Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[Captain.Heroin]

how do you stand the taste of that stuff?
it makes me sick

Using another ROA that doesn't involve the mouth or nasal palette. :D

 

[Oxyrisin2]

Snorting is the best,, it has a better taste than dissolving under tongue%).

 

[rolls_]

So I am prescribed 8mg daily of suboxone, being christmas I have 2 take aways for the next 2 days. I plan to use just 1 8mg per day as perscribed but I want to get a bit more out of it because, well its christmas so I plan to snort it.

What is the best way, snort a bit of water to wet your nose, crush the pills then snort them slowly and let them sit?

 

[matterofperception]

I just crushed up the pill and bumped it no need to add any water to your nose. Just start a little slower since the intranasal BA of sub is higher than the sublingual BA.

 

[rolls_]

Ok I will just do bumps slowly over say 30minutes, but I think I will still pre wet my nose, will make sure the powder has something to dissolve in.

The problem I've found with sublingual is I get a MASSIVE amount of saliva and have trouble keeping it in my mouth for more than 30 seconds to 1 minute. After that I have an entire mouthful of saliva and it is useless so I have to swallow it, hence I don't think I get more than 50% of the 8mg at most. If I go for a jog to the chemist on a hot day dehydrating myself so I get bugger all saliva I get quite high on the run home, don't want to get smashed just want to get a bit of a buzz for chrissy lol.

Have been almost 3 months clean now so hopefully I can drop to 6mg in the new year.

 

[KnowBudz]

I also found the taste to be offensive. I have heard of some people who take a spoonful of honey along with it, something that never sounded much better.

I'm curious about the poster who started at 32mg.....did the doc offer any explanation? There is quite a range of approaches to dosing: some are extremely tight, and have self-imposed "limits" on what they will offer. Others (like yours) swing in the opposite direction. I have a high tolerance, and am a "fast metabolizer" to boot, and I started at 16mg, stayed there close to a year, then went up to 24. Now I am taking 12. I hope it works out for you, and hope that you discuss your dose with your doc. I would take advice telling you to switch doses on your own with a grain of salt.

 

[Alternity]

Whoa! Who said the new generic Subutex is SMALL? You've obviously never seen them before. They're gigantic compared to the 8mg Brand name! I got a bottle right here and they're much more tightly packed (harder, unlike Subutex which isn't bound tightly to itself)

One 8mg Roxane Buprenorphine Generic is almost EXACTLY the size of a 5mg Percocet. Is that your reason why they're good for slamming? My Desoxyn, now, THAT is small, the size of 1/2 a Tic-tac each. They manufactured that stuff to be shot.

But the Subutex v. Generic, it's much easier to shoot the brand. Roxxie Labs put in microcrystalline cellulose, and the kicker which is a really strong hydro-philic (I get them mixed up) substance, forget its name, but all that filler does is basically absorb about 100x it's own volume in water. So it gets all bloated and each little floatingsuper-saturated flake is so big I can't use a micron filter on THAT that stuff just clogs the fliter after a few seconds.

One good thing about the Genric is that it includes'Vasodine' (I think), as in the Betadine family. All IT does is keep your solution 100% sterile, and its harmless. I like to take 9x8mg Subutexuse the moretar and pestle to crush in full and use 15CC of Sterile Waterto add to the 72mg of Bupe.Mix it thoroughly and add a few degrees of heat to the solution and then cool it down.

What type of micron filters has anybody has success with?
BTW, a filter is unnecessary for substance with varying solubility levels I pour my solution (making sure is at max viscosity) into a test tube and seal the cap and toos that baby in the centrifuge for 5 minutes min. When I remove the tube, it's just Crystal clear liquid with what looks like a white chunch it's packed so hard to the bottome of the tupe. Then I draw up the crystal clear liquid with no filter, i use a stainless steel Leur-Lok 7" long needle, 12 Guage maybe, for spinal taps obviously. But it's long enough to get all the liquid and then I just fill up some 10mL Injection Vials after putting a new 23 or 25 G needle on the Syringe. I usually recover 14.8-14.9CC on the syringe chanber. After siphoning off the liquid you can literally turn the test tube upside down and the white filler crap stays put untill you soak and dislodge it when cleaning up.

Anybody have any really successful ways to use a micron filter(s) without them clogging right away from particulates?I have like 20 micron filter assorted, including Watson brand and a bunch of other well known makers. Also, what TYPE of filter is it? It's always a four letter stamp (indication what it's ideal use is for) so any info would help. Don't forget to mention the density of the inner mesh.

