Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[Oxymorphone]

The above bolded step is incorrect; I notice if you don't put the micron filter on before taking the plunger out, water will just fall out the tip of the syringe.

I'll create new, updated, final steps in a second.

You didn't answer my question about how pre-sealed vials work and when using a media bottle that can be opened how it doesn't become desterilized and possibly a source for bacteria to grow in once the solution touches air. I think it is a really bad idea to have a month's supply in a big media bottle with a stopper. I am even hesitent about using 10ml pre-sealed vials that would last a week or so.

I'm thinking if I had containers that big I would need to d0 20 units = .1mg so a 1/2CC syringe filled to the top marker would be .25mg which is a good daily dose and allow for larger .5mg doses with 1CC syringes. That way if it is separated into 10ml vials the most one vial would last is 2 weeks which is still too much IMO. 5ml or smaller vials would be ideal.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Shooting Suboxone

So anyway back to bupe and vials and stuff, if I go with the presealed vials how does filling and then taking doses out of them work while keeping the solution sterile and bacteria free? What about the non sealed media bottles that need caps? The site has many different kinds of caps and I'm not sure which is best. I asked this in another thread I think, I'll check if it was answered.

If you get presealed vials, follow the procedure I have outlined below.

How to micron filter Suboxone (or any other drug) for IV

You can use as much water and as many Suboxone tablets as you'd like, but 24mg/16mL = 1.5mg/mL. This solution will yield 0.15mg for every 10 units.

What you will need (everything other than the Suboxone tablets can be procured from gpzservices.com - though I got my 18G needle tips and rubbing alcohol pads elsewhere):

• Whatman 0.2 micron filter
• Bacteriostatic water vial, 30 mL
• 20 CC luer lock syringe
• 18G needle tips
• 3 Suboxone tablets
• presealed sterile vial
• rubbing alcohol pads

What you do:

1. After washing your hands thoroughly, sterilize the rubber top of the bacteriostatic water vial.
2. Attach 18G needle (any gauge will do, the larger the quicker) and draw back 16 CC into the syringe. Pull the bacteriostatic water vial off of the needle. You will have to do this as the plunger of the syringe will be pressurized to return back to 0 CC if you don't hold onto it as you're pulling the vial off of the needle.
3. Remove the needle, cap and discard. Screw on the micron filter onto the tip of the luer lock syringe. Pull the plunger out, and back load the Suboxone tablets. Replace the plunger, but don't push it far in. Unscrew the micron filter partially so you can push air out of the tip of the syringe without pushing water through the micron filter (the micron filter will already have absorbed some of the water from the syringe, enabling it to be a little moist before you push the pill through it.) When the plunger is back in place, make sure you screw the micron back on fully.
4. Shake the syringe (or simply let it set for a few minutes) to dissolve the tablets. Once the tablets have fully dissolved, what you should do is to slip a new needle tip onto the end of the micron filter**. Sterilize the top of your vial with a rubbing alcohol pad. Push the needle through the top of the vial, and push the plunger down, slowly but surely.
5. Once done, pull the needle out of the vial and put away the used micron filter, used syringe, and needle tip. Whenever you need your solution, just remember to sterilize the top before putting a needle through. Enjoy!

** so that what you have going on looks like this:

|-[|....,....,....,....,....,....,....,....|{MicronFilter}====o>
plunger, syringe, . , . , . , . , . , micron , . , . needle^bevel

So, all variables aside and just a very general opinion (YOUR opinion), what is the "ideal" bupe dose taken via insufflation (50% bioavailability) to stay at the level where nor-bupe can be received and still "hold you down"? I know that EVERYONE will be very different, but I don't have a clue as far as area.

For someone without a hefty opiate tolerance, I would estimate 4mg per day or less. If you recently got on Suboxone or recently quit taking opiates, or have a high opiate tolerance, it might be more.

What I would do for someone who prefers to snort: bust out 2mg into powder, snort tiny bits here and there throughout the day. You can get another 2mg out if you need it, but try to conserve and see how far you can stretch it.

You can easily use 2mg snorted in 2 or 4 different piles throughout part of the day so that you don't go through more than 4mg give or take per day.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You didn't answer my question about how pre-sealed vials work and when using a media bottle that can be opened how it doesn't become desterilized and possibly a source for bacteria to grow in once the solution touches air. I think it is a really bad idea to have a month's supply in a big media bottle with a stopper. I am even hesitent about using 10ml pre-sealed vials that would last a week or so.

To be fair, I just finished using a media bottle that lasted me 12 days. If you use a presealed vial, I would expect to be able to get 1 to 2 weeks out of it no problem. I thought a week might be a better length of time but 2 weeks for me is fine. I see no problem, especially now that I'm using a vial and not a media bottle.

