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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

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Im not trying to be dramatic but if you can, find another doc. Prescrbing that much bupe indicates zero actual knowledge of how the drug works. I honestly believe nobody needs more than 8mg and the majority needing less than 4mg. I have been on bup for 3 years and taken between 1mg and 32mg daily.

Anywhere upwards of 12mg made me feel horrible. And in my opininion and those of many others, the beauty of bupe is in the <2mg range. I bet you could easily take 8mg and be fine. Get rid of your quack doc.
 
Hmmm 12 days till school starts. Im thinking I will withdraw off the methadone using doses of suboxone and alprazolam. I dont like the idea of a suboxone crutch. Wise?
 
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dopiate said:
Im not trying to be dramatic but if you can, find another doc. Prescrbing that much bupe indicates zero actual knowledge of how the drug works. I honestly believe nobody needs more than 8mg and the majority needing less than 4mg. I have been on bup for 3 years and taken between 1mg and 32mg daily.

Anywhere upwards of 12mg made me feel horrible. And in my opininion and those of many others, the beauty of bupe is in the <2mg range. I bet you could easily take 8mg and be fine. Get rid of your quack doc.
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Beautifully worded post! I agree 100% with your description of the dosing. Also, 32mg for 60mg methadone is ridiculous IMO.

As for getting a new doctor... I honestly believe most doctors don't know much about Suboxone. If timmy can get a lower dose from this doctor, it might not realistically be that different from the average doctor prescribing Suboxone experience in the USA.
 
Hey guys, long time no see~
This month marks 9 months on suboxone, and in 5 days i plan on fully jumping off the ship. I'm going to get down to a .5mg tolerance and jump ship. I have 30 clonodine and expect the ride to be uncomfortable, but not entirely painful. Any tips?
 
PillPoppingAnimal said:
dont abuse suboxone...

i mean, experience it... but if ur really traking 80mg to get high than ur one of those people who have just a natural tolerance to opies.. so maybe u wont get high, but u could get the physical effects...

my friend blew 1/8 of a pill (no tolerence to opies), and was barfing ALLLL day
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My god you people don't know how lucky you are.

You have been on an "80mg" a day Oxy binge - all I can do is LOL or almost cry.

I am taking 160mg Oxycontin and 200mg Morphine IR per day now for two days and have the most terrible chills insomnia aches you wouldn't believe.

I am keeping myself from the full bore throwing up fever ultra high blood pressure extreme diarrhea.

But people talking about 80mg/ a day binges my GOD what I would not do for a single simple 80mg a day OXY tolerance.

It is going to take me a month of constant withdrawal to just taper down to like 100mg morphine and 80mg oxycontin.
 
getting back on bupe so I don't look like a dope fiend?

Foul Play said:
In my honest opinion, you could probably jump back onto bupe without any interactions. I've done it a handfull of times over the last few years, without waiting untill i was in a good amount of w/d. Keep in mind tho, that everyone's chemistry is different. I've gone thru more than my share of precipitated withdrawal, but I've never gotten it from using 1 shot and getting back on track, only if i've been using for a few days or more.

I do suggest waiting at least 12 hours. In an ideal world you would wait untill you know you're ok to take it.. but I know the feeling of wanting to get back to normal.

And to using Sub's to counter an overdose, no it won't work. It won't work for the same reason why Sub's won't put you into pwd when injected.. it has a higher affinity compared to naloxone.
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All right thanks. I shot 3 bags last night/ this morning, the last one at 3AM. Now I woke up and my pupils are still pinpoint and I look like I'm still high or maybe coming down on heroin (very pale skin, droopy eyes, a little shaky). I am seeing some friends later and one of them is also a recovering addict like me on bupe and if they saw me like this they would know I had used something.