-Alternity

 

[Pegasus]

I never understood either why Suboxone dissolves so slowly sublingually compared with traditional sublingual wafers... It seems like it's impossible to not swallow some when it takes forever to dissolve.

 

[rolls_]

in the centrifuge for 5 minutes min.

I'm going to go ahead and assume less than 1% of BL has access to a centrifuge.

Anyway bump to my old post, who has some tips for snorting bupe?

 

[Pegasus]

^I did it very regularly, there isn't too much to it that you haven't already discussed. A moist nasal cavity and smallish bumps are really the keys to maximum nasal absorption.

 

[oudadisworld]

Captian - you are referring to shooting the bupe?

Have you ever shot oxy?

I'm curious the effects that you get from shooting your bupe

 

[benway m.d.]

when i iv sub i don't really feel it as well as a sublingual or insufflated dose. has this been anyone's experience? do you know why this is?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Whoa! Who said the new generic Subutex is SMALL? You've obviously never seen them before. They're gigantic compared to the 8mg Brand name! I got a bottle right here and they're much more tightly packed (harder, unlike Subutex which isn't bound tightly to itself)

One 8mg Roxane Buprenorphine Generic is almost EXACTLY the size of a 5mg Percocet. Is that your reason why they're good for slamming? My Desoxyn, now, THAT is small, the size of 1/2 a Tic-tac each. They manufactured that stuff to be shot.

You're incorrect. Desoxyn's inactive ingredients:

Inactive Ingredients

Corn starch, lactose, sodium paraminobenzoate, stearic acid and talc.

Talc, when injected, is going to end up in your lungs.

I hate to argue with you but you're vastly incorrect in saying that your desoxyn pills were manufactured to be shot - they weren't. You still should use a micron filter on Desoxyn like you would most pills before IVing. The size of a pill is not the only factor which makes it IV friendly.

But the Subutex v. Generic, it's much easier to shoot the brand. Roxxie Labs put in microcrystalline cellulose, and the kicker which is a really strong hydro-philic (I get them mixed up) substance, forget its name, but all that filler does is basically absorb about 100x it's own volume in water. So it gets all bloated and each little floatingsuper-saturated flake is so big I can't use a micron filter on THAT that stuff just clogs the fliter after a few seconds.

That's why you would pre-filter such a crappy pill with cotton before micron filtering it.

One good thing about the Genric is that it includes'Vasodine' (I think), as in the Betadine family. All IT does is keep your solution 100% sterile, and its harmless. I like to take 9x8mg Subutexuse the moretar and pestle to crush in full and use 15CC of Sterile Waterto add to the 72mg of Bupe.Mix it thoroughly and add a few degrees of heat to the solution and then cool it down.

No inactive ingredient in a pill is going to keep a solution you make out of the pill sterile. That's a horrible thing to tell people. Do you have any facts to back up "it's harmless" with? I seriously doubt MORE inactive ingredients in your IV solution isn't a good thing at all.

There's also absolutely NO need AT ALL to heat buprenorphine in water - buprenorphine dissolves in cold water and does not need to be heated at all. You're just ensuring more inactive ingredients get into your solution. This is NOT GOOD if you are planning to IV!

What type of micron filters has anybody has success with?
BTW, a filter is unnecessary for substance with varying solubility levels

A micron filter IS necessary for shooting pills. I don't have generic Subutex so I don't have to filter out all that nasty cut, so I can't say what would work on the pills. Why can't you get brand name?

Then I draw up the crystal clear liquid with no filter, i use a stainless steel Leur-Lok 7" long needle, 12 Guage maybe, for spinal taps obviously. But it's long enough to get all the liquid and then I just fill up some 10mL Injection Vials after putting a new 23 or 25 G needle on the Syringe. I usually recover 14.8-14.9CC on the syringe chanber. After siphoning off the liquid you can literally turn the test tube upside down and the white filler crap stays put untill you soak and dislodge it when cleaning up.

Talc will dissolve in water clearly, and so will other inactive ingredients. Just because a solution is clear doesn't mean you successfully got out all the inactive ingredients without filtering, that's a horrible and possibly dangerous assumption to make.

No offense but you made a lot of incorrect statements in your post. Try reading up on micron filtering around here for a while.

I think what you should do if you're really going to want to shoot generic Subutex, you'll want to pre-filter with cotton, then use a 0.45 (or larger - I don't know how many different sizes of filters you have nor what would be necessary with this pill) micron filter, then a 0.2 micron filter. Pre-filtering with cotton is essential if the product clogs the micron filter before you can get most of the solution through it. I find whatson PVDF 0.2 micron filters by themselves work fine on the brand name pills.