 

[Oxymorphone]

^I get the whole process of filtering very well, the only part that confuses me a bit is how the sealed tops of the vials work. Once filled is the top made of a material porous enough to allow a needles to be slid through it then it automatically re-seals itself? A close up picture od these tops would be useful.

I know there is an option to just stick a cork or stopper on top and open and close the container whenever you want but that does not seem ideal for our purposes.

Ad for their unsealed vials with separate tops- does that mean you have to use a $180 crimping tool to do it yourself? If so that makes a good case for the pre-sealed 10s, I just wish they had 5s or even little 2-3cc vials that I could have a stash of would be perfect. Know of any? I'm just afraid that as careful as you might be using clean sterile needles you could contaminate a whole bottle of solution quickly and not know it and get sick.

 

[Oxymorphone]

To be fair, I just finished using a media bottle that lasted me 12 days. If you use a presealed vial, I would expect to be able to get 1 to 2 weeks out of it no problem. I thought a week might be a better length of time but 2 weeks for me is fine. I see no problem, especially now that I'm using a vial and not a media bottle.

Yeah I want small vials that will last a week tops of daily use. You get a week even out of a 10ml?

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

80mg is not natural tolerance, he will be fine, i always tell people to start with .5 or 1 at most.

i didnt say it was... i know people who use 20mg everyday for 6 months without going over

then i know people who tried 30mg one day first timer, took 30mg the next day and didnt get high, took 60mg the next day and got high, u do the math as his life goes on...

thats what i meant by "natural tolerence" u took it too literal cuz i wasnt even thinking like that...

 

[Oxymorphone]

thats what i meant by "natural tolerence" u took it too literal cuz i wasnt even thinking like that...

Well you should be clear how you type so you don't have to tell me "i took it too literal" because I interpret what is written and don't read minds.

 

[boohnatetan]

how long suboxone blocks opiates and some other info

this is my first post....I did a lot of research on the ever so famous question, "How long until you can get high on opiates after your last dose of suboxone?" This is just my own person experience and I know everybody is different but I see a lot of ppl ask so I just thought I'd share my experience.

I was taking 2-4 mgs per day for about 3-4 months. I waited 32 hours EXACTLY and insufflated two 30 mg oxycodones. I'm about 5'9" 155lbs...pretty fast metabolism you could say. I definitely caught a "decent" buzz off of 60mgs. Definitely didn't feel like it worked 100% but like i said it was decent.

Before I got back on suboxone this time I was doing between 3-4 30mg pills at a clip, so I dunno if my tolerance might just still be about the same or not. I was a heavy opiate user on and off for the past 5 years. I had two years clean time without ANYTHING before getting back on the wagon.

Weaned myself off with a fast suboxone taper the first time (about two weeks). I would definitely say that a fast taper is the best way to go. It was seriously a walk in the park when I did it in two weeks. Ive been on it this time for 3-4 months though and have no idea what it will be like this time.

If you really want to figure out how long it will take you to get high after ur last dose some basic math is all you need. For instance, say I do 3 mgs a day...suboxone stacks so from ur first day when u do 3mgs..the next day u have approx half that (1.5mgs) in ur system if u wait a full day..so when u dose the next day you will have the 1.5 + ur regular dose of 3mgs which is 4.5...basically u gain 1.5 mgs each day. So it'd be followed by 6mgs the next day, 7.5 the day after, 9 the day after that..etc..

..suboxone has a ceiling of 32 mgs..so u cannot get more affects from it even if u were to do 64mgs of it at one time. So for most of us who are on it for more than a couple weeks, it just keeps stacking a little each day..and eventually we will all hit the peak of 32 mgs if we are on it long enough unless we take breaks in between or do less one day than the day before.

So with the max ceiling of 32 mgs and a mean half life of 37hrs...1 half life would be down to 16 mgs, the 2nd half life down to 8 mgs, the third half life down to 4, the fifth down to 2, the sixth down to 1, the seventh to .5...and so on. Once you get down to about 2 mgs (which is 5 half lives from the ceiling of 32 mgs) you should be able to feel decent effects of opiates. 5X37=185 hrs...185/24=7.7083333 days....so the answer is to feel basically the full effects u need to wait a full week or even a little longer.

You can feel the effects sooner like i said from my experience after waiting 32 hours exactly. You can probably start to feel the effects after 24 hrs or maybe even less but it will be nowhere near as if you were to wait the full amount of time. I hope this clears up the question for a lot of ppl.