So I really want to take suboxone before I see them in the hopes that it will make me look much more normal so I'm not in withdrawal and my eyes look fine. So if I take it this afternoon around 3 (12 hours later) will I be fine and will it make me look normal again? My thinking is tha if I take bupe starting at very tiny oses to be careful and continue upping it until I feel and look good it will knock any lingering heron off my receptors and replace it with bupe due to the higher affinity. I just don't know what that would feel like, it doesn't seem like it would put me in full precipitated withdrawal since when I started suboxone I had 20 hours clean on a 15 bag a day habit, but I was still in WD with big pupils feeling shitty.

So what does precipitated withdrawal feel like? In case I get it even to a tiny degreeI want to know what to expect. Why does it make people so sick if they take it while still having opiates in their system since in theory the bupe knocks everything off your receptors and plants itself there, so you would still be getting agonist and antagonist effects... Is it the shock of that happening that makes you sick?

I was at a low does of suboxone (the last I had was 1mg IVed 24 hours before using last night) which was why I was able to get high. Now I want to take my bupe today so I look and feel better so no one would be able to tell by looking at me anything was dramatically different.

Sorry for the long post, I would appreciate any insights or first hand experience with this. I woke up and seriously considered shooting another bag but I had the willpower to stop myself, so I hope this is a good sign I can get back on a clean track and not into a full blown relapse.
 
Oxymorphone said:
All right thanks. I shot 3 bags last night/ this morning, the last one at 3AM. Now I woke up and my pupils are still pinpoint and I look like I'm still high or maybe coming down on heroin (very pale skin, droopy eyes, a little shaky). I am seeing some friends later and one of them is also a recovering addict like me on bupe and if they saw me like this they would know I had used something.

So I really want to take suboxone before I see them in the hopes that it will make me look much more normal so I'm not in withdrawal and my eyes look fine. So if I take it this afternoon around 3 (12 hours later) will I be fine and will it make me look normal again? My thinking is tha if I take bupe starting at very tiny oses to be careful and continue upping it until I feel and look good it will knock any lingering heron off my receptors and replace it with bupe due to the higher affinity. I just don't know what that would feel like, it doesn't seem like it would put me in full precipitated withdrawal since when I started suboxone I had 20 hours clean on a 15 bag a day habit, but I was still in WD with big pupils feeling shitty.

So what does precipitated withdrawal feel like? In case I get it even to a tiny degreeI want to know what to expect. Why does it make people so sick if they take it while still having opiates in their system since in theory the bupe knocks everything off your receptors and plants itself there, so you would still be getting agonist and antagonist effects... Is it the shock of that happening that makes you sick?

I was at a low does of suboxone (the last I had was 1mg IVed 24 hours before using last night) which was why I was able to get high. Now I want to take my bupe today so I look and feel better so no one would be able to tell by looking at me anything was dramatically different.

Sorry for the long post, I would appreciate any insights or first hand experience with this. I woke up and seriously considered shooting another bag but I had the willpower to stop myself, so I hope this is a good sign I can get back on a clean track and not into a full blown relapse.
Click to expand...

It depends on your situation. If its been less than 24 hours since you last took bupe than i would say there is an ok chance that you won't feel precip w/d as you will most likely still have some bupe left on receptors.

I've never had precip w/d explained in good enough detail to be confident but i always pictured it as heroin being kicked off by bupe and it then takes an amount of time (~1 hour) for the bupe to attach itself again. Theres a good chance this is incorrect or layman but its what i've got.

And as far as looking like a junkie, i'm pretty sure bupe won't help you much there. I dont' know, take a shower or something.
 
dopiate said:
It depends on your situation. If its been less than 24 hours since you last took bupe than i would say there is an ok chance that you won't feel precip w/d as you will most likely still have some bupe left on receptors.

I've never had precip w/d explained in good enough detail to be confident but i always pictured it as heroin being kicked off by bupe and it then takes an amount of time (~1 hour) for the bupe to attach itself again. Theres a good chance this is incorrect or layman but its what i've got.