I never understood either why Suboxone dissolves so slowly sublingually compared with traditional sublingual wafers... It seems like it's impossible to not swallow some when it takes forever to dissolve.

I would add some high proof alcohol underneath your tongue to help the pill dissolve and to increase BA if you find holding the tablet underneath your tongue by itself is a problematically long process.

Captian - you are referring to shooting the bupe?

Have you ever shot oxy?

I'm curious the effects that you get from shooting your bupe

I have IV'd oxycodone once.

It would be hard to compare buprenorphine to any other short acting opiate.

IV oxy has a very short lived rush which is pleasant (people say it doesn't have a rush which may be true for ppl with a high opiate tolerance, but I certainly got a massive rush and so did two other people I was doing this with), but it dies down a lot quicker than any other opiate I have used. Oral would have been a better, longer lived ROA with a higher dosage but I didn't care to be on oxycodone for longer than an hour or two as I don't use opiates often at all anymore (other than buprenorphine). When I tried oxy I had 15mg and it was a nice dose. It was over by 1 and a half to two hours.

When I tried dilaudid, I only had 1mg and it was all I needed. Wonderful rush (better than the OC though equipotent wise, 15mg of oxy IV is more than just 1mg dilaudid IV) and it lasted 3-4 hours. It came in waves like the oxy but the waves were longer lasting and didn't die down so quickly.

When I IV buprenorphine, it's not an instant onset - which leaves a lot of people confused and bewildered. If you're looking for an instant 7 second to peak effects like a shot of cocaine, ketamine, or heroin...you're not going to get that here. However after 2 to 5 minutes after IVing 0.16mg of buprenorphine (yes, only 160mcg) I feel the onset begin for sure and within another 10 minutes I have begun peaking. It's not like a OC high at all...it's hard to describe it. Some ppl say it feels "fake" or "synthetic" for example. I really like it though. It can be very stimulating but also has a great classic body high and there is a solid rush for people with no - little opiate tolerance.

It's really hard to describe the IV bupe experience. People can describe shooting heroin or dilaudid like "a warm blanket" or "blissful", etc. IV buprenorphine is not going to be like a heroin high for many people however some actually DO prefer it to heroin! If I was trying to "just get high" I obviously would use heroin but buprenorphine gives me more than just "Getting high" effects if that makes any sense. Buprenorphine is a great drug for just about anything (it is great for feeling anxious or down/depressed) and also can keep me focused and alert when otherwise I wouldn't be.

IV buprenorphine has somewhat similar effects to OC when you look at the stimulating effects, but it's very different in the same way.

When I first started IVing buprenorphine I was just getting "instantly not sick anymore" - and then after a while (after I started tapering to a lower dose) I would get really really high and a rush out of shooting bupe. I also noticed each time I would lower my IV dose I would get higher after I would adjust to the lower dose (makes sense with up/down-regulation theories and such).

Hope that at least addressed your question - I'm sure it didn't answer it at all.

I have a friend who likes to shoot dilaudid and OC a lot and I let them try bupe once. I think I gave them 1mg, maybe less? Anyways they really liked it - they didn't get like a rush or high off of it but they said they liked the effects and it was kinda pleasant. They didn't give me a lot to work with in terms of what they thought of it but I could tell if they didn't have OC or dilaudid and they wanted "something" and they had Suboxone they would definitely IV it for sure.

when i iv sub i don't really feel it as well as a sublingual or insufflated dose. has this been anyone's experience? do you know why this is?

I experienced this at first, but I kept IVing it mostly because back in the day I would puke daily as a result of sublingually using Suboxone, sometimes before the tablet was dissolved. That would be rather frustrating and I didn't have enough Suboxone prescribed to puke up as much of it as I needed to stick with the sublingual route strictly.

The reason is your opiate tolerance - if you have a moderate/high opiate tolerance, IV buprenorphine will just relieve WD symptoms and not give you a high or a rush like I'm talking about. That's mostly due to the up-regulation of your opiate receptors, and to environmental and biochemical tolerance.

If you stick with sublingual (or any ROA) but keep tapering lower and lower as you keep going along, eventually you may notice you're getting high and then a rush off of your dose. This is what happened to me. I know others through BL who say they have never/will never get a high from buprenorphine.

If you aren't getting the good effects of IV buprenorphine, save IVing it for later when your opiate tolerance has gone down. The key to IV buprenorphine is small doses really.

I hope that helped.

 

[benway m.d.]

If you stick with sublingual (or any ROA) but keep tapering lower and lower as you keep going along, eventually you may notice you're getting high and then a rush off of your dose. This is what happened to me. I know others through BL who say they have never/will never get a high from buprenorphine.

