example when I'm in withdrawal music seems more enjoyable, and I get rushes of optimism and will feel nostalgic about the past sometimes. Also I can actually cum which feels kind of good when in withdrawal.

i am pretty similar to you in a few ways when it comes to withdrawal. i believe it's the emotional instability that enhances the appreciation for music for me, but during my last bad WD i was spinning the same few songs over and over again (mainly a lot of Arcade Fire and Elliott Smith) and loving it. even now, when i'm still getting high, i am immediately reminded of that period of withdrawal when i hear certain songs.

oh and being able to get your nut is always pretty awesome as well

 

[Opiatesrarely]

i believe it's the emotional instability that enhances the appreciation for music for me... even now, when i'm still getting high, i am immediately reminded of that period of withdrawal when i hear certain songs.

But it is a good reminding, right?
You don't get reminded of any of the bad side effects, but you do get reminded of the intense optimism and euphoria you got from hearing the song, IMO.

Or is it the opposite? Do you listen to some songs and say "FUCK CHANGE TEH MUZIX!" ?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I always thought length of time on a drug was a huge determinant in how bad withdrawal will be mentally and physically. (then again, the length of time used, tolerance, dependencies, and addiction go hand in hand for abusers)

Well yes, but it factors in with all of the other factors. I had worse WD's from taking heroin 1 to 2 times per day for a week and then running out than I do from going 24 hours + without buprenorphine (after consistently using it for over one and a half years). Buprenorphine itself, as a partial agonist, does not activate the mu-opioid receptor in the same way as full agonists, and I theorize it doesn't really "up-regulate" your mu-opioid receptors a whole lot (like morphine, or heroin do).

I think this, along with the fact I'm only using 600-900 mcg per day (1000mcg = 1mg), and the fact that I've been tapering down slowly for a long time now, all lead to me not having bad WD symptoms whatsoever. The only ones I get are the ones that are super-comfortable to live with, even if they did last for 3 weeks + (runny eyes/nose, slight tired feeling, yawning).

If somebody took ultra-low dose of opioids-- 1mg of codeine every day for two years, then stopped, it would probably be somewhat like you described... either nonexistant withdrawals; mostly psychological; or very light withdrawals. If they were not even knowing that they were being dosed, such a low dose at that, they might have some physical withdrawals, again if any at all, and the person would just think they got slightly sick or something kind of like what happens to pain patients who don't know a thing about opiates, whether they feel euphoria or not... they don't even crave, they just think they have the flu!

I don't think you would notice the difference between taking 1mg of codeine every day for two years and stopping. The reason being I don't think 1mg of it is enough to feel anything. Unless you were on MAOI's or something which severely potentiated opiates, or were already very, very, very sensitive to them (I think the BL user Unlucky might ring a bell for some people) wouldn't be able to feel 1mg of codeine.

 

[Opiatesrarely]

I see. Oh yeah, bupe is not a full agonist. Good point.

The only ones I get are the ones that are super-comfortable to live with, even if they did last for 3 weeks + (runny eyes/nose, slight tired feeling, yawning).

That's interesting (just those symptoms, none else) - I wonder if it has to do with the partial agonism. Yeah, it wouldn't be so bad to live with them.
So you get absolutely NO change in depression/anxiety, overall uncomfortable feeling, no insomnia, not even a bit of a craving?!
I would consider the ones that you mentioned to be the first to come in the sequence of withdrawal, but what about the next ones... slight watery eyes... CHILLS, GOOSEBUMPS?!
Well, for me chills and goosebumps are some of the first, since I usually am cold in which temperatures most people are comfortable.

I don't think you would notice the difference between taking 1mg of codeine every day for two years and stopping.

Hmm. My point is that you are still taking AT LEAST something that is introduced into the body, instead of natural endorphins or peptides from food.
Ok, I guess these infinite hypothet.-situations are a bit unpractical to look at, but it always had me wondering.

 

[asouthern]

But it is a good reminding, right?
You don't get reminded of any of the bad side effects, but you do get reminded of the intense optimism and euphoria you got from hearing the song, IMO.

Or is it the opposite? Do you listen to some songs and say "FUCK CHANGE TEH MUZIX!" ?

i'm just reminded of the time i spent withdrawing. the emotions i was feeling, mainly. those emotions are typically regret ("how did i let myself get to this point," etc.) the struggle of overcoming my dependence, that sort of thing. i wouldn't call the feelings negative by any means as for me the experience of withdrawing is just as rewarding as it is painful. every day, even every hour, i know that i am just that much closer to being "right." it's a weird process for me. i know the first time i went through intense withdrawals from opiates i wanted to cry, call my parents and confess everything i've been doing, basically being ashamed of myself but at the same time proud that i was making the choice to get myself straight. i've never had to quit because of legal reasons or because of my job or anything like that. it's always been for personal reason which, in my opinion, is the only reason/way anyone will ever kick a habit. you can't do it for someone else, just for yourself. so when i'm listening to music while in the heart of withdrawals it ignites some kind of inspiration within me that i am reminded of even now when i am getting high.

it's hard to explain, really, so sorry if that doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Opiatesrarely]

i'm just reminded of the time i spent withdrawing. the emotions i was feeling, mainly. those emotions are typically regret ("how did i let myself get to this point," etc.) the struggle of overcoming my dependence, that sort of thing. i wouldn't call the feelings negative by any means as for me the experience of withdrawing is just as rewarding as it is painful. every day, even every hour, i know that i am just that much closer to being "right." it's a weird process for me. i know the first time i went through intense withdrawals from opiates i wanted to cry, call my parents and confess everything i've been doing, basically being ashamed of myself but at the same time proud that i was making the choice to get myself straight. i've never had to quit because of legal reasons or because of my job or anything like that. it's always been for personal reason which, in my opinion, is the only reason/way anyone will ever kick a habit. you can't do it for someone else, just for yourself. so when i'm listening to music while in the heart of withdrawals it ignites some kind of inspiration within me that i am reminded of even now when i am getting high.

it's hard to explain, really, so sorry if that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Makes perfect sense, I understand with every point on which you are touching EXCEPT for one.
You say the only way anyone will kick a habit is if they want it for themselves... what does that mean if it doesn't entail legal/job reasons?
Just health and peace of mind? Those are very important aspects, but I'm just having trouble understanding what you would put into the category of "yourself."

 

[dragonslayer428]

The times I went through withdrawals from roxicodone, I felt like I was at hells gates. One of the worst feelings in the world, in my opinion. So, NO. I find nothing enjoyable about it.