And as far as looking like a junkie, i'm pretty sure bupe won't help you much there. I dont' know, take a shower or something.
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At 1pm I took like .3mg sublingual, felt fine, took another .5, then over the course of an hour and a half dosed up to 2.5mg sublingual. No precipated WD and I fealt better after taking the final .5mg. I lookk and feel like normal and it is as if nothing ever happened. Plus I got a UA kit and tested the urine I saved (so I would test positive for benzos and bupe but nothing else) and wasn't sure if it would work but it does and it passes the control tests. For some reason I showed up positive for try-cyclic anti-depressants. I have no idea why. But I'm all set when I get tested today when I get tested at the bupe clinic when I see my doctor.

So that's pretty awesome to be able to do heroin one night and get back on bupe the next day without feeling sick. I don't plan to make a habit of it it i just nice to know I can. It's probably not good that I mention this for other people on maintenance but it is interesting to note- it wouldn't work if you were on over 6mg of bupe a day though, i was able to get high since I was at 1-3 and I think that's also why I was able to hop back on bupe in under 10 hours while I still had pinpoint pupils and looked like a dope fiend.`
 
I really like this forum; I'm surprised I never came across it in my years of drug abuse.

In regards to my doctor prescribing me 32 mg/day suboxone, I think I'll try to just take 8mg/day and see if I get any withdrawals. If so, I'll take another 4mg or something. I knew 32 mg seemed ridiculous... and he told me he was the lead of addiction medicine for a large medical firm in southern California.

You guys obviously have a lot of experience with this. What would you estimate a person with a 4 bag/day habit to 60-80mg methadone/day for 2 months to suboxone be at for a starting dose?

Added:
Side effects... worse constipation than methadone or not? I am happy to see that it does not cause that dysphoric irritable high that methadone gave me. Of course those feelings are subjective to my experience with methadone, and I still loved those feelings at the time haha.

Thanks
 
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^Possibly 4-8mg bupe for that much methadone, but closer to 6mg IME. I did about 2mg bupe when switching over from about 25-30mg methadone, which worked really well for me, but some people do require a little more. I'd start around 6mg and increase if necessary.

Less constipation and overall side effects with bupe as well IME.
 
Hey, Timmy....glad you are here. Often, docs will start you on a high dose because they want to have your withdrawals/cravings knocked out as fast as possible. If you are just starting out, I would say to follow the directions and see how things go. It is much easier to start out high, and to gradually taper (if needed) to see how you do. With methadone, it is done the opposite way which can be more painful (starting low and gradually raising until negative symptoms are gone). I don't know your history, but the doc must have prescribed 32mg for a reason. Ask him/her.
 
^I don't think "he must have had a good reason" is sufficient here. Those of us who have used the drug to successfully taper off opiates know that clearly, 32mg is a good 5x higher than the dose needed to maintain in this example. Also, 32mg is really unpleasant for many people and takes forever to taper off.

Dopiate's post summed it up really nicely:
dopiate said:
I honestly believe nobody needs more than 8mg and the majority needing less than 4mg. I have been on bup for 3 years and taken between 1mg and 32mg daily.

Anywhere upwards of 12mg made me feel horrible. And in my opininion and those of many others, the beauty of bupe is in the <2mg range. I bet you could easily take 8mg and be fine.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I took 8 mg today and it's 5:12 PM, and I feel "normal." All these drugs have long halflives so it'll probably take a few days to determine if 8 mg will be sufficient(since the two days previous I took 40 mg). How I sleep will be the true test. Any more advice or expertise will be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks again.
 
PinK~cloud said:
Hey guys, long time no see~
This month marks 9 months on suboxone, and in 5 days i plan on fully jumping off the ship. I'm going to get down to a .5mg tolerance and jump ship. I have 30 clonodine and expect the ride to be uncomfortable, but not entirely painful. Any tips?
Click to expand...

You can easily go lower than 0.5mg, or you can dose every other day if you can wait that long. It's best to get to the lowest dose possible before jumping off. I only take 800mcg per day (0.8mg), and I still would find it very difficult to cessate completely (though not impossible).
 
^Agreed, I went down to 0.2mg every other day before dropping off completely.
 
My plan to taper lower

BollWeevil said:
^Agreed, I went down to 0.2mg every other day before dropping off completely.
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I take about 160mcg at a time now, and I hope to taper down even lower (I just got down there from 166.6...mcg).