I take around 4-8 mgs, depending on the day. I usually feel a high of sorts when I take it sublingually. For some reason, however, I don't feel the sub as much when I IV, like I would sublingually. That's not to say I don't feel it at all, it's just not as intense as another ROA. You are suggesting that if I taper down my dose, I may feel the sub when I IV it as a result of a lowered tolerance. What I can't understand is how I feel less with IV, mutatis mutandis. Especially since the BA is higher as well as the onset.

 

[thugpassion]

I take about 160mcg at a time now, and I hope to taper down even lower (I just got down there from 166.6...mcg).

Thats a real small decrease, that must be mere dust.

 

[thugpassion]

BTW, a filter is unnecessary for substance with varying solubility levels I pour my solution (making sure is at max viscosity) into a test tube and seal the cap and toos that baby in the centrifuge for 5 minutes min. When I remove the tube, it's just Crystal clear liquid with what looks like a white chunch it's packed so hard to the bottome of the tupe. Then I draw up the crystal clear liquid with no filter, i use a stainless steel Leur-Lok 7" long needle, 12 Guage maybe, for spinal taps obviously. But it's long enough to get all the liquid and then I just fill up some 10mL Injection Vials after putting a new 23 or 25 G needle on the Syringe. I usually recover 14.8-14.9CC on the syringe chanber. After siphoning off the liquid you can literally turn the test tube upside down and the white filler crap stays put untill you soak and dislodge it when cleaning up.

That method of prep sounds crazy fuckin awesome, I wish I had a "centerfuge".....WTF

 

[dopiate]

haha, filtering is unnecessary when you have a centrifuge.

And a girlfriend is unnecessary when you can suck your own dick.

CH: I understand you wait about 4-6 hours between bupe doses? What do you feel in the time coming up to your next dose? I dose every 4 hours, 0.2-0.25mg and it takes about 5-10 minutes to feel my dose, i feel good (read: high) for ~2 hours then normal for about an hour and then sometimes i can actually start to feel withdrawal symptoms when i get close to my next dose.

My withdrawals always start with a general laziness and then yawning. I feel like this might be all psychological since i know my next dose is coming. Although when i wake up in the morning, ~12 hrs since last dose, i definitely yawn a ton, feel restless.

We're kind of in the same situation so i just wanted to see how you are affected.

P.S. i was able to lower my doseage so i'll be able to make it through the break without running out

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I take around 4-8 mgs, depending on the day. I usually feel a high of sorts when I take it sublingually. For some reason, however, I don't feel the sub as much when I IV, like I would sublingually. That's not to say I don't feel it at all, it's just not as intense as another ROA. You are suggesting that if I taper down my dose, I may feel the sub when I IV it as a result of a lowered tolerance. What I can't understand is how I feel less with IV, mutatis mutandis. Especially since the BA is higher as well as the onset.

4 to 8mg is a moderate to a high tolerance for opiates. I have always been somewhat sensitive to opiates so to me it's a high tolerance, for someone with less opiate sensitivity, 4mg might be a low/moderate dose and 8mg a moderate dose.

If you can use it sublingually (or any other ROA) at 4 to 8mg per day, and then taper down to 2mg at the most per day within a few weeks/months (it took me months to get down to that dose and for my opiate tolerance to go back down - don't be surprised if it doesn't work for you overnight), then you may be able to get much higher off of an IV dose.

The reason why you'll feel a lower IV dose much better is due to 1) the lowered opiate tolerance yes, but it's also due to 2) down regulation of mu-opioid receptors (as your tolerance/usage drops), and 3) the metabolite of buprenorphine, norbuprenorphine. Norbuprenorphine is a better mu-agonist and gives a much better high. The lower doses of buprenorphine give your mu-opioid receptors more room to feel the nor-buprenorphine, hence a better high.

Finally, too much buprenorphine (at least for me and other people) can be a very unpleasant experience. Hence why it's futile to shoot Suboxone with a high opiate tolerance, for these several reasons and probably more.

I don't know what "mutatis mutandis" means at all, but it is true - I didn't get a whole lot out of IVing bupe until I started taking less and less often. A higher BA plus quicker onset can help some drugs but with buprenorphine, BA is relative to dose (like snorting 1mg is like sublingual 2mg for example, those #'s aren't exact), so the higher BA doesn't help you get "higher" in a sense, it just helps you get the most out of the active ingredient and conserve what you go through. And while the action of buprenorphine is basically instant, the high isn't because it stems mostly from nor-buprenorphine (buprenorphine itself can deliver the high but it takes a few minutes for IV buprenorphine to really take effect).