 

['doner]

PARAGRAPHS - I know Im a Noob- But break that up a bit

 

[Ant0lak]

I used to take 2mg-4mg a day while dopesick on days I couldnt get heroin. Usually I would have to wait at least 24 hours, sometimes 48 hours to feel iit. I found it irksome how on some days I would IV two bags in the same 24 hours and feel most of the effects and on other days IV the same amount(same dealer, same quality) well over 40 hours after taking the subs and hardly feel anything.

 

[jspun]

1.) I believe to summarize what the OP said: bupe is a drug that accumulates until you hit steady state levels. @ a dose of 2-4 mg for several months in his experience you can feel a decent although not a full high in about a day and a half.

2.) A fast taper (over 2 weeks) seems to be more effective than staying on it a while, stabalizing, then tapering over a long time.

3.) The effects are cummulative and it takes several days to achieve steady state and the ceiling it takes several weeks of continuous use.

4.) To feel the full effects it would take about a week of abstinence after chronic use. The question in my mind would be how long would it take for the withdrawls to kick in and kick in at a level that is intolerable. Do full agonists like dope or oxy relieve the withdrawl from stoping bupe when it does set in?

5.) I have heard that after the drug is down to levels for which it is not providing significant blocking ones tolerance to full agonists is unusually low- it is easy to overestimate the dose, unlike taper from methadone (a full agonist) then resumption of other opiates.

 

[boohnatetan]

sorry about the paragraphs guys...it didnt even dawn on me until i looked at it right now lol

to answer ur last question though, i was starting to feel slight withdrawals at the 32 hour mark..they actually started a few hours prior. but it was NOTHING like full blown withdrawal. and yes the oxycodone took all of that away.

My pupils were looking pretty big (a lot bigger than normal) before i did the oxycodones. About 15 mins after i kept checkin my pupils and they definitely got a lot smaller. Not quite as small as they used to get when i had no suboxone in my system..but fairly small.

I think i even made the withdrawals seem worse than they were because the junky in me really wanted to try out some of those pills that i hadnt done for months.

I would say that around the 48 hr mark you would be in pretty bad withdrawal. And definitely full blown by 72hrs, unless you are taking the max amount (32mgs) of bupe everyday...then it could probably be at its worse around 4-5 days.

When i did the 2 week taper, i believe it was just long enough to clean all of the full opiod agonists (Fentanyl, OC, oxycodone...etc..) out of my system. and just long enough not to get fully addicted to the suboxone (which is a partial opiod agonist)

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^I get the whole process of filtering very well, the only part that confuses me a bit is how the sealed tops of the vials work. Once filled is the top made of a material porous enough to allow a needles to be slid through it then it automatically re-seals itself? A close up picture od these tops would be useful.

Yes, that is how it works. I could get you a picture of it but I'll need some time.

Ad for their unsealed vials with separate tops- does that mean you have to use a $180 crimping tool to do it yourself? If so that makes a good case for the pre-sealed 10s, I just wish they had 5s or even little 2-3cc vials that I could have a stash of would be perfect. Know of any? I'm just afraid that as careful as you might be using clean sterile needles you could contaminate a whole bottle of solution quickly and not know it and get sick.

I'm not sure how unsealed vials work but I am thinking you seal it shut yourself with the same top. 10CC is a good size, because if you are only planning on making a few CC's at a time, it'll be a good portion of a 10CC vial and you should be able to estimate how much you have left.

As long as you only put new needles through the pore you shouldn't have any problems with contamination.

 

[DeLee]

Hey, Captain.Heroin;
I read a post of you were u stated that you dissolve some Suboxone with an amount of water then let it sit for 4-5mins and then when the binders have sunk to the bottom
you draw up the clear liquid that lies ontop of it.
Is that correct?

Because when i dissolve my Suboxone on the surface are some small, tings floating around. Some kind of filler or something. Something i def don't want it my body.
How do you deal with that?

Or maybe its dose dependent... i usually dissolve 0.5mg-1mg with 0.5-0.7ml of cold water.
Maybe it is dose dependent, i know you do really small doses of Bupe..

Some input?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Yeah I want small vials that will last a week tops of daily use. You get a week even out of a 10ml?

I go through about 50-60 units/day at 10 units per dose, so for me 10mL would last about 16 to 20 days.

If you want about a weeks' worth, then I would use 4-5 mL (about half of a 10mL vial).

Hey, Captain.Heroin;
I read a post of you were u stated that you dissolve some Suboxone with an amount of water then let it sit for 4-5mins and then when the binders have sunk to the bottom
you draw up the clear liquid that lies ontop of it.
Is that correct?

Yeah, before I got my microns that is how I set up my solution. The sediment at the bottom = the crap, and the liquid on top = the shot.