I'm going to post my plans to continue tapering lower. I might revise this as I think my solution might last me longer than expected though it's hard to anticipate.

mg | mL = mg/mL
10 unit dose = mcg (1000 mcg to 1mg)

24mg | 15mL = 1.6mg/mL
10 unit dose = 160mcg

22mg | 14.666...mL = 1.5mg/mL
10 unit dose = 150mcg

20mg | 15mL = 1.333...mg/mL
10 unit dose = 133mcg

20mg | 16mL = 1.25mg/mL
10 unit dose = 125mcg

20mg | 16.666...mL = 1.2mg/mL
10 unit dose = 120mcg

20mg | 18mL = 1.111...mg/mL
10 unit dose = 111mcg

20mg | 19mL = 1.05mg/mL
10 unit dose = 105mcg

16mg | 16mL = 1mg/mL
10 unit dose = 100mcg

16mg | 18mL = 0.888mg/mL
10 unit dose = 88mcg

14mg | 18mL = 0.777mg/mL
10 unit dose = 77mcg

12mg | 18mL = 0.666mg/mL
10 unit dose = 66mcg

10mg | 16mL = 0.625mg/mL
10 unit dose = 62mcg

8mg | 14mL = 0.571mg/mL
10 unit dose = 57mcg

8mg | 15mL = 0.533mg/mL
10 unit dose = 53mcg

8mg | 16mL = 0.5mg/mL
10 unit dose = 50mcg

8mg | 17mL = 0.47mg/mL
10 unit dose = 47mcg

8mg | 18mL = 0.444mg/mL
10 unit dose = 44mcg

6mg | 14mL = 0.428mg/mL
10 unit dose = 42mcg

6mg | 15mL = 0.4mg/mL
10 unit dose = 40mcg

6mg | 16mL = 0.375mg/mL
10 unit dose = 37mcg

6mg | 17mL = 0.352mg/mL
10 unit dose = 35mcg

4mg | 12mL = 0.333mg/mL
10 unit dose = 33mcg

4mg | 13.333mL = 0.3mg/mL
10 unit dose = 30mcg

4mg | 15mL = 0.266mg/mL
10 unit dose = 26mcg

4mg | 16mL = 0.25mg/mL
10 unit dose = 25mcg

4mg | 18mL = 0.222mg/mL
10 unit dose = 22mcg

2mg | 10mL = 0.2mg/mL
10 unit dose = 20mcg
 
Wow that is quite the subtle taper schedule, one day per dose or each one for a few days? Do you plan to use it recreationally once you stop?
 
Oxymorphone said:
Wow that is quite the subtle taper schedule, one day per dose or each one for a few days? Do you plan to use it recreationally once you stop?
Click to expand...

Though I may skip a step here and there as I feel comfortable, assuming I use each step, I am planning each step to take roughly 2 weeks. Considering I go through 40 to 60 units per day (for 2 people that's 80 to 120 units per day), 14mL will last 2 weeks. As you can see each step will have different mL, hence the more mL the longer each step will last. IE,

10mL = 1 and a half weeks
14mL = 2 weeks
18mL = 2 and a half weeks

Each step will reduce the following # of mcg's:

10
7
8
5
9
6
5
12
11
11
4
5
4
3
3
3
2
2
3
2
2
3
4
1
3
2

As you can see it's slightly uneven, and in the beginning it tapers quickly, then a bit less quickly, more quickly, and then eventually slows down a lot.

In between the two sets of double digit numbers, the one digit numbers give me about 1 to 2 months to "adjust" to the sudden taper (I've been taking a long time to gently stabilize myself to the dose I'm at already, and using < 1mg/day is still an iffy idea in my mind though I know it'll be just as good as it is now, since I used to go through a lot more than I do now!), and then as I get < 70 mcg's per dose, I slow down the taper a lot mostly because I think that's where I'll need the longest time to adjust, plus there's no hurry to completely get off of it completely.
 
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