I hope this makes sense. If you want to explain what "mutatis mutandis" means please let me know. I'm just not good with foreign languages like Latin (I am guessing that the phrase is in Latin, though I'm not 100% sure).

Thats a real small decrease, that must be mere dust.

Yes, you're right. Except it's in liquid form so it's not dust exactly.

Buprenorphine is an exceedingly potent drug.

haha, filtering is unnecessary when you have a centrifuge.

Does a centrifuge remove bacteria?

And a girlfriend is unnecessary when you can suck your own dick.

*lol* I don't personally think so but that's just me. I think you put it in a really funny way though.

CH: I understand you wait about 4-6 hours between bupe doses? What do you feel in the time coming up to your next dose? I dose every 4 hours, 0.2-0.25mg and it takes about 5-10 minutes to feel my dose, i feel good (read: high) for ~2 hours then normal for about an hour and then sometimes i can actually start to feel withdrawal symptoms when i get close to my next dose.

Sometimes it's more like 3-4 hours depending on how busy I am, though it can be as long as double digit numbers depending on what I'm stuck doing.

When I take 0.16mg (160mcg) it takes me 5-10 minutes for it to kick in (as you said) and as it kicks in I feel good (high and a rush) for 2 to 4 hours (sometimes longer but rarely to be honest). I've run out of WD symptoms to feel other than yawning, runny nose/eyes, and tiredness (along with some frustratedness at times, most of the time I'm doing good though with just very light, mild WD symptoms at best). Sometimes I don't get to WD symptoms before redosing, other times I've been waiting for a while till I dose.

My withdrawals always start with a general laziness and then yawning. I feel like this might be all psychological since i know my next dose is coming. Although when i wake up in the morning, ~12 hrs since last dose, i definitely yawn a ton, feel restless.

We're kind of in the same situation so i just wanted to see how you are affected.

P.S. i was able to lower my doseage so i'll be able to make it through the break without running out

I used to get the "general laziness" but I don't think I get that anymore (at least if I do, it's to a lighter degree than I once had). Definitely lots of yawning here too. I'm afraid it's not psychological. (I wish) I think it's physical WD symptoms but I might be wrong? I'm not sure exactly.

When I wake up in the morning it's a hit or miss...sometimes I am feeling 110% fine/not opiate dependent, other times I have the same mild WD symptoms you do.

And congrats on making it through the break man. :D

 

[tiimmmmmyyy]

I also found the taste to be offensive. I have heard of some people who take a spoonful of honey along with it, something that never sounded much better.

I'm curious about the poster who started at 32mg.....did the doc offer any explanation? There is quite a range of approaches to dosing: some are extremely tight, and have self-imposed "limits" on what they will offer. Others (like yours) swing in the opposite direction. I have a high tolerance, and am a "fast metabolizer" to boot, and I started at 16mg, stayed there close to a year, then went up to 24. Now I am taking 12. I hope it works out for you, and hope that you discuss your dose with your doc. I would take advice telling you to switch doses on your own with a grain of salt.

I lowered my dose from the 32 mg to 8 mg. The doctor offered no explanation as to why the dose is so high (I did not know at the time the dose was high). I am a biochem major so our discussion was just neurochemical bullshit about suboxone. He seemed to know his shit. He put me on 32 mg for a fuckin MONTH. I took these people's advice and lowered my dose to the 8 mg. This is the second day (about 40 hours) and I'm about to go to sleep on this second night. I feel no WD symptoms at this dose, and this really makes me not trust my doctor. I plan to tell him in 3 weeks during my next appointment that I just tapered down or make up some bull shit. I can't have him thinking I'm undermining his 'authority' and 'expertise.' It took me forever to get him to accept me for the bupe.
Let me know your thoughts. I am not proofreading this; I'm too tired, so fuck the grammar.

 

[tiimmmmmyyy]

How long do Sub w/d symptoms last? I have been taking 8 mg about every 3-5 days, and I am fine until about the 3rd day when I seem to have increased yawning, a very mild runny nose, mild insomnia, and mild body aches. I can't tell if these are legitimate withdrawals or just psychosomatic. Anwyay, I'm ready to get off this shit permanently and even if these are withdrawals, I can handle it, but I want to know approximately how long they will last so I can prepare myself.

These opiates with long half lives may have withdrawal symptoms that last weeks. It depends on how long you have been taking the Sub in this way. We'd need more info, but expect two - three weeks for physical symptoms if you've been taking the suboxone for a long time. I find it curious that you take it so infrequently though. That could only help your withdrawal symptoms and period of malaise.