Because when i dissolve my Suboxone on the surface are some small, tings floating around. Some kind of filler or something. Something i def don't want it my body.
How do you deal with that?

Um...does it look like liquid or is it particles? If it's particles I don't know why that would be.

Or maybe its dose dependent... i usually dissolve 0.5mg-1mg with 0.5-0.7ml of cold water.
Maybe it is dose dependent, i know you do really small doses of Bupe..

Some input?

That sounds about right to me. When I used to use more than I do now per shot, that's about how much water I'd add in to how much bupe.

To be honest I'm not sure why there's stuff floating on top of your solution. Do you have cottons you can filter with? This might get rid of w/e is floating on top.

 

[DeLee]

Captain.Heroin:
It looks like tiny particles that floats ontop in the surface.

Yes, i always use cotton to filter with, tried your technique today, but its hard with the small crap on the surface, had to be really carefull not to draw them in.
Only drew up maybe 0.2ml then i threw in the cotton and drew up the rest.

What i can remember i have always had these things on the surface, not sure about Subutex though because it was years since i shot Subutex.

Maybe its some kind of filler that the brand i use have, though i don't know if there are more brands world wide.
The brand here in Sweden is Schering-Plough and right now i use Suboxone 2mg (2mg Bupe / 0.5 Naloxone)

 

[BIGsherm7272]

ok, quick question for those who are using suboxone to get off opiates. I was just recently placed on 8mg 2x daily, and while it is doing wonders for me, I really would like to know how fast or slow I should taper down. I would just quit opiates and deal with wd's, but I am still recovering from surgery on my hip from an auto accident and can't deal with the wd right now.

I would prefer to taper down as quickly as possible without too many bad side effects, so does anyone have a good dosing schedule recommendation for me? Any help is appreciated.

oh and one more thing. I was using about 80-120mg of oxy a day for about 8 months, and was just wondering if my dose of bupe sounds too high or about right. I feel absolutely no wd's and actually think I feel the bupe throughout the day.....I would like to take as little as possible without wd's. thanks again.

 

[Trigeminal]

Ok this will be my last post about this, but I am wondering if I am actually even w/ding? The more I think about it the more I am starting to believe you can't actually get withdrawals from a sub every 5 days. My friend is telling me the same thing.

What do you guys think? My back is fucking killing me, these are not really that similar to withdrawals I've experienced from dope. In the past I've used upwards of 12 mg of subs every other day and never got withdrawals. At one point about 3 years ago I was taking 6-8 mg a day when my doctor cut me off because I relapsed on heroin and never got withdrawals then either. So it's strange I would have them now from such small and especially infrequent doses. The only reason I feel like I'm w/d and it's not actually something else is b/c my nose stops running every time I take a sub.

Thoughts?


BTW, Oxymorphone, I apologize about my preachy post. That was 100% about me and I just lashed out at someone.

I would prefer to taper down as quickly as possible without too many bad side effects, so does anyone have a good dosing schedule recommendation for me? Any help is appreciated.

If you check out Suboxone.com they have a recommended tapering schedule that might help you.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Captain.Heroin:
It looks like tiny particles that floats ontop in the surface.

Hm....that doesn't happen with my solution. Sorry to hear that. I have no idea what it is.

Yes, i always use cotton to filter with, tried your technique today, but its hard with the small crap on the surface, had to be really carefull not to draw them in.
Only drew up maybe 0.2ml then i threw in the cotton and drew up the rest.

What i can remember i have always had these things on the surface, not sure about Subutex though because it was years since i shot Subutex.

Maybe its some kind of filler that the brand i use have, though i don't know if there are more brands world wide.
The brand here in Sweden is Schering-Plough and right now i use Suboxone 2mg (2mg Bupe / 0.5 Naloxone)

Can you list me the active & inactive ingredients list? Can you find that information?

I don't know how other manufacturers make Suboxone but I know R&B's formulation doesn't leave anything floating on the top other than liquid.

I am wondering what kind of inactive ingredient would float on water like that...I'm rather interested if you can find the info.

Also, are micron filters available in Sweden? If so I would just use those, but I'd be interested to know what exactly it is floating atop.

 

[rolls_]

I would prefer to taper down as quickly as possible without too many bad side effects, so does anyone have a good dosing schedule recommendation for me? Any help is appreciated.

Are you using just the suboxone? If you are still occasionally using on top then don't think about tapering until you have gone at least a month whilst being 'clean'.

Sure you might be able to taper down fast and get off it but your chance of relapse will be high. The longer you are stable on the program and not using the less likely you are to relapse once you come off it.